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[IDappa]

Naw dude, your head is he one in the sand. everything he said was pretty accurate. Time will tell what Xbox fate is, but if they can't get some nice sales from the $350 discount and outsell PS5 even a little, then they're in trouble. There is no evidence that Starfield moved the needle in any meaningful way.

And yes, Starfield is a good 7/10 game. That's how most people see it.

Yes his speculation was very accurate.

People seem to forget fallout 76 or Wolfenstein and what Bethesda was looking like before they were bought.

 

[Crayon]

Not that I neccesarily believe they are leaving consoles, but imo they would be better served right now with people seeing the xgs splash on more quality games than they would be trying to sell the console so hard. This gen is more or less over for them, and games they release are essentially pc games now. If they can reestablish themselves as a place that makes good games, then they can compete better in the future. In that way, releasing for ps could help in the long run.

I highly doubt they will see it that way, though. Even if they dip out of consoles, I still don't think they would publish on playstation. Playstation is a console but it is also a competing gaming network which includes streaming.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I’m way more concerned with the actual game. Arkane is coming off 2 stinkers. Before that they were top tier devs. Can they pull off an M rated Blade game? Will it be an immersive sim? Will it be an Arkham City ripoff?

Of course, the discourse here is just more console wars autism.

 

[pasterpl]

The CFO at Microsoft told us in plain language that they plan to go third party. Xbox fans still haven’t reached the acceptance stage I guess.

Then day later CEO clarified that they are not planning going 3rd party. Some people simply have ability to process only selected information.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Blade, though. Anyone *genuinely* excited by fucking Blade in this day and age?

And by the Dishonored people at that. Just give me Dishonored ffs.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Xbox, meanwhile, never ever delays games.

Except of course, for the two Bethesda games you are talking about, and other games this gen (Halo, Forza, etc). But let’s not allow facts to get in the way. Yes yes, if not for MS, Redfall would have been delayed again and would have launched in a great shape. Just ask the devs who didn’t even want to make the game. Not going to bother with the Starfield stuff, you talk like it’s a 4/10 game or something

I'm not saying Xbox won't delay a game. I'm saying that they were forced into releasing games that they knew weren't ready/finished because they needed content for GamePass and Xbox.

You hear 4/10 when I never said anything to that extent, that's your own bias fueling that.

Bethesda was looking to make billions of dollars off this game. I'm confident that if they weren't tied to Xbox, they would have delayed the game until they were confident it would deliver in the 90s. Especially if it was going to release across platforms (i.e. including PlayStation).

It is no coincidence that this game came out in September and that they tried to shield the game from certain publications. They knew it wasn't ready and what initially looked like a high 80s turned into a low 80s.

My guess is untethered by Xbox, they probably would have dropped XSS support for this as well like Larian tried to do. Going to be so interesting to see GTA6 on XSS.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Then day later CEO clarified that they are not planning going 3rd party. Some people simply have ability to process only selected information.

Lol yeah sure, let's put the blame on everyone except the flip flopping company

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Then day later CEO clarified that they are not planning going 3rd party. Some people simply have ability to process only selected information.

The irony of this.

First he didn't say anything about not going 3rd party, he just said gamepass wasn't coming to playstation and nintendo, which it isn't. Though they want it there.

He came out the next day to do damage control because an implosion of Xbox sales doesn't exactly help him.

The fact that Tim Stuart went rogue is potentially him angling to replace Spencer. It was clear as day what he was saying and it is clear as day that Phil was damage-controlling. Can you not be selective and try to explain what Stuart was saying?

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I agree. There was much more optimism about Xbox consoles early on this gen and many were expecting this to be a much more even race than last gen. Still, a risky move by Disney and one they may end up regretting, a la Titanfall.




According to?

I agree with this. I was very optimistic when the XSX was announced and even initially supported the Bethesda acquisition as I...incorrectly...took it as a sign that MS was really getting serious about making the Xbox an attractive platform. I had hoped that it meant Bethesda would put out the long requested New Vegas/Fallout 3 remasters, we'd get more Doom games. But...no. All MS has to show from that is Redfall and Starfield. One of those was ass awful and the other, while decent hasn't moved the needle in any way.

