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Rumor Kotaku: "sources" Say Microsoft is "in fact" making a second disc-less console (Lockhart) along with Scarlett despite Phil saying otherwise.

Oct 16, 2017
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For those who are cheering for Lockhart, I have only one question.

Are you personally buying one? Or just like with Stadia, you are just saying "it is a good idea for other people, but I am not buying it"?

Because I want to know the number of people who are actually interested in purchasing it over Scarlet.
 

Bladed Thesis

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For those who are cheering for Lockhart, I have only one question.

Are you personally buying one? Or just like with Stadia, you are just saying "it is a good idea for other people, but I am not buying it"?

Because I want to know the number of people who are actually interested in purchasing it over Scarlet.
I would believe the people who would buy it are not the type of people to be on a gaming forum.

Thinking that way makes you wonder why anybody buys the Xbox One S or the original PS4 which still sell. Because a substantial portion of the consumer base places a high emphasis on price.

The target is that very consumer base, the person who only buys FIFA/Fortnite/COD or maybe 2-3 games a year and isn't looking to get the highest powered graphics cards or highest powered system. This consumer exists, though they are usually not vocal on forums because by definition their investment into gaming isn't substantial.
 
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Gargus

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1 kotaku should be the last place you go for any kind of information. The fucking onion is smarter and more informed than those twits.

2 don't like kotaku. We need to not give them more hits.

3 who gives a shit what console microsoft craps out next. Its few good exclusives will be on also so it's a waste of a console.
 
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Bladed Thesis

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1 kotaku should be the last place you go for any kind of information. The fucking onion is smarter and more informed than those twits.

2 don't like kotaku. We need to not give them more hits.

3 who gives a shit what console microsoft craps out next. Its few good exclusives will be on also so it's a waste of a console.
Agree about Kotuka but point 3 is stove-ready hot take.
 
Aug 24, 2016
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Of course the disc won't be the only difference. The cheaper one will have a cheaper gpu as well.

And there is plenty of reason to question whether the cheap version is treated as the mainstream one. For instance, it they want to announce a much cheaper starting price on an E3 cage, and then market how cheap it is. And it would fit nicely with gamepass and streaming too.

Will my hunch prove true? No way to tell right now. But to say I'm off base because I wonder whether a streaming company who wants to win on price will make a cheaper version their main version, seems unwarranted.

Don't forget how crazy Wii probably sounded at first. A machine with last gen specs that you wave wands at?

Microsoft isn't a streaming company and you're out of your mind and completely off base.

MS is not releasing a weaker console that would disrupt the whole point of their powerful one at the same time at launch. Sorry, that's completely delusional. There is zero benefit to doing so since they need to sell hardware. They also already have a test for how such a discless console would preform on some basis with the All digital Xbox One which is a far 3rd in sales even if you launch aligned the other 2.

You are talking about some marketing fantasy land where MS is drunk and ignored all the evidence they already have about what would work.

The worst part of your claim is the implication that Scarlett would be marketed as a premium model and that the mainstream model would be lockheart which is also complete nonsense.
 
Aug 24, 2016
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It's funny, this is a rumor yet many users are treating this as a reveal that was confirmed and are already attacking MS or speculating on complete nonsense that won't happen, and other nonsense where we already have had people fail at so why would they try it?

Also didn't Stadia failure teach anyone anything, streaming isn't gong to be the focus of the next Xbox, it's a side feature.
 

FrostyJ93

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Jun 19, 2019
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For those who are cheering for Lockhart, I have only one question.

Are you personally buying one? Or just like with Stadia, you are just saying "it is a good idea for other people, but I am not buying it"?

Because I want to know the number of people who are actually interested in purchasing it over Scarlet.

I'm actually thinking of buying one. I dont really need native 4k and I'm all digital now anyway. Lockhart makes more sense for me then anaconda.
 
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Otterz4Life

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Maybe we should wait for some actual news before going full retard one way or the other.

