-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Hillary Clinton Introduces Videogame Regulation Legislation
- Thread starter Ark-AMN
- Start date
-jinx- said:
Again with the equating M-rated games to a NC-17 standard. You're reaching.
Every theatre in the country asks for ID for R-rated movies. Every single one. Can a kid get in one without getting carded from time to time? Sure. But the compliance is virtually 100%. Do they still make R-rated movies? You better believe it.
The problem in gaming is that voluntary limitation is nowhere near 100%, so outside forces are stepping in. If the gaming industry was more proactive, Clinton and co. would not have a leg to stand on.
Gahiggidy said:
But what about the senseless drowning of poor non-blue Pikmin?
Why was the NC-17 rating created? Because there was a clear stigma against X-rated films. And guess what? It just moved the bar lower.Odysseus said:
If AO games become almost impossible to sell, then games which might have ended up in that category will end up in M...so what's to stop someone from locking down M-rated games at that point?
how anyone can be against that I don't know. it makes perfect sense and is a vital step in having the video game industry taken more seriously by the general public. Anyone against it isn't thinking straight.
I can only hope something like this is picked up by the Australian government, that way games wont be banned outright (like GTA was at one point and now that Fifty Cent game). Instead the OFLC will only rate the games and then the responsibility will be on retailers not to sell unsuitable games to minors, just like how retailers in liquor stores (where i work) are held responsible for selling alcohol to minors.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
I am suprised both political parties in the US haven't decided to make their own video games as propaganda.
CarlosX360
Banned
I hate this issue....I swear, its patheticly stupid....It makes the movie industry look a lot better than the video game industry....I mean, think about it:
The movie industry has movies that is so violent, that its explict. It has some of the most disgusting content of any media out there...Yet, the retailers carry the movies....
Some of the movies have nude content.....Guess What? THEY STILL CARRY THEM! Wild Things, and the sequel, some rated R movies...and so on. And they haven't fussed about it.
Now, I don't see people complaining about the movies...I see a lot of parents controlling the kids on what movies they could see, and what they could not....But for video games...We got hundreds and hundreds of little bitchy parents complaining about the games. Bitching like little whores. It pisses me off in levels that I can't comprehend.
Ever since the first time I saw those ESRB ratings....I NEVER understood why....WHY is this such a huge controversy. Its....I donno....full of hypocrisy. Full of stupidity. The music and movie industries both have worse content, and yet, they haven't been complained about, but get only a fucking rating system.
Even today, I still don't understand the controversy.
I understand that the games went to the wrong hands....but its the finger pointing that is pissing me off. You parents want to bitch about your kids playing these violent games, why don't you fucking blame yourselves for not parenting your childrens!? HUH!? HUH!?
Why don't you take YOUR own responsibilty for this bullshit!?
Really. I hate this.
The movie industry has movies that is so violent, that its explict. It has some of the most disgusting content of any media out there...Yet, the retailers carry the movies....
Some of the movies have nude content.....Guess What? THEY STILL CARRY THEM! Wild Things, and the sequel, some rated R movies...and so on. And they haven't fussed about it.
Now, I don't see people complaining about the movies...I see a lot of parents controlling the kids on what movies they could see, and what they could not....But for video games...We got hundreds and hundreds of little bitchy parents complaining about the games. Bitching like little whores. It pisses me off in levels that I can't comprehend.
Ever since the first time I saw those ESRB ratings....I NEVER understood why....WHY is this such a huge controversy. Its....I donno....full of hypocrisy. Full of stupidity. The music and movie industries both have worse content, and yet, they haven't been complained about, but get only a fucking rating system.
Even today, I still don't understand the controversy.
I understand that the games went to the wrong hands....but its the finger pointing that is pissing me off. You parents want to bitch about your kids playing these violent games, why don't you fucking blame yourselves for not parenting your childrens!? HUH!? HUH!?
Why don't you take YOUR own responsibilty for this bullshit!?
Really. I hate this.
Sorry but that's discusting, you cant expect Parents to be responsible for what their kids play if the kids can buy things they arent supposed to by themselves. Thats what rules like this accomplish, they take the responsibility away from the content provider and place it on the retailer, then if the retailer doesnt sell the AO games to kids then the only person left to blame for kids playing violent videogames is the parent who bought it for them.
We've had rules like this in Europe for years, the actual member of staff who sells 18+ (or whatever) material to underage kids can personally be prosocuted (think the maximum fine is £5000). Theres no good reason not to have a law like that.
If the VG industry cant survive without peddling violent/sexually explicit games on kids (as some people in this thread seem to be suggesting) then it probably doesnt deserve to survive in its current state.
