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News Sony’s 2021 TV lineup runs Google TV and fully embraces HDMI 2.1

Kuranghi

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Having these options would at least lower lag on x1 extreme tvs for not needing to output at 1080p to get 444 with hdr, and eliminate double scaling. Can't comment on 8bit plus dithering as I haven’t seen it to compare, but options are good.

Seems like UK is getting the bulk of ips panels compared to US, not a good thing.

24 zones on 55 x90j bro. Twenty. Four. I could have understood 60, and z9f zone count for x95j. But damn are they not trying or what. I guess it’s easier to make a gimmicky image processor than to improve the panel.

Hoping for an x90k mini led 4k set with no x wide angle film, with hgig and over 1000 nits ; would be the ultimate small lcd for gaming.

They should also make an 8k mini led with backlight master drive. But who are we kidding, i’ll be surprised if we don’t see 16 zones on the x90k xD

Yeah thats rubbish, I might be thinking of the 65" then. Either way though, I think 48 zones is a good minimum for 55", thats what the XF90 has in 55". Even the 2017 XE90 has more than 24 zones.

The dithering you can see on Win10, when you have HDMI 2.0 and turn on HDR for a 4K@60hz output it will default to RGB with 8-bit + dithering instead of 422 with 10-bit. You can go into NVCPL and force 422 + 10-bit (or even 12-bit), I read around for a day or two and general internet consenus was that its hard to tell the difference between 8-bit + dithering and true 10-bit even on a true 10-bit panel, banding can even be better with 8+dithering for "reasons".

Not sure how that affects the colour reproduction for human eyes (vs. figures on paper), like if you don't see the fully potential glory of the added BT.2020 colour gamut with dithering, but banding is definitely not an issue from what I've read.
 
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Kuranghi

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While I'm a big Sony head I'm not sure any company will ever be able to beat LG OLED's.

Do you mean with regards to gaming?

Sony is generally viewed by professional reviewers as having the best motion, upscaling and gradient handling among the big brands so they have LG beat in that regard. They certainly have lagged behind in gaming features though, the HDMI 2.1 support is rubbish.
 

Delco Airsoft

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Do you mean with regards to gaming?

Sony is generally viewed by professional reviewers as having the best motion, upscaling and gradient handling among the big brands so they have LG beat in that regard. They certainly have lagged behind in gaming features though, the HDMI 2.1 support is rubbish.
No I mean as in TV's. While yes I would agree their LED TV's are the best. I don't think I'll ever go back.
 

StateofMajora

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Do you mean with regards to gaming?

Sony is generally viewed by professional reviewers as having the best motion, upscaling and gradient handling among the big brands so they have LG beat in that regard. They certainly have lagged behind in gaming features though, the HDMI 2.1 support is rubbish.
I have to say, Lg 2021 oled has definitely beat Sony in motion. Less artifacts than sony, and great bfi.

Gradients are still crap compared to Sony though. Upscaling, I actually prefer LG now compared to 2021 sony, but flip that around for prior year. LG may not be perfect in upscaling but they’re not mucking about with the image too much.

If my c1 didn’t have nasty uniformity I would have kept it, I was generally really impressed and the hgig hdr blew sony oled hdr out of the water, I was shocked honestly.
 
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StateofMajora

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But yeah in terms of gradation it was a huge step back on lg c1 compared to Sony tvs. Much, much more noise which would have been hard to get used to, but it’s a trade off I suppose.

I’m not sure what would be more likely - for LG to get gradation right or for Sony to stop being lazy and fixing what isn’t broken.
Well they’re all using LG panel’s, image processing and UX is the only thing setting them all apart.
Which can make a huge difference. But Sony may use samsung qd oled in 2023+.
 
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Blond

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But yeah in terms of gradation it was a huge step back on lg c1 compared to Sony tvs. Much, much more noise which would have been hard to get used to, but it’s a trade off I suppose.

I’m not sure what would be more likely - for LG to get gradation right or for Sony to stop being lazy and fixing what isn’t broken.