2 skus with big price discrepancies that allegedly do the same thing, except one is 2160p and the other is 1080p, sounds like a recipe for mass confusion.

I would, however, probably get the cheaper model if this rumor is true and its significantly cheaper. I haven’t bought a physical game since AC Origins and my 1080p tv still looks very nice. I suspect a lot of people would go for the cheaper model as well, as long as it plays the same games. People like to spend less money, especially on nonessential items such as games, which is a big reason why VR can’t hit the mainstream, but I digress...

If Xbox can undercut Sony, it could be a good way to keep pace throughout the gen and allow Xbox to build a stronger presence in some markets where they don’t traditionally do well.
 
Oct 16, 2017
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I would believe the people who would buy it are not the type of people to be on a gaming forum.

Thinking that way makes you wonder why anybody buys the Xbox One S or the original PS4 which still sell. Because a substantial portion of the consumer base places a high emphasis on price.

The target is that very consumer base, the person who only buys FIFA/Fortnite/COD or maybe 2-3 games a year and isn't looking to get the highest powered graphics cards or highest powered system. This consumer exists, though they are usually not vocal on forums because by definition their investment into gaming isn't substantial.
And yet, those consumers are more likely to just buy a 2nd hand Xbox 1X and cheap physical games. If being the most powerful machine doesn't matter, and most third party games being cross gen for the first two years, then there is no reason to buy Lockhart when the 1X would do just fine.

As in, you are not talking about people who have no consoles; you are talking about people who either own a Playstation or Xbox, and they have no real need to buy Lockhart because all the new games they play would still be available on their existing machines.

What are they "upgrading" for?
 

NickFire

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Mar 12, 2014
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Microsoft isn't a streaming company and you're out of your mind and completely off base.

MS is not releasing a weaker console that would disrupt the whole point of their powerful one at the same time at launch. Sorry, that's completely delusional. There is zero benefit to doing so since they need to sell hardware. They also already have a test for how such a discless console would preform on some basis with the All digital Xbox One which is a far 3rd in sales even if you launch aligned the other 2.

You are talking about some marketing fantasy land where MS is drunk and ignored all the evidence they already have about what would work.

The worst part of your claim is the implication that Scarlett would be marketed as a premium model and that the mainstream model would be lockheart which is also complete nonsense.
And some people might say that you're completely off base with your belief that MS believes they must make their most powerful console the flagship. Some of those people might even say that the PS2 (weaker than OG Xbox), Wii, and ratio of PS4 / PS4 pro sales, and Xbox One / Xbox One X sales, prove that more power does not mean #1 in sales. Some of them might also urge caution into the assumption that MS stated plans to not get beat on price must involve a plan to take massive losses.

Tonight at least, I am not one of those people. I am just a guy who respectfully disagrees that certain things are a certainty, and who sees a possible curve ball getting ready to launch. Does not mean it will launch of course.

PS - One thing is a certainty though. Your belief that MS is not a streaming company, is flat out wrong. If you'd like to be a beta tester for their streaming service, you can find more information here: https://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-game-streaming/project-xcloud
 

cryptoadam

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Feb 21, 2018
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This is probably like with the Switch where WSJ thought the Switch revision was a Pro version.

Maybe there will be 2 SKU's. There could be a discless and disc version, just throw in more HD space for discless at price parity. If people only D/L or use GamePass why not? I would trade my PS4 disc drive in exchange for more HD space.
 

vpance

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And yet, those consumers are more likely to just buy a 2nd hand Xbox 1X and cheap physical games. If being the most powerful machine doesn't matter, and most third party games being cross gen for the first two years, then there is no reason to buy Lockhart when the 1X would do just fine.

As in, you are not talking about people who have no consoles; you are talking about people who either own a Playstation or Xbox, and they have no real need to buy Lockhart because all the new games they play would still be available on their existing machines.