Late Stage Marxist
Member
As long as developers don't buckle under pressure from publishers to censor games I'm fine with the decision. The games industry was always intended to have an age-segmented market. Now it's simply being enforced, no different than the film industry.
People that use the "it's the parents' responsibility" argument need to realize that many kids have disposable income from paper routes, mowing lawns, shovelling snow, etc. It's not always a matter of parents buying for their children. It only costs $5 rent a game.
People that use the "it's the parents' responsibility" argument need to realize that many kids have disposable income from paper routes, mowing lawns, shovelling snow, etc. It's not always a matter of parents buying for their children. It only costs $5 rent a game.
Catchpenny
Member
Hey guys, how about putting some of the blame on Rockstar's doorstep? Not so much for the GTA games themselves, but for doing a run-around on the ESRB by "accidentally" leaving the Hot Coffee content in GTA:SA. They gained more notoriety for themselves at the expense of a shitload of bad publicity for the industry. This stunt also managed to make the ESRB system look completely ineffective. Legislation like this was inevitable once that happened.
Yes, the politicians are whoring for "family values". The parents should be more responsible for their children's welfare and keep an eye on what they're doing. The retailers should spend a little time and money to keep adult content out of children's hands, rather than just refusing to sell it.
But for all that, there was a fairly harmless system in place. Ratings that give the consumer an idea as to what they are buying, while allowing publishers and stores to police themselves without Big Brother looking over their shoulder much. Now we're likely to end up with something more draconian, in large part because the ratings system was turned into a laughingstock by a company that was already making loads of cash. Thanks for shitting in the well, Rockstar.
Yes, the politicians are whoring for "family values". The parents should be more responsible for their children's welfare and keep an eye on what they're doing. The retailers should spend a little time and money to keep adult content out of children's hands, rather than just refusing to sell it.
But for all that, there was a fairly harmless system in place. Ratings that give the consumer an idea as to what they are buying, while allowing publishers and stores to police themselves without Big Brother looking over their shoulder much. Now we're likely to end up with something more draconian, in large part because the ratings system was turned into a laughingstock by a company that was already making loads of cash. Thanks for shitting in the well, Rockstar.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Wow. Such crying. This isn't even a big deal, and is a far more acceptable solution (or attempted solution) than outright censorship. Retailers aren't gonna stop carrying M rated games because of this. Did liquor stores stop selling cigarrettes when the lawmakers cracked down on the sale of those to minors? This has been going on with music and movies for years. I remember being refused to buy a CD with a "Parental Advisory" sticker when i was 16. Just a few months ago i was actually friggin CARDED as circuit city when i tried to buy an R rated dvd. And movie theatres have cracked down on letting underaged kids into R rated movies w/o their parents for like 5 years. Seriously, this will change nothing. Stop overreacting. Most of us here are over 18 and will not notice a thing. Those of you that are under 17/18, tough shit.
How? Because there is no law to the ESRB. It is a rating system designed to act as a guide to those who have the money to buy games. The ratings are selected by a panel of "everyday working class" people. The ratings were never intended to be taken as a law. So why the governament wants to make it so is rediculous. Because parents or legal guardians can't take 1 minute out of their life to pay attention to what their kids are doing? Give me a fucking break.Scrow said:
If your at work, make a phone call, ask what you child is doing. If its a game, ask what they are doing in it or what its about. Your child is at a friends house? Get that friends phone number and talk to that parent to inform them of what you allow your child to do.
Sure many 14-17 yr olds can and do have jobs these days, but guess what, they still live at home under their parents roof. Which means they live by their parents rules. If the parent says ok to play, then any stupid act taken by the kid is their own fault. Its not the stores fault for the parents being stupid. On the other hand there are many many kids at that age who workd, and who are mentally capable of playing M games. But that is not a descision that is up to the government to make. Hillary doesn't know anything about proverbial thirteen year old next door who has a college degree.
A major difference in alcohol, cigarettes, and games are that the first two cause direct damage to the person from any interaction. The third does nothing. Games do not have a effect in any damaging way to a person health. The only thing they do is cause hightened emotions just like participating in sports, so lets ban them for kid as well.
what's the problem with one extra level of protection? face it, there will always be bad parents, why shouldn't the government take steps to lessen how much mental and emotional damage can be inflicted on a child? Are you underage? If not, what does it matter to you? All that it means is that children won't be able to buy unsuitable games. I can't understand why any adult would be upset by this... you can still buy the game if you want.Berto2K said:
since when has the government ever pandered to the exceptions of rules in any given topic? laws and regulations are made for the majority. most 13 year olds don't have a college degree, so it's just stiff cheese for the very small number who do.Berto2K said:
13 year old genius: "oh look, i'm 13 but i'm really mature for my age. can i have alcohol and cigarettes please?"
retail clerk: "..."
violence and adult themes in video games, movies, music or any given media will damage a child either emotionally or mentally if they're exposed to it too early and for too long.Berto2K said:
wrong. if the content isn't suitable for someone who isn't mature enough to view the content damage will be done. That's true for anything, not just video games.Berto2K said:
now you're just being stupid. oh and hey, drugs cause "hightened emotions" just like sports... if kids can play sports with no problem they should be able to have drugs too... duuurrrBerto2K said:
Gek54 said:
Nobody knows. That was one of the big debates back when it all happened. Some people thought that it was never intended to be accessed, judging by how it's completely impossible to access without a 3rd party device, but others believed that Rockstar left it in, knowing people would eventually unlock it, giving them extra publicity and sales later on.
