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[Smiles and Cries]

Did all the people getting hot and bothered even read his full quote? It's very circumspect, and not controversial at all. He doesn't insult VR, he states the company has had an ongoing interest in it, cites cost, tech and console philosophy as potential concerns at present, and says there are specific venues that he feels it's appropriate for. So exactly which part of this milquetoast off the cuff response are people up in arms about?

you can blame the thread title for that. most people want to just react instead of reading the OP, they feel insulted

yet the perspective is not off, VR does isolate you for the sake of immersion
maybe Miyamoto could have explained the isolation in a better way as not to cause rage from people thinking he said VR is for lonely basement dwelling geeks <-- this image is what I think caused the fast reactions in the first few pages. I doubt they took the time to read or even think about what he is saying

 

[Kurdel]

Being isolated in a virtual environment for hours on end is something I just don't want. VR is fun for a few minutes, but I am wary of the effects of playing with it for extended periods.

Those are legit concerns.

From the demos and games I have tried on the Rift, I felt the main limiter for long play sessions was the shitty hardware, not psychological concerns of the effects of isolation.

If it wasn't for the nausea, I would have played Half Life 2. Despite the low resolution, seeing City 17 with what felt like my own eyes was amazing and gave me the biggest nerd chills.

I know a lot of gamers will feel he same way I did, and that is why I am sure it will be much, much bigger than Kinect. The only thing that needs to be right is the hardware.

But you're wrong.

About?

 

[SargerusBR]

Nintendo sure knows much about VR:

 

[Ether_Snake]

Miyamoto has brought much joy to me and I have enormous respect for him.

There are two possibilities:

1- He is emphasizing whatever shortcomings of the technology, no matter how minor, because he works for Nintendo and Nintendo don't have VR. Just good old marketing there and his words should not be taken seriously.

2-He is only speaking about VR in the short term, in which case he is absolutely right that it's a one-player thing. It requires a lot of power to achieve presence afterall, and who's gonna have two beefy PCs or two PS4s for multiplayer? Almost no one.

Or, #3: he's wrong.

A single player game isolates people. VR is inherently more likely to bring about more multi-user experiences.

 

[Stimpack]

...

Wow! That's really something. Really trying to earn that tag, huh?

 

[TIMtationX]

People comparing VR to 3D have never tried VR.

 

[Zeuanimals]

I still have the ability to hear something when I'm sleeping, there are many light sleepers. A better rebuttal to what I said would have been to tell me to keep my headphones slightly off my ears.

Sucks for heavy sleepers then.

How many murders by guns are there in a year where you live? I live in a crappy and "dangerous" city that gets crap for being a crappy and dangerous city to live in and there was about 60 murders last year, but there's about 300,000 people total. Now let's just say all of those people were murdered in their homes with guns, that's 0.0002 percent of the population, and I have about that much of a chance of dying by a gun in my own home. Would that percentage increase if people were using VR? Maybe, but it won't be anything huge.

If you really think the chances of someone pointing a gun at your face is higher than normal, then I think you should move, you need to find a better crowd to hang out with, you need to stop cheating on your significant other, you need to tell the thug life to leave you alone and choose someone else, or you should get facial reconstruction and change your name because your life as a James Bond is catching up to you.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

If it wasn't for the nausea, I would have played Half Life 2. Despite the low resolution, seeing City 17 with what felt like my own eyes was amazing and gave me the biggest nerd chills.

For all the things you can configure in the console of a Source-engine game, I wonder why you couldnt lower the walking speed. When I was experiencing City 17 in OR, I felt like Flash. Gordon was running with like 50km/h.

 

[Prototype]

come on Miyamoto,

this can be tons of fun, social interaction isn't everything!

 

[vagabondarts]

With the way they design their gamepad multiplayer games I'm surprised they don't see the potential for simultaneous gaming experiences everyone can play together. one player wears the VR glasses while the others watch from a different angle on tv or play other roles in the game.

 

[Night Angel]

Isn't Wii U one person playing on the system's only tablet?

I thought this exactly when I read the title.

 

[Nanashrew]

Wall o' Text.

https://twitter.com/NeoGAFShitPosts/status/479467799556157441


Oh my lord. I'm not a big fan of VR either, but oh my lord.

