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Microsoft loses $126 one every Xbox360

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bud

Member
Microsoft's newest gaming console marks an improvement on the earlier version in some decisive ways. To name a few, the pricier Xbox 360 is sleeker and more powerful (see BW Online, 11/22/05, "Xbox: How It's Designed to Thrill"). And unlike its predecessor, the Xbox 360 is being released months ahead of the comparable next-generation console from Microsoft's chief gaming rival, Sony (SNE).

But when it comes to profitability, the new machine won't change anything. Microsoft (MSFT) will carry on its tradition of taking a loss on the console, according to a preliminary analysis by market researcher iSuppli.

BREAKING IT DOWN. An up-close look at the components and other materials used in the high-end version of the Xbox 360, which contains a hard drive, found that the materials inside the unit cost Microsoft $470 before assembly. The console sells at retail for $399, meaning a loss of $71 per unit -- and that is just the start.

Other items packaged with the console -- including the power supply, cables, and controllers -- add another $55 to Microsoft's cost, pushing the loss per unit to $126. These estimates include assumptions that Microsoft is getting a discount on many components.


That was the case with the first Xbox console, which contained about $323 worth of parts and materials when released, but sold at retail for $299. It's certainly not going to help Microsoft reverse the trend of losses in its home-entertainment segment. In the fiscal year ended June 30, that unit lost $391 million on sales just shy of $3.25 billion. That's a little more than 8% of Microsoft's total sales of $39.8 billion.

A Microsoft spokeswoman said that the company's plan calls for a "gross margin neutral" strategy through 2006, meaning that between the sales of consoles, game software, and accessories, it expects to essentially break even. Profits should follow in 2007.

PLAYING TO WIN. Microsoft's strategy with the Xbox family has always been one of taking a loss on the hardware in hopes of cutting a profit on game-software sales. Redmond would like nothing more than to narrow Sony's lead in computer games (see BW, 11/28/05, "Robbie Bach Is Ready to Rumble").

The Xbox 360 was released widely on Nov. 22 with 18 game titles from companies such as Electronic Arts (ERTS), Activision (ATVI) and Microsoft's own game unit. It hit store shelves in the U.S. and Canada at the stroke of midnight, with consumers lining up outside stores from San Mateo, Calif. to New York hours before the official launch. Chairman Bill Gates showed up for a sales event at a Best Buy (BBY) store in Bellevue, Wash., and Microsoft held a launch party that drew hardcore game enthusiasts to California's Mojave Desert (see BW Online, 11/22/05, "Hardcore Offer Mixed Verdict at Zero Hour").

Semiconductors alone account for $340, -- more than 72% of the materials cost -- iSuppli estimates. One key component, the IBM-designed microprocessor chip at the center of the console (see BW Online, 10/25/05, "Inside IBM's Xbox Chip") costs about $106. Both IBM and Chartered Semiconductor (CHRT) of Singapore are building the chip for Microsoft.

ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT. Analyst Chris Crotty with iSuppli says that as both companies improve their manufacturing efficiency and production yields, they will likely reduce the chip's cost by 20% to 25%. The same will likely apply to ATI (ATYT), which is building the graphics-processing unit, or GPU, for the Xbox. iSuppli estimates that the chip is the most expensive component in the system at $141.

The graphics chip also includes embedded memory from NEC (NIPNY). "There's room to improve the yields on both chips," says Crotty. "We expect that could cut the materials cost by as much as $50." That would bring the materials cost down to $420 and total expense to $475 -- within $76 of break-even. Costs of other components could come down over time as well, further narrowing Microsoft's loss on the product.

Other components in the system include a hard drive from Seagate (STX), which costs $53, and memory chips from Samsung at $65, iSuppli says.

EVERYBODY LOSES. IBM also has designed chips at the heart of the competing video-game systems -- the Playstation 3 from Sony and Nintendo's forthcoming Revolution system, both of which are due next year. Crotty expects that Sony's loss on the Playstation 3 may be even wider, as the cell processor that IBM, Toshiba, and Sony designed for the system is more complex.