We'll most likely never know for sure, though.
chaostrophy
Member
Has anyone here actually been harmed mentally or emotionally by playing a mature game as a minor?
The studies proving that such games are actually harmful are very spotty. I don't personally know anyone who felt like playing Mortal Kombat or whatever as a kid hurt them in any way. Seems to me that the people saying that 12 year olds shouldn't play GTA are just following social norms rather than giving real thought to the question of whether or not the games are truly harmful.
The studies proving that such games are actually harmful are very spotty. I don't personally know anyone who felt like playing Mortal Kombat or whatever as a kid hurt them in any way. Seems to me that the people saying that 12 year olds shouldn't play GTA are just following social norms rather than giving real thought to the question of whether or not the games are truly harmful.
Ding ding.Scrow said:
And really guys, if you're sick of the FCC going apeshit every time you have a violent video game, album or movie sold to too many minors, the only thing you can really do to prevent them from overreacting is to at least try and make an effort to put stricter guidelines in place to PREVENT them from getting it, and put more emphasis on parental permission in the first place...
ToyMachine228
Member
Can anyone PM me an address either electronic or snail mail where I can reach Hillary? She is afterall my Senator and I'd like to make my voice heard, no death threats attatched. Thanks.
C- Warrior
Banned
ToyMachine228 said:
Depends...you for or against this bitch?
;p
ToyMachine228
Member
Thank you for the link. Before I only had the site run by the "Friends of Hillary" and I really don't have that much extra time to go searching at the moment...Working a project for Mass Media class, and a paper for College Writing II so...I appreciate it.
chaostrophy said:
No. And neither has anyone else. Ever. Anywhere. That goes for films, books, TV shows, plays, etc. Ideas can be dangerous, but the medium conveying the message is not the problem. There's an old saying about killing the messenger, in fact.
What many here seem to miss is that this is the government interfering in a form of creative expression. The MPAA is just like the ESRB. It's not a legally-backed organization. Ratings on films are simply guidelines, and theatres are under no legal obligation to enforce them. They do so because it's expected, and it's a form of self-policing that has become something of a social contract between the movie industry and the public.
Stepping in and making it actually illegal to sell M-rated games to minors removes the medium from the arena of creative (protected) expression and turns it into contraband. M-rated games are not cigarettes, alcohol or pornography, and the comparison is inane to begin with. To have laws governing their distribution, complete with punitive measures, is ridiculous, and the fact that more of you aren't absolutely appalled by this is goddamn scary. This is the government flatly stepping in and saying, "We'll be the parents now." I'll be fairly surprised if this passes constitutional muster.
Those dismissing the idea that M-rated games will be phased out or no longer carried on store shelves are missing the mark. Nobody's saying that the loss of minors as M-rated game customers is going to shut down the M-rated game market financially. The worry is that once actual fines and penalties are affixed to selling M-rated games to minors, most retailers will simply cease to carry the M-rated titles because they don't want to take the risk of incurring fines due to negligent employees. It's a foolproof solution if you want to keep your business out of legal hot water regarding the issue. This has not happened with R-rated films because if a video store sells a minor an R-rated film, the worst that will happen is the parent will bring it back and complain to the manager. If that video store had to answer to the government every time some braindead register biscuit forgot to check ID when renting The Matrix, R-rated films would possibly become less common in your average Blockbuster.