What are they "upgrading" for?

Target market is most likely first time console buyers rather than upgraders, who don't want to deal with used. So price concious, but not too much so. I'd say it has a small chance at making an impact only because we don't really know how people may react to $499 launch prices of Scarlett and PS5.

I think for MS the main driver in next gen is supposed to be Game Pass. If that starts to become a hit then Lockhart becomes more worthwhile.
 
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Pantz

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If Microsoft's trade-in program of physical discs for digital codes includes games that have been delisted like Forza Horizon 1 then I'd be fine with the all digital console. If not I'll stick with disc version to play those physical games that get delisted digitally.
 

Winter John

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Mar 9, 2014
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I would believe the people who would buy it are not the type of people to be on a gaming forum.

Thinking that way makes you wonder why anybody buys the Xbox One S or the original PS4 which still sell. Because a substantial portion of the consumer base places a high emphasis on price.

The target is that very consumer base, the person who only buys FIFA/Fortnite/COD or maybe 2-3 games a year and isn't looking to get the highest powered graphics cards or highest powered system. This consumer exists, though they are usually not vocal on forums because by definition their investment into gaming isn't substantial.

Yeah. You might want to rethink your beliefs. I'm the type of person who'd probably buy one. I wouldn't pay more than $300 for any console. I still got a launch PS4 I paid about $200 for.
 

quickwhips

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So if its just missing a disc drive i will buy it. If its weaker than the other console i have no need for a weaker console.
 

JohnnyFootball

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It isn't unheard of for previous games getting released on Plus/Live before a new game came out. In fact Take 2/Gearbox did an absolutely brilliant job re-releasing the original Borderlands AND putting the Handsome Collection on PS plus when Borderlands 3 was revealed. Handsome Collection was already on Gamepass at that point. They also created new DLC for BL2 and X/Pro enhanced them.

THAT is how you promote a new game coming.

I was VERY disappointed that Deep Silver didn't do something like that with Metro Redux. I was mega hoping Redux would get X/Pro enhanced to promote Exodus, but it felt like a missed opportunity.
 

Tarkus98

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If they're making a less powerful version, expect the games to be scaled to fit that.
They are already being “scaled” to work on this gens Xbox’s so hey why not throw a new gen discless console into the mix to go along with the flagship model. Makes perfuck sense.
 
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Gamernyc78

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It isn't unheard of for previous games getting released on Plus/Live before a new game came out. In fact Take 2/Gearbox did an absolutely brilliant job re-releasing the original Borderlands AND putting the Handsome Collection on PS plus when Borderlands 3 was revealed. Handsome Collection was already on Gamepass at that point. They also created new DLC for BL2 and X/Pro enhanced them.

THAT is how you promote a new game coming.

I was VERY disappointed that Deep Silver didn't do something like that with Metro Redux. I was mega hoping Redux would get X/Pro enhanced to promote Exodus, but it felt like a missed opportunity.

Nioh has had a huge influx of ppl and made me buy the rest of the dlc. It was put on plus around the time of nioh 2 beta. Great reciprocal marketing.
 
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Bodatan

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How to spot your company's strategy is working?
Take a look at the competitor fanboys' reaction to the news of your system.
If they're pissed at you because of that then your business strategy is working very well. 😎😁

Example
It's supposed to be a new generation, a new standard and already MS are undermining the progress that is supposed to be made.
Consoles always worked best when there was one SKU at launch, everyone goes in at the ground floor together. Simplifying what was to be delivered and focusing on the new high specs.

Now MS wants to drag the whole new generation down to sell a few consoles to cheap ass mothers.....

This new console should NOT be considered 'next gen'.... because it isn't!
 
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Oct 16, 2017
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How to spot your company's strategy is working?
Take a look at the competitor fanboys' reaction to the news of your system.
If they're pissed at you because of that then your business strategy is working very well. 😎😁

Example
Well good luck with that.
If you think "look! the compettiter is salty!" is a win, then I give you that win. All will be revealed in 1 year's time who is right.
 