Estimates vary as to how much the cell processor will cost. Richard Doherty of Envisioneering Group in Seaford, N.Y., expects the cell chip to cost about 50% more than the Microsoft chip. "Based on what we've seen so far, the Playstation 3 could cost as much as $600 to make in today's pricing," Doherty says.

And Crotty says that since it's a more complex chip, its price will fall more slowly than the price on the Xbox chip.

FIRST TO MARKET. "The cell processor is a great chip with a lot of power, but we're hearing that it's a little more difficult to develop games that take advantage of that power," Crotty says, adding that the cell chip and Blu-Ray DVD drive will also add to Sony's materials cost. The Xbox 360 uses a conventional DVD-ROM drive that costs $21.

Sony has yet to set final pricing for the Playstation 3 in North America, but the unit is expected to sell first in Japan for the equivalent of about $450. Microsoft beat Sony in timing, but Sony could get at least some of its thunder back by shaving about $51 off that price tag.

Discuss.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Laurent said:
This means they haven't reach State 2 yet; the console aiming at shareholders.

Obviously Microtransactions are going to save the day (or customers having to buy the systems again after theirs broke, but that could backfire assuming they don't last till next year ;)
 

quetz67

Banned
Suikoguy said:
(or customers having to buy the systems again after theirs broke, but that could backfire assuming they don't last till next year ;)
Wont work here in europe, we get 2 years warranty for free
 

Xellotah

Member
If you hate MS and want to punish them... make sure you buy a X360.

DO IT GUYS, lets make sure we jack those X360 numbers to 30million in 6 months, that will sure make MS sad.
 

Tarazet

Member
Xellotah said:
If you hate MS and want to punish them... make sure you buy a X360.

DO IT GUYS, lets make sure we jack those X360 numbers to 30million in 6 months, that will sure make MS sad.

:lol I've got a better idea: I won't help the virulent and arrogant Microsoft cut its losses by buying an Xbox 360, and instead I will continue to support boutique game makers like Atlus and Square-Enix in the current gen. For that matter, the way business practices are shaping up this gen, I might wind up buying all my next-gen consoles (if any, frankly) used. Call it one man's thumb in the nose to the big corporations trying to cynically cash in on a big fad without actually helping to advance the art.
 

quetz67

Banned
Xellotah said:
If you hate MS and want to punish them... make sure you buy a X360.

DO IT GUYS, lets make sure we jack those X360 numbers to 30million in 6 months, that will sure make MS sad.
Of course it only works if you dont buy any games
 

Xellotah

Member
jedimike said:
Actually retailers lose money on each console... wholesale price for a premium pack is $401.

Woah.. Is that why we are seeing ridiculous bundles....

I guess though, that this isn't a problem for walmart.
 

jedimike

Member
Actually I was mistaken... $301 for core, $398 for Premium. Here is the wholesale list.

Credit to bill0527 for the list.

XBOX360CORE Microsoft (X-Box)
B4K-00001 Added on 8/19 Xbox 360 Core System 301.64

XBOX360PLAT Microsoft (X-Box)
B4J-00001 Added on 8/19 Xbox 360 Platinum System 398.04

B4G00001 Microsoft (X-Box)
B4G-00001 Added on 8/19 Wired Controller Xbox 360 29.50

B4F00001 Microsoft (X-Box)
B4F-00001 Added on 8/19 Wireless Controller Xbox 360 36.42

B4B00009 Microsoft (X-Box)
B4B-00009 Added on 8/19 Wireless Network Adapter X360 82.59

B4S00001 Microsoft (X-Box)
B4S-00001 Added on 8/19 VGA HD AV Cable X360 29.50

B4U00001 Microsoft (X-Box)
B4U-00001 Added on 8/19 Rechargeable Battery Pack X360 8.98

B4V00004 Microsoft (X-Box)
B4V-00004 Added on 8/19 Component HD AV Cable Xbox 360 29.24

B4W00001 Microsoft (X-Box)
B4W-00001 Added on 8/19 S-Video AV Cable Xbox 360 21.80