whether that's true or not doesn't matter because there are people who believe it to be true, which is then enough reason for people to bring up those bullshit lawsuits where the parents try to blame game companies and loud music for little timmy going on a killing spree in his school. This new legislation will protect game companies as much as it protects kids (whether you believe the kids need protecting or not from mature content is another issue). Besides, I already stated my belief that the medium is irrelevant and that it's the content that can be a cause for concern when developing children are exposed to it.MattKeil said:
and video game retailers have failed at that self-policing and broke the "social contract" as you call it, so steps had to be taken to pull the video game market in line.MattKeil said:
it's only contraband to those who are deemed too young for the content though.MattKeil said:
Interesting that pornography gets thrown in there. It's certainly not physically damaging like cigarettes and alcohol can be, yet you certainly wouldn't want you kids viewing it, which is sort of the point of not allowing children to access/buy unsuitable video games.MattKeil said:
I don't see why I should be appalled. Kids with irresponsible parents wont be able to buy games unsuitable for them, yet I'll still be able to buy any game i want.MattKeil said:
It's really no more severe than other laws the government has in place to protect children as best they can, without actually stepping into people's homes and policing the things they do.MattKeil said:
The huge amount of revenue generated by M rated games like GTA would far outweigh the odd fine here and there incurred by negligent employees. You can bet your bottom dollar retailers will continue to stock M rated games, risk or no risk, as long as the revenue they generate exceeds the losses incurred by fines (which I can tell you right now, they will). And the number of fines will reduce more and more as the retail industry adapts and managers crack down on their employees to carry out their duties properly.MattKeil said:
Honestly, I think you're just being paranoid. The world wont fall down around you because of this and I honestly don't feel it's anything worth getting worked up over. I think that people are just so use to the video game industry being victimised and villanised that any change is seen as negative and restricive to the field, as though we have to gather the troops and fight for it.
Anyway, I'd actually like to read what people in the industry (retailers, developers and publishers) have to say about this.
You are right, they do simply convey ideas, but still wouldnt it be better if they couldnt convey these messages to impressionable children?
Even if your argument that stores will be affraid to stock M rated games because of fines was valid (which it isnt, Europe already has similar laws and theres still 18+ rated content everywhere), i dont see how the need for M rated content outweighs the need to protect children from being exposed to violence (no matter what the psychological effects of that exposure might be).
Korranator
Member
Exactly how is Hilary a liberal again?
What's worse is that this is transparent pandering. I honestly don't know what's up with her anymore, if she's trying to become Lieberman With Tits, it will fail miserably on the national stage; he's not exactly the best Democratic candidate.
I do admire the cojones, though. Take-Two/Rockstar is based in New York City, I guess they won't be giving too much to her campaign this year.
I do admire the cojones, though. Take-Two/Rockstar is based in New York City, I guess they won't be giving too much to her campaign this year.
If the bill is high, of course it could make some store carry less Mrated games or only pre-selling them.
Let me tell you that to refund a 2000$ charge you gotta sell a shitload of GTASA.
2000$ is fictive here of course but it's just that those charge could intimidate some speciality store. For those small stores, the bill may be scary. Wallmart won't give that's for sure.
Let me tell you that to refund a 2000$ charge you gotta sell a shitload of GTASA.
2000$ is fictive here of course but it's just that those charge could intimidate some speciality store. For those small stores, the bill may be scary. Wallmart won't give that's for sure.
Well, there are statements from Doug Lowenstein of the ESA and Hal Halpin of the IEMA out there, neither of which are in support of this legislation...scrow said:
Doug says:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gamepolitics/146225.html#cutid1
And Hal says:
http://pspupdates.qj.net/2005/11/iema-responds-to-federal-videogame.html
shoplifter
Member
By that logic, I shouldn't care whether the drinking age is lowered to 18 (as it should be)
From Hilary Clinton's press release:
I can't tell if this is a recommendation or mandated. But if it does mandate change to the ESRB then this is the bad part of the legislation. It has little to do with ensuring kids don't get M rated games and everything to do with making more M rated games AO rated games, ensuring that they'll never be able to be sold.
I think from this article it's fairly clear what their opinions of current M rated games are.
I can't tell if this is a recommendation or mandated. But if it does mandate change to the ESRB then this is the bad part of the legislation. It has little to do with ensuring kids don't get M rated games and everything to do with making more M rated games AO rated games, ensuring that they'll never be able to be sold.
I think from this article it's fairly clear what their opinions of current M rated games are.
CarlosX360
Banned
No. I was a teenager, when I started playing Mortal Kombat (started with arcade, then home consoles), and I'm still here, no criminal record, nothing.chaostrophy said:
Diablos said:5+ years ago this would have pissed me off to no end, but now that I'm 22... sorry to hear the news kids, but it doesn't mean a damn thing to me.
PhoenixDark: Come on, it's not like Clinton is the only politican with an agenda that may seem somewhat selfish. It's just that I don't think she feels like she has much to hide.
You don't want another four years of a Republican White House...
I'm amazed how naive some people are here. "Oh, this isn't censorship, this wont negatively affect the game industry, LOL I'm 22 who cares?"
If you enjoy playing good games this law affects you.
Kobun Heat
Member
Not for nothin', but I just timed myself finding the contact page for Hillary Clinton starting from a Google search and it took me literally seven seconds.ToyMachine228 said:
Kobun Heat
Member
THANK YOU.MattKeil said: