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HFW is proof that 30fps needs to die.

Jimmy_liv

Member
I mean the world doesnt revolve around you

the exact way you feel, there is as many people who feel same way for quality modes in games.

learn to accept other points of view, you will be less angry
This!

I played right through HFW at 30fps and it was fine.
But unlike the OP gobshite I'm aware that others have opinions which matter too
 

Gusy

Member
Bro, I dont get angry at games, gamers, gaming forums, people at gaming forums etc. Its just a way of expression. You have probably not met people who can say fuck that guy while smiling. Its the way gordon ramsay expresses himself. Its not anger, I am just trying to say that it is stupid to die on 30fps hill because 30 fps entered in gaming domain because of imbalanced apu design which allowed for significantly higher gpu power than their cpu counterpart and there is absolutely no reason to let it continue in current day and age even with unreal engine 5 on horizon. We have technology like FSR 2.0. How much better a 4k30 fps games look against a 1440p60 counterpart. The very existence of unreal engine 5 proves otherwise. I love 4k, I play on PC with 4KHDR monitor mainly but Current state of games and game engines simply dont add much at just being 4k at sacrifice of 60fps. If you have heard of TotalBiscuit and his 60fps video you will get that my expression is still very mild. This thread is made in the loving memory of


Ok.. prove that the PS5 could run the UE5 Matrix demo @ 1080p with a locked 60 without sacrificing anything else. Who are you to determine what works best for any given game given budget and hardware constraints? What if Cinematic Games LLC wants to make a Superman game with the level of fidelity of that city in the UE5 demo. You could argue that pushing visual fidelity (Which is much more than just boosting pixel counts) has had as much of a positive impact on the industry than aiming for fluidity and motion clarity.

The original Halo, GTA trilogy, GTA V, Resident Evil 4, Skyrim, Super Mario 64, ... shit Golden Eye ran at sub 15 fps in multiplayer back in the day. Every one of those games broke new ground.. had huge success and played pretty great. Every single on of thos games could have been made targeting 60.. with who knows the fuckton of sacrifices that each of them would have had. 60 fps GTA V on a XBOX 360.. sure.. enjoy your blurry mess with N64 levels of draw distance. Leave those decisions to the guys that are busting their asses making the best video game they can make...

Belive me when I tell you, I consider 60 fps gameplay objectively better than 30. Im a framerate nut myself. To me the difference is night and day. And I wish every game offered a performance option, because thats a no brainer for me. But why would I want to limit the scope of a Rockstar open world that pushes the boundaries of photorealism.. if that's what they want to make. There's a place for that kind of game too.

The problem is not debating wether 60 is better than 30. Of course it is... I think the problem lies more in the douchebaggy and entitled approach you choose to tackle this discusion, like every soul on the planet has 1500$ in cash under the bed to build a gaming PC. There's nothing contentious about this shit.. this is Video Games we are talking about here. Chill out a bit.. let people have options.. Let devs decide the fucking games they wanna make. Peace
 

Hestar69

Member
30fps is only shit when you've experienced the same or a similar game at 60fps (or higher but I found the jump from 60fps to 120hz/144hz etc to be less impressive/useful than the jump from 30fps to 60fps. Funnily enough I was more impressed with general desktop browsing at 165hz rather than gaming at 165hz).

Ever since I tried BOTW at 60fps (regardless of the resolution) via CEMU, I just cannot stand playing it on my Switch. That said, after about 30 minutes I find that my eyes just get used to it and it becomes less annoying.
same..playing it on 60 fps and with the weapon breaking and unlimited stamina made me LOVE BOTW so much more.

as for HFW I played it on my airplane pro and it made me motion sick...

FINALLY got aps5 and tried it at 60 fps and it made the game so much more enjoyable...

So I agree, 30 fps needs to go away.
 

TrueLegend

Member
Ok.. prove that the PS5 could run the UE5 Matrix demo @ 1080p with a locked 60 without sacrificing anything else. Who are you to determine what works best for any given game given budget and hardware constraints? What if Cinematic Games LLC wants to make a Superman game with the level of fidelity of that city in the UE5 demo. You could argue that pushing visual fidelity (Which is much more than just boosting pixel counts) has had as much of a positive impact on the industry than aiming for fluidity and motion clarity.