Which can make a huge difference. But Sony may use samsung qd oled in 2023+.
QD and OLED? My eyeballs are drooling at the possibility alone! I have a KS8000 in the bedroom and LG OLED in the living room, properly calibrated I (SOMETIMES) prefer the KS8000 cause of the image processing vs my C9.
 

StateofMajora

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QD and OLED? My eyeballs are drooling at the possibility alone! I have a KS8000 in the bedroom and LG OLED in the living room, properly calibrated I (SOMETIMES) prefer the KS8000 cause of the image processing vs my C9.
Yeah, Samsung display is producing qd oled panels for Samsung tvs in 2022, and of course Sony or anyone else can buy them if they want. But it will take other companies longer to get so just Samsung for next year.

It’s basically 4 layers of blue oled pixels which passes through a quantum dot color conversion layer ; way different and more advanced than current QD displays.

Lower peak brightness than lg oled (not a problem for sdr) but the perceived brightness in hdr is supposed to be higher due to the color volume.

No more white pixel like on lg oled, so no more white flashing in compressed dark scenes which lcd has an advantage in that way over current oled.

More than anything I just hope the screen uniformity is way better than lg because they are really shitting the bed atm.
 
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Kuranghi

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No I mean as in TV's. While yes I would agree their LED TV's are the best. I don't think I'll ever go back.

I meant gaming on an LG OLED.

Back to LED from OLED? Sony make OLEDs as well though, and you said their LED TVs are the best, but the processing is very similar in the OLED as in their LED TVs.
 

mitchman

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Do you mean with regards to gaming?

Sony is generally viewed by professional reviewers as having the best motion, upscaling and gradient handling among the big brands so they have LG beat in that regard. They certainly have lagged behind in gaming features though, the HDMI 2.1 support is rubbish.
Yeah, only LG and Samsung do their own HDMI 2.1 chipsets, the rest is forced to source it from mediatek and others, which typically doesn't offer 4 ports with full HDMI 2.1. Quite astonishing that my aging LG OLED B9 (must be almost 3 years old by now) has 4 HDMI 2.1 48Gbps ports supporting all features, but new TVs in 2021 from competitors still have issues.
 

Kuranghi

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Yeah, only LG and Samsung do their own HDMI 2.1 chipsets, the rest is forced to source it from mediatek and others, which typically doesn't offer 4 ports with full HDMI 2.1. Quite astonishing that my aging LG OLED B9 (must be almost 3 years old by now) has 4 HDMI 2.1 48Gbps ports supporting all features, but new TVs in 2021 from competitors still have issues.

Yeah indeed, I use my TV for many other things than gaming though and I also don't mind sacrificing 4K@120hz support (I don't play MP games so would rarely use it outside of maybe 3 games tbh), full RGB range HDR and VRR to keep the image quality overall higher when watching media and playing games. I tend to care about about the image quality than framerates above 60.

Games with constant slight drops below 60 are super annoying though, I do wish I had VRR for that. Like RE8 RT mode.

In fairness though VRR does still have issues on LG (and Samsung afaik) sets so while Sony has the issue of not having it at all, LG has a partially broken implementation that takes away one of the main benefits of OLED, perfect black levels and swaps it for its worse quality - near black handling. 4K120 seems to work very well though, no complaints there.

If you are buying the TV purely to play games on then I agree LG OLED seems to be the best choice right now. Especially if you are doing MP on console and PC gaming with a really high end rig.
 

mitchman

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LG has a partially broken implementation that takes away one of the main benefits of OLED, perfect black levels and swaps it for its worse quality - near black handling. 4K120 seems to work very well though, no complaints there.
I can honestly say I've never seen this (it might be there but so slight I can't see it) on either of my OLEDs, the B9 and CX.
 

Kuranghi

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I can honestly say I've never seen this (it might be there but so slight I can't see it) on either of my OLEDs, the B9 and CX.

Me neither, in person at least. I've never owned an LG OLED just seen them at my job, where its not a good place to evaluate this problem, I learned about it from reviewers.

If you don't notice a problem then definitely don't go looking for it or for the videos talking about it. Keep enjoying your awesome TV as you were I say.

