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[JokerMM]

I'm playing Diablo 4 rn, and while the game is amazing, I think level scaling is horse shit especially in games like this.
You're never really overpowered, each time you level up the enemies lvl with you, I wanna wreck their shit up with ease, isn't this the point of leveling up? To become god like being after been stuck in enemy, that's part of why the souls game feel so rewarding.
Now that I think about it, i don't think I ever liked level scaling in any game before

 

[NightmareFarm]

Thats part of the reason I disliked FFVIII. It defeats the entire purpose of playing RPGs. Pretty stupid mechanic.

 

[daveonezero]

Yeah it is usually handled very badly.

The flip side is players get stuck or things are too easy.

Honestly Nintendo did it pretty well in BotW and ToTK. It isn’t so much a level system but new stronger enemies start appearing with a hidden level system.

 

[winjer]

Yes, it sucks.
It renders the leveling up mechanics in an rpg, completely useless.

 

[Johnny Concrete]

Wasn’t that in Diablo 3 as well?

 

[R6Rider]

Flashbacks to Oblivion

 

[TTOOLL]

One of the reasons D4 sucks.

 

[sendit]

I'm playing Diablo 4 rn, and while the game is amazing, I think level scaling is horse shit especially in games like this.
You're never really overpowered, each time you level up the enemies lvl with you, I wanna wreck their shit up with ease, isn't this the point of leveling up? To become god like being after been stuck in enemy, that's part of why the souls game feel so rewarding.
Now that I think about it, i don't think I ever liked level scaling in any game before

My LV 56 Druid feels pretty over powered at World Tier 1-2. Additionally, leveling scaling works great here (the entire map is open for developers to host events). Literally every aspect of this game works better with level scaling, aside from user error or horrible build/skill choices.

 

[Gaiff]

Flashbacks to Oblivion

Lol, only game I ever played where leveling up made me weaker.

 

[reinking]

 

[MagnesD3]

I actually love level scaling if it's done well. Enemies leveling 2 levels for 5 of yours seems fair to me.

 

[vpance]

I'm playing Diablo 4 rn, and while the game is amazing, I think level scaling is horse shit especially in games like this.
You're never really overpowered, each time you level up the enemies lvl with you, I wanna wreck their shit up with ease, isn't this the point of leveling up? To become god like being after been stuck in enemy, that's part of why the souls game feel so rewarding.
Now that I think about it, i don't think I ever liked level scaling in any game before

It's convenient for parties of varying levels but makes solo pretty boring.

 

[Bry0]

My LV 56 Druid feels pretty over powered at World Tier 1-2. Additionally, leveling scaling works great here (the entire map is open for developers to host events). Literally every aspect of this game works better with level scaling, aside from user error or horrible build/skill choices.

Seriously. If this game didn’t scale a huge portion of content would immediately become pointless. I just presume if people don’t feel like they are getting stronger then they probably have no idea how to build their character.

 

[SJRB]

Yeah I agree, it sucks and I always disable it when the option is available.

 

[DaGwaphics]

A certain amount of leveling is okay. I really prefer when new enemy variants are introduced or if enemies start to appear in greater numbers. Both of those mechanics create a need to level up while at the same time preserving the ability to completely obliterate the weaker enemy types allowing you to feel more powerful than you did at the start. I have no experience at all with D4 however.

 

[Revolutionary]

I just presume if people don’t feel like they are getting stronger then they probably have no idea how to build their character.

 

[T4keD0wN]

I dig it, diablo 3 stopped being fun to me once i was able to kill everything on screen with one button press.
Unfortunately it doesnt do much, you can get so powerful that you can one hit kill even on greater rift 80+
It be better if all the damage was percentage based instead of whole numbers.

I wish games didnt have leveling systems at all, there are way better ways to handle progression.

 

[SeraphJan]

Yes, level scaling defeats the purpose of leveling.

However, there are instance where this mechanic works, for example NG+

 

[Melfice7]

level scaling is one of many bullshit mechanics that i hate

 

[semiconscious]

no argument here. level scaling completely defeats the point of leveling...

 

[Guilty_AI]

yup, its a lazy solution that makes the whole concept of levels completely meaningless

 

[Kacho]

Wasn’t that in Diablo 3 as well?

Yep. It was implemented in a pre-expansion patch. Always thought the leveling process was tedious and unrewarding after that.

 

[Holammer]

I love traditional RPGs where you can mount expeditions to higher level areas at lower levels and reap high risk/reward if you manage to survive. I particularly remember one of the Might & Magic games where I raided tough areas and high-tailed outta there with valuable loot.
With today's game design that's a big no-no, players can get sad and turn off the game if they hit a road block and have to think. Gotta keep the hamster wheel turning.