The original Halo, GTA trilogy, GTA V, Resident Evil 4, Skyrim, Super Mario 64, ... shit Golden Eye ran at sub 15 fps in multiplayer back in the day. Every one of those games broke new ground.. had huge success and played pretty great. Every single on of thos games could have been made targeting 60.. with who knows the fuckton of sacrifices that each of them would have had. 60 fps GTA V on a XBOX 360.. sure.. enjoy your blurry mess with N64 levels of draw distance. Leave those decisions to the guys that are busting their asses making the best video game they can make...

Belive me when I tell you, I consider 60 fps gameplay objectively better than 30. Im a framerate nut myself. To me the difference is night and day. And I wish every game offered a performance option, because thats a no brainer for me. But why would I want to limit the scope of a Rockstar open world that pushes the boundaries of photorealism.. if that's what they want to make. There's a place for that kind of game too.

The problem is not debating wether 60 is better than 30. Of course it is... I think the problem lies more in the douchebaggy and entitled approach you choose to tackle this discusion, like every soul on the planet has 1500$ in cash under the bed to build a gaming PC. There's nothing contentious about this shit.. this is Video Games we are talking about here. Chill out a bit.. let people have options.. Let devs decide the fucking games they wanna make. Peace
Maybe you need to just fucking read dude. How much difference between between visual quality is there between 30fps and 60fps modern games dude. We are past the point in terms of CPU power. Infact you argument is what highlights the merit of what am i asking UE5 is currently heavily single threaded and has many issues. Now if we stick to lazy people who are happy at 30fps we wont see any upgrade but we have coalition who have asked the unreal team to optimize the engine even more so that they can achive it. Its all about putting the energy in right direction. Idtech, RE engine wouldn't be possible with that kind of thinking. No game has ever suffered from taking 60fps as basis from start, the only reason it was not approached in past was due to CPU limitations but now CPU's are crazy powerful the real bottleneck are engines. You can put twice the gpu power in PS5 and it will still not bottleneck the CPU in PS5 which was the opposite for Xbox OneX and PS4. Stop living in lala land. It is contentious topic, why do you think so many people have replied on this thread. Maybe you need to chill and have people talk their mind.
 
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Gusy

Member
Maybe you need to just fucking read dude. How much difference between between visual quality is there between 30fps and 60fps modern games dude. We are past the point in terms of CPU power. Infact you argument is what highlights the merit of what am i asking UE5 is currently heavily single threaded and has many issues. Now if we stick to lazy people who are happy at 30fps we wont see any upgrade but we have coalition who have asked the unreal team to optimize the engine even more so that they can achive it. Its all about putting the energy in right direction. Idtech, RE engine wouldn't be possible with that kind of thinking. No game has ever suffered from taking 60fps as basis from start, the only reason it was not approached in passed was due to CPU limitations but now CPU's are crazy powerful the real bottleneck are engines. You can put twice the gpu power in PS5 and it will still not bottleneck the CPU in PS5 which was the opposite for Xbox OneX and PS4. Stop living in lala land. It is contentious topic, why do you think so many people have replied on this thread. Maybe you need to chill and have people talk their mind.

Well that's bullshit because if any of those idtech, RE Engine, games was made targeting 30 fps from the beggining.. Who knows the incredible things those extra 16 ms of processing would have afforded. You'll never know... And pretending you do is what makes your take feel entitled. Options my man.. There is space for everything.
 

TrueLegend

Member
Well that's bullshit because if any of those idtech, RE Engine, games was made targeting 30 fps from the beggining.. Who knows the incredible things those extra 16 ms of processing would have afforded. You'll never know... And pretending you do is what makes your take feel entitled. Options my man.. There is space for everything.
Again you should read, all things are out in open, both of those engines were made from ground up for 60fps first. The ignorance is quite strong with you.
 

Swift_Star

Member
I am not Gen Z. Stop assuming shit and making up stories. And if you have nothing to talk about topic stop doing personal attacks. Its you who needs to grow up.
Calls an entire group of people retarded.
Alanis Morissette Reaction GIF by MOODMAN
 
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Gusy

Member
Again you should read, all things are out in open, both of those engines were made from ground up for 60fps first. The ignorance is quite strong with you.

Again.. what if they halved that framerate and boosted those visuals.. ... is that like forbidden on IdTech or something? Don't you realize that gaining those milliseconds would allow for a million different visual options that those games don't have? I may be ignorant.. but I still have a bit of common sense, which you seem to lack right now.
 

