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Microsoft FY2015 Q4: 1.4M 360+XBO Shipped

ps3ud0

Member
Sep 27, 2013
2,536
0
0
40m sounds about right for the XB1 this gen.

MS needs to figure out how to sell their consoles outside the US next gen, otherwise the same thing will happen again, barring any PS3-type clusterfuck on Sony's part.
MS need to address non-US/UK with the XO now if they consider another worldwide console launch - if they wait til then it feels like it would be already too late...

ps3ud0 8)
 

Rymuth

Member
Jun 8, 2014
15,300
2
0
The Order probably didn't even hit 250k, it's dead before it even hit the ground, it was a critical stinker and a sales disaster.

Sunset on the other hand reviewed pretty well but just didn't really sell, it's obviously not in the same galaxy as a complete bomb like the order but it's probably a sales flop that might never get a sequel.
FYI we know The Order did over 100k in just ONE country in Europe.

Might wanna revise those numbers
 

Ricky_R

Member
Dec 28, 2010
11,969
1
0
Yeah, The Order definitely made more than 250k. Irrc, it did around that the first week or so. However, it took a massive nose dive following that first npd chart.

Sony acts as if the game doesn't exsist anymore. Funnily enough, RAD's new CEO said that the game reached its goal or something like that.

As much as I wanted The Order to succeed, I had a hard time believing that statement.
 

Grimgrillz

Banned
Feb 12, 2015
564
0
0
But they also tend to have a ton of product on the shelf afterward. They still are selling AC bundles from last November...

AC bundles were produced for a specific period so to still be selling that bundle a full 7/8 months down the line tells me one thing. . .

MS will never announce how many XBO's they sold to consumers. We're going to go an entire generation without them giving a specific number because as this point, it'll be detrimental to MS as a business and raise way too many questions as to their practices.

1 bundle of a third party game still not sold out after 8 months speaks volumes, literally.
 

Three

Member
Oct 26, 2014
6,308
3,980
620
Yeah, The Order definitely made more than 250k. Irrc, it did around that the first week or so. However, it took a massive nose dive following that first npd chart.

Sony acts as if the game doesn't exsist anymore. Funnily enough, RAD's new CEO said that the game reached its goal or something like that.

As much as I wanted The Order to succeed, I had a hard time believing that statement.

The CEO said "well on its way" to reaching its goal. Whether it hits it or not or how far off it is is anyone's guess.
 

Steroyd

Member
Dec 27, 2006
25,915
0
0
England
MS need to address non-US/UK with the XO now if they consider another worldwide console launch - if they wait til then it feels like it would be already too late...

ps3ud0 8)

Yeah, they need a base to build off of while this generation is going or it's just going to be a Japan situation where they didn't build on the Xbox 360's initial burst and felt the backlash hard on the next console.
 

Ushay

Member
Sep 9, 2014
6,542
0
375
It should be noted the operating loss is mostly attributed to the $7billion Nokia write down, correct?

All in all good results especially for Surface brand. Growth on Xbox is great news despite the naysayers and physical proof that Spencer is indeed turning the ship into a positive direction.
 

Javin98

Banned
Nov 30, 2014
6,851
1
0
Ipoh, Malaysia
Can't see much more than 40M happening. People aren't factoring in the impact of a PS4 price cut on the competition. When $299 hits I'm expecting some significant marketshare erosion, and the current ~2:1 ratio will only increase.
I think you're being pessimistic regarding the XB1's sales. It should easily reach 45-50 million before it is discontinued IMO. Also, I think the PS4 will reach 120 million before it is discontinued.
 

fallingdove

Member
Dec 8, 2011
1,793
1,164
865
Growth on Xbox is great news despite the naysayers and physical proof that Spencer is indeed turning the ship into a positive direction.

That physical proof (selling your box for $150 less than you did at launch) is super compelling. We all need to stand up and clap for the genius that Phill Spencer is.
 

Miles X

Member
Aug 5, 2011
9,681
0
555
I think you're being pessimistic regarding the XB1's sales. It should easily reach 45-50 million before it is discontinued IMO. Also, I think the PS4 will reach 120 million before it is discontinued.

