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Opinion Drama Clickbait From now on let's every game to the same standards than cyberpunk

Aug 28, 2019
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Not dipping into low teen framerates, not such atrociously bad rendering and pop in, you know, basic stuff. They said it was going to be cool and I trusted that. They said they developed it for those consoles, I guess I was supposed to mind read and figure that meant "we're making a Crysis and if we have time we'll shit out a console port." Bugs were expected, but this goes way beyond that imo.

I'd have to see what they said but to me they're PC devs and they're the gold standard for PC comes first, consoles be damned, which is what many PC gamers have wanted for a long time now from AAA developers.
 

Nymphae

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I'd have to see what they said but to me they're PC devs and they're the gold standard for PC comes first, consoles be damned, which is what many PC gamers have wanted for a long time now from AAA developers.

Eh, that doesn't excuse it. They were hugely deceptive about what they knew they would be selling people. It's just straight up scummy I see no other way to look at that.
 
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bender

Bending Rodríguez (22, 1,729)
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Yeah, I'm past sick of the haters and their crap, my bro has it on the One X, no game looks that good while having that much shit packed into it, you wanna come at me with RDR 2? Way more sparse, way less NPCs, way less objects in any given environment, the list goes on and on... how did anyone think this would perform better than it does? Did you think CDPR could perform miracles after the much less dense, much less interactive Witcher III couldn't hold 30 FPS on your ancient crap machines? Fuck outta here.

Maybe don't release it on "ancient crap machines" if they can't get acceptable performance levels? The game obviously needed more time in the oven before release across all platforms, last generation especially. That's why CDPR hid those version from the press.
 
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Woggleman

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If you sell a game for a certain console it should be in working order. This might be game of the year but if it doesn't work on a base PS4 it shouldn't have been released.
 
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Eh, that doesn't excuse it. They were hugely deceptive about what they knew they would be selling people. It's just straight up scummy I see no other way to look at that.

I dunno what you guys mean by deceptive, though, can you name a company that told you "hey, on x platform the framerate will tank below 30 constantly and it'll be full of glitches and often ugly, enjoy!" - like what publisher says shit like this? There is no game in existence that told you they'd be a shit launch at launch, especially if being a shit launch was platform dependent.
 
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But that system is in the game. If you commit enough crime you need to pay the police to stop attacking you on sight.

Maybe don't release it on "ancient crap machines" if they can't get acceptable performance levels? The game obviously needed more time in the oven before release across all platforms, last generation especially. That's why CDPR hid those version from the press.

I agree, I'm just assuming they had commitments that couldn't be broken, I'm no expert on how this world works but I can't recall many games dropping entire platforms they're advertised for. And there certainly aren't any games that you can play on a Pro or One X you can't on base, are there? Did people think this would be the first? And I can't stress enough... this game runs better than anyone should expect on One X, maybe I don't see how it runs on base consoles, we don't have those in my home, but on the One X? This is what people are complaining about? This game is doing so much more than any other game on this platform and the performance really isn't THAT bad. It's exaggerated beyond believe. I also don't agree with the idea they hid last gen, their last two videos showed One X and Pro footage actually and we could all see it looked a little rocky.
 
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Only allowing b-roll of the PC version for the game for the review embargo.

That has nothing to do with last gen consoles, though? Most times when a critic only allows b-roll it's because they want to avoid spoilers, it's not like the critic can't comment on it being buggy without footage of the bugs, right? No one has come out and said they weren't allowed to fully detail their actual experience, and keep in mind the reviews for PC were before the day 1 patch, meaning they were even buggier than the current PC build, that should clue you guys into the fact that it really ISN'T that buggy on PC.
 

ReBurn

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The more hype there is for a game the harder the backlash when it doesn't meet expectations. We absolutely should hold everything we spend our time and money on to a high standard.
 
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bender

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But that system is in the game. If you commit enough crime you need to pay the police to stop attacking you on sight.



