• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Rumor Mass Effect Legendary Edition Launch Update Is Reportedly Huge, Patch Notes Leak

Apr 21, 2021
125
210
215
2021 and people are still surprised by shit like this?

Games arent launched at a "finished" state anymore. Period. Theres always something to be improved.

They are way more complex than they've ever been before. So devs work until the last minute to deliver the best game possible.

That's the reason for Day One patches. Basically every game has one.
Disc version of RE8 unpatched and played offline begs to differ.
 
Dec 13, 2018
218
367
310
Erm, are you really that short on sense? I have 0 interest in reading all that bullshit. Doesnt mean I cant take a differing opinion, just got no time for idiots. If you think that makes me a snowflake then I can just add you to that list.
Please add me to that list.
 

Portugeezer

Member
Dec 11, 2008
20,990
5,016
1,455
London
abload.de
To be fair, the better textures are just AI upscaled, whihc means the texture size wont go up at all compared to the older games. The more detailed assets will take up a bit of extra room, but not as much as stuff like textures. Its entirely possible that even though the remasterd games look better (especially the first game), the actual size of each game may not of gone up much at all.
Pretty sure on PC the orig games were something like 5gb for ME1, 7gb for ME2, and 8gb for ME3. Throw in 2 or 3 extra gigs for the dlc, and it will be close.

If the day one patch does include mostly game data, we would be talking about 32gb fhe new edition. Could be about right.
The textures are not upscale in real time right? They used AI to produce higher res textures, so they should be larger in size.

Anyway, not a bad size, could fit on a Switch cartridge for future Switch version (not sure why they didn't port even a base 360 game trilogy on Switch) ...
 

balls of snow

Member
Oct 13, 2020
742
877
320
Every time I peek here It feels like I time traveled to 2013 when the average game fits on a dvd and not 100 gb warzone patches reality we live in now.
 
Last edited:
Dec 7, 2008
3,842
1,490
1,285
So if the games launch with no day one patch and issues......people cry and complain. There is a big day one patch that will most likely fix a ton of issues they discovered since going gold......people cry and complain.

#NeoGaf
 

Andodalf

Member
Oct 20, 2013
6,122
9,299
885
24
Earth
The textures are not upscale in real time right? They used AI to produce higher res textures, so they should be larger in size.

Anyway, not a bad size, could fit on a Switch cartridge for future Switch version (not sure why they didn't port even a base 360 game trilogy on Switch) ...

Yes, the textures are going to be stored as whatever size they were upscaled to, 2kx2k or 4kx4k or whatever else
 

TheCockatrice

Member
Jun 16, 2019
3,201
6,435
640
Is there a review embargo for this? And if so, when is it up?

There are already reviews for the trilogy. If you want a review for the technical aspects of the legendary im sure theres going to be a few youtubers who are going to test it soon like DF.
 

makaveli60

Member
Jan 7, 2018
1,978
3,299
505
Is it really that difficult to understand that some of us wanted this to be a content full, fully playable offline game collection for preservation purposes? This a collection of 10-15 year old games. I don’t think this is such a huge thing to ask for in this case...
 

TheCockatrice

Member
Jun 16, 2019
3,201
6,435
640
Not saying that either

Then what exactly are you waiting for? We already know the quality of the trilogy and theres nothing left to review about the legendary edition besides the technical aspects which youtubers like DF or w/e will do better rather than Kotaku or some other stupid pointless critic.
 

Xeaker

Member
Sep 23, 2019
305
510
325
So if the games launch with no day one patch and issues......people cry and complain. There is a big day one patch that will most likely fix a ton of issues they discovered since going gold......people cry and complain.

#NeoGaf

Maybe release the game FINISHED! So no more patches are needed, is that really too much to expect nowadays?! Pathetic!
 

TexMex

Member
Aug 30, 2019
1,417
3,036
455
Just as a heads up this is 49.99 at Amazon/Wal Mart right now.

Nothing to do with the patch, but didn’t want to make a new thread either.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Portugeezer
Dec 7, 2008
3,842
1,490
1,285
Maybe release the game FINISHED! So no more patches are needed, is that really too much to expect nowadays?! Pathetic!

