Support NeoGAF

[M°°nblade]

So you do agree it was a design choice, and not a technical limitation? Given that then, is it not easy to see that it had worth as a choice and not a limitation? That it's role in the game was more than a requirement? Surely that then is the answer to how you define something as integral, which you do yourself above. That was my argument, that it mattered.

It's both.
Like I first said, a world map was needed in order to make the game 'explorable'. The world map was, at that time, a conventional and technically viable means to that goal, not the goal on itself. Lot's of blockbuster games feature exploration today without a world map, while only the low - mid tier budget JRPG's still use it.

CAT GIF
Ok, I get this position, but my answer would be anything that defined it as what it was, that is not readily improved upon by current titles. There is no alternative to a map, that provides the same as a map. Without it, it is simply lacking something, rather than altering it. The combat system can be updated and keep it's original premise, as can cutscenes and environments. I just view the map as an element that isn't upgradable in the sense that you can just remove it entirely without loss.

How is an optionally recruitable character an integral part of a game? He was never present in the CGI cutscenes. And I never recruited him (can't remember if I recruited Yuffie) in my first playthrough.
You need to separate nostalgic sentiments and personal preferences from what, technically, should be included in a remake, or should be an integral part of the remake design. This doesn't necessarily have to be the same design as the original game. Yes, without a world map, FFVII RE would lack something, but nothing that cannot be compensated with other features that were never implemented or possible on the PS1. The problem isn't the upgradability or the lack of alternatives to feature exploration, it's how FFVII's point-to-point travels fit into the existing narrative (unless ofcourse the narrative is rewritten as well, but I assume this is the starting point for the development).

My answer to that is actually yes in the case of FF12. I considered the game poorer than those that came before it, though it's encounter system is also to blame for that appraisal. I'm sure there are many that agree, just as there are those that don't. I never said the game would be doomed. I simply argue that it's something important to the game that is worth keeping, and also that it is easily able to be kept.

That's just your preference. You're (just like me) part of the old install base. None of what you think is worth keeping, may mean something to somebody who never played the original, or someone who did but doesn't care anymore. Or it may be considered a negative as well. I'm all for keeping as much good elements as intact as possible, but for a 2016 (or TBA?) game, you first need to reevaluate which parts are still good and which ones should be replaced by new mechanics like stealth, puzzles, climbing, newgame+, etc ... You can't have everything so design choices have to be made.

 

[Arkeband]

If any character is truly worth cutting, it's Cait Sith. His narrative arc is "Oh no, I died! JK!"

I understand his insider status with Shinra as being semi-important, but that's only for a small segment. Cait Sith has like one line in Advent Children, that's how garbage he was. He's slightly less useless than Quina from FFIX. He's replaceable, and he's going to be the hardest to redesign into something that doesn't look utterly ridiculous bouncing along next to Sickly Cloud and Gritty Barrett. He's also going to be the hardest to come up with an interesting playstyle for with action combat.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

He's also going to be the hardest to come up with an interesting playstyle for with action combat.

Red XIII

 

[Napalm_Frank]

If any character is truly worth cutting, it's Cait Sith. His narrative arc is "Oh no, I died! JK!"

I understand his insider status with Shinra as being semi-important, but that's only for a small segment. Cait Sith has like one line in Advent Children, that's how garbage he was. He's slightly less useless than Quina from FFIX. He's replaceable, and he's going to be the hardest to redesign into something that doesn't look utterly ridiculous bouncing along next to Sickly Cloud and Gritty Barrett. He's also going to be the hardest to come up with an interesting playstyle for with action combat.

He is mostly harmless. I think the thing they need to do with him is make him really unique gameplay wise. Double down on the ''gambler'' job. Make him be the goofball in action gameplay to stand out. Have him throw bomb dice around while using slot reels to summon toy soldiers around the battlefield.

As to how better make him ''fit in'' just make him feel more like a robot he is. Have cluncy sounds and stuff while he moves.

 

[Sami+]

day one buy, already pre-ordered

Spoiler

I'm actually totally cool with the announcement lol I'm just playin

 

[nictron]

I just need Palmer to be knocked over by the Tiny Bronco and good music.

 

[Arkeband]

Red XIII

He's a close second, but there have been enough action games where you're a dog/wolf/etc and run "through" enemies while slashing/biting them or whatever.

Kingdom Hearts 2 had this:

 

[Two Words]

If any character is truly worth cutting, it's Cait Sith. His narrative arc is "Oh no, I died! JK!"

I understand his insider status with Shinra as being semi-important, but that's only for a small segment. Cait Sith has like one line in Advent Children, that's how garbage he was. He's slightly less useless than Quina from FFIX. He's replaceable, and he's going to be the hardest to redesign into something that doesn't look utterly ridiculous bouncing along next to Sickly Cloud and Gritty Barrett. He's also going to be the hardest to come up with an interesting playstyle for with action combat.

