Support NeoGAF

[SerTapTap]

Apparently there is an easy mode unlocked after beating the game and it lets you into ruins without licenses. I think I'll just play like this since the zenny multiplier in Easy mode seems to be the only sane way to get the money for a lot of this shit anyway.

General thoughts:

Controls are far better, other than lock on sometimes infuriatingly grabbing a nonsensical target you can't even shoot from your location.

Holy FUCK they DESTROYED the money curve. Like seriously, I enjoyed the heck out of this game but how the hell do you even let this happen. Ignoring the always-overpriced weapon upgrades you need like 3x as much money as you actually earn in a full playthrough to buy all the best stuff, and to upgrade even ONE of "the best" weapons (which still seem worse than homing missile) you need a whole playthrough's worth of money each. The only way to get even close to everything is fight that golden bird for what must be like an hour.

Money was almost never a problem in Legends 1, it's a complete trainwreck here. It has to be deliberate but why? There's not even that much you can do to get money after beating all the story dungeons, it should have been easy to infer sane prices from an approximate of that value.

S License is just offensively bad. It's Lifter wank and the Lifter is barely even useful in normal combat. It seems like they were way too proud of the lifter. A second Special Weapon slot would have made the game far more interesting than the Lifter did (and they could have just...given us two plus the lifter)

As I mentioned before, the special weapons balance is horrible. There's almost no reason to use anything but the Homing Missile, from the first bosses to normal gameplay to the final boss. And it's extra necessary because of all the flying assholes the early game throws at you that are infuriating to take down with the buster.

The "key" dungeons are great designs have have an awesome feel to them, but I can't help but miss the connectivity of the dungeons in Legends 1. There's also less of a foreboding feel. I started up Legends 1 hard mode last night and the ambience in just the FIRST tiny dungeon is so good with the creepy machine noises. Even minor details like the Reaverbot radar feel less impactful. The little green/red thing isn't half as cool as the Reaverbot eye and more alarming sound in MML1.

I enjoyed the greater variety of outdoor environments but they're seriously harshed by those stupid flying bird-ship enemies that made me wish I was playing underground.

The side dungeons were pretty good, though there were less than expected and a couple are so small they barely count. Side quests were poor. I'd even take the silly fetch quest for the three punks in MML1 over most of them in this game.

As stupid as it is one of my favorite things is being able to tap up to spam buster shots faster. Probably a bug and it's not in MML1, but it's got that right feel of "technique" to make it feel fun not just cheap.

I guess that sounds a lot more negative than my overall thoughts were, but IMO the game introduces a pretty heavy dose of not-as-goodness along with it's improvements. I have to say I enjoyed 1 more, even with it's controls. It's a shame we didn't get a 3, because this game really proves that with better controls and more enviornments the series could be really great.

You don't have to grab the shield guys. In fact, I don't recommend it because they don't stay down long enough and the grab mechanic can be finicky and get you hit. Instead, grab the golden crabs and toss those at the shield guys. The crabs stay on their backs forever, so you'll have plenty of time to deal with the floating mine reaverbots.

The trick to shooting them is just before they attack. Once you hit them, you can hold the shoot button and they'll be stun-locked to death (most of the time).

Other than that, of course, do the rapid fire exploit on any other enemies: hold fire button and mash up on the d-pad or analog stick.

Doesn't matter for the second pair. They're impossible to handle without throwing that I can tell.

 

[Manu]

As I mentioned before, the special weapons balance is horrible. There's almost no reason to use anything but the Homing Missile, from the first bosses to normal gameplay to the final boss. And it's extra necessary because of all the flying assholes the early game throws at you that are infuriating to take down with the buster.

Funny, to me the Drill Arm was the best weapon for bosses during the first half.

And then the Shining Laser for the final boss. All you have to do is get to the second phase with enough health and then the laser just destroys her.

 

[RK128]

The Machine Gun is very useful honestly, as I used it during the first Tron fight and it cut off a lot of her health!

 

[MegaManTrigger]

Holy FUCK they DESTROYED the money curve. Like seriously, I enjoyed the heck out of this game but how the hell do you even let this happen. Ignoring the always-overpriced weapon upgrades you need like 3x as much money as you actually earn in a full playthrough to buy all the best stuff, and to upgrade even ONE of "the best" weapons (which still seem worse than homing missile) you need a whole playthrough's worth of money each. The only way to get even close to everything is fight that golden bird for what must be like an hour.

Money was almost never a problem in Legends 1, it's a complete trainwreck here. It has to be deliberate but why? There's not even that much you can do to get money after beating all the story dungeons, it should have been easy to infer sane prices from an approximate of that value.

Money was a pretty big problem in Legends 1 too, only because there wasn't a reliable place to grind zenny, often making the grind for 1mil very tedious. In fact, it took until Easy mode to get the best out of zenny grinding. I've been playing Normal Mode in Legends 2 with an S License and I've been able to grind for a 1mil Zenny in 20-30 min. That being said, Legends 2 does go overboard with the Zenny grind and IMO the only game that does zenny grinding the best is the Misadventures of Tron Bonne because of how generous missions are with giving the player enough zenny to carry on with basic gameplay stuff.

Also, you have unbalanced stuff in Legends 1 like the Shining Laser being MUCH cheaper to upgrade than the Active Buster despite the Active Buster being lower in DPS than the Shining Laser.

S License is just offensively bad. It's Lifter wank and the Lifter is barely even useful in normal combat. It seems like they were way too proud of the lifter. A second Special Weapon slot would have made the game far more interesting than the Lifter did (and they could have just...given us two plus the lifter)

As I mentioned before, the special weapons balance is horrible. There's almost no reason to use anything but the Homing Missile, from the first bosses to normal gameplay to the final boss. And it's extra necessary because of all the flying assholes the early game throws at you that are infuriating to take down with the buster.

I disagree, I managed to get through the game using a lot of interesting weapons. You have the Drill Arm, which surprisingly makes a lot of mincemeat of bosses, Buster Cannon and Hyper Shell have their strengths in being high DPS weapons, Machine Gun Arm allows you to shoot high rounds while still enabling movement, and is especially useful against Tron Bonne's Crabbot. There's also the Blade Arm which was amazing to use against Calinca Ruins' boss.

 

[RK128]

Hello everyone !

Been really enjoying Legends 2 so far and going to post the Retrospective for the game by tonight. Hope you all enjoy it .

Edit: On second thought.....might save the Legends 2 thread for later in the week. Need to get further into the game before fairly commenting on it.

 

[Manu]

Hello everyone !

Been really enjoying Legends 2 so far and going to post the Retrospective for the game by tonight. Hope you all enjoy it .

Nice! How far into the game are you, by the way?

 

[RK128]

Nice! How far into the game are you, by the way?

So far.....the forest temple and I completed the B-Class Dungeon on that island. Once I beat that and a few other dungeons latter today, will have enough material to make the thread .

Will update the OP when I fully beat the game (the final boss is very daunting, considering posts I ready about that here).

Edit: Going to wait till later in the week before posting the Legends 2 thread. Need more time to play through the game honestly.

 

[KojiKnight]

The high price of the best stuff assumes you have the s-class license. You won't need to be maxed out in weapons for B or A class to beat the game. Won't for S either, but you'll more likely need it.

 

[dlauv]

Doesn't matter for the second pair. They're impossible to handle without throwing that I can tell.

I handled them without throwing. Beat it with 20 seconds to spare. Practice, and remember to shoot exploit everything else.

 

[RK128]

Going through Legends 2 and after getting more zenny (thank you money grinding!) & finally finding the Drill Arm & Vacuum Parts, went into the Water Dungeon................

Why, just.......why. Honestly isn't that horrid but you get lost so easily X(. I honestly spent three hours trying to get through it and still didn't beat it yet. Thankfully, watching Clement's Legends 2 playthrough helped with this, so will try and beat it tonight and get though at least one more dungeon before making the Legends 2 retrospective.

Sorry for the long wait everyone but that water dungeon really killed things for me .

 

[RK128]

Beat the water dungeon! Man was it annoying but got through it with every chest but one open (but it was only a money chest). The boss fight(s) at the end of the dungeon were really easy thanks to the Drill Arm; maxed it out and man is it powerful! Just stood in front of the guy and used it, cut off all his health like nothing XD!

Now that I finally beat that dungeon, can fully enjoy the game again and can't wait to clear more of the game tonight/tomorrow .

 

[RK128]

This retrospective, part of the Mega Man Retrospective, took a lot longer to make then I anticipated. Between trying to get through a lot of the game and ensuring I experienced a majority of the game, I feel bad I made you all wait a good extra week then I originally promised. This is a little preface, as I will ensure this does not happen again with future Retrospectives.

