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Peter Moore: The Final Console Generation, MS going Third Party, and MS debated putting the original Halo on PlayStation

Topher

Gold Member
I know exactly how it works, but improvments
as a whole will happen where it becomes negliable to unnoticeable.

To put this into context I have a holiday house 4 hours away from the nearest data centre, this is tank water, and a micro grid community.

I run starlink at this address, I can already stream the vast majority of games near good enough on xcloud.

Two decades ago just 2 hours out of Sydney I was on 28.8K dialup that was as good as it gets, I now carry a phone that does 1.2Gbps regularly just off cellular. People just need to remind themselves how far humanity has come as a whole in two decades and how much further we'll go now even with memes like AI being able to do heavy lifting in spaces.

Yeah, but internet speed and bandwidth were not dependent on a datacenters being built within a certain proximity to people's homes. If it were, a lot more people would still be on dialup. Dialup was $20-ish back in the day. High speed internet today is upwards of $50 on the low end in the boondocks. I'm paying over $100. So there was a business justification for increasing speed for ISPs because the entire population wanted it. Not true for cloud gaming. Cloud gaming is a small segment of gaming overall at this point. Just think there is a grand canyon between the costs of making cloud gaming a real option for the number of people needed to justify it and the people who really want it.
 
Games Streaming and Subscriptions games has been a thing for years now and it has not caught on in a meaningful way.

Microsoft is trying hard to convince people that they are 5D geniuses when the reality is they keep trying to play into a future that might never happen instead of trying to play in the present.

The mass market audience that those initiatives appeal to have all moved to F2P mobile trash. they've been conditioned to not pay for games. Let alone a paid games subscription services.
I just want physical to be pushed again and for the games to come with proper booklets like they did back in the day.
 

RickMasters

Member
The death of the console as we know it will happen in around 2 decades, what does Sony already claim 80% or some shit of its sales are digital? You already don't own anything. Graphics will plateau to near realism and streaming will catch up to be non noticeable in ping time as compression and speed grow.

Sony would much prefer to have 100 million paying subscribers for $25 a month then to be shipping hardware. The profit margin on the consoles would be largely small to who cares when you factor in development and engineering, their main gross profit comes from micro transactions and their own store fees.

We'll have three apps eventually across any platform that has a screen and can sync a controller, Microsoft Nintendo Sony. Even if this doesn't happen in the next two decades it's inevitable.

bb86d736b77d79437fb1d1e91e4ae92b406a4f9a.gif
As much as some people won’t like to hear it. You are correct. Kids these days prefer tablets. The idea of dedicated boxes for games is about as anticipated as a CD player.



It’s only gamers over 30eithbtheir heads stuck in the sands of the old business model who think there is any future for co sole hardware.



If anything we will see console like PC boxes. That run all these apps ( gamepass, PSN, Nintendo, steam, ea play , ubi+) I think the nature of console hardware will have to. Go through this change in order to even have a legit reason to exist. Let’s be honest many of us who were once console diehards slowly started getting games on steam almost as a safety measure in the digital age that we are rapidly heading into.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
As much as some people won’t like to hear it. You are correct. Kids these days prefer tablets. The idea of dedicated boxes for games is about as anticipated as a CD player.



It’s only gamers over 30eithbtheir heads stuck in the sands of the old business model who think there is any future for co sole hardware.




If anything we will see console like PC boxes. That run all these apps ( gamepass, PSN, Nintendo, steam, ea play , ubi+) I think the nature of console hardware will have to. Go through this change in order to even have a legit reason to exist. Let’s be honest many of us who were once console diehards slowly started getting games on steam almost as a safety measure in the digital age that we are rapidly heading into.

If this is true, then why are the traditional ways of gaming dominated so much? I keep reading and hearing people say "old faced gamers have their heads in the sand of the old business model", yet it's the way that's clearly winning!

You guys said this traditional way was dying in 2012. You guys also celebrated Microsoft when they first showed off the Xbox One and it's always online ideas. IT LOST! The gamers made their choice. It was the opposite of what you guys wanted. Yet, you all keep pushing this narrative.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Btw to answer your question as far as I remember it wasn’t during the 360 days because their ecosystem was fairly healthy
Honest question: how much of a difference would it have made if the 360 had not contended with the RRoD issues. I think that slowed them down just enough to prevent them from truly taking over that gen.