Uhh. Think how many lines most of the characters in Advent Children have.

 

[afternoon delight]

gst's bodacious predictions:

-the complete package will still be on a far smaller scope than the original ff7
-each episode will vary in quality and will be farmed out to various teams
-optional side quests and exploration will be close to non-existent
-no overworld or transition between the locations of each episode
-there will be no finite number of episodes, with various side stories or EU filler being brought in if sales are good
-if sales are bad, the story will be massively abridged with production values significantly dropping
-character progression will only exist on a micro scale, with each episode effectively being mechanically standalone
-the first episode will leave an optimism that the rest will sorely fail to live up to

 

[Calabi]

The main problem with this, is I can't see how they could do this in Game 1. They could make it work for Game 2 and onward... however.

Game 1 really needs to end when leaving Midgar. Unless they go MUCH farther beyond it. And I just don't see that happening. But it would be the best possible scenario... making it a 2-3 part series. And really, Trilogies are the way to go anyways...

Why does the first game need to end with Midgar? It wouldn't be a trilogy because it would need to continue for 6 and above games. Midgar can be completed in less than 10 hours, its a small tiny part of the first disc.

It would be the worst possible scenario. You get to the end of the dark city, and it says, To Be Continued? Then it ends up not selling well and they end up canning the rest.

 

[Vice]

The main problem with this, is I can't see how they could do this in Game 1. They could make it work for Game 2 and onward... however.

Game 1 really needs to end when leaving Midgar. Unless they go MUCH farther beyond it. And I just don't see that happening. But it would be the best possible scenario... making it a 2-3 part series. And really, Trilogies are the way to go anyways...

Midgar. First flashback. And a few more story beats. Maybe end with Aertith going off on her own or right before the Temple of the Ancients. Just have to trima little bit of the other sections.

 

[Kor of Memory]

Midgar. First flashback. And a few more story beats. Maybe end with Aertith going off on her own or right before the Temple of the Ancients. Just have to trima little bit of the other sections.

Best place to end would be just before Cosmo Canyon when you get the buggy. This gives players a way to roam the world, and even the old continent with a vehicle, and just explore and do some sidequests. maybe even open up the Battle arena of Gold Saucer a little earlier or something.

Basically, make Gold Saucer the Climax

 

[brandonh83]

I imagine they may do each part like a full story. Like they will have a final boss and ending somehow, with the final part ending with your northern crater and Sephiroth standoff. Story would require some rewriting and structuring, but it could be done, being a remake/reimagining. Perhaps not a final boss or ending in the traditional sense, but something of the sort. I also think each part will be longer than some think; the first part isn't going to end at Midgar. That'd mean a LOT of installments.

 

[squall211]

Why does the first game need to end with Midgar? It wouldn't be a trilogy because it would need to continue for 6 and above games. Midgar can be completed in less than 10 hours, its a small tiny part of the first disc.

It would be the worst possible scenario. You get to the end of the dark city, and it says, To Be Continued? Then it ends up not selling well and they end up canning the rest.

Midgar can be completed in < 10 hours if they don't expand on anything. There would be plenty they could expand on. I'm not saying that's either a good or bad thing.

There's just so many ways they can go with this that really anybody's guess is as good as anyone else's at this point.

My *guess* is that if they did this in three episodes, Episode 1 would end at the end of the highway in Midgar, Episode 2 would end where Disc 1 ended, and Episode 3 would be the rest of the game.

 

[Kor of Memory]

I imagine they may do each part like a full story. Like they will have a final boss and ending somehow, with the final part ending with your northern crater and Sephiroth standoff. Story would require some rewriting and structuring, but it could be done, being a remake/reimagining. Perhaps not a final boss or ending in the traditional sense, but something of the sort. I also think each part will be longer than some think; the first part isn't going to end at Midgar. That'd mean a LOT of installments.

If first part ended with Midgar, second part would end with Gold Saurcer, Third part would end with Norther Crater, Fourth part would end with Huge Materia, and Fifth part would finish the game.

If you're going by content from the original, each of those section would last you 7-12 hours.

 

[Koozek]

Do you think FFVII Remake is coming this gen in the place of a hypothetical FF16?


So we wont be seeing FF16 until sometime in the next cycle? I kinda wouldn't mind that. And TBH I am not even expecting the FF7 remake to be complete by the time PS5 is out.

If I'm totally honest, I'd be bummed if FFVII held up FFXVI until 2019/2020. I mean, FFVII is my all-time fave and it's obviously surreal that we're really getting the remake, which hits all the right notes for me so far, BUT: in the end it's a game I already played dozens of times since I was 8. I know what's coming, I just don't know what it will look like yet.