Now that is out of the way, Legends 2! Following the success of Legends 1 and a spin-off game Misadventures of Tron Bonne, the studio behind Mega Man Legends returns with another 3D adventure for the Blue Bomber.

This is a great sequel that fixes a lot of the little issues many had with Legends 1. A proper lock-on feature, better controls/camera system, dungeons having unique visual designs and gimmicks and a story hoping across a wide selection of locations. Legends 2 feels like a world adventure and does this make it the better game than Legends 1?

The game has some history and here is what I found on Wikipedia regarding this:

"The demo, titled Rockman Dash 2 - Episode 1: Roll's Critical Moment (ロックマンＤＡＳＨ２ エピソード１ ロールちゃん危機一髪！ Rokkuman DASH 2 Episōdo 1 Rōruchan Kiki Ippatsu?), features an independent story in which Tron has kidnapped Roll and Mega Man sets to rescue her. It was only included in the Japanese version of the game and the PlayStation Portable port of the game. The game was released for the PlayStation in April 2000 in Japan, as a regular release and another one under the label of "PlayStation the Best". It was later released in October 2000 in North America and in August 2001 in Europe] Unchanged Japanese ports of the game were also released for the PC in July 2001. In September 2005, Capcom ported the game to the PlayStation Portable but it was only published in Japan.[43] Like the preceding game, the music was composed by Makoto Tomozawa with the ending theme used in the Japanese version being Hara Fumina's "Naite Ii Yo" (泣いていいよ?, lit. "It's All Right to Cry"). In October 2009, Capcom released Capcom Special Selection Rockman Dash 2 (CAPCOM SPECIAL SELECTION ロックマンDASH2?), which is composed of a soundtrack including 17 tracks from the game and an artbook. The artbook also shows characters which were not featured in the game with all of them sharing the name of Mega Man like Mega Man Volnutt and Mega Man Juno."

So the game got a great intro demo for Japanese players and NA/EU gamers got a lengthy demo covering some early sections of the final game. When the game released in 2000, it got high scores and everyone loved it, but sales wise, it didn't like the world on fire. This lead to the Legends series hibernating for quite a while, with PSP ports of Legends 1 & 2 coming out in Japan (with the PSP version of Legends 2 fixing something I will be touching on when I get to the gameplay).

The entire Legends series would later release on North American PlayStation Network, with Legends 2 being the latest release early this month. Made an entire Topic for it on NeoGaf after all .

The story of the game is that Rock Volnut (Mega Man's official name in this sub-series), Roll and Data relaxing on the Flutter, while Barrel (Rock and Roll's father) is on a giant flying craft with an old partner. Both discuss plans on exploring a place called 'The Forbidden Island' with the Bonnes & Glide sneaking in on the ship as reporters.

The craft gets sucked into the Island, pushing Rock, Roll and Data to visit the island themselves, but they first land on as snow covered island to try and make a machine to penetrate the harsh climate of the Forbidden Island. The story gets more crazy when Rock finally lands on the Forbidden Island and accidentally frees two beings called Accents. After all of this happens, Rock is tasked to find three keys that will allow the Mother Lode to be unlocked.

If that sounds like a fun adventure, its because it IS one! The writing is as great as past Legends titles and the core story for the characters is quite strong. Morality comes into play to a points, with Rock's actions while not affecting the core story, effecting little things in interesting ways.

Overall, I really liked this story and the strong characters of Legends 1 come back in full force here.

The core gameplay is a major face-lift from the original Legends. Core design is the same, with Rock finding various weapon parts that Roll converts into tools he can use to explore new locations and every main area has a hub to explore. But the gameplay is where a lot changed. The lock-on work like Zelda, with it allowing you to move around when attacking instead of being locked in place. In addition, the game supports full analog control allowing you to look around and have greater control on Rock's movement.

Really enjoy the combat now, as thanks to these improved controls, fire fights are streamlined and feel quite rewarding. If anything, I would not be surprised if Insomniac took Legends 2 to heart when designing the combat system for Ratchet & Clank 2, as the controls mirror how Ratchet works when you hold down the strafing button.

But, what about the dungeons? If the gameplay takes notes from 3D Zelda, so should they? Well, they DO and it leads to some interesting results. The core design of each dungeon is different, with them having unique themes, gimmicks and core design elements. The Forest Dungeon for example focuses on Rock climbing up to a higher floor and repeatedly taking on another Digger.

......Then we get to the water dungeon. I hate this. I hate this. I HATE this place. You want to know why? Because it takes forever to get anywhere. This place is the reason this retrospective too so long to write, because I spent five hours backtracking to get the drill arm, grinding zenny and getting lost for a good three hours trying to find the second water key. The design is fine, with a lot of floors to explore and its nice it has a lot of hidden goodies to find if you explore but when you are underwater, Rock moves like a tank and is really slow. And when the game asks you to do some platforming? Good luck with that.

I'm making it sound like its the worst thing in the world, but it really isn't. If you take your time and come prepared, it should only take 2 hours at most to get through everything here. But it is a major flaw to Legends 2. Thankfully, the JP PSP remake of Legends 2 fixed this by making Rock faster when underwater, so it takes less time to get through the place.

The other dungeons are a lot better and the final one in particular is a lot of fun. Overall, outside of one sour dungeon, the rest are a lot of fun.

The game also introduces a lot of 'prologue' portions before you complete dungeons, with you either helping a town, saving some brothers sister from a pirate, and defending a flying base from being destroyed. It makes this world quite huge and makes the game feel longer, and that is always a good thing if done well.

The presentation here is a big step up from Legends 1, and that game looked great on the PlayStation 1. Here, the character models are more detailed, the music is more catchy and the dungeons have striking designs. Not to mention the cut-scenes got a big step up too, with better animation, more movement and them feeling 'grander'.

The music is something I want to highlight too, as I really like a lot of the tracks in the game.

Calinca Tundra - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2Lw...A19208DDBE0C8F
Calinca Tundra Reverbots - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhux...A19208DDBE0C8F
Abandoned mine (Calinca Island) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU2h...A19208DDBE0C8F
Abandoned mine (Calinca Island) Boss Fight - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7-D...E0C8F&index=11
The Flutter - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSI7...BE0C8F&index=2
Fire in the Flutter - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_8u...A19208DDBE0C8F
Train Battle 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uler...A19208DDBE0C8F
Saul Kial Ruins - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-bhaEs_tCY&index=13&list=PLFuN7I79hDh0AIcuMO8efpMh8iKRZTzeA
Tiesel's Blitzkrieg - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAhilrZ0tUY&index=15&list=PLFuN7I79hDh0AIcuMO8efpMh8iKRZTzeA
Reaverbot Boss - Wolfon - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wsf0gEyahBA&list=PLFuN7I79hDh0AIcuMO8efpMh8iKRZTzeA&index=16
Glyde's Base - Area 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH9R9VPw5F4&index=18&list=PLFuN7I79hDh0AIcuMO8efpMh8iKRZTzeA

Just want to cover one final thing before concluding; controls and difficulty settings.

Control:
Special Controls - PlayStation 3/PlayStation TV/Vita TV
Analog Stick - Walking/Running
Right Stick - Strafe Left/Right
X - Jump (Left/Right + X = Dodge Roll)
[] - Shoot
Triangle - Special Weapon
O - Interact/Pick Up
R2 - Lock-On

Special Controls - PlayStation Vita
Rear Touch Pad (Top Right) - Lock-On
Right Stick - Strafe Left/Right
X - Jump (Left/Right + X = Dodge Roll)
[] - Shoot
/\ - Special Weapon
O - Interact/Pick Up

Special Controls - PlayStation Portable
L & R - Strafe Left & Right
D-Pad - Moving around
Analog Stick (Different Directions) Lock-On
X - Jump (Left/Right + X = Dodge Roll)
[] - Shoot
/\ - Special Weapon
O - Interact/Pick Up

Difficulty: You can complete a diggers test later in the game and you have two classes to unlock; A and S. Both unlock access to one of two extra dungeons to complete, which house items that can be converted into powerful weapons. But the game gets harder, with A being 'Hard' and S being 'Super Hard'. If you do NOT want your game getting more challenging, ignore this or make a new save to try the difficulty out.

Overall, I really enjoyed my time with Legends 2. It is a great Zelda-like experience and its clear that the team making the Legends games got better from what they learned with Legends 1. Rock may be on the moon, but he got new life from newer generations playing the Legends series thanks to their North American PlayStation Network releases, like myself. I never played the Legends series before until recently, so I have the PSN releases to thank for me covering Legends in this Mega Man Retrospective!

Lets keep on exploring and one day, we will get Rock off the Moon.....