I get your point, but honestly how often does this happen anymore? I'd say 90% of games have a day one patch.
 

TheCockatrice

Member
Jun 16, 2019
3,201
6,435
640
Maybe release the game FINISHED!
Common sense?

Jeremy Clarkson Disbelief GIF by DriveTribe
 
  • Like
Reactions: mhirano

soulbait

Member
Mar 9, 2020
297
323
275
All I see are a bunch of people complaining who apparently do not work in development.

Nothing you launch is ever bug free.
Nothing you launch is at its 100% when it first goes live.

Now knowing this, add in the complications of having to make sure discs are printed and in retail shelves by launch date. Of course there has to be a day one patch, for any bugs or improvements that have been found since sending master compiled code to the disc manufacturer.

I just recently launched a pretty large e-commerce application. On launch day, I knew of bugs that existed, including a major one that made it so we had to disable a subset of products. However, we still launched, due to timing and knowing we will get the known bugs worked on in a few weeks. If we wait to launch when bug free, we would pretty much never launch. This is not as complex as a video game, with has a ton of variables in how the user can interact with it. They would never launch if you wanted it to be bug free. Ya'll can complain and compare to video games from the past, but all games launched before had bugs in them, but those games were less complex and it less likely users would find some of those bugs.

Ya'll complain about this, while I am thankful there are systems now in place to update bugs in games to keep them playable.
 

soulbait

Member
Mar 9, 2020
297
323
275
You declare a game in "gold" status while still fixing critical bugs.
Spot the problem here.

Another post showing ya'll don't understand development. While we don't go "gold" where I work, we have what is called code freeze. Which is basically means no more new features being added to the application. It is locked in to what we are going to launch with. This is usually two weeks or so before the application launches (large e-commerce websites) and for the larger applications we will even try to do code freeze a month out from launch.

Technically the site could launch at code freeze, or in a game's case gone gold. All at launch features are build and for the most part are in a working state. However, QA is still ongoing and we still attempt to fix as many found and known bugs before the launch day. So even after code is no longer supposed to be made, you are still coding to make sure you deliver the best product possible. In my case, I am looking out for my clients and their best interests when it comes to their e-commerce. For game developers they are looking out for the customers, us gamers, and so they can have the smoothest launch possible due to most sales coming from the launch window.

With the internet connected world, software is never 100%, it is only the best it can be at the current time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gargauth

xrnzaaas

Member
Dec 9, 2013
12,621
6,962
805
I get your point, but honestly how often does this happen anymore? I'd say 90% of games have a day one patch.
1) Just because the quality of the release builds is falling doesn't mean we should accept it just like that.
2) There's a day one patch and there's a 10GB+ DAY ONE PATCH. In my opinion it's unacceptable for remasters which had tons of time to be released in solid state. It's not like they were in a rush to release it before the holiday season or in time for some anniversary and give the gold status to a highly imperfect build.

Just to be clear, I understand the need for releasing patches, but if the day1 patch is big then it speaks a lot about the state of the development - either about messing up with the code or ignoring proper QA until the very last minute.
 

Miles708

Member
Sep 11, 2019
1,685
2,303
435
All I see are a bunch of people complaining who apparently do not work in development.

Nothing you launch is ever bug free.
Nothing you launch is at its 100% when it first goes live.

Now knowing this, add in the complications of having to make sure discs are printed and in retail shelves by launch date. Of course there has to be a day one patch, for any bugs or improvements that have been found since sending master compiled code to the disc manufacturer.

I just recently launched a pretty large e-commerce application. On launch day, I knew of bugs that existed, including a major one that made it so we had to disable a subset of products. However, we still launched, due to timing and knowing we will get the known bugs worked on in a few weeks. If we wait to launch when bug free, we would pretty much never launch. This is not as complex as a video game, with has a ton of variables in how the user can interact with it. They would never launch if you wanted it to be bug free. Ya'll can complain and compare to video games from the past, but all games launched before had bugs in them, but those games were less complex and it less likely users would find some of those bugs.