I agree, I'm just assuming they had commitments that couldn't be broken, I'm no expert on how this world works but I can't recall many games dropping entire platforms they're advertised for. And there certainly aren't any games that you can play on a Pro or One X you can't on base, are there? Did people think this would be the first? And I can't stress enough... this game runs better than anyone should expect on One X, maybe I don't see how it runs on base consoles, we don't have those in my home, but on the One X? This is what people are complaining about? This game is doing so much more than any other game on this platform and the performance really isn't THAT bad. It's exaggerated beyond believe. I also don't agree with the idea they hid last gen, their last two videos showed One X and Pro footage actually and we could all see it looked a little rocky.

Of last generation, One X is by far the minority of the userbase. I'm actually of the opposite opinion of this thread entirely. I'm shocked the game is reviewing as well as it is no matter what platform it is being played on. People are giving CDPR a lot of rope because of the excellent support the Witcher 3 received but there is no way the game should have released given it's current shape.
 

Nymphae

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I dunno what you guys mean by deceptive, though, can you name a company that told you "hey, on x platform the framerate will tank below 30 constantly and it'll be full of glitches and often ugly, enjoy!"

Dude they forced people to not share their console port footage before it dropped. SCUMMY AS FUCK.

And the quotes are out there if you want to deny them that's fine, but they said it would work on base consoles. The working assumption was that this was a current gen game, they did nothing to dispel that notion, they backed it. Like this is the kind of talk I remember from press:



"developed for current gen consoles", "next gen ports will come later"

"our full attention is on current gen" (this article is from july of last year)
 
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bender

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That has nothing to do with last gen consoles, though? Most times when a critic only allows b-roll it's because they want to avoid spoilers, it's not like the critic can't comment on it being buggy without footage of the bugs, right? No one has come out and said they weren't allowed to fully detail their actual experience, and keep in mind the reviews for PC were before the day 1 patch, meaning they were even buggier than the current PC build, that should clue you guys into the fact that it really ISN'T that buggy on PC.

Reviewers had no access to console versions. That has everything to do with the sad state the game released on the consoles. The b-roll limitation had nothing to do with hiding spoilers either, unless you consider the torrent of bugs that plagued the game spoilers. Plenty of publishers/developers let people run their own footage but ask them to avoid spoilers without limiting them to PR B-Roll.
 
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Of last generation, One X is by far the minority of the userbase. I'm actually of the opposite opinion of this thread entirely. I'm shocked the game is reviewing as well as it is no matter what platform it is being played on. People are giving CDPR a lot of rope because of the excellent support the Witcher 3 received but there is no way the game should have released given it's current shape.

I think we can't know the position they were forced into. At some point in development they must have known it couldn't release this year on anything but PC (to be fair they also probably were fine with releasing it for PS5 and XSX because even without next-gen patches it's good shit on those). Could you imagine if they launched PC and next-gen only, though? Total shitstorm online, most the player base has no access, people would be screaming they don't care if it's unfinished they WANT THAT SHIT. Nevermind the unavoidable spoilers that would begin spilling out in front of them. That said, if they needed to launch everywhere at once (most likely) I could have waited longer, I wouldn't have minded another delay until Spring, but I'm sure their investors would have.
 

bender

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I think we can't know the position they were forced into. At some point in development they must have known it couldn't release this year on anything but PC (to be fair they also probably were fine with releasing it for PS5 and XSX because even without next-gen patches it's good shit on those). Could you imagine if they launched PC and next-gen only, though? Total shitstorm online, most the player base has no access, people would be screaming they don't care if it's unfinished they WANT THAT SHIT. Nevermind the unavoidable spoilers that would begin spilling out in front of them. That said, if they needed to launch everywhere at once (most likely) I could have waited longer, I wouldn't have minded another delay until Spring, but I'm sure their investors would have.

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts...
 
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Dude they forced people to not share their console port footage before it dropped. SCUMMY AS FUCK.

And the quotes are out there if you want to deny them that's fine, but they said it would work on base consoles. The working assumption was that this was a current gen game, they did nothing to dispel that notion, they backed it. Like this is the kind of talk I remember from press:



"developed for current gen consoles", "next gen ports will come later"

"our full attention is on current gen" (this article is from july of last year)
Reviewers had no access to console versions. That has everything to do with the sad state the game released on the consoles. The b-roll limitation had nothing to do with hiding spoilers either, unless you consider the torrent of bugs that plagued the game spoilers.