 

[Anarky]

How well has this and the first one aged? I want to get it later on when I get a vita.

 

[RK128]

How well has this and the first one aged? I want to get it later on when I get a vita.

Legends 2 aged a lot better then Legends 1 control wise; more modern with dual-stick support and a good camera system.

Legends 1 controls fine though, just takes a while to get used to it.

But visually and musically, both hold up great as due to great voice acting and a strong art direction, the game looks timeless.

 

[Anarky]

Legends 2 aged a lot better then Legends 1 control wise; more modern with dual-stick support and a good camera system.

Legends 1 controls fine though, just takes a while to get used to it.

But visually and musically, both hold up great as due to great voice acting and a strong art direction, the game looks timeless.

Are there any particular problems with Legends 1 control-wise? Anything major in particular or just minor stuff that's easy to ignore?

 

[RK128]

Are there any particular problems with Legends 1 control-wise? Anything major in particular or just minor stuff that's easy to ignore?

You have the D-Pad to move around, L/R to turn left/right, R2 to Lock-On in place (can't move around), and the face buttons to do various things (shoot, jump, interact, special weapon).

It is odd to control at first, but if you play on Vita & PlayStation TV, you can re-map a lot to make it more 'modern'.

Right Stick: Up = Lock-On, Left = L1, Right = R1, Down = X
Left Stick: D-Pad
R: R2

 

[Anarky]

You have the D-Pad to move around, L/R to turn left/right, R2 to Lock-On in place (can't move around), and the face buttons to do various things (shoot, jump, interact, special weapon).

It is odd to control at first, but if you play on Vita & PlayStation TV, you can re-map a lot to make it more 'modern'.

Right Stick: Up = Lock-On, Left = L1, Right = R1, Down = X
Left Stick: D-Pad
R: R2

Sounds easy enough to tolerate.

 

[Megatron]

Are there any particular problems with Legends 1 control-wise? Anything major in particular or just minor stuff that's easy to ignore?

Once you remap the buttons on the vita, the controls are really good for a game from that era. And I say that as someone who played the game for the first time this year. If you are playing on a psp, they would probably be bad though.

 

[Anarky]

Once you remap the buttons on the vita, the controls are really good for a game from that era. And I say that as someone who played the game for the first time this year. If you are playing on a psp, they would probably be bad though.

Alright that all sounds good then. I'll get both.

 

[BearChair]

For Vita players of Mega Man Legends 2, how are you mapping the buttons?

I'm currently using automatic auto target but it doesn't lead enemies so I find myself missing moving ones more often than not.

Is there a better solution.

For MML1, I set up on the right stick as target, but I'm not sure how to make that work with MML2's control scheme.

 

[RK128]

For Vita players of Mega Man Legends 2, how are you mapping the buttons?

I'm currently using automatic auto target but it doesn't lead enemies so I find myself missing moving ones more often than not.

Is there a better solution.

For MML1, I set up on the right stick as target, but I'm not sure how to make that work with MML2's control scheme.

Nice to see the thread still active .

Legends 2 has the lock-on mapped to the top-right on the rear touch pad, so if cannot deal with that, use custom controls and have this set up.

Right Stick Left & Right: L1 and R1
R: R2
Left Stick: D-Pad

It makes camera controls a bit messy (as you lose the ability to look up & down) but it removes rear touch pad lock on.

 

[BearChair]

Nice to see the thread still active .

Legends 2 has the lock-on mapped to the top-right on the rear touch pad, so if cannot deal with that, use custom controls and have this set up.

Right Stick Left & Right: L1 and R1
R: R2
Left Stick: D-Pad

It makes camera controls a bit messy (as you lose the ability to look up & down) but it removes rear touch pad lock on.

I'll have to try that in the morning. Which control option in the game are you using? I'm guessing A from this setup, but just want to confirm.

 

[Voost Kain]

Megaman Legends 2 improved in some areas but fell back on way too many and I understand why interest only really peaked back up when 3 was "mentioned" and then Capcom cancelled it. Because they really kind of hit a corner with this game.

They reused jokes (walking in on roll in the bathroom on the flutter in the desert. Again.)

But the overall plot is meant to keep you invested, some of the scenes are interesting to watch but when you think about the games overall storytelling and structure it's a complete disaster. Character motivations have no explanation. Balboa and Claymore have zero introduction we have no idea why they are there, we have no idea why they agreed to even join the mission. Glyde is there because uh, he's there, and he also gets killed because uh. Ok. Also those damn kids at his fortress are invincible.


Most of the main ruins are cheap, too long, repetitive, or a combination of the 3. Especially Elysium, once you get through the security area, which you really didn't need to go to since yoU FLEW TO THE PLANET, why why would you go back through it? There's a lot of that through out the game.

Even the minigames are either irritating or boring, example, Quiz lady that gives you the part for the "Z saber" which is completely useless btw, not only gives you 100 questions about random things, but badly translated questions about random things. Unless you pay her 2million Zenny which is next to impossible.

There are plot important cutscenes you can only get through insane means that go beyond logical thinking while playing the game.

Nino Island blowing itself up to stop the pirates doesn't destroy the ruins making it so the Pirates can still go there (in fact that battle was pointless because they were already there in the first place) It's also an example of some of the games hubs, nothings in it.

I mean the Village had nothing in it, Nino Island has nothing in it. And the Desert has nothing in it but a worse version of the jet minigame from the first game. Because once you go through the levels which has a lot of stuff, initially, 90% of that city is locked.

In the first game you had lots to do everywhere. Outside the Old City but you still had some goodies around there. With buildings, people, interaction, the works.

The license system to go into ruins is also pointless. Why do I need to go to badly designed tutorials to enter ruins at like say, the missile of the dessert surrounded by pirates? Why the heck do I have to beat the game to unlock easy mode?

The one thing that stand out though in this game are the Sub Ruins, including the one without a giant refractor. Those were well designed, brought back the main dungeon vibe from the first game and had the music creating additional tension as well. The main ruins are again either cheap/broken, Repetitive, too long, or a combination of the 3.

The best example of this is Nino Island. Followed by the Desert which if I am not mistaken you HAVE to backtrack to 3 times.

Not a bad game, gameplay got improvements, lock on is better, Megaman moves a bit faster though the stages don't seem to be designed for it, shields don't breaks, etc. But it just throws out so much. Its an ok game.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Z sabers is arguably the best weapon in the game though.

Also Glyde is there because piracy. Same with the duo - they're essentially diggers too and you're in the way.

 

[Onemic]

As someone that always wanted Mega man Legends as a child but who never got to play it, does the game still hold up today? What make the Legends series good and is the first game still good enough to play?

 

[heringer]

I'm so torn if I play the original Legends or if I skip to 2 already. Apparently the first hasn't aged very well.

 

[RK128]

While Legends 2 aged better control wise, both games are great times. Just take into consideration that Legends 1's control will take a bit to get used to. If you want, can edit the OP to include more content about control mapping on Vita/PS TV for Legends 1 .

 

[Cels]

i havent played this game in like 12 years but i remember one of the dungeons had this absolutely enormous room right before the boss, and it was either underwater or low gravity with squidlike enemies or something like that. you had to use the dashing boot thing (hold circle i think?) to get anywhere in that gigantic room. dunno why that even sticks out to me. i also remember him trying to perv on roll in the shower and her shrieking.

 

[RomanticHeroX]

I'm so torn if I play the original Legends or if I skip to 2 already. Apparently the first hasn't aged very well.

The first one is absolutely the best. Legends 2 has a lot of control improvements and is still a good game, but there's so much more detail and focus in the first. It really benefits from being one well-designed island, as opposed to a larger world.

 

[Voost Kain]

Z sabers is arguably the best weapon in the game though.

Also Glyde is there because piracy. Same with the duo - they're essentially diggers too and you're in the way.

Duo is not in MML.

ALso Glyde is there for no reason he is a pirate and they met under no circumstance that were told just like Claymore and Bolba.

Then they kill him off because uh. I guess he was a jerk. But Bonnes say they were force to work with him yet they never actually helped each other directly until on the train making that statement pointless. At least the other two did. They could have fleshed them out more.

Anyway the Saber in one is ok, the Saber in two is practically useless.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Duo is not in MML.

ALso Glyde is there for no reason he is a pirate and they met under no circumstance that were told just like Claymore and Bolba.

Then they kill him off because uh. I guess he was a jerk. But Bonnes say they were force to work with him yet they never actually helped each other directly until on the train making that statement pointless. At least the other two did. They could have fleshed them out more.

Anyway the Saber in one is ok, the Saber in two is practically useless.