 

[Daingurse]

I'm an introvert, works for me. Just becoming fully immersed in the atmosphere of the game, sounds pretty appealing. I don't need my gaming experiences to be social.

 

[Nemecyst]

Just so I know, is the thread title the only thing to focus on or is the entire article important?

 

[Zeuanimals]

As I said in a previous post, I have tried VR before. Specifically at an arcade in Circus-Circus (just before they closed it). It was a pretty "immersive" (I hate how people use that word) experience, and I genuinely felt present within the virtual world. However, it wasn't the type of thing I would want to experience everyday- like I do with regular games. Even with that short experience with VR, it took me a few seconds to return to reality, because I had previously been present in an alternate one (rendered in flat-shaded Super FX style polygons). I can't image being in a VR state for hours an then being able to just jump in the car and go to the store or something. I've noticed I've had problems just playing regular games for hours and re-aclimating to social situations. Being isolated in a virtual environment for hours on end is something I just don't want. VR is fun for a few minutes, but I am wary of the effects of playing with it for extended periods.

Fox News is also gonna have a field day with VR when it gets bigger.

We're already getting "Call of Duty teaches kids how to use weapons and to murder", we're gonna get "Call of Duty VR really teaches kids how to use weapons and to murder, and because it's so immersive, they can develop schizophrenia and other schizo types of disorders", which I can actually see happening and it might be the first negative thing that they'd be correct about in regards to video games.

I think some people might get super addicted to VR, we already get that with regular games, but those cases are likely gonna be out of the ordinary, but much more frequent than regular game addiction. Some people already have schizo disorders surfacing and VR would probably be the worst thing for them since it might be able to further distort their view of reality and it can make them even more recluse since they'd want nothing more than to be in their VR worlds.

I have no psychology credentials so this can all be wrong, but I'm sure there will be some people that are affected very negatively by VR, or rather allow VR to affect themselves negatively.

 

[astrogamer]

Just so I know, is the thread title the only thing to focus on or is the entire article important?

Well if you want to be like the rest of Gaf, feel free to jump to conclusions from the thread title, otherwise take time to read the full interview on TIME

 

[Gleethor]

Nintendo sure knows much about VR:

You are surely the first person to have made this observation within this thread.

 

[TetraGenesis]

This thread... Oh god, this thread...

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

snip

This was awesome.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

Fox News is also gonna have a field day with VR when the it gets bigger.

We're already getting "Call of Duty teaches kids how to use weapons and murder", we're gonna get "Call of Duty VR really teaches kids how to use weapons and murder, and because it's so immersive, they can develop schizophrenia and other schizo types of disorders", which I can actually see happening and it might be the first negative thing that they'd be correct about in regards to video games.

I think some people might get super addicted to VR, we already get that with regular games, but those cases are likely gonna be out of the ordinary, but much more frequent than regular game addiction. Some people already have schizo disorders surfacing and VR would probably be the worst thing for them since it might be able to further distort their view of reality and it can make them even more recluse since they'd want nothing more than to be in their VR worlds.

I have no psychology credentials so this can all be wrong, but I'm sure there will be some people that are affected very negatively by VR, or rather allow VR to affect themselves negatively.

Thats one thing that will happen for sure. I mean there are people who are addicted to MMOs and with VR it will get even worse.

 

[Nanashrew]

Hey Miyamoto check this out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEZa2x1OukY
Presence.

Hey random GAFer check this out

So from Nintendo’s perspective, there’s interest in the technology, but we think it might be better suited to some sort of attraction style of entertainment, say something at a video game arcade or things like that, rather than something that one person plays alone.

He already realizes that there is a benefit to VR. It helps to read the full article.

I really like the idea of VR being in arcades. I remember back when I was a kid watching an episode of Batman Beyond and seeing 4 players match with VR helmets while there was a huge display screen showing everyone what's going in a spectator mode. That's far more social than I can ever think of with VR in the home.


This whole thread is weird though. Admittedly that one line is dumb and very harsh but there's far more context to it. Nintendo is not blind or deaf to the VR scene when they even tried it before. I imagine there is reluctance to get on it a second time since the Virtual Boy flopped. Nintendo's most likely waiting to see if there is an actual market available now, and if there's not, we probably won't see Virtual Boy 2.