That's always been a huge "what if" for me.

Of course the Kinect would still have happened.
 

Ogbert

Member
I read that part where Microsoft had this role playing exercise where Moore played Kutaragi and was immediately reminded of how Simon Sinek described Microsoft executives.


I fucking hate that sort of cringe anecdotal bollocks.

I absolutely guarantee you Apple are as competitive as it gets. And all that proves is how sanctimonious and full of shit Apple executives are.
 

UltimaKilo

Gold Member
What's the alternative to no consoles? PC only? Because we all know that game streaming sucks, and that we are nowhere ready for it.
Essentially that we are getting to diminishing returns, where phones and laptops will be almost indestiguishable from consoles in performance. Apple has been planning for this for a decade now.

Are we 3-4 years away from that? No, probably not. Within the next decade? Very likely.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
What's the alternative to no consoles? PC only? Because we all know that game streaming sucks, and that we are nowhere ready for it.

I just don't see consoles going anywhere without streaming ALREADY having taken that place. If the streaming tech never gets good enough, than consoles are here to stay.

I do agree with Moore a bit as far as I think the sales strategy for consoles might change a bit. Take PS, where they traditionally operate on the basis of converting the last-gen users over to the next-gen as quickly as possible, that might get a lot more difficult in the future. What we might see instead is just new iterations of hardware where PS stays more focused on the total reach of their player base and not the specific PS console a player is playing on. Maybe they don't care as much if you stick with your PS5, the PS6 is just the new better version of that. Maybe some people start to skip an iteration and would ride the PS5 until the PS7 launch etc. (assuming the pace of iteration increases), and so on. Eventually all users would need to upgrade, just like PC players would do, but there might not be the same urgency to do it. Unless they can come with a hell of gimmick to keep things moving.

If they don't and we are going to have another 3 or 4 years of cross-gen next time to keep profits up, I just don't see what they will come up with to fuel a rapid conversion between systems. I don't think rez and fps boosts would do it.

Essentially that we are getting to diminishing returns, where phones and laptops will be almost indestiguishable from consoles in performance. Apple has been planning for this for a decade now.

Are we 3-4 years away from that? No, probably not. Within the next decade? Very likely.

I don't see this ever being a thing as far as performance parity. In a few years, could phones match the performance of PS5? Maybe, but by that time the gen is over and PS6 will be at a place untouchable by a smartphone. The power usage differences between a phone at 10 or 15w max and a console at 250-300w is just too far apart. Cost for performance is another issue. The diminishing returns and engine scalability are real things and that might get things to a point where some users might settle for the phone experience, but there wouldn't be performance parity.
 
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RickMasters

Member
If this is true, then why are the traditional ways of gaming dominated so much? I keep reading and hearing people say "old faced gamers have their heads in the sand of the old business model", yet it's the way that's clearly winning!

You guys said this traditional way was dying in 2012. You guys also celebrated Microsoft when they first showed off the Xbox One and it's always online ideas. IT LOST! The gamers made their choice. It was the opposite of what you guys wanted. Yet, you all keep pushing this narrative.
For now….. you are one of those people that will be singing a different tune in a few years. But for now….. your head is clearly in the sand. Let’s have this conversation again in a few years if I’m still around on here.



I remember when I used to tell people that blue ray movies are dead…. Before that I said CDs were dead….. I’ll say the same thing to those people that I’m gonna say to you. You won’t see none of this coming. But you will wonder how…. Even after the whole industry has gone digital. But yeah, the PS and switching are selling like hot cakes right now….. I can see that….. but YOU can’t see the writing on the wall. They never imagined Rome would fall until it did either……
 

RickMasters

Member
You guys said this traditional way was dying in 2012. You guys also celebrated Microsoft when they first showed off the Xbox One and it's always online ideas. IT LOST! The gamers made their choice. It was the opposite of what you guys wanted. Yet, you all keep pushing this narrative.


“you guys” …… 😂😂😂😂😂😂

If all you have to work with is a bunch of shit I personally Never said … which really amount to nothing more that your over projecting your views of non Playstation fans ( I barely been a gaffer for a year)….. then there is not much I can say to you anyway. As long as things look the way they do you think everything in the industry is hunky-doree. And that’s game too. I don’t work in the game biz and none of it effects me. But as somebody that work in another industry that was affected by the transition to all digital and streaming….. I can already see where things are going for this for of entertainment. Maybe I’ll be wrong but I don’t think so.

