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HFW is proof that 30fps needs to die.

TrueLegend

Member
Honestly, I've never understood how people can stand to play games at 30fps, but those people exist. This has been widely discussed here in the past on GAF. They like the boost in fidelity vs increased frames. Not me. Not at all. But disagreements on personal preferences are the reason personalized options exist. I'd no more take away their option to play in quality mode than I'd want them to be able to take away my ability to play at higher frame rates.
But bro thats the thing bad habits need to die to make space for good ones. This whole preference thing is the myth. Most of the disagreement arise from people who have not yet transitioned to next gen or are playing to switch, to which this post does not respond to because those system cant do 60 fps due to lack of cpu power compared to gpu power which is not the case with XSX or PS5 since RDNA2 is pretty powerful. Pretty much all games will run into GPU bottleneck before CPU bottleneck, Returnal is a prime example of this. Modern displays without vrr require multiple of 30 so if going to 60fps meant extremely severe and by that i meant if your games started to look like the ones from 80s the argument to stick to 30 was understandable, with modern consoles its simply not. The visual advantages of 30fps are extremely meagre infront of properly implemented 60fps mode.
 
I still play on a PS4 with a 1080p, no frills television. It’s a “6 inches is enough” sort of thing. I know I can possibly do better but I don’t really care to.
 

Hunnybun

Member
The more I think about HFW's peculiar case the more I wonder how much VFX is currently being left on the table in the fidelity mode in pursuit of native 4k. On my oled tv, 30fps looks blurrier than the performance mode EVEN WHEN I'M STANDING STILL since other assets in the scene continue in motion. Imagine how much lighting and other vfx could improve if 1800 CB with the revamped TAA was used for the fidelity mode? Naughty Dog sorta has the right idea with their native 1440p approach, although it would be great if they coupled it with nice reconstruction method as I can detect the IQ deficiencies of a 1440p game with no reconstruction when viewing on my TV.

TL;DR: I want developers to pursue smart choices, not marketing specs.

Fwiw I think the best overall visuals would be achieved by 40fps with RTGI (if possible, and suitable) at 1080p-1440p DRS plus GOOD reconstruction like Insomniac's, and leveraging the CPU for loads of amazing dynamic effects like weather, destruction, physics, fluid and fire and particles etc.

Then you're using everything the consoles to really construct an amazing and immersive spectacle.
 

Topher

Gold Member
But bro thats the thing bad habits need to die to make space for good ones. This whole preference thing is the myth. Most of the disagreement arise from people who have not yet transitioned to next gen or are playing to switch, to which this post does not respond to because those system cant do 60 fps due to lack of cpu power compared to gpu power which is not the case with XSX or PS5 since RDNA2 is pretty powerful. Pretty much all games will run into GPU bottleneck before CPU bottleneck, Returnal is a prime example of this. Modern displays without vrr require multiple of 30 so if going to 60fps meant extremely severe and by that i meant if your games started to look like the ones from 80s the argument to stick to 30 was understandable, with modern consoles its simply not. The visual advantages of 30fps are extremely meagre infront of properly implemented 60fps mode.

I get what you are saying, but I can't force anyone to see what I see. Maybe if those people spend enough time playing 60fps they will get it, but then again, maybe they won't. I don't know. Everyone's eyes are different. My hope is that now that 60fps is pretty much a standard option in consoles that people will start choosing that option more often and 30fps will just fade away in time. As it is right now though, plenty of people still want that image fidelity boost. Again.....I don't get it, but I also don't think dictating this stuff is the right way to go.
 

metaverse

Member
To focus on 30fps instead of in 60fps allows them to show better visuals.

Better visuals help to sell the game, 60fps on most genres like an open world game not. Most players don't care about having 60fps games on single player open world games / third person action adventures. 60fps are important instead for games that require fast and precise controls like competitive fighting games or fps.

Many current AAA are getting 60fps or even 120fps because they are crossgen games made mostly for the previous gen consoles, so they have room to run faster on the new gen consoles, or which is basically the same: they are next gen only games running on a game engine and specs that are basically from the previous gen. Over time as we see games using game engines focused on next gen that really take advantage of the next gen we'll see increased the amount that goes back to 30fps to again prioritize high end visuals at 30fps over mediocre/average/poor visuals at 60fps.
Nope. Last gen didn’t really give an option of either 60 or 30 on consoles. This current gen has. Data shows, most gamers prefer 60 over 30 FPS regardless of genre.
 