My personal opinion is that VR is still not entirely ready, I'm not really that interested in it or the immersive points it has. The price point and actually getting the mass market is going to be the trickiest thing for an untested new product like the Oculus. Convincing the mass market to wear something on their heads for long periods when they even dislike wearing 3D glasses on their heads for long periods is going to be difficult. Attractions and something that brings in a lot of positivity and excitement could probably help break down some barriers at least.

 

[Nemecyst]

Well if you want to be like the rest of Gaf, feel free to jump to conclusions from the thread title, otherwise take time to read the full interview on TIME

Oh, I did. Was wondering if anyone else did, that's all. It's like Miyamoto went around punching people's babies or something.

 

[googleplex]

But you're wrong.

No he's absolutely right. Miyamoto isn't some sacred cow, whos above criticism. He's dead wrong on VR.

 

[Magician]

That’s in direct contrast with what it is we’re trying to achieve with Wii U.

Okay, so what's the philosophy? You say that you want to help people connect to one another, but there's little support for online play on the Wii U platform. I am confused Miyamoto, I understand that VR is in its early stages, but you should be able to easily see the larger picture where VR can help people connect to one another through the internet.

Being alone physically doesn't mean you are alone when players-- who have physical bodies somewhere on the planet are interacting with you through VR. However, I doubt my words will ever echo or reach Miyamoto for a response.

 

[gotoadgo]

Did all the people getting hot and bothered even read his full quote? It's very circumspect, and not controversial at all. He doesn't insult VR, he states the company has had an ongoing interest in it, cites cost, tech and console philosophy as potential concerns at present, and says there are specific venues that he feels it's appropriate for. So exactly which part of this milquetoast off the cuff response are people up in arms about?

My thoughts exactly. So many people in here are getting worked up over a minor comment due to an inflammatory thread title. It's as if the Nintendo haters have been holding it in the last couple of weeks due to all the love the Wii U has been getting and this is their outlet.

 

[FyreWulff]

Burying that Virtual Boy like Vince did WCW

 

[Sapphire Dreams]

Tell me, how much power did Miyamoto have back in the mid-90s to shitcan hardware development?

Powerful enough to influence the development of the N64 controller.

 

[PdotMichael]

God, some people are really defensive about the VR thing.

 

[THRILLH0]

I'm glad there are people who think like Miyamoto in the gaming industry.

I'm glad there are people who don't think like Miyamoto in the gaming industry.

 

[Serpens007]

You do know he does not mean it literally plus it was translated. Come on man.

Of course it's not literal, but what is inferred is that he thinks that VR is for someone who's antisocial. Just plays away from everything, even within his room.

Again, he could have just said "It is a device for people who like to play on their own". We can understand it more easly, with way less possible double-meanings.

Yeah, we can agree that he may not think that, but if that's the case, it was a very bad choice of words

 

[Hubble]

Nintendo continues to demonstrate they are antiquated and behind the times

 

[7DollarHagane]

No he's absolutely right. Miyamoto isn't some sacred cow, whos above criticism. He's dead wrong on VR.

Hes wrong that the kinds of games he wants to make right now don't seem to fit with vr technology? Or wrong to be interested in it?

What is wrong about his statements which are mostly about what Nintendo is focusing on and are not condemning or judging the technology?

 

[Chie Satonaka]

God, some people are really defensive about the VR thing.

I had no idea this was such a thing. I don't really pay attention to VR stuff because I'm not especially interested in the technology, but there are people in this thread who are taking what the man said personally.

Of course it's not literal, but what is inferred is that he thinks that VR is for someone who's antisocial. Just plays away from everything, even within his room.

There's not some stealth insult in here. The only reason you're taking that meaning is because that's what you're choosing to take from the quote.

Nintendo continues to demonstrate they are antiquated and behind the times

So the fact that he said that Nintendo is interested in VR doesn't mean anything, right?

This thread is like a car crash.

 

[Antagon]

Of course it's not literal, but what is inferred is that he thinks that VR is for someone who's antisocial. Just plays away from everything, even within his room.

Again, he could have just said "It is a device for people who like to play on their own". We can understand it more easly, with way less possible double-meanings.

