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Last of Us Part II Deadnaming Prompts Outcry From LGBTQ+ Community and Allies

Apr 25, 2012
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'Watching a play through is the same as playing it yourself'
Nah
Who said that? If Mario says "Wahooo" on Level 7 in Mario 65 after Wario gave Waluigi a reach around that's not some hidden secret insider knowledge that comes with preordering the game and playing it on a 6 button Razer Madcat after sundown facing west. It's part of the story telling and as such intentionally open to any spectators.

People who watch others instead of playing themselves probably have an even better chance on picking up on that kind of stuff as they don't have to concentrate on controls and/or are watching it multiple times. You can't say he's wrong just because he didn't steer the character at that point.
 
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Spaceman292

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Who said that? If Mario says "Wahooo" on Level 7 in Mario 65 after Wario gave Waluigi a reach around that's not some hidden secret insider knowledge that comes with preordering the game and playing it on a 6 button Razer Madcat after sundown facing west. It's part of the story telling and as such intentionally open to any spectators.

People who watch others instead of playing themselves probably have an even better chance on picking up on that kind of stuff as they don't have to concentrate on controls and/or are watching it multiple times. You can't say he's wrong just because he didn't steer the character at that point.
Nah
 
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GymWolf

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Jun 11, 2019
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Wait a fucking moment, maybe i start to understand this deadname stuff but it can't be the problem here for 2 reason:

Lev didn't tell anyone other than his sister that he feel like a boy and nobody know his alternative name so the cult only know the regular name so how they supposed to call him\her??

And even if they know about the name, they are a religious cult, they don't give a fuck about the made up name lev called himself, they will still call her\him with the birth name to reinforce their believings.


Is people mad because enemies from a religious cult don't use a sin filled name that they don't even know about?

Do people played the game before talking about this bullshit?
 
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Whitecrow

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May 7, 2018
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What the hell is this, is the extreme left now eating itself?
That's its fate.

The only goal of the extreme left is to complain and try to get some artificial ego. It was never about people doing right things. So... it's imposible to satisfy them.
 

zombrex

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Mar 8, 2018
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In the future it will be illegal to portray gay or non white characters with any flaws in entertainment media.
 
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its almost as if promoting and incentivizing a medically recognized mental disorder (gender dysphoria) is negatively affecting culture.

sorry but this is utterly absurd but i cant think of a more deserving target than ND. They wont learn a damn thing and will only capitulate further. I think TLOU2 is the Last of Naughty Dog
 

eyesabitdull

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May 10, 2020
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For the record, this is probably the most diverse game ever.

- Female lead (plz dont try and correct this)
- First big lesbian protagonist in an AAA game.
- Jewish heroine.
- THREE major Asian Characters
- One Trans character
- Out of the 10 characters that join you in gameplay, 5 are women, 5 men. even 50-50 split.
- The game tackles homophobia and transphobia in ways no game has tackled before.
- there are hispanics, black characters, and even extinct minorities like the vita make an appearance.

Liberals should be celebrating this game. If there is something you dont like, just give it a pass. This guy is getting fucking death threats over the inclusion of all this stuff in this game, he went to bat for these people, and they are just piling on and throwing him under the bus instead of protecting him. I swear if MLK was alive today they would cancel him over something stupid. Pretty sure MLK was having affairs left and right too.

What's next? Black people upset that it doesnt tackle black oppression in the U.S? Hispanics upset over all the walls they have built around these post apocalyptic cities? Indians upset that no one cares about them enough to even put them in as an extra?

Honestly, the most on point post in this thread.

Sums up everything and anything.
 

Alebrije

Member
Feb 25, 2010
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Videogames is a bad platform to talk about LGTB groups, if a developer want to help those groups should do donating to the tons of places that have experience and know how to use better those resources. TLOU 2 fails helping those grups due to overexposing and bad writting on their stories.
 

MHubert

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Dec 22, 2019
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What the hell is this, is the extreme left now eating itself?
Of course.
The 'revolution' has always had to feast on its own children.
 

Bragr

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Jun 24, 2020
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The problem is that media sites are reporting this as real stories, they are manifesting the madness.

The Scars hate Lev, of course they would call him by the girl name. How you can play for 20 years stabbing people in the neck and get offended by that is beyond any human logic.
 
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siriguillo

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Jun 11, 2020
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In the game, based on what I've been told, it's the antagonists who refer to the transgender character by their "deadname," and they do so because they don't support the transgender character's transgender identity.

