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EDMIX
Member
Who is them though? The writers, main director etc are all likely actually working on the tech for the sequel anyway.
I don't think this is taking away from a sequel as the people likely working on this where not even going to have much to do on Ghost 2.
Think about it, how can they work on a game with no engine? For all we know, that is what they are doing for Ghost 2, thus the part of this team working on this wasn't going to be doing what you think they'd be done on the sequel right now, as in 2021
Hezekiah
Banned
Yeah that's DLC and graphically very impressive. However it's only three hours and still $20, so I hope this doesn't come out at $50.
yurinka
Member
I meant the studio as a whole, I prefer them to work on GoT (doesn't matter if in a big ass GoT2, in a small spinoff-like sequel or in both) than in Infamous.
Sure, without having the new engine, many people can work. Like writers deciding the story and setting, designers and concept artists working on new weapons, costumes, enemies, localitions or mechanics, historical research and so on. But before implementing them in-game with artists and programmers they'll need to wait until the engine team tells them the size limits (textures, polygons, etc) that the new engine will be able to handle in PS5 and (if crossgen, I'd bet GoT2 won't be crossgen) in PS4, in addition to tell them how populated will be able to be each area and the size of that area (enemies, NPC, vegetation, animals, etc). Plus also info of if they do something like UE5 where they allow to include any giant asset and don't need anymore stuff like LOD, normal mapping, etc. Once they have this info, they are able to make the level design and the in-game implementation of all the assets.
If the next version of the engine is only a simple iteration of the current one adding some extra polygons and texture budget plus extra stuff like raytracing then they will be able to start working on GoT2 normally with the current engine and maybe won't have to wait and start to make the game with the older version of the engine and new stuff will be added slowly. If instead they make that UE5-like big change with several paradigm changes then they'll have to wait.
In the later case, it's a good idea to make this small game before the big ass sequel to keep them working on something until the other guys have the engine properly ready for next gen.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
That gif is sooo good.
Techno_Inked
Member
This is absolutely amazing if true. Ghost of Tsushima is one of my all time favorites.
I don't get why people are protesting against these smaller additions. It's less risk for Sucker Punch, perfect for adding depth and story nuggets for the original fans, great for people who have less time playing huge quality games, and there's now an opportunity for developers to experiment a bit more to see what works and use that experience for the grand full blown sequel. There's literally zero downsides for anyone.
I don't get why people are protesting against these smaller additions. It's less risk for Sucker Punch, perfect for adding depth and story nuggets for the original fans, great for people who have less time playing huge quality games, and there's now an opportunity for developers to experiment a bit more to see what works and use that experience for the grand full blown sequel. There's literally zero downsides for anyone.
FukuDaruma
Member
That bitch still needs to do proper atonement for all the poor peasants she treated worse than cattle.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Sequels and remakes baby!
Hugare
Member
I dont understand why people are so much against spin offs
1 - They are made mostly by Team-B while the main team is developing the sequel
2 - Helps to give franchises a boost in sales/market recognition
3 - Some of them are really, really great (Left Behind, Lost Legacy, Miles Morales)
They are still developing sequels. Chill.
1 - They are made mostly by Team-B while the main team is developing the sequel
2 - Helps to give franchises a boost in sales/market recognition
3 - Some of them are really, really great (Left Behind, Lost Legacy, Miles Morales)
They are still developing sequels. Chill.
Eliciel
Member
2hour campaign confirmedIt’s rather small
SafeOrAlone
Banned
I must have enjoyed this game. I know I did. I played it all the way to the end.
But I can't remember a single thing about it. Playing more doesn't excite me.
But I can't remember a single thing about it. Playing more doesn't excite me.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
They end up taking away resources from the main game. We saw this with Lost legacy where the entire studio had to get involved to get the game out the door. That meant full production on TLOU2 didnt start until August 2017. We now know that the game was delayed THREE times. It was a holiday 2019 title that shipped in summer 2020. It wouldve probably come out a full year earlier if they never did Lost Legacy.
