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[RCU005]

Very few early and general spoilers, nothing specific about TOTK. Please no story spoilers! I’m just a few hours into the game.

Sorry that the title seems like a clickbait, but it’s not meant to be.

First of all, let me start by saying that gameplay-wise is great. The new ultra hand mechanic has made me laugh so hard when watching what other people build, and I am having tons of fon with it.

With that said, when you stop and analyze the game, I believe it’s worse than the classic 3D Zelda games.

1) Story took a big hit! Zelda doesn’t have the deepest story and plot, but of course we all know BOTW was very light in story. The explanation was that it was due to the openness nature of the game. I can already see that TOTK might have more story, but hopefully it’s better.

2) Insane repetition! Practically the same things but different skin.
I don’t understand why Nintendo is doing this in TOTK. I’d understand in. oTE since it was the first game like this, and they had to fill a huge world with something. And I’m not even talking about shrines and koroks but the main quest!

BOTW takes you to four locations to activate the divine beast. It was the exact same mission four times. In TOTK, it’s the exact same thing (so far, I have done three) but even worse! They said there were dungeons in the game, and I was excited. But then I got to the second one, and realized I had to do the same exact thing but with a different skin! Same thing in the third one! But even worse! They have practically the same cutscenes but with different characters! This is literally, the equivalent of echo fighters in smash brothers!

Right now, I feel like I am playing BOTW again (main quest wise) and that I have done the same dungeon three times! It’s a shame!

Take Ocarina of Time, for example. You had to get the three crystals to open the temple of time, but each dungeon was completely different, and it felt like a different adventure in each one. In BOTW we had the same goal, same objectives and same Boss every time! This time the only different thing are the bosses.

I am feeling a little worried that once I get to the fourth dungeon, I will get a defeat Ganondorf to end the game and that’s it! Of course the game has many things to do, and I really love it for it. I wish many open world games copy many great things this game have done to open world genre, but remember I’m talking about the main quest.

3) Combat got, in a way, worse, but in others, better.
I’m not even going to talk about weapon durability (which I hate as it is, because could be done much better), but I would love to have the cool moves Link had in Twilight Princess, or even more.

Many of you might like that the combat— specially in TOTK— turned into a puzzle-like, that you can tackle in any way you want with all the tools you have! And that is great, but the sword combat should have stayed at least to a level of Twilight Princess. Yes, it’s fun, but it’s not Zelda-like, and because it’s fun people have “forgiven” or “forgotten” that it is not Zelda-like.

4) Where are the classic Zelda weapons and magic?
I believe the only one that came back was the boomerang. Where is the hook shot? The Din’s Fire, etc! Things that made Zelda special?

I believe Nintendo need to fuse (no pun intended) both styles! Of course they will keep the open world style since it has been extremely successful and fun! But they need to bring much more of classic stuff. Why does Nintendo believe that doing stuff in any order means that you have to see the same thing?
Should a more linear story work better? The way they are presenting the story is horrible! They have voice over now, they have amazing characters! There is no need pf copy-paste! It’s a huge waste of those great characters they have created!!

What do you think??

PS: If I have 15 hearts and I am going to die in three hits, just give me three hearts! It won’t look so unfair like that!

 

[Torrent of Pork]

I've got 10 million reasons within 3 days to show you why you're not going to like what Nintendo takes from this game's reception.

 

[01011001]

I feel like the new format is played out now, but it's generally better in so many ways than the old one imo.

Nintendo will have a hard time making the next one tho

 

[Madflavor]

Well it doesn't matter really because BotW and now TotK are selling like crazy, so this is what we're gonna get for a long time.

I'm with you. I would much rather prefer a more condensed an linear experience, and I do miss old formula with the bigger and better designed dungeons and bosses. But I've come to accept Zelda just ain't for me anymore.

 

[Thaedolus]

BotW felt like being a kid again getting thrown into the world of LoZ and Adventure of Link on NES, and TotK just ratcheted that up more.

I understand why people don’t get it or whatever but I feel bad for you, because it’s really peak gaming. The sandbox is just unreal.

 

[Lasha]

I enjoy the games without really thinking much. The old Zelda format was fun. The current format is fun. Nintendo's track record probably means future games will be fun. The current iteration has more room to evolve than the old dungeon/item format had.

 

[Sorcerer]

I wonder if it would be possible to mash up all the best elements? a 3D overworld with classic 2D dungeons. Maybe even one dungeon as an homage to the second Zelda Game. I think it would be jarring to say the least, but I think the hardcore fans might appreciate it. If this idea sucks I will take my lumps. LOL!!!