Oh… and I don’t “want” anything. Im good over here bro…. I just see things as they are. But cool bruh 😅👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿
 
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jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
For now….. you are one of those people that will be singing a different tune in a few years. But for now….. your head is clearly in the sand. Let’s have this conversation again in a few years if I’m still around on here.



I remember when I used to tell people that blue ray movies are dead…. Before that I said CDs were dead….. I’ll say the same thing to those people that I’m gonna say to you. You won’t see none of this coming. But you will wonder how…. Even after the whole industry has gone digital. But yeah, the PS and switching are selling like hot cakes right now….. I can see that….. but YOU can’t see the writing on the wall. They never imagined Rome would fall until it did either……
Blu rays are dead...huh


I used Amazon as an example for a reason. CD's might show similar results.

Dont confuse whats happening in brick n mortar stores for everywhere.

Also:


Just a lil example of how Sony as a company feels about physical media.
 
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Synless

Member
The death of the console as we know it will happen in around 2 decades, what does Sony already claim 80% or some shit of its sales are digital? You already don't own anything. Graphics will plateau to near realism and streaming will catch up to be non noticeable in ping time as compression and speed grow.

Sony would much prefer to have 100 million paying subscribers for $25 a month then to be shipping hardware. The profit margin on the consoles would be largely small to who cares when you factor in development and engineering, their main gross profit comes from micro transactions and their own store fees.

We'll have three apps eventually across any platform that has a screen and can sync a controller, Microsoft Nintendo Sony. Even if this doesn't happen in the next two decades it's inevitable.

bb86d736b77d79437fb1d1e91e4ae92b406a4f9a.gif
Bro, Agent Smith lost though.
 

RickMasters

Member
Blu rays are dead...huh


I used Amazon as an example for a reason. CD's might show similar results.

Dont confuse whats happening in brick n mortar stores for everywhere.

Also:


Just a lil example of how Sony as a company feels about physical media.


Wonderful….now compare that to digital sales. And the actual consumer habits of spending consumers…. And then show me how that circle fits your square.


As for how Sony “feels” about digital…. That’s neither here nor there. Sony will go where the dollars are. If they want to survive. You o ow who also had strong feelings about digital?….. blockbuster…… where are they now?


But incase you couldn’t be bothered to click the link….. physical sales have dropped 95%….. no matter what the best selling Blu ray is on Amazon…. Most people watched the same movie over Netflix or amazons own prime service…. According to the research in the link most adult soend far more time consuming digital content than they do physical. That stat gets even more one sided in favour of digital the younger you go with these stats…… do you NOT see where this is all going? 🤔


It’s bizzare that you would even use Amazon…. A very digital orientated company…. as an example as they are one of the companies who profit the most from digital. Why do you think prime exists for music and movies and soon games? They would rather you got a subscription and saved them the cost of shipping……
 
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RickMasters

Member
Consoles will disappear. Sony became an American company, and was buried under an avalanche of money.



I’ll believe that when they give up on consumer electronics! 😅…… sad to say but maybe that’s their future… as simply the PlayStation company with movie and music ties……
 

Scotty W

Gold Member
I’ll believe that when they give up on consumer electronics! 😅…… sad to say but maybe that’s their future… as simply the PlayStation company with movie and music ties……
Yes, I was unclear. Playstation made a mistake by becoming American- Fighting MS on their own territory-Money- rather than staying strong on their own territory- superior design.
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Wonderful….now compare that to digital sales. And the actual consumer habits of spending consumers…. And then show me how that circle fits your square.


As for how Sony “feels” about digital…. That’s neither here nor there. Sony will go where the dollars are. If they want to survive. You o ow who also had strong feelings about digital?….. blockbuster…… where are they now?


But incase you couldn’t be bothered to click the link….. physical sales have dropped 95%….. no matter what the best selling Blu ray is on Amazon…. Most people watched the same movie over Netflix or amazons own prime service…. According to the research in the link most adult soend far more time consuming digital content than they do physical. That stat gets even more one sided in favour of digital the younger you go with these stats…… do you NOT see where this is all going? 🤔


It’s bizzare that you would even use Amazon…. A very digital orientated company…. as an example as they are one of the companies who profit the most from digital. Why do you think prime exists for music and movies and soon games? They would rather you got a subscription and saved them the cost of shipping……
So you just ignore what you see with your own eyes....