So, the context in which the transgender character is referred to by their deadname isn't one that indicates that Naughty Dog is against transgenerism but is one that's meant to indicate that the characters who use the deadname are the bad guys. So, it actually indicates that Naughty Dog supports transgenderism.

Those who are criticizing Naughty Dog for this moment in the game are buffoons and/ or drama queens.
Yes I get it and totally agree with you.
 
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SaucyJack

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In the game, based on what I've been told, it's the antagonists who refer to the transgender character by their "deadname," and they do so because they don't support the transgender character's transgender identity.

So, the context in which the transgender character is referred to by their deadname isn't one that indicates that Naughty Dog is against transgenerism but is one that's meant to indicate that the characters who use the deadname are the bad guys. So, it actually indicates that Naughty Dog supports transgenderism.

Those who are criticizing Naughty Dog for this moment in the game are buffoons and/ or drama queens.

I can confirm, having platinumed the game, that what you've been told is correct.

You are also correct that the critics are buffoons and drama queens. An empty vessel makes the most noise.
 

#Phonepunk#

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It’s true anyone who deadnames trans people is a violent hate filled murderer /s
 
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Saaleh

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Jul 3, 2020
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I'm not gonna deny that I'm LOVING this !

You played yourself son


This reaction is expected, you can never satisfy extreme sides, they will always expect more, that's why it is funny watching the excessive drama around all of this. If I were ND I wouldn't choose any side.
 

-Plasma Reus-

Service guarantees member status
Sep 28, 2011
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I didn't even know there was such a thing.
IMO it just shows a lot of this is just a mental issue. There shouldn't be a need to get upset about someone using an old name you don't want any more, unless you have an identity disorder of some sort. In which case you need help. A name doesn't change your gender. Heck, some names are used for both males and females.

I agree with J.K Rowling.
 
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dwish

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I think people cross dressing have some sort of mental illness as seen by, among other things, their much higher than average suicide rates.

Gender research has been proven to be pretty much bullshit with scientists basing their conclusions about gender not being biological on what they 'think' and 'feel' rather than actual science (such as biology and neurology).

I view myself as pretty far left on the political scale. The left is often depicted as the most vivid supporters of HBTQ, but this gender craze is just insane. Instead of letting them shape the world according to their fantasy view and forcing people (through what can pretty much be seen as collective bullying) to agree, I think we should give them counceling and mental help.

So you were called Henry for 15 years. Now you changed your name to Henrietta. If someone still calls you Henry, is that really something to go crazy about? I mean, it was your name FOR 15 YEARS. Its not like someone called you poophead.
 

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
Oct 13, 2008
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I think people cross dressing have some sort of mental illness as seen by, among other things, their much higher than average suicide rates.

Gender research has been proven to be pretty much bullshit with scientists basing their conclusions about gender not being biological on what they 'think' and 'feel' rather than actual science (such as biology and neurology).

I view myself as pretty far left on the political scale. The left is often depicted as the most vivid supporters of HBTQ, but this gender craze is just insane. Instead of letting them shape the world according to their fantasy view and forcing people (through what can pretty much be seen as collective bullying) to agree, I think we should give them counceling and mental help.

So you were called Henry for 15 years. Now you changed your name to Henrietta. If someone still calls you Henry, is that really something to go crazy about? I mean, it was your name FOR 15 YEARS. Its not like someone called you poophead.

They did call me poophead :(
 

Bojanglez

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Apr 16, 2007
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This has got to be s joke right? I thought it was an accurate representation of how this deeply religious sect, whose social awareness (at best) was only as woke as it ever would have been in 2013, would have referred to the character as. I think it was meant to provoke a reaction in the player to think "well they clearly don't accept Lev's transition".
 

Soodanim

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Feb 24, 2012
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Is this really a issue??? I just don’t get it.
There are transsexuals who fully accept that they were once the opposite sex, and agree with what JK Rowling said for example. They agree that sex exists, because to paraphrase one video I recently watched: "Without sex how can you transition from one sex to another? That's kind of the point of being trans."

In certain circles the idea of who they were before is, for whatever reason, something they want to erase from existence. Maybe it's because their past was particularly traumatic. A smaller circle within that one is the angry internet sub-group. Those are the ones that are very vocal about everything and overlap with the "Cancel culture" type stuff. They're the people that are being vocal about TLoU2.

NeoGAF, by and large, either forgets or doesn't know that these people, like the extremes of any group, do not represent the majority. The vast majority of people in this world who either are transgender or are transsexual don't have blue hair and put their gender pronouns in their Twitter profile because it isn't their entire identity to be trans - they just want to get on with their life. They see it as a medical procedure and/or a course of medicine they take and life goes on. GAF doesn't see that, they only see blue hair.