If they had no access to console versions how could they deny people the ability to share their console port footage? I know you two are two different people but I wish I could argue with one narrative and not a split one. I mean, that quote is true, though? Next-gen consoles only have a patch coming down the line later, who knows when but not this year.

Again, every critic for PC was able to complain about bugs and did, do gamers need to SEE them to realize it's a problem? I don't get it.
 

Virt McPolygon

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Imagine being so suckered by marketing hype, that you make excuses for a game that had nearly a decade of development and was still released undercooked.

But, hey.. YoURe BrEAtHtaking!
 

bender

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Again, every critic for PC was able to complain about bugs and did, do gamers need to SEE them to realize it's a problem? I don't get it.

It's not 2001. We live in a world were video content is king and written content is consumed less and less. And as far as I know, most reviewers were only given access to PC version for review purposes. CDPR's strategy was obvious and given it's Metacritic average, it worked.
 
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Nymphae

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If they had no access to console versions how could they deny people the ability to share their console port footage? I know you two are two different people but I wish I could argue with one narrative and not a split one. I mean, that quote is true, though? Next-gen consoles only have a patch coming down the line later, who knows when but not this year.

Again, every critic for PC was able to complain about bugs and did, do gamers need to SEE them to realize it's a problem? I don't get it.

Reviewers were prevented from showing their own console footage which might have made some people cancel preorders. PC bugs and base console bugs are fairly substantially different. I don't know how you can not see this as scummy, I'm glad the PC game is good but maybe they should have marketed it as a high end PC game first and not a current Gen console game, which despite everything they said pre release, the game is clearly not.
 
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It's not 2001. We live in a world were video content is king and written content is consumed less and less. And as far as I know, most reviewers were only given access to PC version for review purposes. CDPR's strategy was obvious and given it's Metacritic average, it worked.

This is all true, but none of it is inherently deceptive. Lots of games only allow B-roll and it's usually for spoiler reasons. Lots of games are only available to critics pre-release on whatever the lead platform was.

Reviewers were revented from showing their own console footage which might have made some people cancel preorders. PC bugs and base console bugs are fairly substantially different. I don't know how you can not see this as scummy, I'm glad the PC game is good but maybe they should have marketed it as a high end PC game first and not a current Gen console game, which despite evetyhring they said pre release, the game is clearly not.

They did not have console footage because no critic was given a console version pre-release.
 

Nymphae

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They did not have console footage because no critic was given a console version pre-release.

lol yeah that's not scummy at all, why would you not let reviewers review and show the base game you said your full attention was on? Hmmm.....

I'm not digging for it but I watched a video in one of the threads here from an asian reviewer who said he had his own console footage and was embargoed from showing it or something, IIRC I heard a similar story in the IGN video review for the base consoles
 
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lol yeah that's not scummy at all, why would you not let reviewers review and show the base game you said your full attention was on? Hmmm.....

Most publishers give out review copies for their lead platform, though, think about how many multiplats this past gen had 100 reviews on PS4 and 4 on Xbox.
 

Chris_Rivera

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It got skewered because it wasn’t ready, especially on last gen consoles. They even publicly apologized for that and other bugs. All games get skewered for bugs or shit AI, Cyberpunk just was a big game and had a huge audience. Don’t cry 😭
 
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Dude, why would they not let people review the version they said their full attention was on. HMMMM

According to your own quote their full attention was on current gen AND PC. That's three different platforms for "full attention". If it had released like most games do, with dozens of PS4 reviews, 4 XBOX reviews and 6 PC reviews you guys would act like it was no problem, even if the PS4 had the best version, the PC had a lazy port and the XBOX ran worse than PS4. Because most gamers are on PS4 and you guys have the market cornered, finally a game is made with PC in mind first and the freakout is unbelievable because there's too many of you to ignore. No one cared about us PC gamers getting shafted on game after game, never getting as much review coverage, etc. suddenly it's the most dishonest shit ever to not send out review code for PS4 before release, though. Sorry, I'm not going to cry for you guys, you didn't cry for us, in fact any time a game is better on PS4 is a feather in your cap as a win in the platform wars, better meme it up, show a gif of DJ Khaled saying ANOTHER ONE, you guys win, we lose... but hey... if the tables are flipped, YOU BETTER NOT ENJOY YOUR SUPERIOR EXPERIENCE WITHOUT ACKNOWLEDGE OUR SUFFERING
 
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mr.dilya

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I agree to a certain extent, but they did go overboard with the hype. I mean I personally have never seen a game hyped to this degree. You can do that but you better make sure the game is perfect from to bottom....which it certainly isn’t.

