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Gotham Knights apparently is locked 4k/30fps on consoles
- Thread starter remember_spinal
- Start date
- Rumor Analysis
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
This game has designed by committee written all over it. Makes sense they'd cheap out on optimization.
BigbyTheSheriff
Member
The game is cheaper ($10-$20) but the rig you need for that is at least 3 times more expensive than a console
Right now maybe, but many people bought their PCs years ago.
Ryzen 3600, RTX 2060 Super and other components cost me around 800 euros. Not even 2x as expensive as XSX/PS5
And that's better than minimum requirements for that game.
DaGwaphics
Member
IKR. even if the XSS was creating an issue for them, that would not stop them from creating a 60fps mode exclusive to XSX/PS5, as many titles have done already. Sometimes the 60fps comes a bit later for XSS and sometimes it doesn't. Just sounds like a dev making excuses for the game not performing at that level in general.
hemo memo
Gold Member
I would be genuinely surprised if the game becomes a commercial or a critical success.
Stuart360
Member
He was making an excuse, just defending his fellow devs (and he's not even a dev of the game).
We have to remember that for a large part of the development of this game, it wads a cross gen game designed to work on PS4 and XB1. Sure they will of improved stuff now since they dropped last gen, but its still at its core a cross gen game.
The devs designd the game to be 30fps, for whatever reason, and to blame the XSS for that is pretty stupid really under the circumstances of the development of this game.
I mean if XSS is holding back the game, and its already 30fps on XSX/PS5,. does that mean its going to be like 20fps on XSS?, because it would probably have to be for there to be any truth in what that dev said.
DaGwaphics
Member
I know. Plus, if XSS was holding back the generation by limiting aspects of the core game play, that should really result in the XSX/PS5 performing better in comparison to it. Since more of the power of the larger systems could go into resolution and framerate. If games that are "held back" by the XSS are only at 30fps on XSX/PS5, I guess it's a good thing the XSS exists. Without it they could push higher and go for 20fps on XSX/PS5. LOL
Stuart360
Member
Yeah 100%. If XSS was holding back games then we would be getting constant cross gen style situations where the XSS version is 30fps, and the PS5/XSX versions are 60-120fps, native 4k, etc. We arent though.
Most of us Knew we would start getting 30fps games the longer the gen went on, its common sense. The XSS seems a conveniant excuse for devs though now, to take blame away from themselves,
DaGwaphics
Member
Especially in cases where the final look doesn't lineup with the 30fps result. If Plague Tale Requiem is 30fps (confirmed?), it's with good reason because the game looks fantastic graphically from the trailers.
twilo99
Member
The one mode should be unlocked frames..
vaibhavpisal
Member
I can believe Series S would be a pain for Dev's. He is just ranting in a wrong way. Maybe he is struggling with it to make it perform at par in his own game.
As a proud owner of Series S, i find it quiet amusing for some reason.
It's a salt generation machine, wheather you play on PS or Xbox, wheather you are player or developer.
I imagine entire game developer industry would be terrified of the cute little box.
DaGwaphics
Member
I don't begrudge them for saying it requires some extra attention to get things running well. It's just weird for them to say it is limiting the XSX/PS5 when in the same situation the bigger boxes are getting hosed themselves in one respect or another.
So far the results have been great on mine. I still haven't upgraded to XSX yet, trying to hold out for a limited edition console design. Maybe they aren't going to do those often this gen though, only the Halo one so far.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
Cyberpunk 2077 has 60fps mode on Series S so...
vaibhavpisal
Member
I don't begrudge them for saying it requires some extra attention to get things running well. It's just weird for them to say it is limiting the XSX/PS5 when in the same situation the bigger boxes are getting hosed themselves in one respect or another.
So far the results have been great on mine. I still haven't upgraded to XSX yet, trying to hold out for a limited edition console design. Maybe they aren't going to do those often this gen though, only the Halo one so far.
Personally I am waiting for Series S version of PS5.
Gonna play on that only.
And a Series S sized/powered Switch 2 as well.
It's also cross gen title.
LordCBH
Member
So was this until a couple months ago. Still looks like a last Gen title too.
DaGwaphics
Member
Would be a tough road to hoe to release a lower powered box after the fact. Everything released so far would require a patch to even run.
When adding systems after release it would always be much easier to go more powerful, at worst games can just run as they do on the base model with no improvement.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
It looks more technically proficient on consoles compared to Gotham Knights, despite being cross-gen.
Anyway, this is purely a game dev decision/issue. Not a hardware limitation. IMHO.
Trazyn the Infinite
Member
No one is “afraid” of the Series S. They are either laughing at it or frustrated for having to develop for it. The projection of Series S owners truly is something to behold.