Did you play The Misadventures of Tron Bonne? Glyde and his crew are introduced there as the antagonists. The entire setup to the "Pirate Alliance" in Legends 2 is callback to the Allied sky pirates in Porco Rosso (fantastic movie), where they're begrudgingly agreeing to help each other because it's cheaper and they can't take on their goal alone.

Anyway, with the context of The Misadventures of Tron Bonne (which you should totally play btw!) you would understand why they hate Glyde and his crew and are happy to abandon them at the first opportunity.

 

[Voost Kain]

Did you play The Misadventures of Tron Bonne? Glyde and his crew are introduced there as the antagonists. The entire setup to the "Pirate Alliance" in Legends 2 is callback to the Allied sky pirates in Porco Rosso (fantastic movie btw), where they're begrudgingly agreeing to help each other because it's cheaper and they can't take on their goal alone.

Anyway, with the context of The Misadventures of Tron Bonne (which you should totally play btw!) you would understand why they hate Glyde and his crew and are happy to abandon them at the first opportunity.

Tron Bonne takes place before MML1, Glyde is not in MML1, therefor Tron Bonne would not explain a signal thing.

You also forgot the other 60% of my post not about Glyde.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

I'm so torn if I play the original Legends or if I skip to 2 already. Apparently the first hasn't aged very well.

As someone that always wanted Mega man Legends as a child but who never got to play it, does the game still hold up today? What make the Legends series good and is the first game still good enough to play?

I highly recommend playing through Legends 1. While the control scheme takes getting used to, the game is still a charming package, full of great character, and an extremely intimate setting that vastly expands as you explore and progress through the plot. In this regard, not even Legends 2 matches it imo (despite having greatly improved movement and lock on)

Feel free to read through my opening post in the OT I created that goes over the game, and the reasons I think it stands the test of time, despite the aged control scheme. It should give you a pretty good idea if it's something that is up your ally or not.

I'm so torn if I play the original Legends or if I skip to 2 already. Apparently the first hasn't aged very well.

Tron Bonne takes place before MML1, Glyde is not in MML1, therefor Tron Bonne would not explain a signal thing.

You also forgot the other 60% of my post not about Glyde.

After the events of TMoTB, the Bonnes are on a pretty good hot-streak all things considered. They have absolutely no reason to ally with anyone, especially someone like Glyde. Their next target is Kattolox Island, which arguable unfolds in the course of a week, give or take. I think it's believable that they would not need to make any mention of Glyde whatsoever in the little time we spend in Kattalox, don't you? (MML1/2ish spoilers)

Spoiler

Through sky, land and sea, Megaman utterly obliterates their entire operation, to the point that they are left floating at sea on a ship built off the scrap metal from their destroyed ships. Sure, they have a giant refractor, but as implied in the opening of MML2, they used it to invest in a store that is going under and are essentially "in the red". Finding themselves on relatable ground, the ends justify the means, meaning these sky pirates and bounty hunters are willing to pool their resources together to abscond with the keys.

It's one of the things I love about the Legends world; there's a lot of implied history and dynamics that we're just dropped into. Sure Bola and Claymore aren't introduced, but do they really need to be? The Legends world is full of pirate groups and scavengers, so it's totally believable that this diverse group of pirates would ally for a similar cause.

The other 60% of your post is all subjective really. Some is understandable, some is harder to buy (the ruins in MML2 are repetitive, really? The Pokte village alone shits on everything in 1) I'm personally a bigger fan of MML1 anyway, due to it's more intimate setting, but again subjectivity and all that.

 

[Voost Kain]

I highly recommend playing through Legends 1. While the control scheme takes getting used to, the game is still a charming package, full of great character, and an extremely intimate setting that vastly expands as you explore and progress through the plot. In this regard, not even Legends 2 matches it imo (despite having greatly improved movement and lock on)

Feel free to read through my opening post in the OT I created that goes over the game, and the reasons I think it stands the test of time, despite the aged control scheme. It should give you a pretty good idea if it's something that is up your ally or not.

After the events of TMoTB, the Bonnes are on a pretty good hot-streak all things considered. They have absolutely no reason to ally with anyone, especially someone like Glyde. Their next target is Kattolox Island, which arguable unfolds in the course of a week, give or take. I think it's believable that they would not need to make any mention of Glyde whatsoever in the little time we spend in Kattalox, don't you? (MML1/2ish spoilers)

Spoiler

Through sky, land and sea, Megaman utterly obliterates their entire operation, to the point that they are left floating at sea on a ship built off the scrap metal from their destroyed ships. Sure, they have a giant refractor, but as implied in the opening of MML2, they used it to invest in a store that is going under and are essentially "in the red". Finding themselves on relatable ground, the ends justify the means, meaning these sky pirates and bounty hunters are willing to pool their resources together to abscond with the keys.

It's one of the things I love about the Legends world; there's a lot of implied history and dynamics that we're just dropped into. Sure Bola and Claymore aren't introduced, but do they really need to be? The Legends world is full of pirate groups and scavengers, so it's totally believable that this diverse group of pirates would ally for a similar cause.

The other 60% of your post is all subjective really. Some is understandable, some is harder to buy (the ruins in MML2 are repetitive, really? The Pokte village alone shits on everything in 1) I'm personally a bigger fan of MML1 anyway, due to it's more intimate setting, but again subjectivity and all that.

Yes yes they do.

It's adds to the reason why Megaman Legends 2's plot is a mess, where it contradicts itself, brings people and scenes in with no explanations, and expects you to know things you aren't told.

Yes the Main ruins are indeed repeptive. SOme of them, and I anmed them, but you kind of ignored that part.

Pokte village is nothing but the Sub ruin after you beat up the pirates, and the sub ruins are among the best parts of the game. Yes there's the regular backtacking repetivie main ruin to get the key.

Also the license boards were pointless and dumb.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

Most of the main ruins are cheap, too long, repetitive, or a combination of the 3. Especially Elysium, once you get through the security area, which you really didn't need to go to since yoU FLEW TO THE PLANET, why why would you go back through it? There's a lot of that through out the game.

Which of the ruins are cheap? You didn't specify. All four of the ruins are fairly straightforward and decently paced to travel through, even the backtracking king Nino Ruins, which as long as you have the map system, should not even be a problem. If anything, Nino Ruins is the longest dungeon solely because of the water gimmick and that they expect you to backtrack to the beginning instead of simply teleporting you once the boss was done.

Also, I'm going to assume you meant the Defense Area which has the elevator that takes you directly to the Residential Area. The reason that's there is to provide the player with a return point before taking on the boss rush and Sera, which is especially critical for if the player needs to upgrade their energy canteens, weapons, and so on. Just because you think it's pointless, doesn't mean it's actually pointless.

Even the minigames are either irritating or boring, example, Quiz lady that gives you the part for the "Z saber" which is completely useless btw, not only gives you 100 questions about random things, but badly translated questions about random things. Unless you pay her 2million Zenny which is next to impossible.

2 million zenny is impossible? You do realize you can grind for in a relatively decent amount of time? In 15 mins in Easy mode I was about to get 2mil, in Normal Mode that's about 20-25 mins. Furthermore, the questions are actually pretty well translated save for a few small errors IIRC.

There are plot important cutscenes you can only get through insane means that go beyond logical thinking while playing the game.

Like what? The cutscenes are standard and don't require any unlock shenanigans. Are you sure you've played the correct game? Because this complaint in particular sticks out much worse than the others.

Yes yes they do.

It's adds to the reason why Megaman Legends 2's plot is a mess, where it contradicts itself, brings people and scenes in with no explanations, and expects you to know things you aren't told.

Yes the Main ruins are indeed repeptive. SOme of them, and I anmed them, but you kind of ignored that part.

Pokte village is nothing but the Sub ruin after you beat up the pirates, and the sub ruins are among the best parts of the game. Yes there's the regular backtacking repetivie main ruin to get the key.

Also the license boards were pointless and dumb.

How is the story contradictory? You didn't really provide an explanation for that argument. Also, I disagree with the idea that Legends 2's plot is a mess. It's as simple as it gets: a group of pirates and diggers all over the world are going through a journey to acquire the biggest treasure that was once perceived to be a legend. Glyde doesn't necessarily need an explanation because we already know through cutscenes that he's a pirate and that he's allied himself with the Bonne Family, Bola, and Klaymoor. Not to mention, the game treats the story as if you've already played the Misadventures of Tron Bonne, so again, explanation into the origins is not necessary.

 

[Voost Kain]

Which of the ruins are cheap? You didn't specify. All four of the ruins are fairly straightforward and decently paced to travel through, even the backtracking king Nino Ruins, which as long as you have the map system, should not even be a problem. If anything, Nino Ruins is the longest dungeon solely because of the water gimmick and that they expect you to backtrack to the beginning instead of simply teleporting you once the boss was done.