TrueLegend

Member
Again.. what if they halved that framerate and boosted those visuals.. ... is that like forbidden on IdTech or something? Don't you realize that gaining those milliseconds would allow for a million different visual options that those games don't have? I may be ignorant.. but I still have a bit of common sense, which you seem to lack right now.
Yes by the defination of your common sense we should be running games at 15 frames per sound. You are simply assuming that the tradeoff to achive 60 fps is always massive. In cases it is massive at that level i have already replied about that, which is why again you should read. Just because it can show four fire sparks instead of two shouldn't be a reason for immediately dialing to 30 which you are referring to as common sense. Thats not common sense thats the opposite of it, its nonsense.
 

TrueLegend

Member
Calls an entire group of people retarded.
Alanis Morissette Reaction GIF by MOODMAN
You should learn the meaning of ironic, targeting a group is what you do on a debate which by its very notion suggests two sides with different opinions going about it. Singling out a person and speaking on him outside the topic is personal attack. Maybe you didnt know of the basics of discussions, I am not suprised.
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
If you think that once cross gen period ends that 30fps won't be all over the next videogames you're...wrong.

I can't wait until we go from "oh i'm sick of cross gen games" to "i can't believe 30fps are the norm again" lmao.
Yup and I actually want to see some games push visuals to the max at 30 fps
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Yes by the defination of your common sense we should be running games at 15 frames per sound. You are simply assuming that the tradeoff to achive 60 fps is always massive. In cases it is massive at that level i have already replied about that, which is why again you should read. Just because it can show four fire sparks instead of two shouldn't be a reason for immediately dialing to 30 which you are referring to as common sense. Thats not common sense thats the opposite of it, its nonsense.
A game designed for 30 fps gives developers double the time (33.3ms) to render graphics which need a lot of speed

If every game was designed for 60 fps this generation, we wouldn't see as big of a jump in visuals

But we'll definitely get more 30 fps games with these new next gen engines and no cross gen
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
60 is easy for cross-gen. Now once games start REALLY taking advantage of the new hardware (the CPUs in particular, which we haven't really seen pushed at all yet), maybe not as easy. Of course it's all about priorities, but some people here seem to believe that the dev can always simply choose 60 if they want to, but in some cases that might not be true. In general, GPU stuff is easy to scale, CPU stuff not so much.
This

Excited Lets Go GIF
 

Umbasaborne

Member
60 fps is always going to be objectively superior to quality modes, its just a fact. I hope they remove quality modes all together. 30fps is disgusting,

truly unplayable trash. I would never take advice from people who play games at 30 fps. 1.) they must have shite taste in games, and 2.) they must be laughably terrible at all video games.


In case it wasn’t obvious…./s
Op just let people play the way they like, who cares?
 

MikeM

Member
Ok.. prove that the PS5 could run the UE5 Matrix demo @ 1080p with a locked 60 without sacrificing anything else. Who are you to determine what works best for any given game given budget and hardware constraints? What if Cinematic Games LLC wants to make a Superman game with the level of fidelity of that city in the UE5 demo. You could argue that pushing visual fidelity (Which is much more than just boosting pixel counts) has had as much of a positive impact on the industry than aiming for fluidity and motion clarity.

The original Halo, GTA trilogy, GTA V, Resident Evil 4, Skyrim, Super Mario 64, ... shit Golden Eye ran at sub 15 fps in multiplayer back in the day. Every one of those games broke new ground.. had huge success and played pretty great. Every single on of thos games could have been made targeting 60.. with who knows the fuckton of sacrifices that each of them would have had. 60 fps GTA V on a XBOX 360.. sure.. enjoy your blurry mess with N64 levels of draw distance. Leave those decisions to the guys that are busting their asses making the best video game they can make...

Belive me when I tell you, I consider 60 fps gameplay objectively better than 30. Im a framerate nut myself. To me the difference is night and day. And I wish every game offered a performance option, because thats a no brainer for me. But why would I want to limit the scope of a Rockstar open world that pushes the boundaries of photorealism.. if that's what they want to make. There's a place for that kind of game too.

The problem is not debating wether 60 is better than 30. Of course it is... I think the problem lies more in the douchebaggy and entitled approach you choose to tackle this discusion, like every soul on the planet has 1500$ in cash under the bed to build a gaming PC. There's nothing contentious about this shit.. this is Video Games we are talking about here. Chill out a bit.. let people have options.. Let devs decide the fucking games they wanna make. Peace
The difference is that CRT was incredible for masking the low framerate.
 