B4Y00027 Microsoft (X-Box)
B4Y-00027 Added on 8/19 Play & Charge Kit Xbox 360 14.88

B4C00001 Microsoft (X-Box)
B4C-00001 Added on 8/19 Memory Unit 64MB Xbox 360 29.24

B4Q00002 Microsoft (X-Box)
B4Q-00002 Added on 8/19 20GB Hard Drive Xbox 360 90.29

G8600 Intec
G8600 Added on 8/4 9.2" TFT Screen Xbox 360 162.62

G8601 Intec
G8601 Added on 8/16 8" TFT Screen Xbox 360 140.56

B4L00002 Microsoft (X-Box)
B4L-00002 Added on 8/19 Faceplates Hot Rod Xbox 360 13.08

B4L00004 Microsoft (X-Box)
B4L-00004 Added on 8/19 Faceplates Flames Xbox 360 13.08

B4L00005 Microsoft (X-Box)
B4L-00005 Added on 8/19 Faceplates Silver Xbox 360 13.08

B4D00001 Microsoft (X-Box)
B4D-00001 Added on 8/19 Headset Xbox 360 14.62

W1800001 Microsoft (X-Box)
W18-00001 Added on 8/19 Xbox 360 Live 12-mon Gold Card 38.48

Z0600040 Microsoft (X-Box)
Z06-00040 Added on 8/19 Xbox 360 Live 12-mon Gold Kit 54.12

ZE400002 Microsoft (X-Box)
ZE4-00002 Added on 8/19 Xbox 360 Live 1-mon Gold Card 6.16

ZE400004 Microsoft (X-Box)
ZE4-00004 Added on 8/19 Xbox 360 Live 3-month Gold Card 15.39

BJ200012 Microsoft (X-Box)
BJ2-00012 Added on 8/19 Xbox 360 Live 3 month Gold Kit 30.78

B4O00001 Microsoft (X-Box)
B4O-00001 Added on 8/19 Universal Media Remote X360 22.06

G8609 Intec
G8609 Added on 8/16 2.1 Sound System X360 48.22

G8618 Intec
G8618 Added on 8/16 A/V Selector & Storage X360 29.75

G8645 Intec
G8645 Added on 8/16 Vertical Stand w/ Storage X360 12.31

G8660 Intec
G8660 Added on 8/16 Pro Gamer's Case X360 29.75

G8664 Intec
G8664 Added on 8/16 10-CD Aluminum Case X360 9.49

G8665 Intec
G8665 Added on 8/16 Game Holder X360 8.72

S7100009 Microsoft (X-Box)
S71-00009 Added on 8/19 Perfect Dark Zero X360 42.58

S7100051 Microsoft (X-Box)
S71-00051 Added on 8/19 Perfect Dark Zero Tin Box X360 51.30

S7400023 Microsoft (X-Box)
S74-00023 Added on 8/19 Kameo X360 42.58

U2500009 Microsoft (X-Box)
U25-00009 Added on 8/19 Project Gotham Racing 3 X360 42.58
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
this is actually a pretty typical price per console at launch.. I think the PSX was more than that at launch (lost per system that is).

and no, nintendo loses virtually nothing at launch per system, and is above break even with a single first party title in the purchase. There is a reason they have such a sick cash reserve.
 
I dunno know about these numbers... iSupply knows what they're doing for sure, but I can't help but think thse estimates are a little off. For instance, the P4 3.8Ghz w/ 1MB cache CPUs cost Intel a total of 40$ US (this is around 4-6months ago, IIRC) and are roughly 1/2 (more so 180 vs 168) the size of the XeCPU and 1/3 (more so 270 vs ~240) than the PS3 CELL. So forgoing various increases due to yields and outsourcing the XeCPU should be ~80$ and CELL ~120, 6 months ago to boot. 60$ US added onto the XeCPU for outsourcing and yields seems a bit drastic to say the least! Unless the yields are drastically low or MS screwed up the contracts again, which seems unlikely. I'm not saying they're wrong, I'd just like to see how they came by their estimates... I could see yields being a big factor, since IBM isn't exactly know for their high yields.
 
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