No way MS doesn't launch in late 2018, they'll wanna put XB1 behind them and get a jump on Sony again. This makes it that much more difficult for PS4 to get beyond 100m.

I realyl think last gen being so long was an anomoly.
 

Sydle

Member
Oct 13, 2006
11,662
1
0
That physical proof (selling your box for $150 less than you did at launch) is super compelling. We all need to stand up and clap for the genius that Phill Spencer is.

All a comment like this does is show you're out of touch with reality (i.e. ignorant) and/or being flippant and antagonistic. Neither one is a good look on you.

I don't know how anyone on this message board could miss the big things like focusing the Xbox on games, removing Kinect, delivering monthly system updates addressing Xbox user feedback requests, and Spencer just generally being favored among Xbox fans.

It's disturbing to me that Sunset Overdrive didn't sell better. Hopefully more will discover the as the X1's user base grows.

It is a fantastic game. I think it takes too long to sink its hooks into the player.

I love Insomniac's games and SO was my most highly anticipated release last year, but I still struggled to care for it until about 5-6 hours. Those first few hours stretched over 3-4 months, because I just wasn't having that much fun. When it finally clicked with me then I couldn't put it down.

I still think SO will end up on Windows 10 PC in the near future.
 

Biker19

Banned
Apr 1, 2013
6,622
0
0
MS need to address non-US/UK with the XO now if they consider another worldwide console launch - if they wait til then it feels like it would be already too late...

ps3ud0 8)

Yeah, they need a base to build off of while this generation is going or it's just going to be a Japan situation where they didn't build on the Xbox 360's initial burst and felt the backlash hard on the next console.

I don't know; They've pretty much gave up Europe, the Middle East, & Asia when they let go of their EMEA Xbox team while concentrating very hard on the U.S. & the UK.
 

Caipirinha

Member
Feb 24, 2014
2,231
18
0
No way MS doesn't launch in late 2018, they'll wanna put XB1 behind them and get a jump on Sony again. This makes it that much more difficult for PS4 to get beyond 100m.

I realyl think last gen being so long was an anomoly.

Do you really think Nadella's Microsoft is going to bother with another home console? Really?
 

Javin98

Banned
Nov 30, 2014
6,851
1
0
Ipoh, Malaysia
No way MS doesn't launch in late 2018, they'll wanna put XB1 behind them and get a jump on Sony again. This makes it that much more difficult for PS4 to get beyond 100m.

I realyl think last gen being so long was an anomoly.
I honestly don't see the next XBox launching in late 2018. It's possible, but I just find it unlikely. Just think about it. Many games this gen have been delayed and if Microsoft starts the next gen too early, third party devs may not be ready to make the jump yet. I think the earliest we'll see the next gen consoles is 2019, but I'm expecting the PS5 to launch in late 2020.
 

TechMaster360

Banned
Nov 18, 2014
104
0
0
Isn't the bottom line that the Xbox division makes a profit, unless I'm reading the figures wrong the revenue looks pretty good - we all know the PS4 is going to sell the most consoles this gen anyway so why bother fighting over numbers
 

Rymuth

Member
Jun 8, 2014
15,300
2
0
Isn't the bottom line that the Xbox division makes a profit, unless I'm reading the figures wrong the revenue looks pretty good - we all know the PS4 is going to sell the most consoles this gen anyway so why bother fighting over numbers
I remember you.

You used to go to DF threads and whine why people are taking about frame rates.

Is this basically your schtick?
 

Chris1

Member
Jun 3, 2014
7,706
1
0
No way MS doesn't launch in late 2018, they'll wanna put XB1 behind them and get a jump on Sony again. This makes it that much more difficult for PS4 to get beyond 100m.

I realyl think last gen being so long was an anomoly.

Why would the next xbox launch before the PS5? That'll only give Sony another chance to 1 up them hardware. That's probably the worst move MS could make imo. Sony knows xbox is a true competitor now, they aren't going to launch later and weaker. I never understand it when people say this. Launching the next gen xbox before PS5 is suicide imo.