Gusy

Member
The difference is that CRT was incredible for masking the low framerate.
Yep.. god bless CRT's. I love them to death.. also.. that's why I also mentioned GTA V and Skyrim. Both games released on the "HD" era.... If you wann tell me that Skyrim sold almost 9 million copies on Xbox 360 alone out of pure luck and marketing, well shit, be my guest.
 

yurinka

Member
Nope. Last gen didn’t really give an option of either 60 or 30 on consoles. This current gen has. Data shows, most gamers prefer 60 over 30 FPS regardless of genre.
Data says historically most best selling open world games and third person action adventure were 30fps games and out of hundreds of millions who bought these games only a few guys complained about no 60fps in forums.
 

ZywyPL

Banned
Does anyone here remembers how CoD used to be trashed for its graphics back in the PS360 days? It was constantly being conpated with Battlefield, Crysis, Killzone and the likes, but the end result turned out to be their code was already optimized for 60FPS, and once PS4/XB1 showed up they could just focus on inproving the visuals.

So I think in the longer term it would be beneficial for us all if the devs focused on framerate first and foremost, and then boost the visuals. Especially nowadays when you can get back that rendering time by lowering the resolution and upscaling the image

Also - Doom shows that you can actually achieve both framerate, visual fidelity, and image quality. But then again, not every engine dev is John Carmack.
 

ChiefDada

Member
Honestly, I've never understood how people can stand to play games at 30fps, but those people exist. This has been widely discussed here in the past on GAF. They like the boost in fidelity vs increased frames. Not me. Not at all. But disagreements on personal preferences are the reason personalized options exist. I'd no more take away their option to play in quality mode than I'd want them to be able to take away my ability to play at higher frame rates.

It really depends on how the game modes are designed. RC is perfect example. The 60fps mode reduces enough vfx and enhanced lighting that the higher frame rate actually becomes a negative by making the game look too game-y. The opposite is true for a game like HFW, where vfx settings are virtually the same and the performance mode is the "no brainer" for me.
 
30fps is only shit when you've experienced the same or a similar game at 60fps (or higher but I found the jump from 60fps to 120hz/144hz etc to be less impressive/useful than the jump from 30fps to 60fps. Funnily enough I was more impressed with general desktop browsing at 165hz rather than gaming at 165hz).
Does the gpu do this automatically if you hook a high refresh monitor? or do you have to set it up somewhere.
 

clarky

Member
30fps is trash gaming. I can stomach it if I have to, but it's like asking someone if they have anything to drink(booze) and all they have in fridge is malt liquor.
Hey! some people love malt liquor................ They just have no taste.
 

Justin9mm

Member
I can't really do 30fps anymore on current gen console but I would take it over 1080p / 60 as it really looks like ass playing on my 85 inch TV.

As long as its minimum 1440p / 60 we good. It comes down to the dev and how good they can optimise as XSX & PS5 are more than capable.
 

bitbydeath

Member
Maybe you need to just fucking read dude. How much difference between between visual quality is there between 30fps and 60fps modern games dude. We are past the point in terms of CPU power. Infact you argument is what highlights the merit of what am i asking UE5 is currently heavily single threaded and has many issues. Now if we stick to lazy people who are happy at 30fps we wont see any upgrade but we have coalition who have asked the unreal team to optimize the engine even more so that they can achive it. Its all about putting the energy in right direction. Idtech, RE engine wouldn't be possible with that kind of thinking. No game has ever suffered from taking 60fps as basis from start, the only reason it was not approached in past was due to CPU limitations but now CPU's are crazy powerful the real bottleneck are engines. You can put twice the gpu power in PS5 and it will still not bottleneck the CPU in PS5 which was the opposite for Xbox OneX and PS4. Stop living in lala land. It is contentious topic, why do you think so many people have replied on this thread. Maybe you need to chill and have people talk their mind.
The visual quality isn’t there yet because it’s mostly been all cross-gen games. Once that gets dropped we’ll see much larger jumps in graphics.
 

Swift_Star

Member
can confirm as an actual member of Gen Z, we're not nearly as much of a douchebag as this guy and we understand that people have preferences
That should come as no surprise because the people that actually try to dictate the world has always been boomers or gen X
 

ParaSeoul

Member
I'd prefer we stay at lower resolutions and increase graphical fidelity like in the Matrix Awakens demo than waste that power on higher framerates.
Its what I said. Just get the resolution as high as you can while keeping graphical fidelity and frame rate. You don't have to choose. Optimization and hardware tricks can go a long way.
 

supernova8

Member
Does the gpu do this automatically if you hook a high refresh monitor? or do you have to set it up somewhere.
Sorry (forgive me if I misread your comment), what is "do this" referring to?