Ya'll complain about this, while I am thankful there are systems now in place to update bugs in games to keep them playable.

A website is not a product (like a game, or photoshop, or excel or whatever). The correct analogy would be to have a GAAS (like Destiny) alongside your e-commerce site.
But a game it's a finished product, nor a live service, not a real-time application, not a constantly changing app. I'm sorry but this is bullshit.

Is like people believe computers and software didn't exist before fast internet. We've been doing this shit for decades, and somehow we're only getting worse at it.

I'm actually ok to have patches for little things, not to re- download almost the entire thing. Come on now this is ridiculous.
 
Last edited:

Hugare

Member
Sep 8, 2019
1,265
2,857
475
"But games were released without game breaking bugs on the PS1-SNES-N64"

Thats like comparing a kids drawing to the Sistine Chapel in terms of complexity.

You dont know how dumb you look by saying such thing

I'm not defending Bioware, the game may end up being released broken without a patch, but that's not the case usualy.

Bad framerate, some bugs here and there, but not game breaking such as Cyberpunk at launch on consoles.

I'm pretty sure that the game will be playable to completion without the patch
 
Last edited:

TexMex

Member
Aug 30, 2019
1,417
3,036
455
There is a huge difference between being realistic about the challenges of game development and acknowledging that sometimes, day one patches are a necessary evil, versus using them as a crutch to release the game 90% of the way there to get it out the door while knowing they can push it to the finish line between manufacturing and release with a day one patch.

We are rapidly moving towards the latter being the rule and not the exception. Which is a really shitty business practice and I’m a little surprised at seeing how many corporate apologists we have on this one.
 
  • Praise the Sun
Reactions: Miles708

AgentP

Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Jun 5, 2011
8,187
3,199
1,145
Maybe release the game FINISHED! So no more patches are needed, is that really too much to expect nowadays?! Pathetic!
Probably. There is a difference between broken releases (Cyberpunk) and a game with bugs that are patched as they find them. They can think they are "finished", go gold and then find more bugs. The players will also find bugs. So the patches will continue despite the polish. At some point they have to release a game. In general publishers should delay until they have a working game, the small stuff should be patched as usual. Think Naughty Dog and Insomniac versus EA and other offenders.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alpha Male

soulbait

Member
Mar 9, 2020
297
323
275
A website is not a product (like a game, or photoshop, or excel or whatever). The correct analogy would be to have a GAAS (like Destiny) alongside your e-commerce site.
But a game it's a finished product, nor a live service, not a real-time application, not a constantly changing app. I'm sorry but this is bullshit.

Is like people believe computers and software didn't exist before fast internet. We've been doing this shit for decades, and somehow we're only getting worse at it.

I'm actually ok to have patches for little things, not to re- download almost the entire thing. Come on now this is ridiculous.

Do you work in application development? Because I actually do deliver a product to my clients who need things done by a certain time with a certain amount of features. Sure, my cycle of development is different post launch due to releasing new features as they are requested over its lifetime, but when it comes to an initial launch of a large, complex web application it is the same as any other software launch: you have a set list of must have features that you must have working by a certain date.

So no it is not bullshit, it is just the different way things are done these days. Software before was released with bugs, but it was a lot harder to fix those bugs after a product launch. What is nice about today is you can continue to develop and fix those issues after the launch. To complain about the ability to download fixes to games is a ridiculous complaint. Software development, no matter what you are developing, is an ongoing process today. Where before games were released with bugs and could not be fixed, they are able to be updated. Don't think bugs were released in games before? Take a look at speed runners. They usually exploit bugs within games so they can complete games faster than it was ever expected to be completed.

Once a game goes gold, that means the game is feature complete and working. It does not mean it is 100% bug free. Sure there are some games out there that press known broken games to disc, where without the patch it won't work at all. However, a 10GB patch does not even mean that is the case. Depending on how the code and assets are structured, you may have to include a large patch even when touching relatively small parts of the code base.