Inverse posted what I think was a well presented piece, focussing on the facts and summarising the issue, giving their thoughts at the end. Based on what was said I disagree with the article - the point is that Lev being deadnamed is hurtful to him. It happens, it's a thing, and the Seraphites doing it isn't a surprise or out of character because they kicked Lev out for being transgender in the first place. I'm assuming it's there to add a tick to the "Seraphites are bad" box in a new way. Despite that, the article didn't come across as a bit of cheap clickbait. It did, however, still make an article out of a few negative comments, because that's what websites do.
 
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Keihart

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Jun 23, 2013
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Weirdly enough, i find the game has some messages against the outrage culture.
The bigot sandwiches are kinda important in the game and are condemning that kind of reaction.

I wonder if people in REE hate the game.
 

RayHell

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Jan 11, 2020
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For the record, this is probably the most diverse game ever.

- Female lead (plz dont try and correct this)
- First big lesbian protagonist in an AAA game.
- Jewish heroine.
- THREE major Asian Characters
- One Trans character
- Out of the 10 characters that join you in gameplay, 5 are women, 5 men. even 50-50 split.
- The game tackles homophobia and transphobia in ways no game has tackled before.
- there are hispanics, black characters, and even extinct minorities like the vita make an appearance.

Liberals should be celebrating this game. If there is something you dont like, just give it a pass. This guy is getting fucking death threats over the inclusion of all this stuff in this game, he went to bat for these people, and they are just piling on and throwing him under the bus instead of protecting him. I swear if MLK was alive today they would cancel him over something stupid. Pretty sure MLK was having affairs left and right too.

What's next? Black people upset that it doesnt tackle black oppression in the U.S? Hispanics upset over all the walls they have built around these post apocalyptic cities? Indians upset that no one cares about them enough to even put them in as an extra?


Problem is there's no way to win this. Whatever you do you're going to hurt someone's feeling. Even when you don't take position you're blamed for not taking position.

Your character is:
White : Minorities will complain
Black : Racist will complain
Male : Feminist will complain
Female : Incels will complain
Straight : LGBTQQIP2SAA will complain
Gay : Homophobic and LGBTQQIP2SAA will complain
Trans : Transphobic and LGBTQQIP2SAA will complain
Human : Alien will complain

Everybody has a voice now a day and we can now see how toxic this can be.
People put pressure on businesses to open up to be more inclusive but when it retaliate like this, don't expect much improvement.
 
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I mean, I'm personally inclined to agree with the criticism. Lev was a transgender character played by a transgender actor, which is awesome.
But the story around him wasn't about him being trans, it was just about the transphobia of his family, and them treating him like absolute shit and deadnaming him. They made a trans character who didn't really add much to the story other than a subplot about people demeaning this trans person. I agree that it wasn't really good representation it was literally just a vessel for character drama in the game's story.

Compare that to one of my favorite games ever, Nier. In Nier, one of the main characters, Kaine, is intersex (different from transgender but close enough in this regard) and canonically has a dick. The game hints at this multiple times (with the novella backstory part of the game for Kaine and a few different lines of dialogue between characters) but the game never takes time to explicitly say "Kaine is intersex and the reason she dresses the way she does is because she just wants to feel feminine and wants the first thing people to see is her very explicit femininity instead of seeing her as a "freak"


Had TLOU 2 kept Lev's story more vague like it was before the whole encounter with the Seraphites (got kicked out for shaving hair and not conforming to gender norms) and then had hints to Lev being trans throughout like having bald Seraphites, having Lev's voice crack to a more feminine one (not like there's any testosterone/estrogen pills/shots in the world) and maybe a few more respectful hints to his being trans, this would be much more well recieved.

Shit like this is why having a diverse group of writers is important. I have no doubts that Neil Druckmann and team's hearts were in the right place but the execution just was not respectful at all
 

SlimySnake

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Problem is there's no way to win this. Whatever you do you're going to hurt someone's feeling. Even when you don't take position you're blamed for not taking position.

Your character is:
White : Minorities will complain
Black : Racist will complain
Male : Feminist will complain
Female : Incels will complain
Straight : LGBTQQIP2SAA will complain
Gay : Homophobic and LGBTQQIP2SAA will complain
Trans : Transphobic and LGBTQQIP2SAA will complain
Human : Alien will complain

Everybody has a voice now a day and we can now see how toxic this can be.
People put pressure on businesses to open up to be more inclusive but when it retaliate like this, don't expect much improvement.
I agree. A dev should make the game they want to make. An artist should be allowed to write about whatever inspires them. You can never please everyone. And art by definition is never going to appeal to everyone.
 