Also, I'm going to assume you meant the Defense Area which has the elevator that takes you directly to the Residential Area. The reason that's there is to provide the player with a return point before taking on the boss rush and Sera, which is especially critical for if the player needs to upgrade their energy canteens, weapons, and so on. Just because you think it's pointless, doesn't mean it's actually pointless.



2 million zenny is impossible? You do realize you can grind for in a relatively decent amount of time? In 15 mins in Easy mode I was about to get 2mil, in Normal Mode that's about 20-25 mins. Furthermore, the questions are actually pretty well translated save for a few small errors IIRC.



Like what? The cutscenes are standard and don't require any unlock shenanigans. Are you sure you've played the correct game? Because this complaint in particular sticks out much worse than the others.



How is the story contradictory? You didn't really provide an explanation for that argument. Also, I disagree with the idea that Legends 2's plot is a mess. It's as simple as it gets: a group of pirates and diggers all over the world are going through a journey to acquire the biggest treasure that was once perceived to be a legend. Glyde doesn't necessarily need an explanation because we already know through cutscenes that he's a pirate and that he's allied himself with the Bonne Family, Bola, and Klaymoor. Not to mention, the game treats the story as if you've already played the Misadventures of Tron Bonne, so again, explanation into the origins is not necessary.

Actually yes I did I gave examples. Also you are confusing tedium with confusion. Example, the backtracking and slowness, and repetition of doing and seeing the same thing over and over with no change up is not good game design. The map doesn't help this because the problem is not that I am lost. They are also odd ruins that break the flow. It's not the only ruin that does this. You have to backtrack to dinosaurbot house 3 times, and that's arguably more repetitive than Nino Island.

No to mention that "town" in the desert, 90% of it is cut off after you beat the initial mission with the pirates. The game makes you think it's big and there's stuff to do when it's smaller than the first game overall especially in terms of interactivity by a significant margin. The whole twon should be accessed and that town takes very little of the disc as well I've seen the raw from the game disc data. No reason to block off 90% of that town.

The sub ruins are actually well done. One of the best parts of the game. Licenses are however pointless.

No, they fly to Elysium, why are they at the defense area when they can literally fly right to the area they need to be. There is literally no excusable reason. It isn't even that area is overly difficult it's pointless to pad out the game for no reason and you will likely never go back to it unless you start a new game after awhile. This type of pointlessness is all over the game.

Are you really trying to pretend that half the games cutscenes require you to choose or do something out the way to get? Which includes rolls "father"? I mean the bit of plot, which is little, explanation we can get in this game you'll not likely find most of the first or second playthrough, unless you play with a guide but this game you'd never really think that.

It's simple yet when I type in Megaman legends 2 plot the vast majority of results show people showing how the plot makes zero sense. Interesting. Heck even the ending is a plot hole, and I guess we'll just forget about the whole rolls parents thing that got maybe 5% explained. 8% if you get that one cutscene.

Also you guys have got to stop suing Tron Bonne, first, it doesn't work for Bolboa or Claymore. 2. Megaman Legends 1 does not have Glyde. 3, the reason why they need Glyde is not clear, and why did they kill him off if they needed him because they were already out of freaking money before they did.

Easy mode isn't even an option on the first playthrough. Half the stuff your posting is a poor defense. You are defending it as a biased fan of the game that things people will be doing what you are doing and will ignore issue witht he game because they played easy mode which removes a lot of the problems besides the story and ruin design.

 

[Psxphile]

Also you guys have got to stop suing Tron Bonne

Come again?

 

[MegaManTrigger]

Actually yes I did I gave examples. Also you are confusing tedium with confusion. Example, the backtracking and slowness, and repetition of doing and seeing the same thing over and over with no change up is not good game design. The map doesn't help this because the problem is not that I am lost. They are also odd ruins that break the flow. It's not the only ruin that does this. You have to backtrack to dinosaurbot house 3 times, and that's arguably more repetitive than Nino Island.

No to mention that "town" in the desert, 90% of it is cut off after you beat the initial mission with the pirates. The game makes you think it's big and there's stuff to do when it's smaller than the first game overall especially in terms of interactivity by a significant margin. The whole twon should be accessed and that town takes very little of the disc as well I've seen the raw from the game disc data. No reason to block off 90% of that town.

When I suggested the map system, I wasn't talking about finding a way after getting lost. Using the map while you're backtracking helps cut down the tedium and confusion so that you're focused on going to places that you might have missed, and don't have to get back to again.

The sub ruins are actually well done. One of the best parts of the game. Licenses are however pointless.

The License system is just fine, it's there as a difficulty increase without actually breaking the game. Especially when the base license that the game gives you is pretty easy if you've played a lot of Mega Man games and 3D Action Adventure/RPGs, and not to mention, there are incentives like increased Zenny. The best thing about it is that it's completely optional, so it's not like you're forced to do the ruins in order to progress. I will say, the S-Class License is frustrating to go through, but I understand the intent as it's about using all the game's abilities and skills to its fullest to maximize efficiency. Not sure why you think it's pointless.

No, they fly to Elysium, why are they at the defense area when they can literally fly right to the area they need to be. There is literally no excusable reason. It isn't even that area is overly difficult it's pointless to pad out the game for no reason and you will likely never go back to it unless you start a new game after awhile. This type of pointlessness is all over the game.

This complaint makes absolutely no sense, you're basically saying "why teleport to the final dungeon area, when we should be teleporting straight to the boss?" If every developer operated under this logic then there'd be no final dungeons. Elyisum's design makes sense both in terms of preparing you for Sera's gimmick (low/high/regular gravity), and in terms of lore (The Master, the whole point behind the Carbon Reinitialization Program). Also the dungeon itself is actually better to traverse through than some of the main islands' ruins.

Are you really trying to pretend that half the games cutscenes require you to choose or do something out the way to get? Which includes rolls "father"? I mean the bit of plot, which is little, explanation we can get in this game you'll not likely find most of the first or second playthrough, unless you play with a guide but this game you'd never really think that.

Show me which cutscenes actually do that. You're making it sound as if the game expects you to fulfill certain requirements for scenes, when in actuality, it doesn't. Roll's Father scene happens just before the Calinca ruins open up no matter what.

So again, are you sure you played the same game? This isn't like an RPG where you can miss cutscenes.

It's simple yet when I type in Megaman legends 2 plot the vast majority of results show people showing how the plot makes zero sense. Interesting. Heck even the ending is a plot hole, and I guess we'll just forget about the whole rolls parents thing that got maybe 5% explained. 8% if you get that one cutscene.

Using appeal to majority is a terrible way to pick apart the story's flaws, if you're going to do that at least focus on the story content itself. How is the ending a plothole? As for the parents, there's a reason why they wanted to save the plotline for the next game. Yuna is still in Mathilda's body and Mathilda appears to be unconscious (and now Sera occupies Yuna's body, so that causes a bit of a conundrum as far as switching to the right body), so she can't really explain what happened in Forbidden Island to Roll, plus the Dad still hasn't recovered his entire memory, despite the fact that he was able to remember Roll. If they both explained with their current status, it'd come off as a extreme convenience. Not everything that was hinted in Legends 2 has to be quickly explained in that game.

Also you guys have got to stop suing Tron Bonne, first, it doesn't work for Bolboa or Claymore. 2. Megaman Legends 1 does not have Glyde. 3, the reason why they need Glyde is not clear, and why did they kill him off if they needed him because they were already out of freaking money before they did.

So you're telling us to stop using Tron Bonne despite the fact that it is part of the series and connected in terms of plot and characters. This is like saying "Stop using Dr. Cossack and Mega Man 4 to explain how Mega Man got a better charge shot in Mega Man 5!" It doesn't matter whether Bola or Klaymoor wasn't in MoTB, because as I said before, the entire point is that they are pirates banding up to get the Mother Lode. They don't need some long-winded introduction about their plans and motivations, it's simple enough as is. That being said, you're relying on Mega Man Legends, and yet you completely disregard Tron Bonne when talking about characters that cross over games, that's very hypocritical and arbitrary.

Lastly, the reason they need Glyde is clear, they were running out of resources and needed someone who could provide the resources so they could start digging for the Mother Lode keys. They didn't kill him off as we do not know his fate (though seeing how MML1-2 loves seeing people surviving from explosions from mechs/etc., it's likely that he's fine), but while it's not explicitly said, the Bonnes felt they no longer needed him because they wanted to cut him out of splitting up the Mother Lode. Either that, or Tiesel didn't like that the Glyde Car was about to lose to Mega Man for the second time after the whole Nino Island debacle.

