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Killzone Shadow Fall (PS4) announced, launch title [1080p/30fps]

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Gemüsepizza

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Nov 30, 2011
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I don't think such a small screenshot with horrible compression is indicative of the final game and can show how "hard" it is to identify enemies etc.
 
Aug 29, 2009
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Gemüsepizza;61861121 said:
I don't think such a small screenshot with horrible compression is sufficient to prove your point.

then even take this image.


look at how obstructed the barrel of the gun is. You could be using the distinct shape of the weapon to help inform the player, much like how tf2 uses the various character silhouette, but instead you're needlessly limiting the information you're giving to the player. This type of post processing is so unresolved for game design.
 

Dictator93

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Jun 29, 2011
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then even take this image.



look at how obstructed the barrel of the gun is. You could be using the distinct shape of the weapon to help inform the player, much like how tf2 uses the various character silhouette, but instead you're needlessly limiting the information you're giving to the player.

uh... you may want to judge from actual gameplay and not some random screenshot of a character model shooting.

I will not deny that games sometimes have problems with an over abundance of visual effects.. but you are judging this on very bad screenshots or non-proven things.
 
Aug 29, 2009
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If it has red glowing eyes, you shoot it.


I really don't see any issue.

Also, good lord that gun model is insane.

I see 3, how many do you see? But that defeats the point, what type of enemy should i focus on first, who is my biggest priority, how do I know what weapon they have. These things are resolved in games through visuals, but when you remove the visual information with garbage effects, it doesn't let players be decision makers, or play to their own style. It forces you to "shoot at the red glowy eyes", and what happens when you add start to "red glowy effects" and "red glowy particles"?

uh... you may want to judge from actual gameplay and not some random screenshot of a character model shooting.

I will not deny that games sometimes have problems with an over abundance of visual effects.. but you are judging this on very bad screenshots or non-proven things.

I'm not judging the game, I'm judging the practice in general across the board. Killzone is not in a vaccum, games like BF, COD and Crysis suffer worse from these issues.
 
Nov 15, 2011
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If it has red glowing eyes, you shoot it.


I really don't see any issue.

Also, good lord that gun model is insane.

This. For me Crysis 2/3 have been the benchmark for weapon model/texturing and when I saw the KZ:SF 1080p video, I was amazed that they (in my opinion) matched that. can't wait for this.
 

Radec

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Sep 2, 2010
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then even take this image.



look at how obstructed the barrel of the gun is. You could be using the distinct shape of the weapon to help inform the player, much like how tf2 uses the various character silhouette, but instead you're needlessly limiting the information you're giving to the player. This type of post processing is so unresolved for game design.

damn, you can imagine the first person view just by looking at that picture.

:O
 
Sep 4, 2009
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Hey, is this game still locked at 30 FPS? I heard they made that choice before they knew about the four extra gigs of RAM. And before anyone bites my head off, I have no idea what RAM does, so maybe it wouldnt help with the FPS anyways.
 

Zen

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Jun 24, 2005
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The game opts for differing enemy types having consistent weapon loadouts, instead of making the shape glaringly distinct.
 
May 16, 2006
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I see 3, how many do you see? But that defeats the point, what type of enemy should i focus on first, who is my biggest priority, how do I know what weapon they have. These things are resolved in games through visuals, but when you remove the visual information with garbage effects, it doesn't let players be decision makers, or play to their own style. It forces you to "shoot at the red glowy eyes", and what happens when you add start to "red glowy effects" and "red glowy particles"?

When they shoot, you can tell what kind of gun he has by the signature muzzle flash effect of the round leaving the gun and the way it flies through the air...ironically, the thing you are basically complaining about.
 

rdrr gnr

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Aug 18, 2010
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Hey, is this game still locked at 30 FPS? I heard they made that choice before they knew about the four extra gigs of RAM. And before anyone bites my head off, I have no idea what RAM does, so maybe it wouldnt help with the FPS anyways.
It wouldn't. It'll be 30.
 

spwolf

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Feb 15, 2007
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then even take this image.



look at how obstructed the barrel of the gun is. You could be using the distinct shape of the weapon to help inform the player, much like how tf2 uses the various character silhouette, but instead you're needlessly limiting the information you're giving to the player. This type of post processing is so unresolved for game design.

they should put a big number over their head, indicating priority for you...
 

benny_a

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Apr 25, 2009
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Hey, is this game still locked at 30 FPS? I heard they made that choice before they knew about the four extra gigs of RAM. And before anyone bites my head off, I have no idea what RAM does, so maybe it wouldnt help with the FPS anyways.
It will be 30 FPS. RAM doesn't allow you draw stuff faster.
 

Gun Animal

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Jan 22, 2013
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I don't mind a 30fps lock if it's stable. When I play on PC I lock any games I can on 30fps (or 60fps on low settings) just to ensure that the framerate never dips, even when a lot of crazy shit is going on.

However if the framerate is locked at 30fps and still fluctuating like crazy I'm gonna be mad.
 

SneakyStephan

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Jan 23, 2011
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while I agree that graphical effects add to the atmosphere, there's a point at which the artist and designers need to understand that less but better might be the more appropriate approach. You can create chaos through a vareiety of different ways, you shouldn't be hampering the gameplay for graphics.




In the screen I posted you can you easily and readily tell the difference between the person shooting at you, your priority targets, and how best to neutralize them? If not, then what did you think the developer added to ensure that players dont become overly fustrated? These cinematic effects are a key component in the rise of poor game design like handholding and qte's because they create visual garbage that interferes with the gameplay. The more fustrating the game (key is fustration and not difficulty), the less immersive and atmospheric the game. The same goes for things like cheap or shody AI.

the reality is that these effects, like dof, bloom, flares, glares, etc, they take you out of the immersive gaming enviroment by creating a needless game design issues. While it looks incredible, you're not going to be stopping in the middle of a firefight to notice how nice everything looks, you're going to do that after, and there's really a great opportunity for the designers to reward the player with a beautiful vista.

Halo 4 has many good examples of how adding cinematic visual effects that do nothing but hamper the end experience. They make the jackals sniping you invisible from the suns lensflare, they make the head less visible and harder to hit, and they take away from the beautiful level and enemy designs of the others who worked hard on the game. Or how about the dirty goggles in BF3, who keeps their gear in such bad condition, how does the inability to see what you're doing in a game make it more immersive or better?

These effects are the new bloom of the console era, and they're creating more and more gaming issues then ever.
Everything you said.
Contrast between enemy and background is FPS design 101... ask valve or ID
That's the biggest problem I have with modern shooters and why I can't enjoy battlefield 3 etc, it's a visual mess that really harms the gameplay.
I have 20/20 vision and a crt monitor (so no scaling or motion blur, ideal conditions for gaming better than most people have) and I have to FIGHT the frigging game to be able to see enemies.
 

drexplora

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Feb 7, 2011
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Everything you said.
Contrast between enemy and background is FPS design 101... ask valve or ID
That's the biggest problem I have with modern shooters and why I can't enjoy battlefield 3 etc, it's a visual mess that really harms the gameplay.
I have 20/20 vision and a crt monitor (so no scaling or motion blur, ideal conditions for gaming better than most people have) and I have to FIGHT the frigging game to be able to see enemies.

first thing I noticed about BF3 and kind of a turn off.
You literally have to fight your eyes to find these enemies that seem to blend so well to their backgrounds, that + the dirt usually onscreen, + the worst mini map/map system in Battlefield history make BF3 a very disorienting game.

I now get exactly what my friend means when he sais certain games like BF3 are too HD.
Might not be the best term to use but he is essentially describing an inherent flaw in a lot of these current/next gen games.

I guess its a decent time to be a new gamer but a bad time for old school gamers.

Think the problem is that our consoles and pc's don't nearly have enough power to pull off a the realistic/photorealistic art style, and all of the tricks in place to give the impression of photo realism actually detract from the end picture and totally kills any immersion which is something I haven't felt as much these past 2 generations.

Hopefully these new consoles can mitigate these issues.
Hoping new levels of physics and interaction give us something to keep our eyes occupied and "in" the game.
 

Coolwhip

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Mar 28, 2011
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It sucks the game isn't 60 fps. But I'm sure it will look mighty impressive, especially because of 1080p.

What I wonder though, is it realistic to expect 60fps for a game like this 2 years down the line on PS4?
 

monome

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Mar 19, 2010
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Everything you said.
Contrast between enemy and background is FPS design 101... ask valve or ID
That's the biggest problem I have with modern shooters and why I can't enjoy battlefield 3 etc, it's a visual mess that really harms the gameplay.
I have 20/20 vision and a crt monitor (so no scaling or motion blur, ideal conditions for gaming better than most people have) and I have to FIGHT the frigging game to be able to see enemies.

yep.

I play both COD and Battlefield, yet Halo wins, if only because I see much better whom I shoot at.
 

demolitio

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Dec 5, 2008
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Only 30fps! Lol omg xbone is so bad.... Oh.

Glad you came in here to satisfy your trolling needs. Or maybe you just got lost using MS Netherlands' PR picture and thought KZ actually was an Xbox game for a bit. :p

I'm excited to see the detail and animations on the rifles in this considering how good previous games have been in that area. Just like it was engrained in basic training, attention to detail is key and GG seems to believe that as well.
 

sonic moob

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May 27, 2013
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It sucks the game isn't 60 fps. But I'm sure it will look mighty impressive, especially because of 1080p.

What I wonder though, is it realistic to expect 60fps for a game like this 2 years down the line on PS4?

I'd bet that 2 years in they could do the same game at 60fps, but what will mostly likely happen is they will go for even better graphics at the same fps, like they did this gen. Or will they think that the graphics have reached a point where they are good enough?
 

Mikey Jr.

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Dec 5, 2008
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Only 30fps! Lol omg xbone is so bad.... Oh.

You are buying "the One and only the One", so why do you care? Please let us "sheep" converse in peace, thank you.

So guys, will SF MP be closer to Killzone 3 or Killzone 2?

I think it will be even past KZ3 in my opinion. They want to chase that early COD dollar at launch, so I don't have high hopes for KZ2 style.
 

stryke

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Oct 1, 2011
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So guys, will SF MP be closer to Killzone 3 or Killzone 2?

I think it will be even past KZ3 in my opinion. They want to chase that early COD dollar at launch, so I don't have high hopes for KZ2 style.

I know it's been stated a lot, but they did get their KZ2 MP Director(?) to come back for this game. Hopefully, they'll listen to him.
 

Zen

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Jun 24, 2005
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Yeah Killzone 3 ended up looking like aliased high contrast mess in practice, it looks good in those screeens though, but that's sure not how it looked on my TV.
 

adelante

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Dec 28, 2005
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In-game and taken from the build they demoed at the PS4 event.


Random KZ3 shots:







Can't wait to abuse the screenshot function with Shadow Fall.
Whether its due to the capabiities of the PS4, or a deliberate visual choice, I'm so freakin glad they've done away with the cross-processed, high contrast look.
 

flipswitch

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Jul 12, 2005
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Yeah Killzone 3 ended up looking like aliased high contrast mess in practice, it looks good in those screeens though, but that's sure not how it looked on my TV.


MLAA looks better in screenshots than in actual gameplay. On the plus side it was much sharper than KZ2, but I found that KZ2 jaggies were less noticeable.
 

spyshagg

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May 13, 2006
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Honestly, its crap.





The guy is wearing belts.





There are black round things attached randomly throughout the clothing.





I believe there are very talented people at GG. I've seen the art. But the guy allowing this crap pass through needs a vacation or join forces with Rob Liefield




 

M°°nblade

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Jul 30, 2007
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Honestly, its crap.


The guy is wearing belts.


There are black round things attached randomly throughout the clothing.


I believe there are very talented people at GG. I've seen the art. But the guy allowing this crap pass through needs a vacation or join forces with Rob Liefield

It doesn't look randomly. It look like stealth camouflage nodes covering the entire body. Was already mentioned I think.
 

Zen

Banned
Jun 24, 2005
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MLAA looks better in screenshots than in actual gameplay. On the plus side it was much sharper than KZ2, but I found that KZ2 jaggies were less noticeable.

The 2xQaa worked with the game incredibly well considering it was a moody shadowy game. The softer look that comes with it just aided the overall visuals. Killzone 3 was so sharp in comparison that the game actually looked better when you decimated your TV level sharpness. It was just odd, how sharp and high contrast they made Killzone 3.
 

rdrr gnr

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Aug 18, 2010
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I didn't think the MLAA implementation in KZ3 was too bad. I'm interested to see their 1st party solution. I generally don't have a problem with post-process AA. But I don't remember KZ2's set up too well. The only title I felt suffered from its new AA implementation was U3's FXAA.
 
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