Yeah, we can agree that he may not think that, but if that's the case, it was a very bad choice of words

But that's the case. You can have interaction online, but VR is not going to be a device that you use when there's a group of people around. And online interaction is not the same as face to face interaction. So how is he wrong?

It's the reason why i'm not really interested in VR, no matter how good the technology is. It doesn't bring me the experience I'm looking for. It's the same for online gaming btw, I love gaming with a group of friends in the house (which is sadly aomething that happens very rarely now), but online just isn't half as interesting to me.

 

[Sutanreyu]

Nintendo really loves that cave they're living in.

That's kinda backwards, considering what's said in the quote. It was said that the Wii U's goal is like... Reverse VR -- bringing the game to the player, not the player to the game... That way it can be shared with others instead of being a solo type deal...

 

[Chairmanchuck]

But that's the case. You can have interaction online, but VR is not going to be a device that you use when there's a group of people around. And online interaction is not the same as face to face interaction. So how is he wrong?

It's the reason why i'm not really interested in VR, no matter how good the technology is. It doesn't bring me the experience I'm looking for. It's the same for online gaming btw, I love gaming with a group of friends in the house (which is sadly aomething that happens very rarely now), but online just isn't half as interesting to me.

But with VR you can still do that, if VR-headsets will be cheap enough and games are centered around it.

 

[Alx]

Okay, so what's the philosophy? You say that you want to help people connect to one another, but there's little support for online play on the Wii U platform.

(...)

Being alone physically doesn't mean you are alone when players-- who have physical bodies somewhere on the planet are interacting with you through VR. However, I doubt my words will ever echo or reach Miyamoto for a response.

Online gaming is not the only way of social gaming. It's actually more the geeky vision of social gaming, when Nintendo's is still about people playing together in the same room. In many WiiU games, the gamepad is to be used by a second player on the couch : create platforms/open doors in Rayman or Mario, select songs in Just Dance... One of the funding concepts is "instead of having someone watch you play, let him/her participate".
And like I said earlier, online gaming isn't considered a social experience by people who live in a group. Even if you're playing with real people all around the world, you're still alone in front of your screen, ignoring your family (and all the more if your head is stuck in a VR helmet).

But with VR you can still do that, if VR-headsets will be cheap enough and games are centered around it.

Come on, do you imagine a party where everybody is wearing his own VR headset ? What would be the point of gathering if they don't even look at each other in the eyes, let's just stay at home and only connect through VR... If people call that social interaction, I'll be worried about the future of society.

 

[Magician]

That's kinda backwards, considering what's said in the quote. It was said that the Wii U's goal is like... Reverse VR -- bringing the game to the player, not the player to the game... That way it can be shared with others instead of being a solo type deal...

That's a valid point, but then it all depends on the perception of what someone has and defines interaction with other players at that point. Perhaps Nintendo's view is dated, or is not executed in a way to appease most of the posters at NeoGAF?

Online gaming is not the only way of social gaming. It's actually more the geeky vision of social gaming, when Nintendo's is still about people playing together in the same room. In many WiiU games, the gamepad is to be used by a second player on the couch : create platforms/open doors in Rayman or Mario, select songs in Just Dance... One of the funding concepts is "instead of having someone watch you play, let him/her participate".
And like I said earlier, online gaming isn't considered a social experience by people who live in a group. Even if you're playing with real people all around the world, you're still alone in front of your screen, ignoring your family (and all the more if your head is stuck in a VR helmet).

Well, we can only agree to disagree at that point. I believe, and I truly think that playing with real people from all over the world offers a great experience as playing with people physically next to you. I actually didn't want to sound that much fatalist in my earlier post, admittedly there are different ways to social interaction.

 

[Nags]

Metroid Prime VR needs to happen. Oh god that would glorious.

 

[SystemUser]

I understand what he's trying to say but it kind of sounds like sour grapes. Wii U isn't targeting the same demographic as occulus.

Yeah, after the Wii was shown a bunch of Microsoft executives statements about how Microsoft tried motion controls in the past and it was impossible to do. Now they have released a motion controller for the Xbox 360 and the motion controller for the Xbox One was mandatory until recently. Nintendo made similar statements about online play not vbnbeing right for Nintendo and now they release plenty of online games.