Easy mode isn't even an option on the first playthrough. Half the stuff your posting is a poor defense. You are defending it as a biased fan of the game that things people will be doing what you are doing and will ignore issue witht he game because they played easy mode which removes a lot of the problems besides the story and ruin design.

You're focusing on one thing and completely ignoring the rest. I added a Normal mode amount of time that it took for me to grind Zenny because I knew not everyone is going to play Easy mode. The whole point was to show how getting 2mil Zenny doesn't even take that long.

 

[Voost Kain]

When I suggested the map system, I wasn't talking about finding a way after getting lost. Using the map while you're backtracking helps cut down the tedium and confusion so that you're focused on going to places that you might have missed, and don't have to get back to again.



The License system is just fine, it's there as a difficulty increase without actually breaking the game. Especially when the base license that the game gives you is pretty easy if you've played a lot of Mega Man games and 3D Action Adventure/RPGs, and not to mention, there are incentives like increased Zenny. The best thing about it is that it's completely optional, so it's not like you're forced to do the ruins in order to progress. I will say, the S-Class License is frustrating to go through, but I understand the intent as it's about using all the game's abilities and skills to its fullest to maximize efficiency. Not sure why you think it's pointless.



This complaint makes absolutely no sense, you're basically saying "why teleport to the final dungeon area, when we should be teleporting straight to the boss?" If every developer operated under this logic then there'd be no final dungeons. Elyisum's design makes sense both in terms of preparing you for Sera's gimmick (low/high/regular gravity), and in terms of lore (The Master, the whole point behind the Carbon Reinitialization Program). Also the dungeon itself is actually better to traverse through than some of the main islands' ruins.



Show me which cutscenes actually do that. You're making it sound as if the game expects you to fulfill certain requirements for scenes, when in actuality, it doesn't. Roll's Father scene happens just before the Calinca ruins open up no matter what.

So again, are you sure you played the same game? This isn't like an RPG where you can miss cutscenes.



Using appeal to majority is a terrible way to pick apart the story's flaws, if you're going to do that at least focus on the story content itself. How is the ending a plothole? As for the parents, there's a reason why they wanted to save the plotline for the next game. Yuna is still in Mathilda's body and Mathilda appears to be unconscious (and now Sera occupies Yuna's body, so that causes a bit of a conundrum as far as switching to the right body), so she can't really explain what happened in Forbidden Island to Roll, plus the Dad still hasn't recovered his entire memory, despite the fact that he was able to remember Roll. If they both explained with their current status, it'd come off as a extreme convenience. Not everything that was hinted in Legends 2 has to be quickly explained in that game.



So you're telling us to stop using Tron Bonne despite the fact that it is part of the series and connected in terms of plot and characters. This is like saying "Stop using Dr. Cossack and Mega Man 4 to explain how Mega Man got a better charge shot in Mega Man 5!" It doesn't matter whether Bola or Klaymoor wasn't in MoTB, because as I said before, the entire point is that they are pirates banding up to get the Mother Lode. They don't need some long-winded introduction about their plans and motivations, it's simple enough as is. That being said, you're relying on Mega Man Legends, and yet you completely disregard Tron Bonne when talking about characters that cross over games, that's very hypocritical and arbitrary.

Lastly, the reason they need Glyde is clear, they were running out of resources and needed someone who could provide the resources so they could start digging for the Mother Lode keys. They didn't kill him off as we do not know his fate (though seeing how MML1-2 loves seeing people surviving from explosions from mechs/etc., it's likely that he's fine), but while it's not explicitly said, the Bonnes felt they no longer needed him because they wanted to cut him out of splitting up the Mother Lode. Either that, or Tiesel didn't like that the Glyde Car was about to lose to Mega Man for the second time after the whole Nino Island debacle.



You're focusing on one thing and completely ignoring the rest. I added a Normal mode amount of time that it took for me to grind Zenny because I knew not everyone is going to play Easy mode. The whole point was to show how getting 2mil Zenny doesn't even take that long.

No it's not fine because it's artificial and pointless. You are dealing with ruins harder than the sub runs and enemies on the surface harder than some of the sub ruins, why am I doing useless training being put in situations that never happen to get a license to unlock a ruin?

I mean who even put those requirements there? On that Island with the 3 villagers and Glides base there's no city anywhere near that ruin yet I need a license to enter?

No you are ignoring what the game shows you, the game shows you flying to Elysium, that security area is literally just there to extend gameplay time artificially and you'll likely never go back there. There is no in game explanation for going through that area. Just like it was pointless to have those Island hoping teleporters with nothing there. It's clear that the last part of the game wasn't really finished. Also the lore is explained before this area, and does not come up again until the last boss, so you are literally making excuses for this game by pretending things happened that didin't.

Also you're wrong there are numerous scenes in the game that have requirements. Joe does not indicate he remember roll clearly through a normal playtrhough you have to do something else. But that's beside the point because now you are claiming "zero" cutscenes have to be found which is extremely silly and I'll give you time to take that back.

Your roll paragraph is filled with your own assumptions and your own opinions of what it could do with the story, yet you seem to also forget what the STORY DID TELL US, making this paragraph pointless. You seem to have a habit of saying the game means "this" or I wouldn't make sense because of "Y" while also forgetting what the game does tell us.

I'm not telling you not to use Tron Bonne, I'm telling you the game pretty much pretends it doesn't exist MOSTLY, and the first game also pretend it doesn't exist, which this game is a sequel of. You are using circular arguments to defend the lack of explanations in this game.

NO they do need motivations. Just because you lack the understanding of the basic fundamentals of storytelling and plot development does not give the game an excuse for it's poor writing. You even contradict yourself here because you think we should use Tron Bonne for Glyde but it's perfectly fine of Bolba and Claymore pop out of nowhere for no reason. You know the thing that not one game in the series has actually done until this specific moment. Why are we giving it excuses now? Because you're a fan who overlooked it?

You literally made up your own reason for why Glyde was there. Why wasn't Glyde in the first game? They were running out of resources in that, and they basically told you that? Did Glyde bring Bolba and Claymore? See, without any actual introduction or set-up the game jsut has things plot right in front of you. This is bad story telling I don't care how much of a rabid fan one can be. If this was a common thing in this part of the franchise I would let it slide, but it's not, and it's (attempting) to be a narrative driven game (filled with holes) I could say that due to the obvious cuts in the game due to likely a lack of time and money, that IT could be the reason for it. but again this usually doesn't happen.

"They didn't kill him off because we don't know his fate" therefore you can't say that they didn't kill him off either. It's open for interpretation, the one time in the game where it makes sense.

The rest of your posts are guesses. Ones that make little sense given the events before that point of the game.

 

[Newboi]

I never got around to fully upgrading my shining laser. The component that gave it infinite energy was RIDICULOUSLY expensive. I spent days gathering zenny and still didn't have enough.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

No it's not fine because it's artificial and pointless. You are dealing with ruins harder than the sub runs and enemies on the surface harder than some of the sub ruins, why am I doing useless training being put in situations that never happen to get a license to unlock a ruin?

I mean who even put those requirements there? On that Island with the 3 villagers and Glides base there's no city anywhere near that ruin yet I need a license to enter?

Who said the scenarios won't be relevant from when you complete them? There are licenses in which you won't see certain mannerisms from enemies because you're playing at a lower difficulty. Many of those including enemies using status effects to slow you down (remember the weapon energy leaks from the Class A and S tests? They are used by a lot of enemies after you increase difficulty). Another change is also to your reaction skills by decreasing the amount of time in which enemies execute an attack. For instance, Sera in a Class B/A License will take a very long time to activate the meteor attack, enabling you to dodge very easily. However, if you take the S Class License, she will activate attacks at a much faster pace, which means you have a minimal margin of error to dodge/run away from certain attacks.

No you are ignoring what the game shows you, the game shows you flying to Elysium, that security area is literally just there to extend gameplay time artificially and you'll likely never go back there. There is no in game explanation for going through that area. Just like it was pointless to have those Island hoping teleporters with nothing there. It's clear that the last part of the game wasn't really finished. Also the lore is explained before this area, and does not come up again until the last boss, so you are literally making excuses for this game by pretending things happened that didin't.

What kind of logic is that? Even if you look at where the game is showing your destination, that doesn't mean you immediately go into the boss area with no travelling. Maybe you missed this, but Elysium is a moon-sized space colony. You wouldn't just from from the rocket into the Library in a matter of seconds as you seem to suggest. Also, the dungeon as a whole isn't even that long so I'm not sure how you can even call it padding. In fact, the whole padding argument makes zero sense.