You need to look at Ubisoft's AC studios to see just how many teams it takes to put out games every year or every other year. Sony teams are much smaller. They dont have satellite studios. They do outsource stuff but its no where close to the 1000 man teams Ubisoft has working on their open world games. There is a reason why GoT took 6 years to make. Why Days Gone took 7 years. Why GoW took 5 years. And why Horizon 2 has taken 4+ years and will likely take 5 years despite being a last gen sequel. Not even something they started from scratch. Even GoW2 is a last gen sequel with 4 years of dev time. What's going to happen when these studios finally start to work on adding next gen tech? Are we looking at 5-6 years? If so, shouldnt they stop wasting time working on DLC expansions and get to work on next gen game right away?
Hugare
Member
Theres no fucking way that TLOU 2 entered full production on August 2017.
Game is not only lengthy but too freaking big in terms of different assets and etc. And polished.
It was delayed, but the reason for those delays we can only guess.
To your questions: some of the best games out there already demand 5+ years to make. TLOU 2 included, considering it have been "in the making" since the first game shipped.
And no, they shouldnt stop making DLCs. They should expand and divide between teams if needed.
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James Sawyer Ford
Member
the problem with your thesis is that if they didn’t have a safe expansion project, then a huge portion of the studio has very little to productively work on
not all projects have a perfectly prototyped, ambitious sequel that’s ready for production to move on to
these expansions serve a purpose to keep the studio working efficiently, lessening the time between releases, and allowing the bigger sequels to mature in their pre-production phase
SLB1904
Banned
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
The very first Mythic Quest was dope as hell too with the lightning and wind.
That right there sucked me in and taught me how to be patient with the combat system.
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SLB1904
Banned
looking at horizon improvements just makes me so excited for ghosts 2.
Nezzeroth
Member
DLCs are a good way to form new teams using less-experienced staff. If you ever want those studios to truly work on multiple projects simultaneously, this is the best way to do it.
The alternative is Mass Effect Andromeda.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
nowhat
Member
After playing through Valhalla (not 100%, but did clear all of the story - the grind wasn't fun at all towards the end and the payoff, or lack thereof, was insulting) I think I'm done with AC for a long while.
If this is something like First Light I'm all for it. A brief self-contained story (maybe with a different protagonist) sounds like fun.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
MrS
Banned
I think it's a good game, certainly doesn't come close to the greatness of TLOU 2 though. For me.
DavidGzz
Member
I agree is some aspects except where being a game ass game is concerned. Production values, animations, voice acting, are all better but I just had more overall fun with Ghost. They are hard to compare. One is an experience while another is more of a game. My top two games of last year though, can't go wrong with whichever order you put them in.
sendit
Member
Considering the title is plural. This is most likely a multiplayer only game.
CamHostage
Member
There's also that idea, "If you need to have something get done, ask a busy person to do it..."
You want your manpower to be busy, and big projects often have difficulty keeping everybody busy even though the project feels too big to not have everybody pushing on it 100%. A studio that commits to a massive project can find itself underwater with difficulty finding their way around for a long time, building and scraping and rethinking and testing and getting frustrated and trying the same thing a second or third or fifth time because it should have worked the first time, and most of all waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting for somebody-anybody to make a decision so you can really go head-down to work... Ultimately, at the scale that games are being produced these days, it does legitimately take years for a brand new IP with innovative technology to solidify (and even when the project ships, the post-morts can be always fascinating because they're always looking forward to correcting all their ingrained mistakes in the sequel.) But a studio that can find a healthy outlet in the middle, even if they're not a huge studio with multiple projects running at a time, that can help them refocus on the main project or even work out problems/ideas in a small scale that might help bring the big project into focus.
Look at Insomniac Games' production output this gen alone (and really, its whole lifespan.) Insonmiac put out two Spider-Man products with the PS5 launch (one a remaster, the other a brand new mid-size game, both pushing their engine/technology and letting them work experiments out on the next-gen hardware while still relying on the reliable cross-gen engine to promise they'd have an end-result to ship on time,) then they put out Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart and pushed that engine even further while also pioneering new gameplay uses of advanced technology, THEN they've supposedly got another Spider-Man game in the works that might go all-in on the PS5 AND they are hiring for multiplayer (maybe for Spidey, maybe something else?) AND there's talk that they're trying to bring their Sunset Overdrive property to PlayStation AND they'd be one of the best studios to talk to for the eventual PSVR2 since they made some of the best games on PC VR for Oculus when they were independent... All of that work has been very good for Insonmiac games, and even though they spent some resources putting together PS4/cross-gen projects instead of going full-speed at PS5, all that work was purposeful and propellant as they made each leap on the system. And they even say, so far, they've just scratched the surface...