Xbox just needs to launch at the same time and build a powerful beast.
 

Intrigue

Banned
Nov 13, 2014
260
0
0
Isn't the bottom line that the Xbox division makes a profit, unless I'm reading the figures wrong the revenue looks pretty good - we all know the PS4 is going to sell the most consoles this gen anyway so why bother fighting over numbers

I am not sure Xbox ever made profit on their consoles. ( research development etc included )

Their numbers are always bundled with other groups.
 

Caipirinha

Member
Feb 24, 2014
2,231
18
0
I am not sure Xbox ever made profit on their consoles. ( research development etc included )

Their numbers are always bundled with other groups.

The PS4 doesn't even make that much moolah for Sony, I'd say it's a safe bet to assume that the Xbone is running at a loss particularly considering the hardware and probable large decline in XBL subs coming from the 360.

The home console business just doesn't seem to be a particularly lucrative one unless you're going absolutely gangbusters a la PS2/Wii. Possibly the PS4 can reach those levels with boosts from VR, price cuts and the targeting of the kids market I see coming next year, but for the Xbox brand it seems to have always been elusive.

For that reason and for the "services over devices" philosophy of Nadella I wouldn't expect another traditional home console from Microsoft. It's possible but it would be quite an anomaly relative to the direction the company has been moving in since Ballmer left.
 

Sydle

Member
Oct 13, 2006
11,662
1
0
Do you really think Nadella's Microsoft is going to bother with another home console? Really?

It's hard to say, especially since he made it clear they're not giving up on phones. He's stated his approach for first-party devices is to showcase a vibrant Windows eco system and create innovative examples for their manufacturing partners to follow.

I suppose it depends how much selling power he sees in first-party game IP for the Windows 10 ecosystem, how cross-buy/cross-play are working, what percentage of Windows store sales are games (and type of games), and where consumers are playing.

It's not hard for me to imagine the next Xbox is a small-form Windows 10 PC and they take the Steam machine approach.
 

Phat Michael

Banned
Aug 10, 2010
11,692
0
0
Dubai, UAE
Surprised and slightly disappointed to see the graph suggesting there isn't an overall 2:1 ratio given the vast disparity outside of the US. And yes I'm biased, they still haven't paid enough for that E3. The results need to be so disasterous that nobody tries to pull the same trick for another half decade or longer.

For me this whole generation in terms of sales, is more about not taking your customers for granted and abusing them.
Christ dude. You need to get over it. You shouldn't be carrying this much hatred and resentment around it just isn't healthy.
 

BadWolf

Member
Apr 15, 2010
26,124
7
0
Why would the next xbox launch before the PS5? That'll only give Sony another chance to 1 up them hardware. That's probably the worst move MS could make imo. Sony knows xbox is a true competitor now, they aren't going to launch later and weaker. I never understand it when people say this. Launching the next gen xbox before PS5 is suicide imo.

Xbox just needs to launch at the same time and build a powerful beast.

The one year head start was one of the main reasons 360 did so well against the PS3 last gen.

Launching after Sony (PS2/Xbox) or with Sony (PS4/X1) hasn't worked out quite as well for them.
 

biglittleps

Member
Feb 4, 2014
1,853
0
0
Well he was in charge of removing kinect (leading to 100$ off that isn't a loss for the company).

How removing Kinect (its not available anymore in any bundles as they stopped selling completely) is not a loss for the company when they invested a lot of money in R&D to make and sell it? Even though they did not lose $100 by removing but they lost money spent in making Kinect as they almost stopped selling it.
 

Occam

Member
Oct 15, 2013
6,366
1
0
If you count from the beginning of Microsoft's Xbox venture (ca. 1999 until now), they almost certainly are still in the red, by several billion dollars. If viewed separately, there is no way for Xbox One's sum total (expenditures versus income) to be positive at this point, either.
 