On Day 1, MS should have hired a young studio to port New Vegas/Fallout 3 to get them on Gamepass pretty quickly (but correctly), have that out in a year. It didn't need to be rebuilt just stable with higher rez textures and mod support. Done. Have a smaller less experience studio work on another Doom Eternal game that is very safe but still fun, while ID works on the mainline game. Have another smaller studio work on a new Fallout game, while Bethesda does the mainline Fallout 5...there were just sooooo many low hanging fruit options. People have been asking for things like a Marcus Fenix collection for years. No where in sight. But yet, we get these bullshit "MS wants these studios to be indepedent" Fuck that. Crack the whip, like Sony is fixing to do with Bungie. MS has proven that money doesn't solve management structural issues, they just make them worse. If MS someone does get their shit in order, I will absolutely be supporting them. Right now, my Support for Xbox is limited to being on Gamepass until my subscription expires in 2025. Who knows where things will be.

it really boggles my mind how anyone can have any faith that Xbox will deliver on all these games. They simply have no track record for doing so. Starfield is a very small step in the right direction, but it's only shown to be a small step when MS needed it to move the needle.

 

[pasterpl]

Not that I neccesarily believe they are leaving consoles, but imo they would be better served right now with people seeing the xgs splash on more quality games than they would be trying to sell the console so hard.

in what way outside discounts they are ‘so hard” trying to sell console? I have seen way more promos, ads for switch and playstation here in the UK during last 3-4 months.
btw. They have released more quality games this year than Sony did. Should Sony go third party because of that?

This gen is more or less over for them, and games they release are essentially pc games now.

Yeah, they are profitable, just acquired the biggest publisher in the world. Got more than dozen games in development that we know about, sold at least 25M consoles in first half of generation, but it is over for them. Please never run any business.

If they can reestablish themselves as a place that makes good games, then they can compete better in the future. In that way, releasing for ps could help in the long run.

they released lots of good, great and amazing games since start of this gen, but you cannot see them because of childish fanboysm

I highly doubt they will see it that way, though. Even if they dip out of consoles, I still don't think they would publish on playstation. Playstation is a console but it is also a competing gaming network which includes streaming.

And wrong again, it might be situation like MLB and Sony, contractual agreement about release platforms with Marvel/Disney.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

The irony of this.

First he didn't say anything about not going 3rd party, he just said gamepass wasn't coming to playstation and nintendo, which it isn't. Though they want it there.

He came out the next day to do damage control because an implosion of Xbox sales doesn't exactly help him.

The fact that Tim Stuart went rogue is potentially him angling to replace Spencer. It was clear as day what he was saying and it is clear as day that Phil was damage-controlling. Can you not be selective and try to explain what Stuart was saying?

Yea, if you listen to everything the CFO said, there was zero mistaking what he was saying. The only questionable thing was if there would still be xbox consoles or not. He never said they'd quit with hardware., but yea they clearly plan to put their games on every screen, even if it has nothing to do with gamepass.

 

[pasterpl]

The irony of this.

First he didn't say anything about not going 3rd party, he just said gamepass wasn't coming to playstation and nintendo, which it isn't. Though they want it there.

He came out the next day to do damage control because an implosion of Xbox sales doesn't exactly help him.

The fact that Tim Stuart went rogue is potentially him angling to replace Spencer. It was clear as day what he was saying and it is clear as day that Phil was damage-controlling. Can you not be selective and try to explain what Stuart was saying?

I am not being selective, I know that Stuart reports to Phil and he is CFO and not final decision maker - which is CEO - Phil, thats the current org chart at least. I don’t need to explain what Tim was saying, Phil already did clarify this. I don’t have any decision making power at Xbox, so it is pointless me explaining it. You obviously got your own fanboy (sorry cannot find better word to describe it without being offensive) interpretation and you will go with it. Good for you.

 

[Del_X]

it is compared to consoles. Consoles are dedicated gaming hardware. I doubt most PC owners have a computer that is capable to even run modern demanding games

It's not. Steam has like 120m monthly users with something like 45 million having an RTX 3000 or 4000. That's better than the Xbox Series install base.