Sleep when you're dead.
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kyliethicc
Member
Leaker says its singleplayer.
Most likely gonna have a second Ghost character. Either Yuna or Tomoe seem like obvious options, assuming it takes place after the end of GoT. Jin and another character, likely female, would become "The Ghosts."
Sucker Punch followed up Infamous Second Son with Infamous First Light. Standalone, smaller game. Switching to a female playable character who was also in Second Son as an NPC.
Lost Legacy, Miles Morales, First Light - all shifted to a different playable character. I'd assume they'd wanna do the same with this game.
But, just like Uncharted Lost Legacy did, I'm sure this game will include the same Legends multiplayer mode as the full Ghost of Tsushima game has. So that increases the value.
Varteras
Gold Member
I'm not sure that's accurate that it would have taken that long. Naughty Dog itself is a studio of about 450 people last I heard. The Last of Us Part 2 ended up having a shitload of outsourcing done. I'm not sure what the split was between entities that worked directly for Sony and those who were third party nor how much work was done by them versus Naughty Dog themselves, but well over 2,000 people had a hand in making the game. It's important to remember that Sony has a number of support studios and various teams whose job it is to take a significant portion of the workload off of their main development teams. Some of them are highly specialized to make particular tasks much easier and faster. We've also heard before that some of Sony's main development studios will assist each other in the event of downtime.
I do recall it being said that Naughty Dog was scrambling to redo Uncharted 4 after the fallout with Amy Hennig. That Straley and Druckmann basically wanted to rewrite a huge portion of the game and a quote keeps popping in my head where they said the entire studio was "all hands on deck" to get the game out as soon as possible with all things considered. Uncharted 4 released almost halfway through 2016 and it was at PSX later that year where they not only revealed Lost Legacy, which was an expansion for Uncharted 4 that became its own game, but Shawn Layden teased us with a game he said was "super early in development". That game was revealed by the end to be TLoU 2. So based on those words from Layden, the fact that Naughty Dog was very much busy with two Uncharted projects, and what we know of how many people got involved with TLoU 2 before it was done... not entering full production until 2017 really isn't far fetched at all.
CamHostage
Member
But they already have a multiplayer GoT. Unless Ikishima is an expansion for Ghost Of Tsushima: Legends (or is some kind of PvP arena/fighting game?), the plural is probably either an error (even the leaker says he might have it wrong) or the standalone Ikishima is a multi-character game but still a single-player (or maybe co-op) campaign.
KyoZz
Tag, you're it.
kyliethicc
Member
Ghosts could just mean a second character becomes Jin's partner.
Jin is the Ghost. Yuna or Tomoe could become another Ghost. They could together be the Ghosts.
These spin-off games usually feature a different playable character. Uncharted Lost Legacy, Spidey Miles Morales, Infamous First Light. Even The Last of Us Left Behind was Ellie as main playable instead of Joel. Assuming it takes place after the first game ends, I wouldn't be surprised if for this game Yuna is the main playable character. She and Jin could become The Ghosts of Ikishima.
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nowhat
Member
I just had an idea - a browser plugin that replaces every instance of "Mass Effect Andromeda" with "MAAARTHAAA!!!"
TLZ
Banned
bender
What time is it?
I got bored after unlocking the second section of the map. The duels were definitely the best part of the game up until that point.
fersnake
Member
this is just like botw2, they already have the assets, gameplay etc that's why the dev time is much shorter and in the same time another team can make the real sequel.
EDMIX
Member
Same.
I enjoyed the game, but its no where in the same ball park as what ND did with The Last Of Us 2. Going from the Last Of Us 2 to Ghost felt like a massive downgrade lol Because of all the amazing AI and limbs being taken off and having to hide from dogs looking for you etc, when playing Ghost and none of that shit exist, you start to see just how talented ND actually are.
Ghost 2 has dogs smelling for you, complex AI, more limbs actually coming off etc, I'll be more hype.
Both series will be day 1s for me regardless, but The Last Of Us 2 was just on a different level in regards to complexity and quality. Sony had 2 massive winners last year to remind people who the fuck they are when PS5 was rolling out lol
fersnake
Agreed. I was just going to say, the time they will take to actually make a new engine means the other half of the team isn't even doing shit anyway. Also with a new IP, it makes sense to take that long as they are literally building entire ideas, with a sequel it should be shorter as they can build off of what they did with the first game. I'm ok with this expansion as I don't see just how it would delay a sequel as the whole team won't do it and they'd have next to nothing to do with a sequel RIGHT NOW.