BUT it is a great game and the best new release game I’ve played since sekiro....and it is way better than GTA and RDR2 in my opinion so I don’t regret buying it one bit.
 

Nymphae

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According to your own quote their full attention was on current gen AND PC

How did that work out for current gen folks lol. Full attention my fucking asshole. It's obvious that it was a high end PC game first and they struggled to make ports. Not allowing 2/3rds of the released versions to be assessed and shown before release date is scummy, there is no other reason to hide your work from assessment besides, we want to sell as many of these as we can before the cat is out of the bag.
 

harmny

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Imagine being so suckered by marketing hype, that you make excuses for a game that had nearly a decade of development and was still released undercooked.

But, hey.. YoURe BrEAtHtaking!

the game didn't had nearly a decade of development. it started development after the witcher 3 came out in 2015 and the entire team moved to cyberpunk after blood and wine came out in may 2016. it was announced nearly a decade ago the same way the elder scrolls 6 was announced in 2018 and it's not in development at all. when that game launches in 2026 or later are you going to say it had a decade of development?

Cyberpunk 2077 has a lot of flaws I won't deny that. But seeing Cyberpunk 2077 with a lower score on open critic than a boring ass game like AC: Valhalla, which is basically just AC:Origins reskinned for the 3rd time, is the worst joke I've seen in a long fucking time.

and random npcs in AC are as dumb as a rock. you can't sit or eat anywhere in fact until origins you couldn't even crouch. you can't have meaningful conversations with anyone and nobody criticizes the game for that. even the stealth is bad and the game is about assassins. and i love AC. btw. horizon zero dawn is even worse and everyone loves that game.
 
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ruvikx

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This game really did a number on some people.

It's amazing. And I'm not just talking about gamers either (on both sides, i.e. pro CDPR versus antis). Cyberpunk is basically a microcosm of all things good & bad in the industry, with both extremes (very good & very bad) on full display. Where do we even start? The good? Amazing art, amazing soundtrack, highly skilled people created a world which on high-end PC offers wonderful imagery. I do not doubt people with expensive hardware are getting "immersed" considering the visuals on display. It's impressive stuff when it runs well.

The bad? CDPR lied in their marketing, their interviews, hid the state of the console versions & oversold the game's mechanism's with false advertising. Mechanically speaking the game has serious problems which open world titles like GTA IV & co over ten years ago did far better (wanted system, AI in general). This is already problematic for an ambitious title, but when all the interviews & marketing over the past few years claimed they'd created something way better... (even than other games), yeah, no comment.

Now we also have a delirious post-mortem apology where CDPR have asked people to seek refunds without actually organizing anything with Sony beforehand. And then there's the fact buggy, glitched releases have become steadily worse & worse over the years & Cyberpunk is pretty much the poster-child of screwed-up day one purchases (beating games like Anthem, Fallout 76 & co to the title of unfinished day-one mess of the generation). This in & of itself calls into question the gaming trend whereby games are accepted to be unfinished since post-release patches have become the norm.

Cyberpunk 2077 is the final gift this year of 2020 gave us & it keeps on giving.
 

Airola

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This is a video game based on a popular tabletop role playing game where you are free to do virtually anything you can imagine. Expectations are going to be extremely high, especially if the developers are hyping it up even further.
 
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How did that work out for current gen folks lol. Full attention my fucking asshole. It's obvious that it was a high end PC game first and they struggled to make ports. Not allowing 2/3rds of the released versions to be assessed and shown before release date is scummy, there is no other reason to hide your work from assessment besides, we want to sell as many of these as we can before the cat is out of the bag.