No software is ever released bug free, however in today's world we have the ability to fix those bugs and distribute those fixes a lot easier. No need to bitch and moan about it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alpha Male

Miles708

Member
Sep 11, 2019
1,685
2,303
435
Do you work in application development? Because I actually do deliver a product to my clients who need things done by a certain time with a certain amount of features. Sure, my cycle of development is different post launch due to releasing new features as they are requested over its lifetime, but when it comes to an initial launch of a large, complex web application it is the same as any other software launch: you have a set list of must have features that you must have working by a certain date.

So no it is not bullshit, it is just the different way things are done these days. Software before was released with bugs, but it was a lot harder to fix those bugs after a product launch. What is nice about today is you can continue to develop and fix those issues after the launch. To complain about the ability to download fixes to games is a ridiculous complaint. Software development, no matter what you are developing, is an ongoing process today. Where before games were released with bugs and could not be fixed, they are able to be updated. Don't think bugs were released in games before? Take a look at speed runners. They usually exploit bugs within games so they can complete games faster than it was ever expected to be completed.

Once a game goes gold, that means the game is feature complete and working. It does not mean it is 100% bug free. Sure there are some games out there that press known broken games to disc, where without the patch it won't work at all. However, a 10GB patch does not even mean that is the case. Depending on how the code and assets are structured, you may have to include a large patch even when touching relatively small parts of the code base.

No software is ever released bug free, however in today's world we have the ability to fix those bugs and distribute those fixes a lot easier. No need to bitch and moan about it.

You're effectively tying your product to the internet, which is cool for a website. Not so cool for a complete product.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "feature complete" the beta stage?

I get what you're saying but it should be kept as a last resort for a, theoretically, "complete" product that's sold to actual stores in actual discs. You don't buy a movie on Blu-Ray and have some scenes in washed out colors or in 720p, waiting for an online patch.
 
Last edited:

ReBurn

Member
Dec 6, 2008
13,019
4,176
1,240
SC USA
You're effectively tying your product to the internet, which is cool for a website. Not so cool for a complete product.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "feature complete" the beta stage?

I get what you're saying but it should be kept as a last resort for a, theoretically, "complete" product that's sold to actual stores in actual discs. You don't buy a movie on Blu-Ray and have some scenes in washed out colors or in 720p, waiting for an online patch.
It's perfectly normal for video games these days. it's been this way for more than a decade. PC gaming is almost exclusively this way. I don't know why people continue to be shocked by it. Most of these publishers don't even want you to buy discs any more and would stop selling them given the choice.

Movies are not software. Movies don't have bugs so movies don't need updates. I've had download prompts for bd-live features of Blu-ray discs in the past so it's not exactly a platform that's free from post-release updates.
 
Jul 15, 2020
458
684
340
I just got the PEGI version but it doesn't say English audio on the back. Only German, French and Italian. Can someone confirm that the English audio is not included in this version.
 

MadViking

Member
Apr 8, 2018
197
218
265
Practically every game released on disc since the PS360 days has had some sort of day 1 patch. It honestly makes me wonder why people continue to buy discs. It's like intentionally collecting broken toys. "At least I'll be able to play it when the digital stores disappear" is a funny perspective since what you're playing may actually be unplayable without patches.
What? Most of the ps360 don't have any patches or, if they have, they are still playable without them. Even many Ps4 games don't have patches, especially Japanese games.
 

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
41,265
43,032
1,310
39
Brazil
So another game that should launch a month late to have the day one updates on disc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Miles708

fart town usa

Member
May 31, 2009
3,534
2,555
1,220
Just another reason why I'm not buying this game. Bioware doesn't deserve the money, it's just gonna go towards funding more mediocre releases.

The original PS3 Trilogy is just fine for me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Xeaker

Evil Calvin

Member
Aug 23, 2017
1,362
989
435
Cars release finished. TV releases finished. Books release finished. Music releases finished. Movies release finished. TV shows release finished. General software releases finished. Sure, it gets patched when issues arise, but it's not "release MS Office without printer support and patch it in five months later" or "MS Word spelling checker becomes pay to use with patch 1.2 after reviews are out".
Justice League would like to have a word with you..........
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: mhirano