Cool.

You're the one that declared blu rays...dead. Unless you have a different definition of what dead means.
 
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That may have been what you said, but plenty of folks were expecting Call of Duty to be an Xbox exclusive. I remember one individual in particular mocking PlayStation fans with "you'll get Warzone"
At the end of the day fanboys will fanboy. Microsoft were never going to take cod from playstation, they want the money from activision to bank roll the rest of the gaming division.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
“you guys” …… 😂😂😂😂😂😂

If all you have to work with is a bunch of shit I personally Never said … which really amount to nothing more that your over projecting your views of non Playstation fans ( I barely been a gaffer for a year)….. then there is not much I can say to you anyway. As long as things look the way they do you think everything in the industry is hunky-doree. And that’s game too. I don’t work in the game biz and none of it effects me. But as somebody that work in another industry that was affected by the transition to all digital and streaming….. I can already see where things are going for this for of entertainment. Maybe I’ll be wrong but I don’t think so.

Oh… and I don’t “want” anything. Im good over here bro…. I just see things as they are. But cool bruh 😅👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿

You're basically saying we are headed toward the one-console future or a future where the console doesn't exist at all. It's hard to see that happening unless Sony just doesn't see value in having a Playstation brand generating $30 Billion a year.

96558_20233_sony-made-30-billion-in-2023.png



The Playstation brand made $30 billion last year alone. Why would they decide to give up on the console market and just make their games playable on PCs only or through TVs through some kind of app? Why wouldn't they want to dictate things on their terms to try to generate the most revenue and profit?

And why would Nintendo give up their $12 Billion a year and all of their profit? They have a higher profit margin than Playstation and Xbox? Why give that up? Their view on gaming is different than Sony's. Their approach to gaming is also different that PC gamer's and Steam's. So why just stop being Nintendo overnight? Or why stop after the year 2035?
 
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OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
Essentially that we are getting to diminishing returns, where phones and laptops will be almost indestiguishable from consoles in performance. Apple has been planning for this for a decade now.

Are we 3-4 years away from that? No, probably not. Within the next decade? Very likely.
I doubt it. Last I looked your top-of-the-line iphone ran Resident evil village like shit and it costs 1200 dollars. We'll be underwater long before phones even come close to console performance. Forget value.
 
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ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
The death of the console as we know it will happen in around 2 decades, what does Sony already claim 80% or some shit of its sales are digital? You already don't own anything. Graphics will plateau to near realism and streaming will catch up to be non noticeable in ping time as compression and speed grow.

Sony would much prefer to have 100 million paying subscribers for $25 a month then to be shipping hardware. The profit margin on the consoles would be largely small to who cares when you factor in development and engineering, their main gross profit comes from micro transactions and their own store fees.

We'll have three apps eventually across any platform that has a screen and can sync a controller, Microsoft Nintendo Sony. Even if this doesn't happen in the next two decades it's inevitable.

bb86d736b77d79437fb1d1e91e4ae92b406a4f9a.gif

That's an interesting thought. Imagine not having to spend hundreds of dollars on buying a dedicated machine..you can just download an Playstation app to your TV, PC, phone, tablet, portable computers etc and start playing, that will be convenient as hell.

That means hundreds of millions of users easily and console makers do not have to spend money on hardware R&D or manufacturing, hardware scarcity etc
 

drganon

Member
That's an interesting thought. Imagine not having to spend hundreds of dollars on buying a dedicated machine..you can just download an Playstation app to your TV, PC, phone, tablet, portable computers etc and start playing, that will be convenient as hell.

That means hundreds of millions of users easily and console makers do not have to spend money on hardware R&D or manufacturing, hardware scarcity etc
Keep dreaming.
 

RickMasters

Member
So you just ignore what you see with your own eyes....

Cool.

You're the one that declared blu rays...dead. Unless you have a different definition of what dead means.
CDs are still selling. People still buy vynil…. There was even a minor cassette craze at some point last year. But blue ray like these other physical formats has no future. It’s a format with an ever shrinking market… just like CDs.So yeah…. They are dead. You want to be pedantic about the here and now….. suit yourself. It’s neither here nor there to me. Just because people are (still) buying blu rays does not mean it’s gonna be sticking around, because at the end of the day it’s still a format that is gonna get phased out within the next decade with no replacement. Because by then physical media will be dead. Electronics manufacturers are not even going out of their way to make fancy high end blue ray players unless they are attached to a High end AV unit. Which is probably gonna spend most of its time playing audio for streamed movies anyway.
 