Can you point me to where all these “console morons” have demanded 4k?
ChorizoPicozo
Member
I dunno....this game has FLOP written all over it. And I don't mean T-Flops.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Most on here don’t even own it, or have it as a main. They’re on their XSX. It’s just brand defense.
If the brands were flipped with this product setup, the “opinions” would be flipped right along with it.
TheGecko
Banned
Digital Foundry and their followers.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
As opposed to all those non Series S owners regaling their "opinions" right now ? what's the opposite of brand defense ?
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
You think you have a gotcha, but you don’t.As opposed to all those non Series S owners regaling their "opinions" right now ? what's the opposite of brand defense ?
And you know I’m right. It’s okay to accept that.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
The problem is the graphics don't back up that claim.
So is this game, but it runs at 30fps
.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
So is this game, but it runs at 30fps
The forced 4K + RT is the main reason. There's no realistic reason for them not to have at least an optional toggle with lowered settings for people who want it.
If the Series S was really a crutch, they could have kept a 60 FPS performance mode for SX|PS5 like a few other games have already done in the recent history.
I hate to use the term "lazy dev" but let's just say I won't be surprised if we get an updated 60 FPS mode in a couple of weeks/months as the fan outcry increases.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Klosshufvud
Member
Yeah this is basically the self-defeating argument when people blame 30 fps on Series S. If anything, Series S existing ought to enable even more 60 fps SX/PS5 games than if it didn't exist. The arguments presented make absolutely no sense. He was just desperately trying to find a scapegoat to save his developer buddies. I don't think this is the last time it will happen.
Dust-by-Monday
Member
The series S was a huge mistake by Microsoft basically ensuring we won’t see any good looking multi platform games this generation. At least Sony stuff will look good.
DaGwaphics
Member
Absolutely. You'd have to figure that XSX would have a good shot at running the XSS version at twice the fps, so long as there is adequate CPU overhead. Obviously, If a game is fully utilizing the XSS CPU at 30fps, there wouldn't be enough uplift for a high-frame mode on XSX, which is a scenario that will probably start to play out more often once the last-gen systems are left behind.
anthony2690
Banned
Plague Tale Requiem is 60fps, with drops to 40/50fps prior to the patch, apparently it's smoother now, but it sounds like it will be best experienced with VRR.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Why cant it be both? Clearly the fact that they need a 7 tflops GPU on PC to run it at 60 fps with low settings means the game is unoptimized.
The fact that xss is 3 tflops below in raw numbers and 2 tflops below after the RDNA IPC gains simply illustrates that the console is below THEIR minimum requirements.
There arent that many fully open world coop games. We dont know what they are doing behind the hood. We know that GG cancelled coop in HZD because they saw that the game simply looked like shit because coop took so many GPU and CPU resources so they straight up cancelled that mode. It's possible that their engine isnt as optimized as say Ubisoft's division engine or their far cry engine but none of this changes the fact that series s is BELOW the minimum requirements on PC for 60 fps.
They could be inept, incompetent, and their shitty code could be the reason why a 30 fps XSS mode might cause issues when played against an xsx instance running at 60 fps.
DaGwaphics
Member
Okay. I thought someone has said it was 30fps.
anthony2690
Banned
I'm only going off the commenter from the purple site, that was threadmarked, so I assume it was verified to some degree or I hope so atleast.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
In that case the devs specifically said they want folks to wait for the day 1 patch, so probably a lot of optimization there.
twilo99
Member
Forza Horizon looks just fine on the series S unfortunately.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
We have seen this happen already. Many 60 fps games on the XSX and PS5 didnt had a 30 fps mode on XSS. Some eventually got a 60 fps patch but they had to reduce resolution to 720p like in AC Valhalla and Cyberpunk. But this game is different. It's built around coop. In a full open world. Comparisons with those single player games simply arent accurate.
What if its not the CPU thats the bottleneck? One thing that keeps coming up in regards to the Series S is the memory bottleneck. The bandwidth is too low and there is only 7.5 GB of it available. Guess what? This game on PC requires 8GB RAM on TOP of whatever VRAM is in the minimum spec 590 and 1660Ti. (Im guessing at least 4GB)
Technically the XSS has a CPU identical to the XSX and PS5. The GPU has the same architecture. Just fewer tflops. 1/3 of XSX and almost 2/5 of the PS5. Almost half. And yet we have consistently seen native 4k games running at 1080p with WORSE settings on the XSS. Why? Why is the performance not scaling down linearly despite the same arch GPU, and identical CPU? Clearly there is something else holding it back and it COULD be the RAM or lack thereof.
