Captain Europe
Member
Love Nintendo's games, but this is the dumbest thing ever. There's no reason for it and they're only shooting themselves in the foot.
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Kotaku: Creator of Super Mario Hacks gets hit hard by Nintendo's Youtube Policies.
- Thread starter BY2K
- Start date
Arthr2ShdsJcksn
Banned
Nintendo is a jerk-faced company for taking down the vids. These vids serve as good promotion, as well as foster a thriving community.
People who expect they should get paid for creating content based on other people's properties are delusional. Yes, they work hard and some are very talented, but just because they found a niche and were able to exploit it for awhile doesn't mean that they continuously deserve to make money off the work of others.
Solution: split the money? I don't know. I just hate the whole mess. Can we just warp ahead to a Star Trek utopia where there is no money involved and people just focus on self-fulfillment?
People who expect they should get paid for creating content based on other people's properties are delusional. Yes, they work hard and some are very talented, but just because they found a niche and were able to exploit it for awhile doesn't mean that they continuously deserve to make money off the work of others.
Solution: split the money? I don't know. I just hate the whole mess. Can we just warp ahead to a Star Trek utopia where there is no money involved and people just focus on self-fulfillment?
I think that is more on the Pokemon Company rather then Nintendo.
If it's about hacks not sure how it serves as a promotion, perhaps it does but I'm not sure.
I'm really pessimistic about that, and seeing the two sides of this I think we keep getting farther away from that.
The problem with that is what happens if they lose? There doesn't seem to be much certainity about the results of that.
Makes sense. Mario Maker is coming out, and Nintendo doesn't want people publicizing other ways of playing custom levels that could hurt sales. Unfortunate for the youtubers but that's a risk you take building a channel around stuff that's in a grey area and could be legitimately shut down.
The12thGripper
Member
yay nintendo
TheSlySoul
Member
Yeah, we debated this before and I agree. I would say goodwill lost is probably worse than any profits saved, but I am not them...
I agree 100%. Some people feel like they are entitled to make money off of someone else's intellectual property. Most companies don't care that much but they have the right to stop those videos.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Nintendo would take down this thread too if they could.
I dont think they should go after youtube vids either. For the sake of playing devils advocate; here's the scenario I thought off in my head as to why Nintendo might do something like this.
"So, what if someone puts a rom hack out there that fills a Mario level with tons of Goombas in the shape of a giant penis or replaces text boxes with racist dialogue. What if some parent sees that on YouTube and thinks it's from an online level in Mario Maker that we simply haven't taken down? What if they start some negative PR campaign against us due to a misunderstanding like that?"
With the way social media reacts (and sometimes overreacts) to things I could kind of see this being a scenario. Again this is just something I thought up off from the top of my head for the sake of discussion.
Arthr2ShdsJcksn
Banned
If nothing else, it keeps the game in the public eye when there are plenty of other distractions out there.
Without any sort of compromise, I'd wager that Nintendo just wins then. It's a clear copyright violation, unless the video falls under some fair use (criticism/reviews, parody.. whatever else.. again, I don't really know the letter of the law).
What? You think that nintendo actually think? That has lawyers and marketing teams? Your crazy...
Not that I agree with this thing but it seems people in here think that this sort of decisions gets done in meetings of 3 minutes.
7DollarHagane
Banned
Well, they aren't in the wrong.
It may be dumb but its in their rights to do this. You cant guarantee any income or right to videos that use other peoples content without their consent.
It may be dumb but its in their rights to do this. You cant guarantee any income or right to videos that use other peoples content without their consent.
It's not just Super Mario Maker sales - it affects all their virtual console sales.
Think about this scenario: little johnny owns a Wii U and finds out about the virtual console concept. He thinks to himself, WOW great I can play all these old games that you can't buy in stores anymore, I should really pick up on that.
Later that afternoon he's browsing YouTube and comes across a video with 1+ million views where a guy is playing Super Mario World on an emulator. Johnny looks into the concept of emulation, in turn finds out about ROMs and how you can get them.
Obviously, Johnny isn't going to buy the virtual console games now.
Seriously, think about how many people saw that video, there's a good chance there were a decent number of viewers who didn't know about the concept of emulation. Whether or not emulation is right or wrong is another subject, the point is a lot of it is entirely illegal and ultimately promotes piracy. Honestly that could also lead to more piracy of their modern games as well, let alone just their old ones.
The thing is, when it comes to YouTubers like this, they should really realize what they're getting into is a very shady area especially when you're trying to profit from it. You have to realize that this kind of thing absolutely can happen, so it's ultimately hard to sympathize with it, because it's just the risk you take if that's your way of content creation.
Think about this scenario: little johnny owns a Wii U and finds out about the virtual console concept. He thinks to himself, WOW great I can play all these old games that you can't buy in stores anymore, I should really pick up on that.
Later that afternoon he's browsing YouTube and comes across a video with 1+ million views where a guy is playing Super Mario World on an emulator. Johnny looks into the concept of emulation, in turn finds out about ROMs and how you can get them.
Obviously, Johnny isn't going to buy the virtual console games now.
Seriously, think about how many people saw that video, there's a good chance there were a decent number of viewers who didn't know about the concept of emulation. Whether or not emulation is right or wrong is another subject, the point is a lot of it is entirely illegal and ultimately promotes piracy. Honestly that could also lead to more piracy of their modern games as well, let alone just their old ones.