Its more for nerds like me who pay for professional calibration and this issue undoes some of that work and makes it hard/impossible to calibrate it properly, not an issue for 90% of users though I'd say. I just still talk about it because I think its better to talk about the up and downsides of a brand/product, otherwise people come back to me and say "why didnt you tell me about this".
 

StateofMajora

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No point for me of VRR if you can't use bfi and if it messes with black level. Even more of a shame on C1 since the bfi was even better than the motion on Sony. I guess if the fps is crazy unstable like 80-120 or 40 to 60 it might make sense but to sacrifice bfi for a few dips here or there is counter productive.
 

thebigmanjosh

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Just upgraded a few weeks ago from a 2018 TCL 6-series to the A90J. I found an open box deal at Best Buy (literally the box had been opened, TV never take out or used) for $1900 and pulled the trigger over the A80J and G1/C1 due to my 70:30 movies:games usage and only having a PS5 and Switch hooked up atm.

Since I don’t have any other OLEDs to compare to I can’t say either way how it stacks up, but here are my impressions:

  • This is hands down the best picture I’ve ever seen in any format. OLED vs full array LED benefits aside, I feel like the A90J has significantly brighter highlights even though the TCL was rated about 200-300 nits higher for 25% and smaller windows.
  • One of the things I hated about the TCL is it had no options to enable/disable/adjust tone mapping, so you were left relying on their HDR/DV presets to do the job for you. I’m surprised Sony hasn’t adopted HGIG as a preset but their options get the job done. On PS5, I either keep tone mapping off or on gradient preferred depending how the HDR is graded.
  • Im finally conceding that HDR (outside of DV) is a mess. I feel like I still need to adjust settings depending on how the content is mastered and have two custom pro presets depending if I’m watching 1000 or 4000-nit content.
  • Google TV is a big upgrade from Roku but it still lags on startup sometimes on an Ethernet gigabit connection through USB dongle. I’m tempted to get an Apple TV 4K and put the TV into basic mode but I do really like the integration.
  • I’ve played a few game’s at 120fps and haven’t felt like I needed VRR, but I also don’t know any better so YMMV.
  • Wishing it had more than two full bandwidth HDMI in since only HDMI 3 (PS5) and HDMI 4 (earc) are 48Gbps and “Dolby Vision Enhanced”. I may upgrade my soundbar to the new Sony one coming out next month to take advantage of the TV as center channel and gain two 48Gbps HDMI ports, but we’ll see.
  • Anyone looking for settings suggestions should check this AVS Forums thread out. I wouldn’t normally recommend WB and color calibration tv to tv, but the Master series are more consistently calibrated and it improved accuracy significantly on my set (and saved me some time doing it myself).
 
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Kuranghi

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Just upgraded a few weeks ago from a 2018 TCL 6-series to the A90J. I found an open box deal at Best Buy (literally the box had been opened, TV never take out or used) for $1900 and pulled the trigger over the A80J and G1/C1 due to my 70:30 movies:games usage and only having a PS5 and Switch hooked up atm.

Since I don’t have any other OLEDs to compare to I can’t say either way how it stacks up, but here are my impressions:

  • This is hands down the best picture I’ve ever seen in any format. OLED vs full array LED benefits aside, I feel like the A90J has significantly brighter highlights even though the TCL was rated about 200-300 nits higher for 25% and smaller windows.
  • One of the things I hated about the TCL is it had no options to enable/disable/adjust tone mapping, so you were left relying on their HDR/DV presets to do the job for you. I’m surprised Sony hasn’t adopted HGIG as a preset but their options get the job done. On PS5, I either keep tone mapping off or on gradient preferred depending how the HDR is graded.
  • Im finally conceding that HDR (outside of DV) is a mess. I feel like I still need to adjust settings depending on how the content is mastered and have two custom pro presets depending if I’m watching 1000 or 4000-nit content.
  • Google TV is a big upgrade from Roku but it still lags on startup sometimes on an Ethernet gigabit connection through USB dongle. I’m tempted to get an Apple TV 4K and put the TV into basic mode but I do really like the integration.
  • I’ve played a few game’s at 120fps and haven’t felt like I needed VRR, but I also don’t know any better so YMMV.
  • Wishing it had more than two full bandwidth HDMI in since only HDMI 3 (PS5) and HDMI 4 (earc) are 48Gbps and “Dolby Vision Enhanced”. I may upgrade my soundbar to the new Sony one coming out next month to take advantage of the TV as center channel and gain two 48Gbps HDMI ports, but we’ll see.
  • Anyone looking for settings suggestions should check this AVS Forums thread out. I wouldn’t normally recommend WB and color calibration tv to tv, but the Master series are more consistently calibrated and it improved accuracy significantly on my set (and saved me some time doing it myself).