 

[nkarafo]

That's the reason i disliked Oblivion and all Bethesda games after it.

The whole point of leveling up is to make your character more powerful. This crappy game design completely takes that away. So if they don't like that why not remove leveling completely? Make it like Zelda or something.

 

[Elitro]

Don't really agree. But you're not 100% wrong either.

On one hand it's true, during leveling, that this mechanic makes the game harder when you level up since your weapons keep trailing behind in power level. I even had to downgrade to Difficulty 1 since i was taking forever to kill a basic mob.

On the other hand it ensures the content does not became too trivial, since you can always go back to previous zones to finish up remaining quests or aspect dungeons and still provide a good challenge.
Personally i really dislike overleveling mobs. Whenever this happened in wow the xp became irrelevant (mobs with lower level) and forced me to forsake the current quests and move zone which renders content useless.

Nevertheless this system should be a bit more forgiving during leveling. There are some crazy power spikes, since i assume every 10 lvls +- the potential gear stats should jump a lot and you will feel very underpowered until you get some lucky drops.

 

[Saber]

Defeats the whole purpose of being a RPG - leveling up and equiping itself to get stronger and better than the enemy. Abusing this mechanics speaks volumes about devs being lazy.

 

[PSYGN]

It's a concept that someone who doesn't actually play the game reads on paper and thinks it makes sense.

 

[Fake]

Is a lazy way devs found to 'increase' difficult.

I remember playing God of War day one and many people like me complain about level scaling turning foes into sponge.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Don't really agree. But you're not 100% wrong either.

On one hand it's true, during leveling, that this mechanic makes the game harder when you level up since your weapons keep trailing behind in power level. I even had to downgrade to Difficulty 1 since i was taking forever to kill a basic mob.

On the other hand it ensures the content does not became too trivial, since you can always go back to previous zones to finish up remaining quests or aspect dungeons and still provide a good challenge.
Personally i really dislike overleveling mobs. Whenever this happened in wow the xp became irrelevant (mobs with lower level) and forced me to forsake the current quests and move zone which renders content useless.

Nevertheless this system should be a bit more forgiving during leveling. There are some crazy power spikes, since i assume every 10 lvls +- the potential gear stats should jump a lot and you will feel very underpowered until you get some lucky drops.

You can solve these with some proper balancing. Reduce the number of levels, reduce how much the level alone affect your stats, etc.

A lot of the fun of rpgs is in the use of skills anyway, theres no need to get too hung up in the battle of numbers. It comes off as a cheap way to make players feel they're making progress, by seeing the stats go up.

 

[lachesis]

Yes I agree. I like to grind and op the shit out of enemies. By grinding, not just fighting low level monsters, but progressively harder ones that gives me the most efficient exp. With that time and effort, players should be able to become pretty op, and it's a fair trade on "how" you play your game.

However, games like Trail series have soft level cap. Scaling is one thing if the growth curve of your character is much higher than monsters and would give you the more exp - I wouldn't mind much... but soft level cap (that reduces the exp earned, and at the same time takes "forever" to really level up) is the worst. I wouldn't have mind leveling up as much as I can in early-mid part of the game, and straight blow thru the game with one shot w/o stopping the beat of the game. For me, Trail series was always like stop-and-go.

 

[Evolved1]

Generally dislike the mechanic, but occasionally, in rare instances, it can be a net benefit. Usually it just sucks though.

 

[German Hops]

I can deal with it, because I'm cut from a different cloth.

Yeah, I'm cut like that.

 

[ShadowLag]

Level scaling is just an excuse for them not to add new high level content. "Look! You can keep doing the first level over and over, because the enemies are always your level!"

 

[Phase]

Could you go through the whole game (D4) without leveling?

 

[lyan]

Thats part of the reason I disliked FFVIII. It defeats the entire purpose of playing RPGs. Pretty stupid mechanic.

Well in hindsight you strengthen yourself just like any RPGs, just closer to games with use-based systems where it is more efficient to grind weaker enemies.

 

[Kataploom]

It is, of that's gonna be the case then they should just dutch leveling up at all. Some may like "the challenge" but what's the point of levels if their not gonna be put in use anyway? Some of us also prefer to earn overpower, feel that our effort is compensated by being more powerful, which is one of the main appealing of JRPG, if someone want challenge depending on pure skills, the best approach is Sekiro design, you can play the game basically deflecting and hitting, but more skills will help you, though that doesn't unbalance the game, they're just support skills, optional for those that don't feel they need them.