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Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
FukuDaruma
Member
Yeah, this shit sure was one hell of a peak gaming moment. If they would have managed to keep this level of emotional connection with the player through the entire game it would have been totally bonkers.
sendit
Member
Same.
I enjoyed the game, but its no where in the same ball park as what ND did with The Last Of Us 2. Going from the Last Of Us 2 to Ghost felt like a massive downgrade lol Because of all the amazing AI and limbs being taken off and having to hide from dogs looking for you etc, when playing Ghost and none of that shit exist, you start to see just how talented ND actually are.
Ghost 2 has dogs smelling for you, complex AI, more limbs actually coming off etc, I'll be more hype.
Both series will be day 1s for me regardless, but The Last Of Us 2 was just on a different level in regards to complexity and quality. Sony had 2 massive winners last year to remind people who the fuck they are when PS5 was rolling out lol
I agree to an extent. I want to see Naughty Dog do an open world game with the same attention to detail as The Last of Us 2.
YeulEmeralda
Member
Jaxcellent
Member
Cool, ill pick this up for 40!
EDMIX
Member
Damn that would be crazy! I feel next gen it could be done.
We need more games having multiple limbs removed with guns. That is what happens when you get shot and I never understood why so few titles really focused on that.
iorek21
Member
Please be true. My favorite game last year and one of my favorites of last generation.
The memories. The effect still works.
It still impresses me that Sucker Punch managed to do an Assassin's Creed-style title card intro better than any real AC ever since Unity.
Edit: Odyssey's was pretty good, but GoT is better.
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
I am surprised (and super disappointed) that they didn't have a custom duel mode or an arena mode with endless waves.
It is a very legendary main story, I really hope they work more on the side missions though. More of the duels as well! They were epic!
Sometimes, Sony games build all the foundation and just totally neglect to put the final touch that could make it another mode with endless replayability. Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart already has an arena, but there is no mode for endless waves that put you on an online leaderboard. Returnal was also perfect for an arena mode. So was Ghost of Tsushima. The custom duel mode in the main menu could have also been a masterstroke, where you could choose your enemy and customize the AI difficulty, weather, biome, etc.
mejin
Member
It's interesting you got ND as an example cause it is one of the most prolific studios from Sony and puts your perspective out of touch of the reality. From TLoU (2013) to U4 (2016) and finally, TLoU 2 (2020). 3 big AAA well reknowed goty games in a span of time of only 7 years. The fact they launched Left Behind, TLoU Remastered and Lost Legacy in the same period is just a big fuckn bonus.
Nowadays is clear Sony studios are growing bigger and Sony WWS is more organized than ever.
Of course, some studios faced some difficulties over time. But what's important is that they found a way in the end.
GG = Shadowfall (2013), Horizon (2017), Horizon 2 (2021/2022). They helped a lot Kojima to stabilish his studio in the mean time.
Bend = Had a hard time to jump from portables to consoles. Had several projects no approved by Sony till they found their path with Days Gone. Launched pc version this year and are already developing a new ip.
Sucker Punch = Second Son and First Light (2014) and Ghost of Tsushima (2020). Anyone who played their new ip know how much study and effort they put on Tsushima and they even created a great multiplayer mode with Legends. If its true they have a new standalone for this year, this is really great news.
Santa Monica = They reinvented themselves on PS4 gen. It took time, but they are good now. God of War was unique enough and for me it only took them 5 years to make a master piece. We have to remember they jumped from Ascension (2013) to a complete and bigger experience with the new God of War (2018). We have 343i and Coalition that also needed to do the same for halo and gears ip and they just couldn't do it.
Those are just some examples.
What happens when they start to work on next gen tech? They are already working on it or do you think Sony first party devs are the last ones to receive dev kits? Also, Sony WWS has Ice Team to work exclusively on tech for all the studios and the studios already have a sinergy to share techs.
I think all studios can do even better this gen. The ones that didn't have any problems will continue to do good and the ones that did have difficulties are in the right path now. Games with smaller scope will continue to exist, no dev works only on AAA, people are not machine, this is delusional. And I look at Ubisoft and I thank God Sony devs are not like their devs.