Even the brightest LCD with thousands of dimming zones can't make really tiny highlights that bright due to fear of blooming/altering the darker content around it. So it will almost always look better on an OLED. Like the highlights in this demo for example:



It looks amazing on my ZD9 but an OLED still looks way better again on top of that. I never really got to see that glorious cowboy sign because they always agreed to buy the TV before we got to that point lol.

What games specifically were you having trouble getting to look right in HDR?
 
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Matt_Fox

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Anyone have any guesses on when (affordable) OLED / QLEDs are going to exceed 85"?

I know LG has a nice 88" model for 2021 but it's £30k, and beyond what I'd ever pay for a set.

Do you think we might see more 88" or 90" sets in the not-too-distant-future?

 

StateofMajora

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Anyone have any guesses on when (affordable) OLED / QLEDs are going to exceed 85"?

I know LG has a nice 88" model for 2021 but it's £30k, and beyond what I'd ever pay for a set.

Do you think we might see more 88" or 90" sets in the not-too-distant-future?

I guess a couple or a few years. But oh boy the uniformity is going to be a problem. I’d say the current 83 inch size is as big as a 4k set needs to be but I like smaller sets, so.

Alternatively we might see nothing bigger than 85” on 4k oled and larger sizes will be reserved for 8k. I do wonder how much longer 4k high end models will be pushed in general.
 
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Kuranghi

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Anyone have any guesses on when (affordable) OLED / QLEDs are going to exceed 85"?

I know LG has a nice 88" model for 2021 but it's £30k, and beyond what I'd ever pay for a set.

Do you think we might see more 88" or 90" sets in the not-too-distant-future?


There are 83" models but its still stupid money compared to the 55, 65 and even 77":



Fuck knows why the top model Sony OLED is £500 cheaper than the LG regular OLED model in that size. Just made up prices.
 

PerfectDark

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While I'm a big Sony head I'm not sure any company will ever be able to beat LG OLED's.
Sony and Vizio lie, and scam.

Bought the Vizio oled on release VRR and 120hz has never worked. TV has so many software problems that everyday its a pain in the ass. Sony Lies about VRR and 120hz as well. They scam consumers with BS lies as its never coming.

Never pay full price for future promises. If your paying full price for a set of features make sure they work and your getting what you pay for.

I bought a vizio oled, sony, and had to buy a LG C1 just to play games I thought I would be able to on my other 2 TV's.
 

Delco Airsoft

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Sony and Vizio lie, and scam.

Bought the Vizio oled on release VRR and 120hz has never worked. TV has so many software problems that everyday its a pain in the ass. Sony Lies about VRR and 120hz as well. They scam consumers with BS lies as its never coming.

Never pay full price for future promises. If your paying full price for a set of features make sure they work and your getting what you pay for.

I bought a vizio oled, sony, and had to buy a LG C1 just to play games I thought I would be able to on my other 2 TV's.
Jesus I feel bad. Yea Vizio is shit and I've always stayed away from them. We have had a Sony Bravia in my house for about 10 years or so and it's still going strong. But one of the 2015 model Bravia I had just completely dies in like 2 years so I went out and bought an LG OLED E8 and never looked back. That's what I'm still using for my PS5 and I'm sure I'll keep it for a while because I don't really need 120hz at the moment.