Intrigue

Banned
Nov 13, 2014
260
0
0
The PS4 doesn't even make that much moolah for Sony, I'd say it's a safe bet to assume that the Xbone is running at a loss particularly considering the hardware and probable large decline in XBL subs coming from the 360.

The home console business just doesn't seem to be a particularly lucrative one unless you're going absolutely gangbusters a la PS2/Wii. Possibly the PS4 can reach those levels with boosts from VR, price cuts and the targeting of the kids market I see coming next year, but for the Xbox brand it seems to have always been elusive.

For that reason and for the "services over devices" philosophy of Nadella I wouldn't expect another traditional home console from Microsoft. It's possible but it would be quite an anomaly relative to the direction the company has been moving in since Ballmer left.

You could just say you agreed, the rest just appears to be "ammo"/"justification" to bait into some console war argument.
 

Biker19

Banned
Apr 1, 2013
6,622
0
0
If you count from the beginning of Microsoft's Xbox venture (ca. 1999 until now), they almost certainly are still in the red, by several billion dollars. If viewed separately, there is no way for Xbox One's sum total (expenditures versus income) to be positive at this point, either.

And the only time that Xbox as a whole had made big amounts of moolah for Microsoft, is FY 2011 because of Kinect. Even with that, as well as with them making profits from 2008 to 2013 within Xbox 360, it's still nowhere near enough to pull the Xbox brand out of the red.
 

Sydle

Member
Oct 13, 2006
11,662
1
0
If you count from the beginning of Microsoft's Xbox venture (ca. 1999 until now), they almost certainly are still in the red, by several billion dollars. If viewed separately, there is no way for Xbox One's sum total (expenditures versus income) to be positive at this point, either.

If we look at things that way then isn't the market for console manufacturers pretty grim? Didn't PS3 wipe out all of the money made from PS1 and PS2? It's unlikely that PS4 has made back all the money on expenditures either.
 

Ricky Ricardo

Member
Apr 20, 2014
5,199
0
320
ATL, GA (USA)
If you count from the beginning of Microsoft's Xbox venture (ca. 1999 until now), they almost certainly are still in the red, by several billion dollars. If viewed separately, there is no way for Xbox One's sum total (expenditures versus income) to be positive at this point, either.

Citation needed.
 

Chris1

Member
Jun 3, 2014
7,706
1
0
The one year head start was one of the main reasons 360 did so well against the PS3 last gen.

Launching after Sony (PS2/Xbox) or with Sony (PS4/X1) hasn't worked out quite as well for them.

I don't think that will be repeated though. Sony was just coming off the PS2 & I don't think anyone would have thought the next xbox would have been a true competitor to PS3. Different situations and different times, if the next xbox comes out before the PS5, I'd put every penny I own on the PS5 being more powerful which will only put MS back in the same situation as this gen. I really can't see it happening.
 

Occam

Member
Oct 15, 2013
6,366
1
0
Microsoft lost $4 billion USD in four years with Xbox 1 (Forbes estimate from 2005).
http://www.engadget.com/2005/09/26/forbes-xbox-lost-microsoft-4-billion-and-counting/

In January 2013, there was an estimate by an industry insider stating that Microsoft lost nearly $3 billion USD with Xbox 2.
http://www.vg247.com/2013/01/07/xbo...-billion-ex-sony-employee-paints-grim-future/
Some estimates are much higher: http://www.destructoid.com/analyst-microsoft-losing-2-billion-on-xbox-annually-265273.phtml

There was a report that Xbox 3 lost Microsoft $400 million USD in the first 8 months.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/xbox-one-has-raked-400-million-loss-microsoft-8-months-1460471

Now add the cost of creating and launching Xbox 3 (and don't forget about that $400 million USD NFL marketing deal).
 

Elandyll

Banned
Oct 13, 2014
7,121
0
0
Arizona
The one year head start was one of the main reasons 360 did so well against the PS3 last gen.

Launching after Sony (PS2/Xbox) or with Sony (PS4/X1) hasn't worked out quite as well for them.
There was a little more to it than just being first, but it was certainly an important factor.
The others, which made the year headstart even a bigger differential, were being at a much higher price, and for no demonstrable power differential aside from being able to play Blu-Ray movies, which is not even directly relevant to games (until later when the extra space started to play a role).