If there are levels in the game, they should give more control to the player, that's how it's always been, let the player choose if they want to be overpowered, balanced or underpowered.

 

[Sakura]

I generally dislike level scaling, but I feel like it works fine in D4. I think it is more about your build and gear than what level you are.
Subsequent characters you make will also probably feel more overpowered as you can give them gear from a previous build and buffs from things like the Lilith statues. Unless the level scaling takes that into effect, I haven't made any other characters so I'm not sure.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

In Diablo 3, couldnt you always adjust the torment difficulty yourself? I forget, havent played it in a while. If you didn't adjust the difficulty yourself, you'd slaughter everything in sight. I forget what Torment level I'd use.

Can you also do this in D4?

I remember I'd set my difficulty at level 35 or 36 in rift mode. I'd edge it up to I think 37-38 if I wanted it more challenging before I quit the game for good.

 

[01011001]

the only type of level scaling any game should ever use is implementing "special" enemies that scale with you, while normal ones will not.

 

[twinspectre]

Thats part of the reason I disliked FFVIII. It defeats the entire purpose of playing RPGs. Pretty stupid mechanic.

The same can be said here. If you want a game to get easier then it defeats the entire purpose of playing videogames
The same goes to cinematic linear experience "If they want a game to be linear and cinematic then it defeats the entire purpose of playing videogames", lol (Nothing personal).
Honestly? I don't like the idea of enemies being "weak" I think it makes sense enemies getting stronger just like the main character. It is fair game, isn't it? At least this is how I see it.
as 01011001 said I kinda agree with him.

​

 

[01011001]

The same can be said here. If you want a game to get easier then it defeats the entire purpose of playing videogames
The same goes to cinematic linear experience "If they want a game to be linear and cinematic then it defeats the entire purpose of playing videogames", lol (Nothing personal).
Honestly? I don't like the idea of enemies being "weak" I think it makes sense enemies getting stronger just like the main character. It is fair game, isn't it? At least this is how I see it.
as 01011001 said I agree with him.

having enemies get easier makes revisiting past environments more enjoyable imo.

so all enemies scaling with you can be annoying.

having only some enemies scale makes backtracking not too much of a walk in the park, but also less annoying and more empowering than having every enemy scale

 

[anthraticus]

Flashbacks to Oblivion

 

[Elder Legend]

In Diablo 3, couldnt you always adjust the torment difficulty yourself? I forget, havent played it in a while. If you didn't adjust the difficulty yourself, you'd slaughter everything in sight. I forget what Torment level I'd use.

Can you also do this in D4?

I remember I'd set my difficulty at level 35 or 36 in rift mode. I'd edge it up to I think 37-38 if I wanted it more challenging before I quit the game for good.

Yes you can adjust World Tier difficulties. The problem is NOT the scaling. The issue is that so called "gamers" are lazy and refuse to learn the game's mechanics and understand their classes and character builds.

It's so funny to me, you have the world first hardcore racers like Shroud, Maximus and Wudijo racing to level 100 in hardcore playing on World Tier 4 slaughtering everything in their way and not crying about scaling. I really despise crappy players, they ruin games for others and QQ too much imo instead of focusing on getting better and trying to do some research.

The scaling in D4 is fine, learn the class and learn the builds and understand synergies. Stop blaming it on the devs, the game is designed very well at its core.

 

[intbal]

Kingdoms of Amalur uses Region Scaling.
A rat in the far east of the world is tougher than a rat in the western starting area. All other enemies follow the same pattern.

 

[DeepEnigma]

It's the laziest of RPG gameplay design. Always have said that, and always will.

 

[rofif]

That's why Morrowind is better than Oblivion.
In Morrowind, You can find high end gear if you know where it is, how to use it and how to get it. And you can pummel fools.
In Oblivion.. the high end gear does not "generate" until you are high level and by that point, simple bandits run around in daedra and glass armors...

 

[TransTrender]

Overall yes it sucks shit from ass. Someone would have to remind me of a game which did this well.
Diablo 3 doesn't count because you control the scaling, same with games like Disgaea. They are not the shitty hard coded scaling we're presumably talking about here.

 

[Myths]

It seems as though it’s meant to encourage min-maxing. In FFVIII, luckily you can abuse some abilities and weapons through a secondary system to steamroll the game. But the fact that it may be considered as “abuse” or “game breaking” is itself an irritating avenue of retreat.

 

[RoboFu]

Yup, it’s bs and not fun. They should at least put a cap on the scaling.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

RPG casuals.

Skyrim is thatta way>>>>>>>