 

[Withnail]

Then day later CEO clarified that they are not planning going 3rd party. Some people simply have ability to process only selected information.

No he didn’t, he said there were no plans to put Gamepass on PlayStation, which is a different thing. Only processing selected information indeed.

 

[FrankWza]

This isn’t accurate. MLB did force Sony to make the franchise multiplat, it was part of their last license agreement. It was out of Sonys hands. Do you think Sony would ever allow a game they made that they sell for $70 to be on Xbox GamePass day one? Also, other companies can and do make MLB games, it’s not some exclusive license situation.

You’re at least right that it’s not a 1:1 comparison. Also, whenever their current deal is up, I’d expect Sony to stipulate that the Xbox ports can’t launch on GamePass.

You're wrong.

 

[Flutta]

Man, no offense but your head is deep in the sand. Redfall without MS intervening and delaying it not only would have launched sooner than it did, but it would have launched with microtransactions and deep GaaS elements. MS delaying it made it a better game, even if the end result was still a turd.

No, your head is deeper in the sand....

Wtf does this even mean man??? Better game = turd ? The mental gymnastic is on another level. JUST SAY IT'S A BAD GAME.. don't worry your overloards won't hate you even they now it's a turd. Sheeeeeesh

Anyways... I believe MS is still negotiating an exclusive deal here just that the asking price is higher then what they want to pay. It gets harder and harder for them to make deals because of the userbase split that is in favour of PS5. W'll see in the end if it becomes full exclusive or not. My bet is that it will become full exclusive or at least timed.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Why would they still be negotiating a deal? They are actively working on the game. The deal is done, whatever it is.

What influence does the FTC have at this point?

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

You and Sony are wrong. I know more about Sony contracts than Sony.

Fixed that for you. Impressive.

No, your head is deeper in the sand....

Wtf does this even mean man??? Better game = turd ? The mental gymnastic is on another level. JUST SAY IT'S A BAD GAME.. don't worry your overloards won't hate you even they now it's a turd. Sheeeeeesh

Anyways... I believe MS is still negotiating an exclusive deal here just that the asking price is higher then what they want to pay. It gets harder and harder for them to make deals because of the userbase split that is in favour of PS5. W'll see in the end if it becomes full exclusive or not. My bet is that it will become full exclusive or at least timed.

I said the game is a turd and you’re whining because I didn’t say the game is bad? The games a turd. Please let me know why you’re upset.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Why would they still be negotiating a deal? They are actively working on the game. The deal is done, whatever it is.

What influence does the FTC have at this point?

Why would the FTC have any influence or care about this? If the game were exclusive (console wise), which I still think it isn’t, couldn’t MS just point to Spider-Man and Wolverine?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Why would the FTC have any influence or care about this? If the game were exclusive (console wise), which I still think it isn’t, couldn’t MS just point to Spider-Man and Wolverine?

Someone speculated that the reason platforms werent announced yet was due to the FTC....maybe there is something strange where they need FTC approval to make a game exclusive like this?

I dunno. If MS wants to make it exclusive there shouldn't be any resistance from the FTC but maybe they are just being cautious.

My expectation is that it will be exclusive, but I think Microsoft doing exclusive things only hurts them in the long term and they really need to re-think their strategy there.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Yea, if you listen to everything the CFO said, there was zero mistaking what he was saying. The only questionable thing was if there would still be xbox consoles or not. He never said they'd quit with hardware., but yea they clearly plan to put their games on every screen, even if it has nothing to do with gamepass.

If first party xbox games end up on playstation and switch, there is ZERO resason to buy an xbox. You can't sustain yourself as a console platform with absolutely no exclusives.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

If first party xbox games end up on playstation and switch, there is ZERO resason to buy an xbox. You can't sustain yourself as a console platform with absolutely no exclusives.

I think what happens could be somewhere inbetween ditching console hardware and staying as is, I think they might outsource and have someone like alienware make xbox licensed media PCs each gen and a streaming puck.
Then you could have a partnership version of GamePass that only has their first party games, which Sony and Nintendo would probably allow on their platforms since having only 1st party games wouldn't compete with their store or service.
Then the selling point of Xbox is to have a licensed media pc that can do more than consoles and has the full version of GamePass with the 2nd/3rd party deals.