UltimaKilo

Gold Member
I doubt it. Last I looked your top-of-the-line iphone ran Resident evil village like shit and it costs 1200 dollars. We'll be underwater long before phones even come close to console performance. Forget value.

Which is incredible that it is even possible. Within 10 years (probably sooner), you'll have parity.
 

OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
Which is incredible that it is even possible. Within 10 years (probably sooner), you'll have parity.
If new consoles don't come out sure. Eventually, phones will get to ps5/x levels. I doubt those consoles will exist then. We'll be on ps6 or 7 by that point. Then it'll take even longer for phones to catch up. You're also ignoring the costs. Are these awesome theoretical iPhones going to drop down in price?
 
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RickMasters

Member
You're basically saying we are headed toward the one-console future or a future where the console doesn't exist at all. It's hard to see that happening unless Sony just doesn't see value in having a Playstation brand generating $30 Billion a year.

96558_20233_sony-made-30-billion-in-2023.png



The Playstation brand made $30 billion last year alone. Why would they decide to give up on the console market and just make their games playable on PCs only or through TVs through some kind of app? Why wouldn't they want to dictate things on their terms to try to generate the most revenue and profit?

And why would Nintendo give up their $12 Billion a year and all of their profit? They have a higher profit margin than Playstation and Xbox? Why give that up? Their view on gaming is different than Sony's. Their approach to gaming is also different that PC gamer's and Steam's. So why just stop being Nintendo overnight? Or why stop after the year 2035?


It’s not a case of “giving up” anything. It will simply be a case of wanting to survive and keep making 30Bn ( or more)


Hardware is always sold at a loss. Four years in and no real permanent price drops on either of these consoles… talk within the industry itself about how console sales have essentially plateaued but game dev costs keep rising. Company’s like square selling shit tonnes and still somehow finding a way to tell us “ this ain’t enough money” …. Mass layoffs left right and center…. . I could go on….. none of this sounds like an industry that is comfortabe about its future.


I thin Nintendo and Sony will hold on to the old business model for as long as they can but inna world where companies seek endless growth and profits and the cost of things keeps rising…. And as consumer habit shift ever more towards a digital downloads as the preffered way to consume all forms of media, as game prices rise, just like the cost of living itself, and subscriptions become ever more appealing, Nintendo and Sony will follow the money… in the words of wiz Kalifa” wherever this change go this game goes” …. These companies will always focus on their profits first, not the ideology of niche hardcore gamers.



I’d like consoles to stick around forever. And ten years ago I would have never thought it even plausible But realistically you can see where things are going if you just look at how tik tok raised gen z and gen alpha consume content. Free to play games with their back end supported by DLC. And not a care in the world for any thing called a console. They are all playing on tablets. So when we are all grey and not so heavy on the games anymore ( because let’s face it if you are over 35 on this forum you are probably Atleast a decade or two away from arthritis, and/ or grandparent hood. At that point todays youth are Tommorows young adults and what do these companies do if they are not meeting Tommorow a gamers via their main way of interacting with anything that they entertain themselves with… the tablet? Shit….. by then these games streaming services will have come along in leap ands bounds. If they can do low latency, with high resolution and they are apps in the TVs people already own, the need for a console will be not so nessacary. Right now Tesla and BMW have gaming apps built in, when you buy the new ones. And given that we are seeing a shift to the account being more important than the hardware, you can kind of see where it’s all going. One day PSN, Gamepass, and Nintendo could just be app stores like steam. TVs could have GPUs built in them ( teslas have GPUs in them) maybe a USB port for an external hard drive to download games as well as stream.

Personally I’d rather a one console future ( one where we build our own consoles to whatever specs we like what we do with PCs right now) and all the companies just put their apps and games on it. So maybe some sort of steam OS that runs gamepass, PSN, Nintendo’s and whatever else. All my accounts on one box. And I should be able to play those games from the one box. I think we will end up at some variation of that. Digital will become the way in which we own games. The account will be king in the eyes of the publishers…Subscriptions might be a nightmare because every publisher is gonna want to get a price of that pie. Ain’t enough to go around. So it’s gonna be brutal, for a while . Will be interested to see how the biz tackles the challenges in the Horizon…. And make no mistake they are coming. How people consume games, how they pay for them. It gonna affect how they are made and distributed. And then we will see services fighting for exclusive content. I see a point where the walled gardens come crumbling down as these companies make More aggressive moves to get money from each others audience. Because the ones on their platform alone will not be enough. We are already seeing the signs of that even from the market leader. Nintendo stubbornly sticking to their guns but the question has to be asked… how long can they keep that up for? Mayamto is not getting any younger, the hybrid console concept certainly helped Distance themselves a bit more from xbox and PS. But how many more of those kinds of innovations do they have in them? Nintendo has two problems in the future …. Tablets getting more powerful, and playing games people typically see as console games. And that younger fanbase who they love to target, jumping to tablets instead of Nintendo for gaming. Because they are already doing it now, choosing tablets over any console.
 
"But what if it's true?
If Tenacious D XBox has died, what will we do?
And what will we do
'Bout all the fans who have the D Halo tattoo?
They'll have them removed
They'll have to laser off the D Halo tattoos
Tattoo, ooh-ooh, oohh
They'll have to laser off the D Halo tattoo..."

Sing it!
 

LRKD

Member
I think it's certainly possible Xbox and/or PS become services/publishers in the near future, but I don't think Nintendo will be changing anytime soon. Final console doomposting has been happening for over 10 years now, but it definitely seems closer to reality now than ever. HOWEVER I think there will always be a market for physical games/consoles, even if it's more just a collector, nostalgia, or novelty market like Vinyls. Also it's hard to tell what is going to happen there could be huge advances in technology that takes gaming into totally different directions.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
That's an interesting thought. Imagine not having to spend hundreds of dollars on buying a dedicated machine..you can just download an Playstation app to your TV, PC, phone, tablet, portable computers etc and start playing, that will be convenient as hell.

That means hundreds of millions of users easily and console makers do not have to spend money on hardware R&D or manufacturing, hardware scarcity etc

So how does that happen? Like can you explain what any of these games will be running on exactly?
 

UltimaKilo

Gold Member
If new consoles don't come out sure. Eventually, phones will get to ps5/x levels. I doubt those consoles will exist then. We'll be on ps6 or 7 by that point. Then it'll take even longer for phones to catch up. You're also ignoring the costs. Are these awesome theoretical iPhones going to drop down in price?

The power per watt of these chips is growing exponentially, to where phones might surpass consones within this generation, and catch up even quicker next generation. As nodes get smaller and thermals better, along with the price, it won't be long.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Which is incredible that it is even possible. Within 10 years (probably sooner), you'll have parity.

Nah. Have you ever heard of HBM3 RAM? How do you figure an iPhone can compete with that against a console that has a total power draw of 180 watts? Especially when you don't want your iPhone even getting close to 10 watts of power draw for long periods of time.

I think it's certainly possible Xbox and/or PS become services/publishers in the near future, but I don't think Nintendo will be changing anytime soon. Final console doomposting has been happening for over 10 years now, but it definitely seems closer to reality now than ever. HOWEVER I think there will always be a market for physical games/consoles, even if it's more just a collector, nostalgia, or novelty market like Vinyls. Also it's hard to tell what is going to happen there could be huge advances in technology that takes gaming into totally different directions.

But why would Sony want to give up all the accessory money that they get from having a console? Plus why would they give up their storefront when they sell 3rd party games? Right now they make 30% off of every 3rd party game sold for their PS console. How will they replace that money if they are just a services/pubisher?

The power per watt of these chips is growing exponentially, to where phones might surpass consones within this generation, and catch up even quicker next generation. As nodes get smaller and thermals better, along with the price, it won't be long.

So why wouldn't the same apply to consoles? If the power per watt is growing, that also helps consoles too. Plus iPhones have to keep "SOME" kind of charge. Nobody wants their iphone to last 30 minutes if they play games on it. And how are you cooling that iPhone?

It's literally impossible for an iPhone to be more powerful than a console released in the same time frame. It's just science at the end of the day. Size and heat limitations will lead to that.
 