Also you're wrong there are numerous scenes in the game that have requirements. Joe does not indicate he remember roll clearly through a normal playtrhough you have to do something else. But that's beside the point because now you are claiming "zero" cutscenes have to be found which is extremely silly and I'll give you time to take that back.

So why don't you show me the cutscenes that have requirements? I've played the game enough times to know that there aren't any major story cutscenes that are locked behind these so-called requirements. What you're saying is complete bullshit until you provide actual evidence.

Here's how I know Joe remembers Roll, so clearly you either mashed through the button to skip the scene, or didn't pay attention. This is RIGHT before the Pirate attack on Yosyonke too, so again, there aren't any major requirements you needed to fulfill the scene.

CONDOMINIUM ROOM 102:
Bartender (Joe's Wife): He worked so hard to build that...Worked day and
night until he collapsed! Said he wanted to protect the city from the
pirates...

Joe: I knew that you would come...I don't know how, but I just knew...I need
to ask you something...You know the train at the station here? I modified
that to help fight off the pirates, but...I'm in no shape to use it. That
means it's up to you. Here--that's the key to the train.

(You got: Train Key!)

Joe: Use it...Use it to protect our city. ...... I was dreaming this
morning...I was with my family...And we were laughing happily...I miss
them...

Joe (after previous conversation): ...... ...What is it? It's up to you to
stop the pirates. I'm sorry...Can't help...You've got to save the city...
(after MegaMan leaves)

Bartender: I have a few errands to run. I'll be back soon.

Joe: ...... 10 years ago, we tried to land on Forbidden Island...And
now...You're trying to succeed where we failed...He can do it...You can
trust him...He's the one, Roll...
(drops picture of Roll and her parents on the floor)

In case you still think I'm making shit up, please go hunt for evidence to disprove me and show me which cutscenes have requirements to fulfill.

Your roll paragraph is filled with your own assumptions and your own opinions of what it could do with the story, yet you seem to also forget what the STORY DID TELL US, making this paragraph pointless. You seem to have a habit of saying the game means "this" or I wouldn't make sense because of "Y" while also forgetting what the game does tell us.

I'm using what the cutscenes and games communicated, sure there can be open interpretations, but the interpretations has to fit the information that the games give you. You don't just simply make wild interpretations just for the sake of. Just as I've shown in the paragraph prior about Joe remembering Roll. And yet, you're reaching and making a lot of things up to justify flaws in places where there isn't any flaws. In fact, a lot of your arguments sound like you're making things up, or haven't paid full attention to the game.

I'm not telling you not to use Tron Bonne, I'm telling you the game pretty much pretends it doesn't exist MOSTLY, and the first game also pretend it doesn't exist, which this game is a sequel of. You are using circular arguments to defend the lack of explanations in this game.

NO they do need motivations. Just because you lack the understanding of the basic fundamentals of storytelling and plot development does not give the game an excuse for it's poor writing. You even contradict yourself here because you think we should use Tron Bonne for Glyde but it's perfectly fine of Bolba and Claymore pop out of nowhere for no reason. You know the thing that not one game in the series has actually done until this specific moment. Why are we giving it excuses now? Because you're a fan who overlooked it?

You literally made up your own reason for why Glyde was there. Why wasn't Glyde in the first game? They were running out of resources in that, and they basically told you that? Did Glyde bring Bolba and Claymore? See, without any actual introduction or set-up the game jsut has things plot right in front of you. This is bad story telling I don't care how much of a rabid fan one can be. If this was a common thing in this part of the franchise I would let it slide, but it's not, and it's (attempting) to be a narrative driven game (filled with holes) I could say that due to the obvious cuts in the game due to likely a lack of time and money, that IT could be the reason for it. but again this usually doesn't happen.

I find it really funny that instead of countering my points, you conveniently avoid my questions and me asking for your in-depth explanation of "plotholes." Furthermore you resort to petty stuff like calling me a "rabid fan" and implying that I do not understand the fundamentals of storytelling.

First off, it's clear you don't understand the fundamentals of storytelling. The whole Pirate group is evocative of "show, don't tell" writing, which essentially enables the player/reader to experience through actions, words and thoughts rather than through exposition and description. Not that there's anything wrong with exposition, but show don't tell allows people to experience the story instead of being told the story.

PRESS CONFERENCE:
Guard: Nothing to report, sir!

Bluecher: Keep your eyes wide open! If any pirates show up, I want them
taken care of immediately!

Guard: Yes, sir!

Reporter: Nobody has journeyed to Forbidden Island and returned to tell the
tale! But today, two men who have devoted their lives to studying that
infamous island...

Barrell: Did you have to call so many reporters?

Bluecher: I can't get ahold of them by myself! The more the merrier,
wouldn't you agree?

Barrell: You never change, do you? Just try not to make a fool of yourself
or me!

Bluecher: Ahem! Ladies and gentlemen of the press. Thank you for your
patience. I would like to present to you a brief description of our planned
expedition!

Glyde: Now tell me, just what do you think you're doing here? I thought you
had gotten out of the pirate game! Hmm?

Teisel: Stuff it, Glyde! Mind your business! We've got enough problems as
it is!

Glyde: What, did your little department store go under already?

Teisel: Gaahh! No, it hasn't gone under! We just, a little in the red this
month, that's all! Just need a little extra cash to make ends meet!

Tron: If you didn't buy only what you like, maybe we wouldn't be in this
fix!

Klaymoor: Shut your traps! I'm trying to listen to what he's saying!

Teisel: What did you say, you big tin can!? What do you think you are!?

Glyde: No squabbling until this job's finished, remember Teisel?

Tron: Teisel!

Bluecher: As I'm sure all of you are aware, no one has succeeded in landing
on the island beyond this tumulus cloud and lived to tell the tale. No one,
that is, except Professor Barrell, and myself. Thirty years ago, Professor
Barrell and I journeyed to that island, and returned. Over the years, we
have been asked numerous times what we saw there. We have kept that
knowledge to ourselves. But now, I intend, to give to you, the opportunity
to see it for yourselves!

Crowd: Ahhhh!

In a matter of one scene in the prologue, the game already communicates that there is a motivation for Tiesel/Tron, Glyde, and Bola and Klaymoor: to go to Forbidden Island to find the Mother Lode. We know 1) Tiesel wants to hunt for Mother Lode because he's suffering financially 2) as MoTB explained, Glyde works for Lex Loath and is interested in any treasure that he can turn over for massive profits, and 3) Bola and Klaymoor want the Mother Lode as part of their experience in the Pirate business. Now that doesn't mean there aren't problems. Capcom didn't really explain how Glyde was freed when he was jailed in MoTB, so there's that issue, but there is no need to go in full detail with Bola and Klaymoor. Their introduction and motivation are good enough and paves the way for the rest of the game's story (as far as the Mother Lode hunting is concerned). In a later scene, the group ponders teaming up so that they can have a much better chance of winning even if it means splitting up the profits three-way, and even that's explained decently.

If you still have issues, you better explain yourself because all you do is make points without backing them up with evidence.

"They didn't kill him off because we don't know his fate" therefore you can't say that they didn't kill him off either. It's open for interpretation, the one time in the game where it makes sense.

The rest of your posts are guesses. Ones that make little sense given the events before that point of the game.

This is a light-hearted and anime-styled series where Tiesel, Tron, and other pirates get blown up and are usually alive at the end of the day. I'm more than certain that Glyde isn't going to get killed off just for the sake of killing. In fact, the only real kills in the series is Mega Man Juno (MML1), and Reaverbot bosses found in MoTB, MML1, and MML2 if you even count these.

 

[Voost Kain]

Who said the scenarios won't be relevant from when you complete them? There are licenses in which you won't see certain mannerisms from enemies because you're playing at a lower difficulty. Many of those including enemies using status effects to slow you down (remember the weapon energy leaks from the Class A and S tests? They are used by a lot of enemies after you increase difficulty). Another change is also to your reaction skills by decreasing the amount of time in which enemies execute an attack. For instance, Sera in a Class B/A License will take a very long time to activate the meteor attack, enabling you to dodge very easily. However, if you take the S Class License, she will activate attacks at a much faster pace, which means you have a minimal margin of error to dodge/run away from certain attacks.



What kind of logic is that? Even if you look at where the game is showing your destination, that doesn't mean you immediately go into the boss area with no travelling. Maybe you missed this, but Elysium is a moon-sized space colony. You wouldn't just from from the rocket into the Library in a matter of seconds as you seem to suggest. Also, the dungeon as a whole isn't even that long so I'm not sure how you can even call it padding. In fact, the whole padding argument makes zero sense.



So why don't you show me the cutscenes that have requirements? I've played the game enough times to know that there aren't any major story cutscenes that are locked behind these so-called requirements. What you're saying is complete bullshit until you provide actual evidence.