I dunno, I still don't agree with you really. To me the game performs better than Deus Ex Mankind Divided did on a PS4 Pro while having much more going on in it. It's clearly buggier than that but I dunno, I never let bugs ruin an experience for me, I'm a Bethesda fan after all. To me at least the performance is about as bad as the majority of games for these consoles, I dunno, I don't get why this is suddenly the game to draw the ire of you guys, though again I'm not talking base consoles, I don't understand why people on an enthusiast forum are still playing on a base PS4 or base XB1. Not saying that makes it okay to release a game in shit shape for those but I definitely don't get it.
 

Nymphae

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I dunno, I still don't agree with you really. To me the game performs better than Deus Ex Mankind Divided did on a PS4 Pro while having much more going on in it.

You're playing on PC are you not?

It's clearly buggier than that but I dunno, I never let bugs ruin an experience for me, I'm a Bethesda fan after all.

Same, I literally don't care about the majority of buggy games, I heard people complaining that this was going to be Witcher 3 all over again and I was like I don't give a shit about bugs, they have a good reputation for patching stuff and I haven't played a game with game breaking bugs maybe ever. I wasn't worried.

To me at least the performance is about as bad as the majority of games for these consoles, I dunno, I don't get why this is suddenly the game to draw the ire of you guys

I'm not like fuck CDPR for life, I said I'm glad the actual real game they developed is doing well and blowing minds, and I want that game, I can't wait to play it. The ire comes from the deception that everyone else seems to be able to see but you? They lied about it, period.

I don't understand why people on an enthusiast forum are still playing on a base PS4 or base XB1

It's a gaming forum, that doesn't mean we all have high end rigs. I think you'll find the base current gen consoles are probably the platforms with the largest base. If I hadn't gotten my PS5 this year, I'd still be rocking my base PS4.
 
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You're playing on PC are you not?



Same, I literally don't care about the majority of buggy games, I heard people complaining that this was going to be Witcher 3 all over again and I was like I don't give a shit about bugs, they have a good reputation for patching stuff and I haven't played a game with game breaking bugs maybe ever. I wasn't worried.



I'm not like fuck CDPR for life, I said I'm glad the actual real game they developed is doing well and blowing minds, and I want that game, I can't wait to play it. The ire comes from the deception that everyone else seems to be able to see but you? They lied about it, period.



It's a gaming forum, that doesn't mean we all have high end rigs. I think you'll find the base current gen consoles are probably the platforms with the largest base. If I hadn't gotten my PS5 this year, I'd still be rocking my base PS4.

I am, but I said I've sat and watched my brother play on the One X, it's fun seeing how differently he does missions to me, it looks fine... I mean... compared to most other games he plays on there? I'm not seeing how it's so much worse than the standards of that platform.

So you're not on base PS4, then? Are you complaining on behalf of others? I genuinely wonder how many people on here mad are really saddled with a base console. I'm sure there's some. All I was saying is requiring reviewers use b-roll footage and only having day 1 reviews for 1 platform isn't unheard of at all in gaming, this time it turns out there are platforms that run the game exceptionally poorly, this usually isn't the case and as a result people don't normally complain about these practices. I can agree these practices being so normal is probably why people didn't sniff this out before sitting down to play, we're used to it and they certainly used industry norms to their advantage here. I think the thought process for CDPR was that after the buggy launch Witcher III had they could get away with saying they'd eventually fix it but this time they were wrong, probably mostly because of how much more popular this game is, 8 million pre-orders probably made their jaws drop but that's way more exposure to the problems, lots of people DON'T EVEN KNOW Witcher III had a rocky launch because so many got into it post-launch when someone else told them how great it was. If this proves anything to me, it's that it's better to launch soft and survive on word of mouth than launch big and watch word of mouth cripple you before you can fix your issues.
 

Nymphae

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So you're not on base PS4, then? Are you complaining on behalf of others?

I'm just calling the turd I can see a turd, that's all. The base PS4 version is one of the worst performing games I've ever personally seen. I'm not particularly mad about anything, I'll wait for a good release and next time CDPR is selling something I'll take a wait and see approach instead of preordering.
 
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People are hypocrites, who'd have thought. Reviewing games relative to their expectations, not to some vaguely objectifyable standard. People where expecting the second coming of christ with CP77.
 

