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HDMI 2.1 issues on Panasonic chipset

j0hnnix

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Browsing around to begin updating my equipment for HDMI 2.1, I came across this article which is pretty important for those looking at updating thier AVRs this year.


HDMI 2.1 Bug

Yesterday a German audio website discovered a bug in the latest HDMI 2.1 chipsets sourced by Panasonic and utilized in the new Denon, Marantz and Yamaha HDMI 2.1 AV receivers. This bug can inhibit pass through of 4k/120Hz HDR and 8k/60 HDR for some devices like NVIDIA's newest graphics cards and the latest XBOX Series X gaming console.

What Hi-Fi Article


The glitch appears to affect 2020-launched AV receivers from Denon, Marantz and Yamaha. We've listed the models below but they all have one thing in common: the latest HDMI 2.1 chip.

The affected products are said to include: Marantz's new SR range (SR5015, SR6015, SR7015 and SR8015), Denon's X-series range (AVR-X2700H, AVC-X3700H, AVC-X4700H, AVC-X6700H) and Yamaha's RX-V4A and RX-V6A.

It's not all doom and gloom, though. Sound United, which owns Denon and Marantz, told Forbes it has already come up with a couple of workarounds and is "working tirelessly to release permanent solution" so that gamers can enjoy a full 4K@120Hz experience.

As many have mentioned this is related to AVR currently. Also, The PS5 uses a different chipset it has not been affected according to the new Article.
 
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j0hnnix

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exactly. I'm now holding off. at least until after December. Yamaha receivers will be testing their new firmware and possibly 2021 will have their Advantage receivers out by then. Let's see what comes of this for those that jumped to upgrade early, manufacturers will use those users as a test group, lots of returns will happen if denon , marantz, Yamaha have the faulty chipsets.
 

scraz

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Sony released the first patch 2.1 patch for the X900h about 10 days ago and its been kind of a shitshow. No VRR and HDR is "i think" disabled by 4k120. There is also a few other bugs i have been seeing since the patch I've worked around but i hope there is another update soon to fix this crap .
 

jigglet

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Wait how is it possible we got this far without MS or Sony realising? Were they all using dev kits with a Displayport? (presumably pre-production hardware would have connected via DisplayPort for the higher bandwidth + higher availability). This is the only scenario I can think of. Even an $80 monitor has DisplayPort 1.4 so I imagine 99% of testing was done on that.
 
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j0hnnix

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Wait how is it possible we got this far without MS or Sony realising? Were they all using dev kits with a Displayport? (presumably pre-production hardware would have connected via DisplayPort for the higher bandwidth + higher availability). This is the only scenario I can think of. Even an $80 monitor has DisplayPort 1.4 so I imagine 99% of testing was done on that.

Something to think about is some of these do not have the firmware implemented to enable hdmi 2.1 , so how was testing done.
 

jigglet

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Something to think about is some of these do not have the firmware implemented to enable hdmi 2.1 , so how was testing done.

Like I said I think all testing was done using DP. The main testing would have been done about 12-18 months back...there weren't any HDMI 2.1 options on the market at all. DP 1.4 has been around for ages, it's dirt cheap, and supports VRR, high refresh rates and HDR. I don't think either one could have even tested hdmi 2.1 until relatively recently, at which point they probably freaked out.
 
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jigglet

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I've seen dev kits in the past with all sorts of output options that were never in the final production model, like VGA, displayport etc. I can see how this all played out now. LOL what a screw up.
 

Evangelion Unit-01

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Yeah...I’m going to hold off on a new TV and receiver.

(Might should hold off on new consoles too)

PC build is full speed ahead as soon as AMD reviews come in and stock catches up.
 

ethomaz

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That is really bad if no software fix is found.
 

Justin9mm

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Whether its a new AVR or TV, I don't think anyone should be rushing out to upgrade until next gen consoles are released and HDMI 2.1 has been put through its paces.

I'm resisting the urge to upgrade and I think it will be worth it to wait at least until Q1-Q2 2021.
 
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JohnnyFootball

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I am using eARC with my C9. Not worrying about passthrough right now.

I'll have my PC, PS5 and XSX run directly into the TV and my receiver connected to the eARC HDMI port. The 4K player and Firestick run directly into the receiver to the TV.
 

Venuspower

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FYI: From what we know so far the PS5 is working just fine with 4K@120@HDR@VRR.
This is because there are different types/designs (whatever you want to call it) of FRL.
The type of FRL Sony is using is implemented correctly on those Panasonic chips.
Unfortunately NVIDIA and Microsoft are using the one that is incorrectly implemented.

Also note that this problem only starts to happen if you are using HDR in combination with 4K@120@VRR. If you are staying in SDR everything will work just fine. Of course this is just a workaround until they are fixing the whole stuff. But it might be helpful for people who cannot use eARC for whatever reason.

It will be interesting to see how manufacturers will handle this problem. Denon already announced
that they will provide a permanent solution (whatever this means). To me it looks like they will replace
the whole HDMI board. Most likely in 2021. They already replaced my DAC-PCB on my X6700H due
to the Covid-capacitors. And the whole process went really fast. I guess the same will go for the HDMI board.
 