Otterz4Life

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The low cost choice is the previous gen and cross gen games. You either offer next gen games or don't offer next gen games. And Lockhart does not offer next gen games.
It appears it will offer next gen games, as it’s much more powerful than the One X in everything but GPU. Do you have a source?
 

bitbydeath

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The 5500 matches the 4TF spec.

 

ScarletSpider

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Would love a disc-less Scarlett *AND* PS5. Haven’t bought a single physical game since 11/15/13 and there’s no need for me to start now.
 

Stuart360

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Didnt Phil (or someone) already say they dropped the idea of the low powrred 1080p model?. My guess would be that it will just be a slightly cheaper diskless digital Scarlett, for the people that want to go full digital.
 

Chromata

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Considering this is reported by Jason Schreier, there's definitely something behind this.

Sounds like Lockhart is an attempt to maintain the next gen leap in CPU/load times but with upscaling techniques. It makes sense if it has GPU performance a little better than PS4 Pro but better CPU (which is the limiting factor of X1X/PS4Pro from what I understad) and SSD.

Considering we don't have drastic disparities in architecture like from the PS3 days, I think this will be fine. Devs already develop with two SKUs in mind and in the vast majority of cases it turns out great.
 
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phil_t98

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I don't think I have used my X's disc drive ever. if they release the same console without a disc drive I am down with that
 

FranXico

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But for me, this is the only way I'd ever get an Xbox. It would be my third console after Nintendo and Sony. I'd only consider it at a cheap entry point primarily for exclusives and gamepass.
Same here. I welcome the Lockhart as a cheap option somewhere down the line. At gen start, though, I'll look at the high end machines.
 

Kagey K

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Who are these fucking idiots paying 10 or 20 more for a digital version, rather than the disk?

Im not sure where you are and I can only speak anecdotally from where I am, but at launch digital and retail are usually the same price except for the occasional game that offers a preorder discount (on digital).

When the games go on sale they still usually sit within the same price range digital or physical. With Gamepass the price of some digital games becomes much cheaper then retail and that’s not starting to get into some of bonuses digital is starting to get you. (Multiple people playing off your version at the same time, free PC copy, Xcloud streaming in the future)

The ROI of retail is getting smaller, while the advantages of digital keep growing.
 
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Shmunter

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I'm one of em, because I can install the game on both my son's PS4 as well as mine.
Saves me money as I don't have to buy a game twice. 😉
Can u tell me how that works, can you all be playing the game at the same time?
 

MilkyJoe

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Im not sure where you are and I can only speak anecdotally from where I am, but at launch digital and retail are usually the same price except for the occasional game that offers a preorder discount (on digital).

When the games go on sale they still usually sit within the same price range digital or physical. With Gamepass the price of some digital games becomes much cheaper then retail and that’s not starting to get into some of bonuses digital is starting to get you. (Multiple people playing off your version at the same time, free PC copy, Xcloud streaming in the future)

The ROI of retail is getting smaller, while the advantages of digital keep growing.

Jedi Fallen Order has just come out, it's 49 on amazon and 59 on the store
 

Psykodad

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Can u tell me how that works, can you all be playing the game at the same time?
Yes, but my son's PS4 needs to be the main console. That way, he can play my games and use my PS+ sub while logged in on his own account.

I can just use my own account on my own PS4, but because my PS4 isn't the main console, no other accounts on my PS4 can use my licenses or PS+ sub.

It won't work for more PS4 than two though, unless you can register multiple PS4s to your main account. But not aure about that.
 
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Kagey K

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Jedi Fallen Order has just come out, it's 49 on amazon and 59 on the store
It shows as 10% off for me because I have EA Access, but retail and digital don’t always go on sale at the same time. Next week when it’s on sale for the game awards check back.