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Bog

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Maybe I’m just naive or just didn’t care about this portion of the story, but I never even knew Lev was trans. I thought he was an annoying little kid with no personality. Never once even put thought into his gender, the different names they called him, any of it.
 

A.Romero

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Maybe I’m just naive or just didn’t care about this portion of the story, but I never even knew Lev was trans. I thought he was an annoying little kid with no personality. Never once even put thought into his gender, the different names they called him, any of it.

It's a pretty big part of his character. That's why he left the Seraphites, his mother and eventually causes the fight in which he murders his mother .

Why else did you think he was where he was?
 

DeepEnigma

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It's 👏 a 👏 fucking 👏 fictional 👏 story 👏 about 👏 fictional 👏 characters 👏 you 👏 overly pasteurized 👏 braindead 👏 trigglypuffs.
 
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Bog

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It's a pretty big part of his character.That's why he left the Seraphites, his mother and eventually causes the fight in which he murders his mother .

Why else did you think he was where he was?

I don’t know that I cared? I kinda checked out on the story aspect of Abby’s half. I mean, they’re a cult. I figured he denounced aspects of it. I know they yelled some name at him but for all I know that meant “heretic” in their religion.
 

MP!

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I mean ... everything else in the game is done to manipulate your feeleings...
You don't think they did that with the expected outcome?
Isnt that what people go through?
I'm not sure I understand the outrage
 

A.Romero

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I don’t know that I cared? I kinda checked out on the story aspect of Abby’s half. I mean, they’re a cult. I figured he denounced aspects of it. I know they yelled some name at him but for all I know that meant “heretic” in their religion.

The name only happened to me once so it's very easy to miss but there is at least one cutscene that goes into why they are escaping.

I think it's a pretty integral part of the story but as you say, it could have been some other thing and the effect would have been exactly the same. It doesn't add anything (nor subtract). I think that's how these issues should be handled.
 

OZ9000

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Why would anyone question their gender in a post apocalyptic world where resources are scarce and the only thing which matters is survival?
 
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Rikoi

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Why would anyone question their gender in a post apocalyptic world where resources are scarce and the only thing which matters is survival?
First world problems brought into a post apocalyptic world. Totally unrealistic.
Still funny that they got backlash from the same community that they were trying to cater to.
 
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WellSheet

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I mean, I'm personally inclined to agree with the criticism. Lev was a transgender character played by a transgender actor, which is awesome.
But the story around him wasn't about him being trans, it was just about the transphobia of his family, and them treating him like absolute shit and deadnaming him. They made a trans character who didn't really add much to the story other than a subplot about people demeaning this trans person. I agree that it wasn't really good representation it was literally just a vessel for character drama in the game's story.

Compare that to one of my favorite games ever, Nier. In Nier, one of the main characters, Kaine, is intersex (different from transgender but close enough in this regard) and canonically has a dick. The game hints at this multiple times (with the novella backstory part of the game for Kaine and a few different lines of dialogue between characters) but the game never takes time to explicitly say "Kaine is intersex and the reason she dresses the way she does is because she just wants to feel feminine and wants the first thing people to see is her very explicit femininity instead of seeing her as a "freak"


Had TLOU 2 kept Lev's story more vague like it was before the whole encounter with the Seraphites (got kicked out for shaving hair and not conforming to gender norms) and then had hints to Lev being trans throughout like having bald Seraphites, having Lev's voice crack to a more feminine one (not like there's any testosterone/estrogen pills/shots in the world) and maybe a few more respectful hints to his being trans, this would be much more well recieved.

Shit like this is why having a diverse group of writers is important. I have no doubts that Neil Druckmann and team's hearts were in the right place but the execution just was not respectful at all

Good take.

My feelings are that Lev being trans didn’t even feel needed....it felt like agenda/inclusiveness pushing that, for me at least, makes these types of characters less natural and real. It feels like they’re being developed and included for the main purpose of checking a box.

I think my overall feelings on it was that it seemed like a lot of unique characters came together pretty conveniently....Ellie, a lesbian; Lev, a Transgender; and Abby being some nigh-believable she-hulk.

I mean, it seems crazy these groups just happen to all meet in this fashion...I wonder what the actual percentage of probability would be of that in TLOU’s world?

overall, what does any of their gender, sexual orientation and body image matter if they are GOOD, HUMAN, REAL, BELIEVABLE characters. It feels hard to separate those qualities from the agenda that seems really pervasive .
 
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