The trifecta of being
- late
- "relatively" underpowered
- $100 pricier

Will not happen again, unless Sony screws up big time.

Reading my own post though, it is interesting that MS thought they could do 2 of those 3 things thanks to Kinect...
 

Juanfp

Member
Sep 13, 2014
1,058
1
410
Microsoft lost $4 billion USD in four years with Xbox 1 (Forbes estimate from 2005).
http://www.engadget.com/2005/09/26/forbes-xbox-lost-microsoft-4-billion-and-counting/

In January 2013, there was an estimate by an industry insider stating that Microsoft lost nearly $3 billion USD with Xbox 2.
http://www.vg247.com/2013/01/07/xbo...-billion-ex-sony-employee-paints-grim-future/
Some estimates are much higher: http://www.destructoid.com/analyst-microsoft-losing-2-billion-on-xbox-annually-265273.phtml

There was a report that Xbox 3 lost Microsoft $400 million USD in the first 8 months.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/xbox-one-has-raked-400-million-loss-microsoft-8-months-1460471

Now add the cost of creating and launching Xbox 3 (and don't forget about that $400 million USD NFL marketing deal).

That NFL marketing deal was for all MS and not only to Xbox?
 

Chobel

Member
Mar 26, 2013
15,673
3
515
Why would the next xbox launch before the PS5? That'll only give Sony another chance to 1 up them hardware. That's probably the worst move MS could make imo. Sony knows xbox is a true competitor now, they aren't going to launch later and weaker. I never understand it when people say this. Launching the next gen xbox before PS5 is suicide imo.

Xbox just needs to launch at the same time and build a powerful beast.

The difference in Hardware doesn't really matter when you have a bigger install-base and bigger game line-up (which will come from launching 1 year earlier), see PS2.
 

Occam

Member
Oct 15, 2013
6,366
1
0
That NFL marketing deal was for all MS and not only to Xbox?

Alright, then disregard that one.

Still leaves however many billions Xbone cost to create and market, plus all the losses incurred due to premature price drops, expenditures to secure exclusives, etc.
 

joecanada

Member
Nov 15, 2013
5,886
1
390
No way MS doesn't launch in late 2018, they'll wanna put XB1 behind them and get a jump on Sony again. This makes it that much more difficult for PS4 to get beyond 100m.

I realyl think last gen being so long was an anomoly.

there's more reasons generations last as long as they do than sales data. these companies spend bundles of money on R&D and to recoup that money they pump out games and sell systems and games and subs.... You don't just decide "hey we are going to cut our profits down even more and start designing a whole new box" on a whim... you are looking at never recovering that R&D money potentially and just getting further in the hole with each release. The longer the gen lasts the more potential to actually turn a profit. There's plenty of articles stating that xbox division has never made a dime on it's own, so what incentive do they have for starting design on yet another xbox now? and why exactly would a new xbox sell better in the first place?
 

JaggedSac

Member
Jan 14, 2010
17,476
2
0
Microsoft lost $4 billion USD in four years with Xbox 1 (Forbes estimate from 2005).
http://www.engadget.com/2005/09/26/forbes-xbox-lost-microsoft-4-billion-and-counting/

In January 2013, there was an estimate by an industry insider stating that Microsoft lost nearly $3 billion USD with Xbox 2.
http://www.vg247.com/2013/01/07/xbo...-billion-ex-sony-employee-paints-grim-future/
Some estimates are much higher: http://www.destructoid.com/analyst-microsoft-losing-2-billion-on-xbox-annually-265273.phtml

There was a report that Xbox 3 lost Microsoft $400 million USD in the first 8 months.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/xbox-one-has-raked-400-million-loss-microsoft-8-months-1460471

Now add the cost of creating and launching Xbox 3 (and don't forget about that $400 million USD NFL marketing deal).

So they lost less in 15 years with Xbox than they did in 2 with the Nokia purchase? lol