The thing is, when it comes to YouTubers like this, they should really realize what they're getting into is a very shady area especially when you're trying to profit from it. You have to realize that this kind of thing absolutely can happen, so it's ultimately hard to sympathize with it, because it's just the risk you take if that's your way of content creation.
Yeah, but not sure if that does anything for Nintendo's bottom line in the end.
Yeah there is, but perhaps they shouldn't do it, that's the issue.
Gentleman Jack
Member
Poe's Law is messin with my head.
CrunchyFrog
Member
Do people think we might ever see a case on this brought up to the courts? There aren't too many YT players big enough yet I think to be able to shoulder a huge legal burden, much less be willing to go through the effort, but I do wonder if stuff like this comes to a head as monetization of videos becomes more and more of a livelihood for people. Genuinely curious, how does this not fall under fair use? Precedent has been set for "transformative" works and TAS'ing sure seems to fall under that umbrella.
blackMamba1187
Member
Really, really stupid, as has been stated. Keep fighting the good fight Nintendo.
Aaronrules380
Member
There's really no legal action you can take right now, since Nintendo is getting youtube to shut it down, not taking it to court directly. And even if it did, I doubt the youtubers would actually win
cloudstrife
Member
Yes. That's exactly it.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
pretty embarrassing for them to get on their high horse about speed runs being evil when they just had a gaming competition where half the competitors they invited and used for free advertising were professional speed runners. Totally and utterly vacuous legal baloney.
It would have to take a backing by Youtube. I would be interested to see how the courts rule.
Aaronrules380
Member
Vast majority of these are done on emulators. How much time they spend playing the game is meaningless when you aren't encouraging people to actually buy Nintendo products. And I really have doubts thatt hese mods helped sell games to be honest. They got a lot of views, but how many made people actually decide to buy a game if they hadn't already?
My God, Apple and Nintendo really are one and the same!
zephervack
Member
Why go after players instead of people distributing Roms, makes no sense, even if these players are writing emulator code, that doesn't mean they are pirates. This is awful.
Don't give them ideas. Otherwise we'll have 98$ stylus prices.
That competition wasn't using tool-assisted games. Nintendo is protecting themselves by taking down videos that misrepresent their intellectual property.
stufte
Member
Sometimes it's more important to foster fan excitement and engagement than it is to sell a 3 dollar VC version of the game. But Nintendo lawyers don't understand that.
Tezzeractor
Member
I think they're doing both. I know Coolrom pulled all of their Nintendo stuff down after they were told to, just recently.
Aaronrules380
Member
Because that's amuch more hopeless endeavor to be honest. There's a certain logic: If I can't stop people from making roms, I can at least reduce their visibility.
And on another note, I don't really think this was necessary of Nintendo by any means. I just feel the community tends to go overboard on anything like this
That's just one of the things that could go wrong, another couple of things include:
-Confused kids/parents who mistake rom hacks for SMM and ends in returns when they realize their mistake
-People who figure "why would i pay full price for SMM when i can download lunar magic for free?" and it impacts in SMM sales.
I mean, come on guys, yes it's a dick move for the community, but don't pretend all of these things don't have legal repercursions and in the end nintendo has to protect their assets, it sucks but we all know that's how it works, legality of rom hacks is questionable and people profiting from their youtube characters with them were lucky they lasted as long as they did.
Thebeardofknowledge
Banned
Nintendo you dun fucked up
Aaronrules380
Member
What does that mean? And please, explain: What benefit to Nintendo does gain from that if they don't sell more copies of their stuff than they would otherwise. Nintendo is a business, not a charity.
And speed runners spending thousands of hours on one game hurts in another way: If they're spending that much time on an old game, are they actually buying new games?
Again, Nintendo is a business. It's ridiculous to think they'll put anything ahead of the bottom line
Azure Dream
Member
...Yeah, we don't pat Sega on the back when it comes to YouTube. At one point Sega's Japanese side was slamming down tons of videos of older Shining titles, because there was a new Shining game with a similar name to an old one coming out, and they thought this would be a great way to boost their search ratings for it.
Sega of America apologized, swore it was going to stop.
Then the Japanese side went right back at it again.
There was also another Sega game they went viciously after, but I can't recall what it was.
TheBaldEmperor
Member
Well, Mario doesn't owe his success to youtube or streamers.
Till that happens they're at the mercy of their host which is Youtube.
Youtube isn't gunning for them so they have to beg copyright holders to have mercy on them.
Youtube is shit but it's not new at this point.
Mario needs all the help he can get in this day and age.
Honestly targeting such a niche group of players is a waste of time and will only rile up your more moderate fanbase, so I have no idea what Nintendo gains from this.
Gentleman Jack
Member
What?
Especially a 20 year old game.
Aaronrules380
Member
Yeah, lets be honest, the games that are really affected that much are small indie games with little to no advertising from obscure studios. With large games like Nintendo's, this won't change anything. There's already awareness generally, and they already have a large enough fan base that a lot of youtubers will cover their stuff regardless of their policies
Aaronrules380
Member
Seems pretty straight forward. People who devote shitloads of time to one old game have way less time and need to spend lots of money on new games. Even if they still buy new games, they're likely to buy less if there focus is the one game they run
Gentleman Jack
Member
How does that hurt nintendo?