 

[twilo99]

Blade, though. Anyone *genuinely* excited by fucking Blade in this day and age?

And by the Dishonored people at that. Just give me Dishonored ffs.

Same teenagers who get excited about the spider thing

 

[twilo99]

You can't sustain yourself as a console platform with absolutely no exclusives.

I wouldn't be so sure

 

[FrankWza]

Fixed that for you. Impressive.

Has nothing to do with knowing contracts. They have been in place for 20 years. You're also saying that Sony announced that they were forced to go multiplat. You're wrong about that too

Sony, after the first Xbox port was announced.

I know it's like a point of chest beating but this great coup about The Show being on GP is imaginary. They doubled their sales when they went multiplat. So a bunch of people conditioned to not buy games still bought The Show.

 

[Sanepar]

Then day later CEO clarified that they are not planning going 3rd party. Some people simply have ability to process only selected information.

Phil Spencer is a clown full of lies

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Has nothing to do with knowing contracts. They have been in place for 20 years. You're also saying that Sony announced that they were forced to go multiplat. You're wrong about that too

I know it's like a point of chest beating but this great coup about The Show being on GP is imaginary. They doubled their sales when they went multiplat. So a bunch of people conditioned to not buy games still bought The Show.

Yikes @ chest beating stuff. Is this what console warz does to the mind?

I said after the Xbox port was announced because that’s when people started asking Sony about it and that’s when Sony told people it was part of the language MLB put into the new contract for the license.

But hey maybe you’re right and Sony was wrong, they just misread the contract or something

Chest beating great coup Jesus Christ.

 

[Astray]

The fact that Tim Stuart went rogue is potentially him angling to replace Spencer. It was clear as day what he was saying and it is clear as day that Phil was damage-controlling. Can you not be selective and try to explain what Stuart was saying?

Have CFOs ever replaced CEOs in an entertainment company?

Genuine question because the bolded part feels unlikely. I don't think he went rogue, I think he talked to investor types and didn't expect that this would trickle back to core gamer types.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

This is easily the most intelligent post I have seen all day and demonstrates why Xbox is failing: they were in a slow lane (console sales), saw a fast lane (subscriptions) decided to change lanes but by the time they changed lanes, the new one slowed down.

It's almost like everyone BUT Microsoft saw that as a problem. My main argument against Gamepass sustainability was always the fact that people are tiring out of subscriptions as the market has become saturated with them. The cost of many of them are starting to go up and it's forcing people to cancel as several $15+ a month services adds up REAL fast. When there were few and the cost was less than $10 a month, it was easy to forget about them and just pay the monthly fee.

This is the same problem MS had with Kinect. By the time MS got around to it, the public was already tired of motion controls and the Wii was declining. But this is an ongoing issue with MS because on a fundamental level, MS doesn't invent or create. They only copy competitors and then try to force the competitors out of markets by leveraging their monopoly powers. The problem is that Windows has never had any meaningful impact on the console space so MS has been failing for 20+ years to apply their Monopolist's Playbook to the consoles and the living room in general.

 

[Pelta88]

Redfall is a genuinely bad game, Starfield should not be uttered in the same sentence.

You may have not liked it, but millions have.

That moment when you realise he’s talking PR engagement numbers /players when he references “The Millions.”

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Have CFOs ever replaced CEOs in an entertainment company?

Genuine question because the bolded part feels unlikely. I don't think he went rogue, I think he talked to investor types and didn't expect that this would trickle back to core gamer types.

Yes.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I wouldn't be so sure

It's already dwindling in sales due to lack of exclusives. If every first party game was on it, it would be a glorified GamePass box. I'm not sure how anyone would make an argument otherwise. No console in history has sold without exclusives.

 

[FrankWza]

Yikes @ chest beating stuff. Is this what console warz does to the mind?

I said after the Xbox port was announced because that’s when people started asking Sony about it and that’s when Sony told people it was part of the language MLB put into the new contract for the license.

But hey maybe you’re right and Sony was wrong, they just misread the contract or something

Chest beating great coup Jesus Christ.