If you mean does the desktop switch to 165hz or something automatically, no you have to go into display settings and switch it to 165hz (or whatever the highest refresh rate available is). I noticed that before I installed proper nvidia drivers, it only let me go up to 120hz, and then after installing the drivers it gave me the full 165hz.

The best part is scrolling on browsers and how buttery smooth the cursor is on the screen. I have a dual monitor setup (for work) and my other monitor is only 60hz so I can instantly tell the difference (it's massive).
 

rofif

Gold Member
Hfw is proof that 30fps is fine and saved the game. I finished it this way and it played fine.
Your post is ban worthy is so stupid.
I like graphics and 30fps is fine if it’s not this super laggy demons souls remake type
 
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supernova8

Member
Yeah, dropping from 60 to 30 is painful. But after you get used to it, it's less offensive. Nevertheless, I wont buy a game that will be stuck at 30 fps on consoles.

Having said that 40 fps is drastically less offensive than 30 (?).

Yeah I fiddled around with the graphics pack settings and got BOTW to run around 40fps and you're right it actually looks pretty smooth (not as good as 60fps or higher but still fine). I suppose it's a case of every 1fps improvement being a big improvement until you hit diminishing returns.
 

TrueLegend

Member
Hfw is proof that 30fps is fine and saved the game. I finished it this way and it played fine.
Your post is ban worthy is so stupid.
I like graphics and 30fps is fine if it’s not this super laggy demons souls remake type
Keep it up, let us see who gets banned.
 

supernova8

Member
Nah, 30FPS is shit regardless, it only works thanks to motion blur, plus then added natural blur of LCD displays on top of that, but just playing on OLED makes it unbearable, and god forbid if you dare to disable the in-game motion blur.

Sure, your brain will eventually adjust and you'll be fine as long as you don't experience anything other, we've been watching 24p TV for decades after all before BFI became a thing, but isn't the whole idea of newer and never generations to be better, to progress, to advance, instead of staying in the same spot forever, or going backwards?

Oh yeah absolutely, but resolution and framerates are different things. I'm in the camp saying we could've capped resolutions at 1440p (instead of going for 4K when it's just going to hold us back for now) at then aimed for 60fps with really nice visuals rather than the inevitable situation we find ourselves in now where a lot of the games that are 4K60 (on console) are basically upscaled, slightly improved older games.

I suppose the counter is that "we haven't hit the true potential of these machines yet, it's all about those sexy SSDs, babyyyyyy" but I mean we're approaching 2 years in and there is very little to show for next-gen so far (that includes games released and games teased/revealed). If we're brutally honest, we've had Ratchet & Clank and that's about it... Summer Geoff Fest came and went (as did the Xbox showcase) and there was nothing remotely next-gen looking.

Maybe, if we said "OK 1440p, 30fps" there would be better visuals but................ honestly don't know where I'm going with this. Point is this newer generation hasn't given us much so far. Maybe it's more about the creativity/capability of the dev teams rather than raw power.
 

rofif

Gold Member
Keep it up, let us see who gets banned.
I am really surprised you are still here. Your thread is stupid and calls out other group of people who like something that is the least intrusive thing ever.
Putting 30fps cap on a game and raising resolution is the easiest thing ever.
If your precious 60fps mode sucks, it’s because of incompetent devs.

metaverse metaverse
And on a side note - horizon and uc4 remaster are the Only 30fps games I played this year. Everything else I opted for 60 because either 30 was not worth it or they botched it like 30fps limit in demons souls with it’s very very heavy buffered vsync. It’s like playing through cloud.
 

rofif

Gold Member
Depends on the display, on OLEDs there's noticeable stutter, on LCDs less so (Samsung has game motion plus to lower 30 fps stutter even more).
The stutter in more at 24 than 30.
And good motion blur really helps. I just finished uc4 remaster 4k30 and it played excellent! I am sensitive a bit to oled stutter in movies but uncharted was fine! Played really nice too.
Next play through will be in 4k on pc at 120.
 

rofif

Gold Member
I was definitely one who didn't really care about the 30 vs 60 fps. Both were fine.

After HFW... Not so sure anymore. I can't go back to 30 in that game.
It’s a weird 30 fps mode. It controls fine but it looks a bit stiff. I think motion blur is non existent or bad there.
But they fixed 60fps mode. Should be fine now
 

Crayon

Member
I just played a bunch of steel talons on a lynx. You can count the fps on one hand.

I've always considered 60fps as a default. Tons of games are way lower, though. There are many great old games with fucked up performance.
60 is way better, but a steady 30 is pretty good in the scheme of things.
 
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