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Magic Carpet

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Yikes. I've been championing HDMI 2.1 and it hurts to see this in such a bad state. Having bought my Samsung Q70 last year I already have issues with VRR and auto low latency and this is only 4K 60.
I was about to pull the trigger on a new AVR Denon 960h. I'm gonna wait now.
 

j0hnnix

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Yikes. I've been championing HDMI 2.1 and it hurts to see this in such a bad state. Having bought my Samsung Q70 last year I already have issues with VRR and auto low latency and this is only 4K 60.
I was about to pull the trigger on a new AVR Denon 960h. I'm gonna wait now.

 

FrankWza

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This is only for receivers though. TVs are fine. there’s barely any 2.1 receivers anyway and they’re priced too high. What sucks the most though is, unless this is firmware upgrade fixable, when next years models come out and these drop in price it won’t matter because everything from this year is not worth getting. So, for those looking for a price drop on previous year models, you’re looking at 2 year wait before any kind of bargain.
 

FrankWza

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Isn't this just the case of certain chipsets, and not HDMI 2.1 as a whole?

Yeah, it makes sense too. There’s a ton of information the receiver needs to process now at 2.1 plus all those audio formats and 4K-8k for movies. All with minimal lag. 2.1 is demanding
 

DGrayson

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Yeah, it makes sense too. There’s a ton of information the receiver needs to process now at 2.1 plus all those audio formats and 4K-8k for movies. All with minimal lag. 2.1 is demanding

True but this is generally high end gear. Most users have their consoles hooked direct to their TV or possibly a soundbar.

Those with dedicated AV recievers are usually willing to spent the cost of a console, a TV, or even higher on a true all in one solution for amazing sound, video/HDR passthrough, other features like bluetooth, multiroom audio, hell even radio receivers.

So its kind of annoying that they cant get this right, but yes I know there are a lot of things to think about.

Im not really a fan of ARC or eARC either. I just want all my devices to go through my one Receiver and let the receiver do all the work/passthroughs without me thinking about anything.
 
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Jigga117

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True but this is generally high end gear. Most users have their consoles hooked direct to their TV or possibly a soundbar.

Those with dedicated AV recievers are usually willing to spent the cost of a console, a TV, or even higher on a true all in one solution for amazing sound, video/HDR passthrough, other features like bluetooth, multiroom audio, hell even radio receivers.

So its kind of annoying that they cant get this right, but yes I know there are a lot of things to think about.

Im not really a fan of ARC or eARC either. I just want all my devices to go through my one Receiver and let the receiver do all the work/passthroughs without me thinking about anything.

You just described what EARC does in place of the old school method of having your devices go into the receiver. Plus if you got a PS5, Series X and PC going thru the receiver does you no good because non of the models have enough 2.1 ports. with EARC it makes since to plug those devices directly into the tv and not the receiver to avoid any lag and since EARC supports Atmos all we should care about is sound to the receiver and not taking the long fought just for a device to get picture back to the tv. That’s why the 2019/2020 OLEDs are so popular because you get 4 HDMI 2.1 ports vs other brands only offering 1 or 2
 
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FrankWza

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True but this is generally high end gear. Most users have their consoles hooked direct to their TV or possibly a soundbar.

Those with dedicated AV recievers are usually willing to spent the cost of a console, a TV, or even higher on a true all in one solution for amazing sound, video/HDR passthrough, other features like bluetooth, multiroom audio, hell even radio receivers.

So its kind of annoying that they cant get this right, but yes I know there are a lot of things to think about.

Im not really a fan of ARC or eARC either. I just want all my devices to go through my one Receiver and let the receiver do all the work/passthroughs without me thinking about anything.

Oh I agree. But the 2.1 update,especially for receivers, is unlike anything ever introduced in A/V circles. That’s why I said itIt sucks, but I’m not shocked that there’s issues. Hopefully, it ends up being software and they can update it vs a hardware issue. We still have possible next gen console audio issues to look forward to...that should be fun.
You just described what EARC does in place of the old school method of having your devices go into the receiver. Plus if you got a PS5, Series X and PC going thru the receiver does you no good because non of the models have enough 2.1 ports. with EARC it makes since to plug those devices directly into the tv and not the receiver to avoid any lag and since EARC supports Atmos all we should care about is sound to the receiver and not taking the long fought just for a device to get picture back to the tv. That’s why the 2019/2020 OLEDs are so popular because you get 4 HDMI 2.1 ports vs other brands only offering 1 or 2

He wants, and most would too if given the choice, to go through a receiver. I know earc and arc are a nice option for some, but for most it’s just too difficult for cable management and for wall mounters it’s impossible
 
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Tiamat2san

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Right now my tv can do only 4K 60fps.
I’ll keep an eye on the subject when I’ll change my tv in one or two years.

I hope the industry will have it’s shit figured by then.
 

FrankWza

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Right now my tv can do only 4K 60fps.
I’ll keep an eye on the subject when I’ll change my tv in one or two years.