You've completely gone off of the original subject. You're the one bringing in GP as some kind of reason. It has nothing to do with anything originally written. Go back and read. Again, there is no reason to bring up GP when it comes to discussion about exclusivity or "forcing" Sony to produce The Show for Xbox and Nintendo. It's 2 different conversations.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

You've completely gone off of the original subject. You're the one bringing in GP as some kind of reason. It has nothing to do with anything originally written. Go back and read. Again, there is no reason to bring up GP when it comes to discussion about exclusivity or "forcing" Sony to produce The Show for Xbox and Nintendo. It's 2 different conversations.

I said Sony wouldn’t allow the game day one on GamePass if they had a choice. You can disagree, but Sony has confirmed it was out of their hands. Maybe you should talk to them.

Doesn’t make it any sort of “coup”

 

[kruis]

The reality is that Bethesda had layoffs because their games were underperforming AND weren't multiplatform.

You look at games like Redfall, and I'm confident it wouldn't have launched except Microsoft desperately need it. Same with Starfield. I think both of those games get further delayed if they didn't have to prop up xbox and gamepass.

Both games were supposed to be available for holiday 2022.

Then you see Bethesda question why ABK gets to stay multiplatform while you're literally firing employees due to not selling enough copies of games... Yeah they would be pissed. Bethesda probably wants to be multiplatform and disney probably wants this to be multiplatform.

Microsoft probably wants to wait until the last minute to make that decision. The game isn't coming out for another 2+ years, so they can wait. Not saying anything has no impact on the Xbox brand, saying right now that it is going to be multiplatform puts into question whether Elders Scrolls will be as well. It also puts into question whether Xbox is going 3rd party, which would destroy the Xbox brand as a console platform.

Everyone is starting to realize that GamePass is destroying value and that Xbox doesn't have a large enough userbase to sustain 200 million dollar games.

MS must be having second thoughts about their day one on Gamepass promise. It would make much more financial sense to wait a year or so before games hit Gamepass. Movie studios are also realizing that it's bad for the movie business to shove the latest movies onto a streaming service after only a few weeks, because it devalues the experience of going to the movies and conditions movie goers to skip the cinema release and just wait a few weeks so they can see it on Disney+, Apple TV or Netflix "for free". It devalues what should be a hot ticket item people would otherwise spend much more on.

Gamepass would be just as profitable (or not) if Microsoft's first party offerings were to hit Gamepass not on day one but after a year. It would be a huge sales and revenues boost for their first party games that would certainly offset the loss in gamepass subscriptions by angry/disappointed subscribers. Better game sales would also mean that retail chans would be more likely to put Xbox games on store shelves and improve the visibility of the Xbox brand. Once a 1st party game hits Gamepass a year later, MS could release a Playstation version as well since that delayed PS5 release would not directly compete with the Xbox release but with Gamepass.

This setup would make much more financial sense for MS than the current business model.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Same teenagers who get excited about the spider thing

Nope, not even in the same ball park.

 

[twilo99]

Nope, not even in the same ball park.

Different teenagers go after spider? I guess that’s possible

 

[Physiognomonics]

At this point keeping software exclusive to Xbox Series is just to please the few millions Xbox fans left in US and UK. They can do that for a few internal games, sure. But clearly a company like Marvels won't see the point of doing that and ignoring 100 millions potential Playstation consumers worldwide. Maybe they saw Xbox sales and changed their mind, or the contract was not valid anymore, who knows?

 

[Thirty7ven]

Different teenagers go after spider? I guess that’s possible

You think Spider-Man only appeals to teenagers and Blade is as big of a character as Spider-Man?

Brother are you from bum fuck nowhere or something? How the hell somebody typing on a gaming forum has no clue about the difference in audience for Blade and Spider-Man.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

MS must be having second thoughts about their day one on Gamepass promise. It would make much more financial sense to wait a year or so before games hit Gamepass. Movie studios are also realizing that it's bad for the movie business to shove the latest movies onto a streaming service after only a few weeks, because it devalues the experience of going to the movies and conditions movie goers to skip the cinema release and just wait a few weeks so they can see it on Disney+, Apple TV or Netflix "for free". It devalues what should be a hot ticket item people would otherwise spend much more on.

Gamepass would be just as profitable (or not) if Microsoft's first party offerings were to hit Gamepass not on day one but after a year. It would be a huge sales and revenues boost for their first party games that would certainly offset the loss in gamepass subscriptions by angry/disappointed subscribers. Better game sales would also mean that retail chans would be more likely to put Xbox games on store shelves and improve the visibility of the Xbox brand. Once a 1st party game hits Gamepass a year later, MS could release a Playstation version as well since that delayed PS5 release would not directly compete with the Xbox release but with Gamepass.

This setup would make much more financial sense for MS than the current business model.

Let's take movies for example.

Going to the theater is super expensive. Seeing the movie is usually as expensive if not more so than outright owning the movie digitally. And paying 15 dollars a month to see as many movies and tv shows as you want. That's hard for theaters to compete. Especially if you can just watch in the comfort of your own home without the annoyances of someone talking in the theater or looking something up on their cell phone.

Gaming is different though. I don't think the benefits are there.

I think a lot of people give up GamePass altogether if the Microsoft first party stuff aren't there. In fact it's the 3rd party games that will drive their cost up the most.

It's just a broken model.

 

[FrankWza]

I said Sony wouldn’t allow the game day one on GamePass if they had a choice. You can disagree, but Sony has confirmed it was out of their hands. Maybe you should talk to them.

Doesn’t make it any sort of “coup”

What you're saying is completely meaningless to anything related to what we're discussing. That's why the GP coup comment. It doesn't matter in the context of the original quote and yet, you had to throw it in. This is what you replied to...

No they didn't. They were going to allow 3rd party to make MLB games as well. The comparison would be if marvel licensed blade to Playstation as well if Microsoft won't make this game available to other consoles. The Show is never a good one to one comparison because Sony owns that IP and it is based on licenses from MLB and MLBPA for player likeness and team branding. MLB can license that to any developer but they can't make The Show without Sony. It would have to be called something else. That's why they tried to resurrect R. B. I. Baseball a few years back.

What does it have to do with Sony having control of it going to GP? We were talking about it being SOLD on other consoleS. But you are conditioned to automatically talk about not buying games.

 

[Killer8]

I rarely agree with Klobrille, but dude is %100 on point when he said this:

Klobrille is only upset that he can't cheer-lead harder right now.

Once he gets confirmation that it's Xbox exclusive, then the infographics and full-throated brand endorsement can commence.

 

[Sacred]

 

[adamsapple]

I rarely agree with Klobrille, but dude is %100 on point when he said this:

Let's be honest, there's only a 7 page topic about it *because* of the thing. If it gets confirmed to be an Xbox/PC/Game Pass game, it will become persona non grata to some posters.

 

[Topher]

Let's be honest, there's only a 7 page topic about it *because* of the thing. If it gets confirmed to be an Xbox/PC/Game Pass game, it will become persona non grata to some posters.

It is a 7 page thread because Microsoft won't say one way or another.

My man....please don't pretend you don't care if the game is exclusive or not.

 

[adamsapple]

It is a 7 page thread because Microsoft won't say one way or another.

That's what I said as well.

My man....please don't pretend you don't care if the game is exclusive or not.

They can announce this for Switch 2, I'll be playing it on game pass anyway

 

[Topher]

That's what I said as well.



They can announce this for Switch 2, I'll be playing it on game pass anyway

Not what I said in either case, but sure, ok.

 

[TrueGrime]

LOL.

A game announcement from an MS studio with MS branding on it automatically triggers the port-begging talk. I suppose nothing was learned during the Starfield/Indy MS first party talks. On top of that we also get beautiful takes that Gamepass is devaluing games... again. Xbox and its partners can't afford to ignore the Playstation base... again. Gold.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

]Xbox and its partners can't afford to ignore the Playstation base... again.

They did their best. Phil had to bend the knee eventually

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

LOL.

A game announcement from an MS studio with MS branding on it automatically triggers the port-begging talk. I suppose nothing was learned during the Starfield/Indy MS first party talks. On top of that we also get beautiful takes that Gamepass is devaluing games... again. Xbox and its partners can't afford to ignore the Playstation base... again. Gold

it seems you missed the memo my champ.