Here's how I know Joe remembers Roll, so clearly you either mashed through the button to skip the scene, or didn't pay attention. This is RIGHT before the Pirate attack on Yosyonke too, so again, there aren't any major requirements you needed to fulfill the scene.



In case you still think I'm making shit up, please go hunt for evidence to disprove me and show me which cutscenes have requirements to fulfill.



I'm using what the cutscenes and games communicated, sure there can be open interpretations, but the interpretations has to fit the information that the games give you. You don't just simply make wild interpretations just for the sake of. Just as I've shown in the paragraph prior about Joe remembering Roll. And yet, you're reaching and making a lot of things up to justify flaws in places where there isn't any flaws. In fact, a lot of your arguments sound like you're making things up, or haven't paid full attention to the game.



I find it really funny that instead of countering my points, you conveniently avoid my questions and me asking for your in-depth explanation of "plotholes." Furthermore you resort to petty stuff like calling me a "rabid fan" and implying that I do not understand the fundamentals of storytelling.

First off, it's clear you don't understand the fundamentals of storytelling. The whole Pirate group is evocative of "show, don't tell" writing, which essentially enables the player/reader to experience through actions, words and thoughts rather than through exposition and description. Not that there's anything wrong with exposition, but show don't tell allows people to experience the story instead of being told the story.



In a matter of one scene in the prologue, the game already communicates that there is a motivation for Tiesel/Tron, Glyde, and Bola and Klaymoor: to go to Forbidden Island to find the Mother Lode. We know 1) Tiesel wants to hunt for Mother Lode because he's suffering financially 2) as MoTB explained, Glyde works for Lex Loath and is interested in any treasure that he can turn over for massive profits, and 3) Bola and Klaymoor want the Mother Lode as part of their experience in the Pirate business. Now that doesn't mean there aren't problems. Capcom didn't really explain how Glyde was freed when he was jailed in MoTB, so there's that issue, but there is no need to go in full detail with Bola and Klaymoor. Their introduction and motivation are good enough and paves the way for the rest of the game's story (as far as the Mother Lode hunting is concerned). In a later scene, the group ponders teaming up so that they can have a much better chance of winning even if it means splitting up the profits three-way, and even that's explained decently.

If you still have issues, you better explain yourself because all you do is make points without backing them up with evidence.



This is a light-hearted and anime-styled series where Tiesel, Tron, and other pirates get blown up and are usually alive at the end of the day. I'm more than certain that Glyde isn't going to get killed off just for the sake of killing. In fact, the only real kills in the series is Mega Man Juno (MML1), and Reaverbot bosses found in MoTB, MML1, and MML2 if you even count these.

This doesn't change the fact that it's pointless. IN fact, based on what you just said it effects things for no reason. If I wanted to increase the difficulty I would choose Hard mode, why are licenses increasing the difficulty? Why do I need them to go to ruins that are in the middle of nowhere with no towns? These are questions people circle around because "eh who cares" in a series that focuses on story and usually doesn't do things like this.

Dude, you aren't even reading, the Library is not "island hopping" across homes in Elysium. There is a space just around that building the ship could literally land right there. The security area is 100% useless and serves no purpose but to pad out the game. They could have parked the ship right on the Island, which even cutscenes with the "master" imply as well.

See now it's "major" you have backpeddaled on this twice, you didn't say that before, you said there were not "any" so which is it?

You are sounding moronic now, you can't tell me that they are using "show don't tell" in a series that has already NOT used that as a formula for story telling and then CONTRADICT yourself and say the opposite for glyde. It's like your not even reading your own posts or are just picking when it benefits you to change the rules. The plot is a mess, period, I'm not the only one who thinks this. You can't even get your own shit straight.

The rest is literally you making up your own interpretations, while also admitting they are made up and that some aspects (Glyde escaping jail) aren't explained as well but then you hand waive it. Like what is this? You are literally just picking what benefits you must in this argument and hand waiving yourself when you make a contradiction. That's poor arguing.

 

[RK128]

Been reading the discussion that has been going on here and it got heated. I don't know what the problem is, but lets just stop with posts in this thread; the game has been out for a while, I made the Retrospective on this and many enjoyed the title when it originally released on PSN .

Lets just leave it at that and put our thoughts on the title on hold. People wanting to have long discussion on games is fine in threads I make; always love to push for that ! But when people start cursing at one another and insulting each other, I don't like that :l.

I am not mod of course, so have no power here. But if something like this continues, will send a Mod a link to this thread and request for this to be locked.

Either way, have a nice day everyone.

 

[Servbot24]

I'll talk about the game whenever I damn well please, thank you very much.

Did anyone ever go to extra effort to make sure they "colored" every square panel on the map? Wouldn't do that these days, but when I was a kid I was that much of a completionist... Also got every possible upgrade and then maxed out my wallet, lol.

 

[RK128]

Didn't mean for my tone to sound overtly harsh, but I saw curse words and I thought something went wrong. If my post was uncalled for, sorry for the unneeded bump.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

This doesn't change the fact that it's pointless. IN fact, based on what you just said it effects things for no reason. If I wanted to increase the difficulty I would choose Hard mode, why are licenses increasing the difficulty? Why do I need them to go to ruins that are in the middle of nowhere with no towns? These are questions people circle around because "eh who cares" in a series that focuses on story and usually doesn't do things like this.

Except you cannot change difficultly until AFTER you beat the game (just like Mega Man Legends 1). Now you see where the utility is? My whole point is that it's there for people to who want to increase the difficulty if they choose to. Especially if you're already familiar with some of the gameplay elements. You're pushing for an explanation where it's not really necessary. In fact, Legends 1 had given the player different licenses to access some of the sub-gates. The only difference here

Dude, you aren't even reading, the Library is not "island hopping" across homes in Elysium. There is a space just around that building the ship could literally land right there. The security area is 100% useless and serves no purpose but to pad out the game. They could have parked the ship right on the Island, which even cutscenes with the "master" imply as well.

Are you really serious? You clearly have no clue how Elysium is built if you're just assuming "why not just park in the residential area?" The residential area (aka the area with the Islands) is implied to be within Elysium. It's nowhere near the outside of Elysium, so it makes zero logical sense to say "oh just park near the Island spot." This is an ignorant argument to make.

Also how did the Master cutscenes imply that? Explain.

See now it's "major" you have backpeddaled on this twice, you didn't say that before, you said there were not "any" so which is it?

I'm backpedalling? Your argument is borderline trolling. I've asked you so many times to provide evidence where the major story cutscenes are locked behind requirements, and you continually ignore it and try to flip the script on me. I'm not backpedalling, I'm exposing how you consistently make stuff up to justify your argument, which is not only asinine but a horrible way to troll.

You are sounding moronic now, you can't tell me that they are using "show don't tell" in a series that has already NOT used that as a formula for story telling and then CONTRADICT yourself and say the opposite for glyde. It's like your not even reading your own posts or are just picking when it benefits you to change the rules. The plot is a mess, period, I'm not the only one who thinks this. You can't even get your own shit straight.

The rest is literally you making up your own interpretations, while also admitting they are made up and that some aspects (Glyde escaping jail) aren't explained as well but then you hand waive it. Like what is this? You are literally just picking what benefits you must in this argument and hand waiving yourself when you make a contradiction. That's poor arguing.

When have I said the opposite for Glyde? If you're just going to misconstrue my words, then I'm not going to keep arguing further. It's clear you haven't read or comprehended what I've been trying to say.

Between making things up, ignoring when I find flaws in your made-up argument, and misconstruing my words, honestly, you're terrible to debate with.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Holy fucking shit what haaaaapppened in here

 

[RK128]

Holy fucking shit what haaaaapppened in here

Enough to the point where I felt I needed to come in long after I opened the OT and tell everyone to calm down. I don't know either but discussion can become heated sometimes.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

I'll talk about the game whenever I damn well please, thank you very much.

Did anyone ever go to extra effort to make sure they "colored" every square panel on the map? Wouldn't do that these days, but when I was a kid I was that much of a completionist... Also got every possible upgrade and then maxed out my wallet, lol.

I did. It was the only way to know I'd been everywhere for sure. It drove me nuts when I ran into walls I needed the drill arm for.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

I'll talk about the game whenever I damn well please, thank you very much.

Did anyone ever go to extra effort to make sure they "colored" every square panel on the map? Wouldn't do that these days, but when I was a kid I was that much of a completionist... Also got every possible upgrade and then maxed out my wallet, lol.

I did. Mostly to keep track of areas I've visited and areas I haven't yet visited. I tend to miss a lot of things at Nino Island's dungeon because I didn't bother to colour areas in lol.