I hope the industry will have it’s shit figured by then.
This is only for receivers though. TVs are fine. there’s barely any 2.1 receivers anyway and they’re priced too high. What sucks the most though is, unless this is firmware upgrade fixable, when next years models come out and these drop in price it won’t matter because everything from this year is not worth getting. So, for those looking for a price drop on previous year models, you’re looking at 2 year wait before any kind of bargain.
 

ThaMonkeyClaw

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Seems like something I won't be using anyway, but feel bad to whom affected. Let's see their test with PS5 if it's the same or not.

I have a brand new Denon AVR-X2700H that I bought along with my X900H, so I will definitely let everyone know once I get my hands on my PS5! I think it only affects games that are 4K/120 with HDR, but I may be wrong, so the issues with games will be limited and shouldn't affect movies at all if that info is correct.
 
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DGrayson

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You just described what EARC does in place of the old school method of having your devices go into the receiver. Plus if you got a PS5, Series X and PC going thru the receiver does you no good because non of the models have enough 2.1 ports. with EARC it makes since to plug those devices directly into the tv and not the receiver to avoid any lag and since EARC supports Atmos all we should care about is sound to the receiver and not taking the long fought just for a device to get picture back to the tv. That’s why the 2019/2020 OLEDs are so popular because you get 4 HDMI 2.1 ports vs other brands only offering 1 or 2


I disagree. First of course we have to start from the assumption the receiver is introducing no lag. Of course if it is then yes I will admit eARC makes sense.

Second assumption is that the receiver has enough ports for what you need.

Assuming you can get a reicever with the above 2 things (IE my Denon 3400 has no input lag and plenty of 40k 60hz ports) then I prefer to route through the receiver and let the receiver do the switching, rather than the TV. Why pay for a receiver with 8 inputs if you will only use one. Also I like to label inputs, have different profiles per input etc etc.
 
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FrankWza

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I have a brand new Denon AVR-X2700H that I bought along with my X900H, so I will definitely let everyone know once I get my hands on my PS5! I think it only affects games that are 4K/120 with HDR, but I may be wrong, so the issues with games will be limited and shouldn't affect movies at all if that info is correct.

please do. But there’s a good chance this will be patched by launch day. Nice setup by the way. Enjoy!
 

A.Romero

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Like I said I think all testing was done using DP. The main testing would have been done about 12-18 months back...there weren't any HDMI 2.1 options on the market at all. DP 1.4 has been around for ages, it's dirt cheap, and supports VRR, high refresh rates and HDR. I don't think either one could have even tested hdmi 2.1 until relatively recently, at which point they probably freaked out.

I don't know man. The HDMI port in my 2080 super stopped working so I searched for a 1.4 DP adapter to use one of the DP ports. It didn't give me HDR.

I tried with a different brand and the same.

The only thing I have yet to try is a more expensive DP adapter (I've been getting stuff around the $20 USD mark).
 
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j0hnnix

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Updated with What Hi-Fi Article, Forbes also has another article talking about the current issue. Sound Design seems to have been working on a resolution but as far as I seen it has not been provided, it is possible to replace the chipset , it does not seem to be a software fix for this issue.
 

Jigga117

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I disagree. First of course we have to start from the assumption the receiver is introducing no lag. Of course if it is then yes I will admit eARC makes sense.

Second assumption is that the receiver has enough ports for what you need.

Assuming you can get a reicever with the above 2 things (IE my Denon 3400 has no input lag and plenty of 40k 60hz ports) then I prefer to route through the receiver and let the receiver do the switching, rather than the TV. Why pay for a receiver with 8 inputs if you will only use one. Also I like to label inputs, have different profiles per input etc etc.
Yes 1 works but that’s the problem with the 8k receivers they only come with 1 HDMI 2.1. So if that’s all it is and someone is trying to use both next gen systems for the benefits like 4k@120hz then that won’t work either. We are basically waiting again for the receivers to offer more HDMI 2.1 ports for the reviver to be the hub people prefer it to be in some cases. This isn’t limited with receivers because majority of displays only offer 1-2 HDMI 2.1 ports so this is an issue for anyone that wants both next gen and next gen GPUs like myself.
 
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DGrayson

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Yes 1 works but that’s the problem with the 8k receivers they only come with 1 HDMI 2.1. So if that’s all it is and someone is trying to use both next gen systems for the benefits like 4k@120hz then that won’t work either. We are basically waiting again for the receivers to offer more HDMI 2.1 ports for the reviver to be the hub people prefer it to be in some cases. This isn’t limited with receivers because majority of displays only offer 1-2 HDMI 2.1 ports so this is an issue for anyone that wants both next gen and next gen GPUs like myself.


agreed, that is why i initially said best to wait so that they fix these 2.1 problems and there is a better chance of getting more than 1 true 2.1 port. As of now I think I would only need two 2.1 ports. Gaming console and gaming PC, but I plan on waiting to get a better receiver with more 2.1 ports hopefully next year.
 
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Jigga117

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Yes please follow Vincent on this subject vs Fomo guy. So sick of his misinformation.
 

Jigga117

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Vincent is just as bad he's just a paid LG shill

Omg with this quatum idiot. Isn’t even a real calibrator and this is the same guy that said you can’t get 4k@120hz on Lg because the port is 40Gbps. Do better bro.