Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Most of what Zenimax publishes, although generally of good quality doesn't sell that much. So the question is: are fallout and tes worth 7.5 billion?
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Is 7.5 billion too much and MS overpaid?
- Thread starter DavJay
- Start date
aries_71
Junior Member
Well, it’s a change of pace, though I suspect it will be short lived. The truth is that you can spend month after month in this forum absorbing only bad news/negativity on the Xbox brand. Some of it well deserved, other not so much. I would expect a more balanced Neogaf this generation, but I don’t keep my hopes high.
showernota
Member
Probably worth the price tag for the board room reaction alone.
Portugeezer
Gold Member
Maybe, but Elder Scrolls and Fallout are huge. That's gonna sell gamepass for decades.
Jimmyisback
Banned
What valuable ips does insomniac bring? Fuse and sunset overdrive are the only ones i can think of. Its not worth anything in terms of that.
HarryKS
Member
Keep going down that rabbit hole of stupidity.
They don't sell their own shares for cash flow. They do raises. And raises are done by companies well ahead of time and companies still in prospective range. Dilution does not happen at that level.
If they need money, they go to the bond market, they don't sell their shares.
Your previous posts on the topic were so stupid that it makes it hard to explain it to you without sounding mean. I apologize.
I have no idea if they overpaid. My hot take would be obviously they did, but how could I possibly know the value of something like this? I'm sure MS has given this ample consideration from all sorts of angles.
I'll say this for sure though. If they could have bought Rockstar for the same amount then they should have. A simple tweet that GTA will be a console exclusive would probably win the console sales war for either party.
I'll say this for sure though. If they could have bought Rockstar for the same amount then they should have. A simple tweet that GTA will be a console exclusive would probably win the console sales war for either party.
geordiemp
Member
They also made resistance and Ratchet games and spyro in th e past as well, they are a good developer amd the quality of spiderman and ratchet speaks volumes/.
Jimmyisback
Banned
Employees can always leave. MS could buy them out tomorrow if they really wanted to.
I think it's all relative, I mean everyone overpays for everything.
To put it in perspective: 15 million game pass subscribers presently paying what, $10-15 dollar a month, depending on if it is Ultimate. I'd say most go Ultimate, but we'll meet at $12.50.
12.5 x 15,000,000 is $187,500,500 USD per month. 2.25 billion dollars in revenue a year from game pass alone. And that number is ever increasing. So 7 billion doesn't seem that hard to absorb, and the acquisition only ensure people keep subbing to GamePass.
So even if they overpaid for the studio and IPs, the investment will be recouped in no time and just creates more and more money for them in subscription fees. I can't even imagine not having game pass now
To put it in perspective: 15 million game pass subscribers presently paying what, $10-15 dollar a month, depending on if it is Ultimate. I'd say most go Ultimate, but we'll meet at $12.50.
12.5 x 15,000,000 is $187,500,500 USD per month. 2.25 billion dollars in revenue a year from game pass alone. And that number is ever increasing. So 7 billion doesn't seem that hard to absorb, and the acquisition only ensure people keep subbing to GamePass.
So even if they overpaid for the studio and IPs, the investment will be recouped in no time and just creates more and more money for them in subscription fees. I can't even imagine not having game pass now
geordiemp
Member
And what is the value of an IP, last fallout did not sell well and was a mess.
Bolivar687
Banned
There are accountants and lawyers who ran the numbers on this and know better than any of us here, even those who might be involved in M&A.
The Alien
Banned
Disney paid $4B like 10 years ago.
This was just before everyone started snatching up content for streaming services. Honestly, even back then, $4B was a steal.
Did Microsoft pay too much? Its a lot of money, but I don't think so.
This was just before everyone started snatching up content for streaming services. Honestly, even back then, $4B was a steal.
Did Microsoft pay too much? Its a lot of money, but I don't think so.
- MS needed to secure it. They needed the games/IPs. Its a great fit all around. Many games fill their desires (RPG, horror, FPS action, narrative)
- They get 8 development studios (includes a Japanese studio they have long sought).
- Numerous proven and classic IPs including a deep back catalog of games. Also includes IPs they can do more with (Prey, Quake, etc.)
- All the tech...they got at least 2 game engines (iD Tech and Creation Engine).
NullZ3r0
Banned
Amazon, Facebook and Google would have paid it. And that's why Microsoft bought them.
What you folks may not realize is that there are giants eyeing this hundred billion dollar industry that Microsoft would have a tougher time battling than Sony and Nintendo. Microsoft has advantages that neither Sony nor Nintendo can touch. So keeping those other three out of gaming made this purchase a necessity.
Phil wasn't throwing shade at Sony and Nintendo when he said that Google and Amazon are his real competitors. That's just reality.
What you folks may not realize is that there are giants eyeing this hundred billion dollar industry that Microsoft would have a tougher time battling than Sony and Nintendo. Microsoft has advantages that neither Sony nor Nintendo can touch. So keeping those other three out of gaming made this purchase a necessity.
Phil wasn't throwing shade at Sony and Nintendo when he said that Google and Amazon are his real competitors. That's just reality.
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Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
They made the new spiderman that ended up selling what, 15 million?