So this practically guarantees that the next Nintendo system will have VR.

 

[revolverjgw]

Why be uneasy about it being "the best way for people to play" anyway, it's not like Palmer set out to kill off local multiplayer once for all. It's just another new experience to embrace. I'm sure plenty of Nintendo players have shut themselves off in their room to play Zelda for hours in isolation, sometimes it's a wonderful way to experience a game, I remember doing it when I was 6. I'll do the same with Half Life 3 VR when I'm 36. Not every Nintendo gaming session is a riotous Mario Kart fiasco. That's not inherently better or worse than playing Mother 3 late at night by yourself under the covers, it's just different.

Yes I just confirmed HL3 to be a 2019 release, be there or be square

 

[Mango The Magician]

I do kinda agree with him, virtual reality does sorta build a wall between the player and people around him/her. His choice of words could of been better though.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

Come on, do you imagine a party where everybody is wearing his own VR headset ? What would be the point of gathering if they don't even look at each other in the eyes, let's just stay at home and only connect through VR... If people call that social interaction, I'll be worried about the future of society.

Since I am also used to Lan Parties, I can easily imagine that.

The same with when we play Smash Bros or MK locally. We still sit in front of a TV.
Besides some ideas here in the thread are great. You can also use asymetrical Gameplay with a VR Device.
Some friends could be some kind of gamemaster, the other friends could play as monsters and one friend is in VR "being" in the Game.

 

[Mindlog]

But that's the case. You can have interaction online, but VR is not going to be a device that you use when there's a group of people around.

Why not?

 

[Trigonometrize.]

I play single player games almost exclusively. I'm familiar with that corner.

 

[SystemUser]

come on Miyamoto,

this can be tons of fun, social interaction isn't everything!

That image is actually similar to the Gamecube's launch ad campaign. Most of the ads featured people trapped in a cube. The guy trapped in the cube alone in his dreary, dingy room in particular is very similar.

It's weird that NOA thought this was an acceptable ad campaign for the Gamecube, but now Miyamoto is painting the same picture as a negative.

 

[Alx]

Since I am also used to Lan Parties, I can easily imagine that.

I can see people doing LAN parties being fine with VR parties... you'll admit though that you are a very specific crowd. Even if I consider myself a big geek, with my collection of consoles, games and my addiction to Neogaf, I also consider LAN parties much too geeky for me.
Nintendo (and console manufacturers in general) are not really targeting that crowd, their audience is people playing their games on their TV in the living room, not people printing t-shirts with the name of their clan to attend tournaments.

The same with when we play Smash Bros or MK locally. We still sit in front of a TV.
Besides some ideas here in the thread are great. You can also use asymetrical Gameplay with a VR Device.
Some friends could be some kind of gamemaster, the other friends could play as monsters and one friend is in VR "being" in the Game.

The main difference is that VR gets in the way of social interaction. The "not ingame" part : looking at each other, slapping someone in the back, having a drink or grabbing popcorn... there's no way around it, VR is designed to cut the user from his immediate environment.

 

[thesolidshark]

Yeah, I'm glad I read the whole thing before responding. I'm almost at Miyamoto's level of not being too excited for VR with goggles and headsets. VR does seem like it will generally take immersion to the next level, possibly at the cost of your surroundings and attention. The Gamepad for me is not nearly the same.

I get the feeling Miyamoto looks forward to some of the advancements of VR, but would like it to come a certain way for him to want to work with it. I might've commented on a bit of Nintendo/Miyamoto bashing, but it seems more like more people not having read the full article, and for the company being "last-place" in terms of tech.

 

[Pikma]

No he's absolutely right. Miyamoto isn't some sacred cow, whos above criticism. He's dead wrong on VR.

 

[Cizeta-Moroder]

A bit harsh, but I don't really disagree. Maybe it just isn't (yet) suitable for what Nintendo is trying to achieve. There of course are ways to work around that. I personally am only interested in possible VR "arcades" where you could play with your friends. Household VR doesn't appeal to me at all, and frankly I am disgusted by people's aspiration for "immersion" in computer games. That said, any tech that improves games is welcome.