1440 @ 40 fps ala Ratchet/Spiderman MM is a very good balance: 60 fps can be hard to achieve in these graphically demanding AAA titles, which have a "mandate" to showcase the capabilities of the machine; and 4k is, imo, a waste of resources in most cases.
40Hz mode is 4K, not 1440p
 

LongFarGone

Neo Member
Since getting a capable PC, I must admit anything below 60 Frames is shockingly bad. Trying to play Fallout 4 from my PS5 collection was so bad I immediately booted my PC and bought the GoTY Edition for £11 (loving these Steam sales). Now running it at 120 FPS, 30 is a pathetic slideshow and I cannot unsee it. On console, if I have to choose between RT or FPS option, it's going to be 60 frames or it's going in the bin.
 

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Insomniac literally said that vast majority prefers performance mode.
Yeah but when I switch modes while my brother goes to the toilet and him not noticing....begs the question
Are they really choosing performance for the right reasons or because they read posts like yours...

And no I'm not saying you can't tell the difference, it obvious to me but to most....not so much.
I mean you know how many people watch TV with motion+/flow etc on?
 

metaverse

Member
Yeah but when I switch modes while my brother goes to the toilet and him not noticing....begs the question
Are they really choosing performance for the right reasons or because they read posts like yours...

And no I'm not saying you can't tell the difference, it obvious to me but to most....not so much.
I mean you know how many people watch TV with motion+/flow etc on?
Solid data point.

Your brothers lack of ability to perceive changes > Insomniacs data mining of what mode gamers choose when they play their games.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
Mostly choose 60fps over 30fps, but calling anyone liking 30fps over 60fps modes retards then I think you need to take a step back there. Before you know it, someone would say 24fps movies should die and we should only see movies in 60fps.

IMO it's more about how it feels and less about how it looks. 60 feels MUCH, MUCH smoother and more responsive. It also looks better (better motion clarity), but the difference in feel is the biggest thing for sure, which is also why the same argument can't be applied to movies.
 
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Swift_Star

Member
I get what you are saying, but I can't force anyone to see what I see. Maybe if those people spend enough time playing 60fps they will get it, but then again, maybe they won't. I don't know. Everyone's eyes are different. My hope is that now that 60fps is pretty much a standard option in consoles that people will start choosing that option more often and 30fps will just fade away in time. As it is right now though, plenty of people still want that image fidelity boost. Again.....I don't get it, but I also don't think dictating this stuff is the right way to go.
People simply have different priorities. Some people can’t bear the visual downgrades and some can’t bear low fps. And that’s perfectly fine. I just don’t understand why some have to insult people that have different priorities or standards than themselves. It’s easier to just accept that people are different and that devs won’t cater to you because you’re just one of millions that will buy their games.
 

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Solid data point.

Your brothers lack of ability to perceive changes > Insomniacs data mining of what mode gamers choose when they play their games.
You're right it's just my brother, silly me 👍
Come on dude I've had people ask me if COD has a performance mode 🙄
You missing the point by discarding the facts because I used an example...
Justin Timberlake What GIF

Their data mining mean shit if the player's are selecting it because they've been told to.
Either way in the end their will be only one 😂
 
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I recently tried return to Arkham on ps5 and I thought it being a remaster of a PS3 game we'd get at least get 60fps..nope.

30fps really is ugly and is becoming nearly unplayable for me.
 

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
IMO it's more about how it feels and less about how it looks. 60 feels MUCH, MUCH smoother and more responsive. It also looks better (better motion clarity), but the difference in feel is the biggest thing for sure, which is also why the same argument can't be applied to movies.

Seen some clips of that Will Smith movie in 60fps, and to be honest it looked pretty clean and nice. First you feel awkward but then you kinda dig it.

When 60fps graphics is close to 30fps then 60fps is no brainer for gaming, indeed. For videography I started leaning 60fps but then seen problems with LED lights that ruin the footage and pigged back to 24fps. Also 24fps lets in more light. So now it's a case by case situation. When you watch footage in 4K HDR 60fps or even 8K you feel like you're literally living that moment/scene!
 