Sony bought talent.
Sure, fallout and tes IPs are very attractive, but buying talent is also a viable strategy.
Birgitte2004-2
Banned
Some subscribers on game pass will be spending less money than they otherwise would. Game Pass has saved me hundreds of dollars, literally...dollars that would be primarily in Microsoft's pockets since most of the "big titles" I didn't buy due to it are from Microsoft themselves. Adding Zenimax to this doesn't increase my Game Pass value for Microsoft, on the contrary it just decreases it even more. My deal gets better, Microsoft's worse.
You simply can't do the math you are doing to decide anything, because the math doesn't show anything with the knowledge we as outsiders have. I'm not sure even Microsoft knows, because Microsoft would have no idea how much I would normally buy that I'm not right now. They can only guess.
So I guess what Microsoft is banking on is people paying for game pass who never buy games normally, those who want to reward Microsoft by buying the games anyway, or those who will spend a ton on DLC/add-ons. I have no idea how big the groups are, but the people I know personally are all saving money by buying Game Pass, rather than enriching Microsoft even more.
Darius87
Member
so you're saying ms enslaving employees and companies to release theyr games for free on game pass? your calculation is by far most delusional i've seen, ms have to pay to every developer whos game is on game pass also ms have to pay for theyr first parties studios who makes games for them.
Sorcerer
Member
Why would George care about getting more money, all his Disney money went to charity. I don't think he kept a penny of it.
Fuz
Banned
Yeah, but I think bethesda is out of luck now.
Knitted Knight
Banned
Overpaid. Who cares though.. MS is fine with it. That division ain't making money for a long time tho.... it's all strategic moves for now hoping for a future long term pay off.
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
Elder Scroll, Doom and Fallout has huge fan following and these names are instantly recognizable to people of every age. Beside the Fallout 76, their output is also been consistently great. So at the end, it will increase the value of gamepass. No one knows if their investment will pay off or not, it will ultimately be up to how they leverage the talent. Nothing in life is a sure thing, so lets wait and see. They must have thought this through, also don't forget, because of COVID, money is cheap right now, hence big acquisition makes sense for companies like microsoft
tillbot8
Banned
It's a colossal price, but it is also a colossal studio. It's hard to say if it will pay off (of course it will pay off, massive feather in xboxs cap) but I mean to the Microsoft investors was this worth over 7 billion dollars overall? I think if Sony bought it it would of benefited them moreso. Xbox has been penned into a corner, if the Series X fails Microsoft may pull the plug on Xbox division in the next gen. So it seems an all or nothing move to me. But I admire the ballsyness of it!
diffusionx
Gold Member
Maybe, but there is value to Doom, Quake, etc.
Also - Bethesda spent less than $6M for everything Fallout (except for a MMO that never came out) in 2007.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Oh, absolutely.
Jigsaah
Gold Member
You lost me at "enslaving". You reek of bias. Don't talk to me.
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
D.Final
Banned
Indeed a big catch for Microsoft
Darius87
Member
2.5 Billion.
Mister Wolf
Member
Disingenuous to prop up an online spinoff as representative of the Fallout franchises popularity. Especially when looking up the sales of the mainline Fallout game that released this generation.
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FranXico
Member
You're comparing one studio to a publisher holding comprising a dozen studios.
D.Final
Banned
A lot of money
Memorabilia
Member
MS has this kind of cash lying around in couch cushions on the Bellevue campus alone.
So, no.
It's a smart move for a bunch of reasons. Time will tell how well Phil and company manage things, but Nadella opened up the Big Swinging Dick wallet.
All the concern trolling is delicious though. Yummmm.
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Valued Gamer
Banned
I think its a good time to re look at this thread.
After seeing what Codemasters went for, and the massive push to buy up devs and publishers in the wake of this one, seems like it wasn't just a super smart decision from MS, but a really good value one at that.
After seeing what Codemasters went for, and the massive push to buy up devs and publishers in the wake of this one, seems like it wasn't just a super smart decision from MS, but a really good value one at that.
MaxwellParrish
Member
Star Wars Is not Just a Series of movies, but games, toys, books and merchandise. Nothing in the Bethesda IP Is even comparabile.
LittleBusters
Banned
The deal hasn't even closed yet. Microsoft can't dictate new games be exclusive until it does.
Sw0pDiller
Member
They are trying to build gamepass as big as netflix. You need to get better value than the competition. Right now they are lacking just that so the need big games and big names. But the competition is not sitting still. Microsoft just showed everybody it's business time and they need to step up their game.
Fredrik
Member
There was actually a rumour that Sony had talks with Bethesda for an exclusivity deal on Starfield. Would’ve been a nightmare for MS.
While the Zenimax aqcuisition don’t change anything short term, especially since they can’t talk about it yet, it’ll change a lot in the future. The number of big IPs they own is seriously impressive now. Only question is how they’ll spread them out on other platforms. Generally speaking I hate exclusives but strategically it would make no sense to pay this much only to still release everything on all platforms as if they hadn’t even purchased them. Since everything MS owns is on PC too I don’t think exclusives are all that bad, it’s always worse when it happens on Sony or Nintendo platforms since the games are locked to one single platform.
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