I mean even MS recently admitted this when they increased the ram allocation for games on the series s by hundreds of megabytes. Clearly they were being bugged about it by devs. Or maybe they saw these benchmarks of Gotham Knights.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
They want to charge for 60 fps patches. A lot of the unlocked framerate games from the early PS4 era like KZSF, Infamous and The Last Guardian work without a patch on the PS5. Locked 60 fps. Even GOW which had a retail version that came with an unlocked framerate worked flawlessly.
Thats why I roll my eyes whenever people excuse devs for not patching in 60 fps modes right away. There is zero work required other than updating some config file and maybe updating the menu if they want to allow 30 fps modes in addition to the 60 fps modes. Richard from DF was told there was an API that tells devs if the game is running on a PS5 so the change is literally a line code change to enable 60 fps.
When mid gen refreshes come out, they will do the same song and dance with games like HFW which have their native 4k mode locked at 30 fps for some bizarre reason.
Trazyn the Infinite
Member
As opposed to all those non Series S owners regaling their "opinions" right now ? what's the opposite of brand defense ?
You can own a Series X and still speak on the Series S.
Also I find it hilarious that you, a very well known warrior for Xbox, is tryin to claim that it isn’t warriors trying to defend this idiotic box.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
This is what im saying, they are just using the XSS excuse for there shitty code. XSS can run 540p24fps, that doesn't mean the other 2 can't run it 60fps at whatever resolution. And how is it gonna work on pc then? Im expecting a shitty port at this point tbh.
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Trazyn the Infinite
Member
I am well aware. You can already see it with a quick search. So many of them whined/bitched about Bethesda and Blizzard/Acti but are now defending everything they do because they are owned by Microsoft. It would be hilarious if it wasn’t so pathetic.
DaGwaphics
Member
It was never going to be perfectly linear, I expected there to be some nips and tucks where the XSS is involved. But, outside of playing the game side by side with an XSX for the duration, the final results have been excellent so far. There will always be outliers in both directions.
The remarks we were talking about were this particular dev accusing the XSS of being responsible for the XSX/PS5 running at 30fps, and that realistically isn't possible. Regardless of what bottleneck they hit in XSS that caused them to limit or "hold-back" the game design, the bigger systems would be more capable in all areas. If the XSS was holding back things it would make things easier, not harder for the big boys. The reality is that the XSX/PS5 look to be somewhat maxed out in the given games that have been released on them, diminishing the idea that they have been hamstrung by a weaker box (they are often below 4k or have some fps blips etc.). It's flawed logic to look at a game running at 1440p on XSX/PS5 and think that those consoles could have done more if the XSS wasn't in the picture, at what resolution, 1080p.
Not to say that new tricks won't come along and lead to games getting increasingly better looking as time goes on.
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ShaquilleOatmeal
Member
Ooooof, pre-order canceled.
This is legitimately the first time I've ever gone the refund route for a pre-order on the PlayStation store.
Let's see how painless this is. Fingers crossed.
This is legitimately the first time I've ever gone the refund route for a pre-order on the PlayStation store.
Let's see how painless this is. Fingers crossed.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Halo Infinite, as an example, has competitive matches between 30 FPS One S, 60/120+ FPS PC/Series owners. It's not a question of whether it's tangibly doable or not.
It's a very deliberate choice or limitation on the game developers part.
But I'm a Series X fanboy going by your words, what incentive do I have to 'defend' Series S other than pointing out the absurdity of the posts blaming Series S for everything wrong with the gaming industry right now.
It's hilarious because, like has been brought up many-a-times already, there have been cases where PS5/SX versions of games have had a 60 FPS mode and Series S does not. That could have been the way to go here *IF* the Series S is the limiting factor here in the first place.
Also, you are stanning for an character artist from a studio that has nothing to do with *THIS* game, he cannot comment with either first or second hand knowledge about what the limitations or reasoning is behind why Gotham Knight is 30 FPS on the modern consoles.
It's nothing short of absurd the lengths the discussion has devolved into bashing one device for this 'issue' of 30 FPS.
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Trazyn the Infinite
Member
As DeepEnigma said, its an Xbox Product. You, a warrior, go out of your way to defend anything and everything associated with Xbox while hypocritically whining/moaning about any other competitor even when they do the *same thing* that MS does.
Also not “stanning” for anyone. But keep up the good work with the strawman arguments and projections.
twilo99
Member
Yeah it makes no sense but I guess its a money thing like you say.
In this case with the series S with unlocked frames they can just say "yeah, you get what you pay for" and move on.. the PS5 and XSX will simply hit higher frame rates, as the should.