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Represent.

Member
Lol. The game looks galaxies better in the 30fps mode. Thats how it should be played. Thats how it feels/looks next gen.

The 60fps performance mode was an afterthought. Shit wasn't even playable until a week ago.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
As someone who HATES 30 fps and will not buy a console game that only supports that option, I will say that 40 fps that games like Spiderman and R&C have taken advantage of are GOD send in terms of awesomeness. Its not better than 60 fps, but its pretty remarkable how much better an extra 10 fps does in terms of smoothness.
 

bitbydeath

Member
No wonder not a single Unreal 5 game has released so far, it was an impressive demo but capping framerates at 30fps was a major sacrifice to make.
I recall people arguing, thinking it was 60FPS at the time. 30FPS and 60FPS isn’t as discernible as some people think when it’s locked.
 
I recall people arguing, thinking it was 60FPS at the time. 30FPS and 60FPS isn’t as discernible as some people think when it’s locked.
I find it drastically easier to tell 30fps from 60fps than to tell 1440p from native 4K.

With that said locked 30fps doesn't bother me when playing with a controller in most games. But if the game lets you chose between 60fps and 30fps you feel a massive difference when you switch.

Locked 30fps with a mouse tho? Not even once. First person games in general suffer massively from being 30fps.
 
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JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
30fps is only shit when you've experienced the same or a similar game at 60fps (or higher but I found the jump from 60fps to 120hz/144hz etc to be less impressive/useful than the jump from 30fps to 60fps. Funnily enough I was more impressed with general desktop browsing at 165hz rather than gaming at 165hz).

Ever since I tried BOTW at 60fps (regardless of the resolution) via CEMU, I just cannot stand playing it on my Switch. That said, after about 30 minutes I find that my eyes just get used to it and it becomes less annoying.
Yeah, dropping from 60 to 30 is painful. But after you get used to it, it's less offensive. Nevertheless, I wont buy a game that will be stuck at 30 fps on consoles.

Having said that 40 fps is drastically less offensive than 60.
 

Jaybe

Gold Member
TrueLegend TrueLegend A crossgen game that actually included a 60fps mode is not “proof 30fps needs to die”. I mean dislike 30fps if you do, but singling out HFW of all games as “the proof” seems… retarded?
 

Reizo Ryuu

Member
Seen some clips of that Will Smith movie in 60fps, and to be honest it looked pretty clean and nice. First you feel awkward but then you kinda dig it.
The 60 fps version of gemini man did feel a bit off, but you should really see it in 120fps; it might've been the most beautiful thing I've seen in movies, it was like looking though a window.
 

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
The 60 fps version of gemini man did feel a bit off, but you should really see it in 120fps; it might've been the most beautiful thing I've seen in movies, it was like looking though a window.

Problem is most cameras can't handle low light properly, and I mean cinema cameras with global shutter. So you'll see most Hollywood elites fighting back, especially ARRI and RED zealots.
 

Hunnybun

Member
As someone who HATES 30 fps and will not buy a console game that only supports that option, I will say that 40 fps that games like Spiderman and R&C have taken advantage of are GOD send in terms of awesomeness. Its not better than 60 fps, but its pretty remarkable how much better an extra 10 fps does in terms of smoothness.

It is indeed very very impressive. Probably about 75% as good as the increase to 60fps.

I tend to use those modes now, even though the extra clarity is pretty hard to notice.
 

Fredrik

Gold Member
30fps is coming back to consoles. You already saw it in the matrix demo.
Yeah I too fear it’ll happen. Not just with UE5, we’ve already seen it in MS Flight Sim, The Medium, Watch Dogs Legion at launch, I think Starfield will be 30fps as well.
 

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
They need to sit their asses down and embrace the 120fps future.
Basketball Ok GIF by Malcolm France

I think it's hard for them. They'll need to embrace rolling shutter, that alone will fuck up all their expensive tools and render them useless and start using consumer-level cameras, which are at least 10x more powerful than cinema cameras in low light. Would their ego allow that? Not sure.
 

Lethal01

Member
No wonder not a single Unreal 5 game has released so far, it was an impressive demo but capping framerates at 30fps was a major sacrifice to make.

That would be because the engine has only been offcially released for a few months, games kinda take a while to make.
 
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