 

[fersnake]

i do really miss proper dungeons, iconic boss fights and music, not this natural bs they implemented in botw. and the worst! weapon durability. ok give us at least 2 or 3 weapons that doesnt break.

 

[ADiTAR]

I don't get the repetition or complaints about dungeons as if that wasn't there before. The dungeons in all of Zelda are re-skins, find the compass, find the map, get the chests, go to boss door. All of those they introduced some sort of mechanic to make them different, which is exactly what you have in TotK. Not to mention, in TotK there's also a preliminary part that is very different to each.

New format is wonderful, it's very much Zelda. Are there ways to improve it, sure.

 

[Northeastmonk]

I look back on how I got to the Forest Temple or even Zora’s Domain in Ocarina of Time. Then actually progressing through the dungeon. BotW/TotK feels like they didn’t want you to invest a whole lot of time when you actually get to your destination. You spend more time arriving at your destination which makes the journey all over Hyrule enjoyable, but there’s not much to do when you get there. I prefer TotK’s style, even if it felt short.

 

[Little Chicken]

I've been playing for 40+ hours and this isn't a 10/10 game.

 

[GigaBowser]

TOTK is the best game of all times most insanes open world tech ever

The old Zeldas are now boring and dated in comparisons my friends and like indie puzzle games in comparison

this is why they never solds nearlys as good

 

[Danjin44]

I can enjoy both style, in fact before TotK came out I replayed Awaking and really enjoyed my time with it and now loving crap out of TotK.

 

[SeraphJan]

The old Zeldas are now boring and dated in comparisons

 

[Raven117]

I would have preferred they take it easy on weapon breaking. Still the most irritating mechanic that adds nothing.

I didn’t quite like BotW, but this one has clicked with me.

Old ones are still great… but really, these are more in the spirit of the original than anything after it.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

I wonder if it would be possible to mash up all the best elements? a 3D overworld with classic 2D dungeons. Maybe even one dungeon as an homage to the second Zelda Game. I think it would be jarring to say the least, but I think the hardcore fans might appreciate it. If this idea sucks I will take my lumps. LOL!!!

Elden Ring did it with legacy dungeons. They will have to trim some 10% of the freedom. Definitely can be done.

 

[GigaBowser]

Exploration in OOT is an empty square field the sizes of a footballs field peoples have nostalgia for things that are not fun anymore linear puzzles with one way to solve linear exploration this is nostalgias

BOTW and TOTK are actually mades from Zelda 1 which was always supposed to bees open

Nintendo used 8-bit Zelda engine to prototype Breath of the Wild [Updated]

Physics and chemistry puzzles tested with older engine. Will we ever see Zelda Maker?

arstechnica.com

 

[TransTrender]

I don't disagree with you.

 

[SeraphJan]

Exploration in OOT is an empty square field the sizes of a footballs field peoples have nostalgia for things that are not fun anymore linear puzzles with one way to solve linear exploration this is nostalgias

BOTW and TOTK are actually mades from Zelda 1 which was always supposed to bees open

Nintendo used 8-bit Zelda engine to prototype Breath of the Wild [Updated]

Physics and chemistry puzzles tested with older engine. Will we ever see Zelda Maker?

arstechnica.com

That's exactly the problem, we have gradual improvement over time with Original Zelda -> ALTTP -> ALBW, now its back to square one.

Yes the world is much bigger, the physic surpass any 3D Zelda games, but without proper pacing, without meaningful dungeons and level progression, what you left with is a sandbox game. It might appeal to gamers that likes that sort of gameplay, but it doesn't necessarily mean its better than older Zelda formula, they don't replace each other.

 

[GigaBowser]

That's exactly the problem, we have gradual improvement over time with Original Zelda -> ALTTP -> ALBW, now its back to square one.

Yes the world is much bigger, the physic surpass any 3D Zelda games, but without proper pacing, without meaningful dungeons and level progression, what you left with is a sandbox game. It might appeal to gamers that likes that sort of gameplay, but it doesn't necessarily mean its better than older Zelda formula, they don't replace each other.

Lotsa peoples likes the new shrines and physics puzzles better than the old linears lock and key gated stuff myself included

More fun and lotsa ways to solve old formats got stale

 

[SeraphJan]

Lotsa peoples likes the new shrines and physics puzzles better than the old linears lock and key gated stuff myself included

More fun and lotsa ways to solve old formats got stale

That's perfectly fine, there is no reason to against people having fun, I respect your preference as well as other who likes it, but why not also respect people who loves the old formula, my point is: they don't replace each other because they have different appeal. I just hope Nintendo could once a while release a classic style Zelda in between if that's not too much to ask

 

[sigmaZ]

I found the dungeons in TotK to be a step up from BotW and more similar to traditional Zelda though I would like to see some elements of them return in the future.

Although I had a ton of gripes with BotW, I feel like Totk actually addressed them or softened them for the most part so it was an overall much more enjoyable experience.
The only thing I couldn't stand was the amount of text. Talking to people and reading journals etc where there's over five pages of text just to give you information that could be given in two pages. And if you accidentally missed something you would have to go through it all over again.

I'm a firm believer in NPCs in towns only having one or two lines of text. Playing Horizon FW right now and that aspect is such a relief. All relevant NPCs are properly voiced and animation where other villages stick to one liners.

 

[RCU005]

Yes the world is much bigger, the physic surpass any 3D Zelda games, but without proper pacing, without meaningful dungeons and level progression, what you left with is a sandbox game. It might appeal to gamers that likes that sort of gameplay, but it doesn't necessarily mean its better than older Zelda formula, they don't replace each other.

This is my point! BOTW and TOTK did an amazing job when it comes to the sandbox aspect of the game. Is great to have a huge world and that it feels more natural than the checklist-infested ones.

I have no problem with that at all, but Zelda is not supposed to be like Minecraft or even GTA, where you just mess around in the world. It’s fine if you do it, and you have to do it to fill a huge world. I like that you find people randomly and they have something meaningful to say or do or offer to you.

But Zelda is much more than that! Like you said, it has evolved! And Nintendo needs to add that into the new format. Like I said, they need to merge both formats. Keep the huge world, but bring back the story (specially now with amazing characters and voiceover), bring back magic, bring back real dungeons, items, weapons, sword combat, dark link, etc!

Weirdly enough, I don’t have an issue with the music. I love the new subtle music for many things. The only music that I truly dislike is the one where you ride the horse!

 

[Robb]

I agree on point #2. I would actually like to know the design philosophy/reasoning behind using that “press 5 buttons” system since they chose to keep it from BotW. I get that it’s open ended and you have to be able to do it any order, but surely there are more clever ways to design it?

I was hoping they’d go more all in on the temples. I don’t think there’s anything stopping them from having a more classic design. Even if you get all the main abilities in the beginning you could still have temples dedicated for those abilities, like one temple that has been designed mainly around ascend etc.

Other than that though I don’t really care much. The story in TotK is still better than most Zelda’s imo, combat is deeper and more varied than any of them combined and the unique gear (although I do miss the hook shot) has just been replaced with the abilities you get in the beginning (which are also way deeper, varied and more fun than any of the gear you got in previous installments imo).

 

[lachesis]

I think this whole BOTW/TOTK style is actually made specifically for it's concept. Due to his age, Aonuma may step back from actively making Zelda, and following director would have to pitch something more. If they are going to stay in the same style - he/she will have to be able to offer something new/better and "fun" to the formula. I can't seem them making another game in BOTW style though. They may use similar physics system - but could be very different in scale and approach?

But in general, Zelda games have been all about exploration and dungeon puzzles. BOTW added verticality organic approach - and TOTK really upped it to the several steps further. Chances are, they may already feel like they've explored this route long enough - that they may try something different, perhaps something more focused, or something even more loose and free?

Either way, I don't think Nintendo Zelda devs really much think about set "formula" other than the core entertainment value and identity when designing their games... so I have pretty high expectation of them providing solid experience on next Zelda game, whichever form it may take.

 

[RCU005]

I found the dungeons in TotK to be a step up from BotW and more similar to traditional Zelda though I would like to see some elements of them return in the future.

They are definitely a step up from BOTW, but all of them are the exact same. Find four things, then same cutscene. They should’ve made them different from each other.

And if you accidentally missed something you would have to go through it all over again.

That’s fixed in TotK. There’s a log now by pressing Y

where other villages stick to one liners.

I wouldn’t like that. I like when NPCs have personalities and talk depending on it.

 

[kunonabi]

I haven't played botw since it launched but the first dozen or so hours of TotK were a real chore to get through because it was just the same crap all over again just with worse story reasons for everything. Now, once I did the first dungeon things started to pick and actually new stuff started popping up and I got the sense that there was actually new things to experience. This was the exact opposite of botw where the first dungeon was the point where I realized I had pretty much seen everything was going to offer and I was right.

So I was starting to actually enjoy TotK but I took a break since I had guests over for a week. Going back to it now its back to feeling like a chore as koroks, shrines, etc are such a slog. It amazes me that they don't bother to freshen these things up at all for the most part. Of course, they had the biggest opportunity to fix the problem with seeing the flashbacks out of order and they just decided not to so maybe that shouldn't surprise me.

I'm going to finish TotK but I really don't think I have the energy or patience to do this kind of thing again.

 

[Majukun]

They are definitely a step up from BOTW, but all of them are the exact same. Find four things, then same cutscene. They should’ve made them different from each other.

well that is what a zelda dungeon is in essence..a series of puzzle rooms where the objective is getting a series of item in sequence to unlock more of the dungeon until you reach the boss door. sometime you do that while trying to make some water flow to a certain place, sometime you are just trying to unlock an elevator, but gameplay speaking not much has changed
in botw and totk since there are no dungeon item they had to make all the main parts accessible at once instead of in succession, with the exit being the first thing you see and the objective being to navigate from that central point looking for the 4 "items" to unlock it.

they could have made them more similiar to past zeldas by introducing permanent items again, but seems like it's something they don't want in the new formula

 

[Yoshi97]

I really like botw/totk but yeah I hope they return to the og format someday. For those looking to get their classic Zelda fill, I'd actually recommend the Metroid Prime Trilogy, they somewhat (especially 2) hit the classic 3D zelda spot for me.

 

[Kataploom]

So YOU like it less? Understandable, tastes and all.

I wish another Zelda in the same vein of the latest ones, but in another map, maybe now in the sea ala Wind Waker, I'd like to see what they would do with the lessons learned to date in that setup, maybe a little smaller open world with more traditional dungeons but not with traditional puzzles, in my opinion old puzzles with single solution are by far worse than the "you do you" approach of Switch game.

 

[StueyDuck]

Just call it nintendos borky adventure minecraft lands.

They are good games

They are not very good Zelda games.

Here comes the derangement however.

 

[Nydius]

The only thing I really agree with is your points on repetition and the temples not feeling special. I've said something similar in the OT and I'll repeat it here: The temples were the least memorable parts of the game for me.

My only real gripe with the game, overall, is the amount of grind it included. It was significantly worse than BOTW in that regard. The entire Depths existed solely to pad playtime by adding more things to grind -- lightroots, zonaite, crystalized charges. This was on top of the insane 152 shrines, Korok seeds, and ludicrous material requirements for upgrading gearsets.

But I don't think it's "worse" than older 3D Zeldas. Just different.
If they make a third game that plays similarly to BOTW and TOTK then I'll probably say "okay, that's too much".

 

[Emedan]

I love TOTK and I don't agree with much in the OP. I don't think people understand that implementing classical dungeons and equipment mean you would have to remove the ability to climb and traverse anything. I think it's how Nintendo always intended Zelda to be but hadn't been able to realize it in 3D due to hardware limitations of their consoles. I wish for more narration too I'd admit but I believe all future Zelda games will be more or less the same as BOTW and TOTK from here on out, next time I just hope we get another map.

 

[apple_of_enlightenment]

I think my problem is the bringing in of science fiction into Zelda. It destroys the charm of the WW and OOT styles and moves toward Metroid.

Not to say that TOTK isn't an inspiring game, but it doesn't feel the same.

 

[ChoosableOne]

To be honest, I actually liked the new Zelda game more than BOTW. It has more content, but I still think the map is too big. I keep losing my horse, so I end up walking a lot, and after a while, it gets tiring. Nowadays, I find a tower and clear the shrines in that area, then I go to the nearby town. I hardly explore the areas in between these locations. The lack of excitement in the loot is also a factor. It's pointless to spend hours running for a weapon that will break in 10 hits

 

[kungfuian]

Probably be burned at the stake for this one. Having played just up until the end, maybe 70 hours or so, I think the game's got as many strengths as it does weaknesses.

As far as technical achievements go; it's pretty wild what they have made. So much to explore, so many systems all playing together, so many ways to approach encounters, really inventive physics exploration and puzzles (my favorite part of the game), lots to love.

The combat (although I'm admitted bad at it) I feel is only ok though, mostly for the fact that I either felt way over/under powered or just felt like much of the enemy encounters were skippable. But again I'm not 'good' at the combat and I'm sure enjoyment varies with skill.

The game's real glaring flaw, for me at least, is the need for so much travel and how slow it can be to get from A to B. Similar to Elden Ring, I spend way to much time aimlessly wandering around (which in this game amounts to pushing up until the stamina meter is almost empty, let go, recharge, run more, spam repeat) and hopping from fast travel map point to map point trying to gather shit or do fetch quests of some variety. The fastest way around often amounted to warping to a Skyview tower (spent so much time in loading screens headed to towers), then slowly gliding around to different map points. And of course Nintendo knew you want to go faster than the standard glider so they give you some half ass speed boosts every half stamina wheel and punish you with one of the most ear grating sound effects ever each time you use it. It doesn't respect your time at all, and something about the whole experience feels kind of cumbersome as a result.

Don't get me wrong, it is one hell of a game in many ways, especially the puzzles (seriously wow at the puzzles). But it's not a 10 for me due to these flaws.

 

[Banjo64]

I’m absolutely loving it, and it’s not very often a game nowadays can get me playing for 30 hours having only completed one dungeon.

I’m just loving re-exploring this beautiful world and finding everything new.

To OP, Nintendo constantly change things up. This format will not be Zelda forever. Just like we have 2D/2.5D/3D Mario’s that are all different, 2D/3D Metroid etc. we will definitely get different (read: classic) Zelda games in the future. Both 2D and 3D IMO.

 

[Business]

My problem with Totk is it's Botw all over again, it's objectively amazing but despite the additions I feel like I have played this game before. Also not the biggest fan of the nuts and bolts part of the game, I always saw Zelda as a sword and sorcery fantasy thing, not sure how well the jet engines fit in.

 

[AngelMuffin]

I agree with most of what you said but I’m still having a lot of fun with the game.

The Assassin’s Creed franchise switched over to a new open world style of game but that got old after a few games and they’re going back to a more focused approach…hopefully Nintendo does the same with Zelda after ToTK.

 

[Scotty W]

Zelda is not supposed to be

I think this is the problem. It is supposed to be something else.

Do you recall when that investor asked Miyamoto about FZero and he basically said that they had exhausted all the gameplay possibilities, so there was no point in making more?

I think he wants this apply to all his children and grandchildren. I recall Aonuma prior to Botw having his big realization that Zelda did not need to be a puzzle game.

I recall a lot of people complaining that the Zelda formula had become stale around the time of SS. Nintendo were looking for a way to “break the frame” with Zelda and they finally succeeded with Botw.

Zelda is not supposed to be what we have known and loved since 1991. It is supposed to be Miyamoto’s experience of journeying into the cave in Sonobe. The original Zelda came closest to this. The sequels went as far as possible before reaching a dead end.

 

[ungalo]

Right now, I feel like I am playing BOTW again (main quest wise) and that I have done the same dungeon three times! It’s a shame!

How is that the fault of the format ?

Virtually they could have done anything in a big open world with this mix of sandbox and codified game design that is the signature of old Zelda, they just chose to make a BoTW 1.5, with absolutely zero significant improvement on the game design. They doubled down on the powers, but they made nothing of it. They expanded the world without any purpose. And as you say, they've just made another main quest with exactly the same structure and probably the worst dungeons in the serie. But was it inevitable ? I don't think so at all.

Perhaps it just means that for Nintendo this format is too expensive to update on, that it has too much scale to do so (but in that case it didn't need to have 200 hours of content, it's fucking absurd), i don't know. But i feel ToTK is absolutely the opposite of an achievement, we have barely scratched the surface on the design front. If we talk about it globally, i think the new format has the most unexplored potential.

 

[Bond007]

I dont disagree. Was sort of disappointing that the dungeons are all essentially the same.
That being said, its really a small aspect of the overall game and what there is to do. I dont think it would distract me from continuing to consider this game a 10/10.

 

[Wunray]

They are on to something with the lightning temple, they need to take that and expand on it.

 

[Rush2112]

Another zelda thread on gaf. so exciting.

 

[Thaedolus]

Another zelda thread on gaf. so exciting.

“People are still talking about the biggest release of the year a month later waaaaah”

 

[TheBROgamer]

The new format sucks and is built for the modern gamer who likes running around aimlessly, in games.

 

[Mr Hyde]

I'm 10 hours in and loving it so far. I think it's more story heavy than Botw, at least now initially, with lot of characters that provide a ton of backstory and lore, while also sending you out on quests. Botw, from what I remember, just dropped you off from the Plateu and off you went, with no particular directions given. I don't care much for the Ultra hand, I'm not creative enough to build fun things, but the fuse mechanics is a game changer. Lots of fun to experiment with different weapon combinations. Ascend is pretty good too, and alters the way you explore, adding a great deal of depth and variety to the core gameplay.

 

[EverydayBeast]

TOTK has so much firepower, I’ll remind everyone against twilight, skyward, and wind waker it’s legitimately bigger and better than those three games COMBINED.

 

[darrylgorn]

Yeah, I got bored after a few days of basically the same experience as BOTW.

Do yourself a favour OP and go play the System Shock remake instead.

 

[Jooxed]

Stick with this format. TOTK blows me away with the scope of it. Drop Link somewhere other than Hyrule for the next game.