Virt McPolygon

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the game didn't had nearly a decade of development. it started development after the witcher 3 came out in 2015 and the entire team moved to cyberpunk after blood and wine came out in may 2016. it was announced nearly a decade ago the same way the elder scrolls 6 was announced in 2018 and it's not in development at all. when that game launches in 2026 or later are you going to say it had a decade of development?
Pre production is definitely part of the development cycle. Which started nearly a decade ago.
 
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harmny

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Pre production is definitely part of the development cycle. Which started nearly a decade ago.

sure it is. but if you don't really have developers until 2016 the argument of how is this game so buggy it started development 8 years ago doesn't really make much sense. half of that time was just a small team probably writing and making some prototypes or concepts until the witcher 3 was finished and patched.
 
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Dane

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Cyberpunk 2077 has a lot of flaws I won't deny that. But seeing Cyberpunk 2077 with a lower score on open critic than a boring ass game like AC: Valhalla, which is basically just AC:Origins reskinned for the 3rd time, is the worst joke I've seen in a long fucking time.

Because they played safe and smart, not risky and bad.

One thing is you creating a great game overall with technical issues that is something new to the market, you'll be a cult classic instantly, just like STALKER. Another is doing core stuff plain wrong, which is the case of Cyberpunk.
 
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FunkMiller

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I don't get this whole "Witcher 3 was unplayable at launch" thing. I got it day one and enjoyed tf out of the game. My biggest complaint was combat and some slowdown. Nothing gamebreaking.

Folks have extremely short memories. W3 was nowhere near as bad as Cyberpunk.
 
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kingpotato

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I don't get this whole "Witcher 3 was unplayable at launch" thing. I got it day one and enjoyed tf out of the game. My biggest complaint was combat and some slowdown. Nothing gamebreaking.
Not really no. Some performance issues but that’s it. Nothing like Cyberpunk. Witcher 3 Switch version has better performance than Cyberpunk and probably higher NPCs.
Incorrect. It's not even in the same ballpark as how broken 2077 is. And that's coming from someone who thinks Witcher 3 is the most overrated game of the generation.
Nah, not really.
The W3's issues still allowed it to score 93 on Metacritic. This game is 89 and falling, so I cant see this being held in the same regard. Let's face it, bugs aside, the world the game is set in and the story are not as good.

Full disclosure I haven't played CP2077 yet, but witcher 3 on launch ps4 had horrible frame-rate and I personally ran into many bugs with the ui, option settings, NPCs, quests, physics, ai, etc. Not uncommon for an open world game and it doesn't stop people from playing it, but that is the reality.
 
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Starfield

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Cyberpunk 2077 has a lot of flaws I won't deny that. But seeing Cyberpunk 2077 with a lower score on open critic than a boring ass game like AC: Valhalla, which is basically just AC:Origins reskinned for the 3rd time, is the worst joke I've seen in a long fucking time.
well AC: Valhalla actually delivered what they have promised while Cyberpunk was a game overhyped as fuck even by the developers saying you can basically do anything and once it released those promises where nothing but talk
 
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well AC: Valhalla actually delivered what they have promised while Cyberpunk was a game overhyped as fuck even by the developers saying you can basically do anything and once it released those promises where nothing but talk

"Hey, it's another AC game... this time it's viking themed! You like that, right?" Actually, there are some things they didn't deliver on, for instance they claimed Valhalla would have less filler and not be as long as Odyssey, but it turns out it's even longer and requires you to do open world filler to get to the end. One critic I like watching got fed up with it, I think Skill Up? Worth peeping that if you get a chance.
 

Concern

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Full disclosure I haven't played CP2077 yet, but witcher 3 on launch ps4 had horrible frame-rate and I personally ran into many bugs with the ui, option settings, NPCs, quests, physics, ai, etc. Not uncommon for an open world game and it doesn't stop people from playing it, but that is the reality.


I played it on my launch ps4 from launch day. Still didn't get much besides some slowdown.
 

bender

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Full disclosure I haven't played CP2077 yet, but witcher 3 on launch ps4 had horrible frame-rate and I personally ran into many bugs with the ui, option settings, NPCs, quests, physics, ai, etc. Not uncommon for an open world game and it doesn't stop people from playing it, but that is the reality.

Witcher 3 performed particularly bad in the swamp area at launch. This is the earliest DF video I could find but if 2077 performed as well, I don't think we'd hear as many complaints.

 
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