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night13x

Member
I dunno. I read the interview and it sound a lot like an undertone "we sucked and failed as a console maker so now all console makers should be coming to an end". MS should just accept that they were pretty decent, but nowhere as good as nintendo and sony.

MS going third party and more investment into their cloud sounds like the direction they are going but we will see.
 

Astray

Gold Member
I dunno. I read the interview and it sound a lot like an undertone "we sucked and failed as a console maker so now all console makers should be coming to an end". MS should just accept that they were pretty decent, but nowhere as good as nintendo and sony.
Basically this.

There is this weird attempt to frame an abject failure on Microsoft's part to deliver on nearly all fronts this gen (and last gen) as somehow being daring and future-minded. If anything, the future is now the past again, with 2 big Japanese conglomerates basically being the movers and shakers in the gaming industry.

Leave the subscription money dynamics aside, what exactly makes them think that anyone will care about an Xbox cloud service any more than they cared about the consoles they put out (which was zero)?
 

Mattyp

Gold Member
Big follower of your content here, but I'd counter that we've also seen a ton of tech that failed to take off in the past 20 years also.

No I'll agree to that happily, it will be make it or break it.

But I'll stand by this as a point in humanity I believe once everything plateaus and every device is capable it's what we'll see. I put lofty target on that, but the speed at which humanity seems to be progressing at the moment is mind binding when you stand back at look at where we were just 100 years ago considering how long man had been around before even that moment.
 

UltimaKilo

Gold Member
So why wouldn't the same apply to consoles? If the power per watt is growing, that also helps consoles too. Plus iPhones have to keep "SOME" kind of charge. Nobody wants their iphone to last 30 minutes if they play games on it. And how are you cooling that iPhone?

It's literally impossible for an iPhone to be more powerful than a console released in the same time frame. It's just science at the end of the day. Size and heat limitations will lead to that.
I'm not cornering myself into just phones, like Peter Moore mentioned. Laptops, TVs, streaming boxes, heck, eventually toaster ovens, will be more than capable. It's simply a matter of time.

The consumer will less want to spend an increasingly amount on a dedicated console, when they already have a device that is good enough. Even if there'd not parity in the next ten years, it will be more than close enough. So while there certainly are HiFi music devices, 95% of consumers are fine with what is already in their pockets. Same goes for DSLR cameras, etc.
 

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
So how does that happen? Like can you explain what any of these games will be running on exactly?

The increase of the power of the APU in every smart devices to the point where they can play games natively with ease. After all, modern portable PCs can now play current gen console games at lower fidelity after years of bespoke version of games on previous gen handhelds. The gap is only going to close to the point where it is negligible.

Look at the many PlayStation fans buying a PS Portal, a streaming handheld device that doesn’t have many modern streaming features, or the Playstation players hoping for Sony to release a Playstation app on PC. Looks to me that there is a growing audience of console fans who don’t care about high end fidelity of playing games natively on a console on a TV.
 

Astray

Gold Member
No I'll agree to that happily, it will be make it or break it.

But I'll stand by this as a point in humanity I believe once everything plateaus and every device is capable it's what we'll see. I put lofty target on that, but the speed at which humanity seems to be progressing at the moment is mind binding when you stand back at look at where we were just 100 years ago considering how long man had been around before even that moment.
I think one of the complexities of this gaming business is that it's not really tech by itself, if it was, then companies like Google or Microsoft should have run circles around Nintendo already (whose biggest success stories in the past 2 decades came when they stopped focusing on the cutting edge tech wars). The progression of computing tech alone is not a predictor of what consumers choose in the future.

The entertainment aspect of this industry is the key to understanding it, people will always pay for entertainment, and if the entertainment product is desired enough, they will grin and bear through any and all inconveniences the rights holder imposes, whether they're realistic or arbitrary.

I also think that a lot of us need to be very careful what we wish for in this industry, for example, we demanded that backcompat becomes a standard, and it resulted in console makers becoming extremely staid and boring (even Nintendo is supposedly releasing an "evolutionary" device in the Switch 2!), and it also gave companies a reason to go after emulators (because backwards compatiblity keeps older gen titles as viable "long-tail" revenue makers for these companies now).

If these companies are allowed to push a new normal of not being able to own games (right now we're mostly given a choice of owning vs digitally licensing vs renting via sub), then I think a lot of bad things will happen to us gaming consumers.
 
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