I've probably always been looking forward to the remake not because of the game itself, but rather for the hype and drama surrounding a reveal. Now that the early excitement after the recent trailer calmed down and I'm already tired of these threads' endless overreactions, I came to realize that I'm actually looking forward to FFXV and, well, FFXVI more again. I'm anxious for the new.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

I don't think Part 1 ends with Midgar. It will probably end with Aeris "scene". I bet everything on a 2 part entry.

I think ending the first halfthere would make the issue of the "scope being too big for one game" rather dubious, because by that time you'd already have seen the majority of the game's assets.

The main problem with this, is I can't see how they could do this in Game 1. They could make it work for Game 2 and onward... however.

Game 1 really needs to end when leaving Midgar. Unless they go MUCH farther beyond it. And I just don't see that happening. But it would be the best possible scenario... making it a 2-3 part series. And really, Trilogies are the way to go anyways...

They could always insert the world map post-game for players to goof around in.

I'm in two minds about ending the first game on the Midgar conclusion. On one hand, it is ultimately a small segment of the whole game content-wise. On the other hand, it is just so perfect narrative-wise. It has all the proper dramatic points and character arc.

If first part ended with Midgar, second part would end with Gold Saurcer, Third part would end with Norther Crater, Fourth part would end with Huge Materia, and Fifth part would finish the game.

If you're going by content from the original, each of those section would last you 7-12 hours.

This is a nice breakdown, really. Third part's ending would be really exciting and climatic. Fourth's ending with stopping Diamond Weapon from reaching Midgar is also rather good. I'm iffy about the second part, though. What's the most important thing that happens there? Dyne? Perhaps they could tweak the overall story a bit to put more focus on Barret's personal journey (which admittedly, along with the whole AVALANCHE thing is a bit half baked in the original game).

 

[Zukuu]

I think ending the first halfthere would make the issue of the "scope being too big for one game" rather dubious, because by that time you'd already have seen the majority of the game's assets.

But it's not like we have access to all areas within those locations. I mean we ARE talking about "full games" of content, so I don't think we expect less here. I rather think they will flesh out midgar + keep the rest somewhat similar and expand the second part more.

 

[ZenTzen]

But it's not like we have access to all areas within those locations. I mean we ARE talking about "full games" of content, so I don't think we expect less here. I rather think they will flesh out midgar + keep the rest somewhat similar and expand the second part more.

i thought a bit about it, and i reckon that the first part will not end in midgar, yeah we have the whole shinra HQ, the bike chase, but the boss before leaving midgar just doesnt feel, final boss status to me, i think, and this is based on a previous poster, that a good part to finish the first part, is the boat ride, not only is it the first major appearance of "sephiroth" it can also end in a final boss fight against JENOVA as well before reaching the other continent, and its not like theres alot after leaving midgar, and it also gives enough room to expand stuff outside of midgar as well, with kalm, and the whole nibelheim backstory, chocobo ranch, midgar zolom, fort condor and junon

while in terms of gameplay it can provide the first instances of chocobo riding and summon magic with choco/mog, shiva and maybe ifrit

 

[lawnchair]

i predict that this project is going to be a complete disaster. nobody wanted this.

w

t

f

 

[LowParry]

i predict that this project is going to be a complete disaster. nobody wanted this.

w

t

f

Millions want this.

 

[Sacul64GC]

Millions want this.

Millions wanted a FFVII Remake not FFVII-I, FFVII-II and FFVII Cloud Returns all at $60.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

i thought a bit about it, and i reckon that the first part will not end in midgar, yeah we have the whole shinra HQ, the bike chase, but the boss before leaving midgar just doesnt feel, final boss status to me, i think, and this is based on a previous poster, that a good part to finish the first part, is the boat ride, not only is it the first major appearance of "sephiroth" it can also end in a final boss fight against JENOVA as well before reaching the other continent, and its not like theres alot after leaving midgar, and it also gives enough room to expand stuff outside of midgar as well, with kalm, and the whole nibelheim backstory, chocobo ranch, midgar zolom, fort condor and junon

while in terms of gameplay it can provide the first instances of chocobo riding and summon magic with choco/mog, shiva and maybe ifrit

JENOVA is a bigger boss compared to Rufus Shinra, true, but narrative-wise it would be a pretty anti-climatic end to a game. At that point the crew has no immediate stake and goal other than sneaking into a ship when suddenly Sephiroth appears out of nowhere. If they wanted to make each game feels like something that could standalone rather than like an episode in a TV series, I think that'd be a misstep.

Though I guess they could tweak the story to include some kind of a build up.


As an aside, it's probably better to just speak for ourselves and use terms like "I" or "me" instead claims that would incite pointless contention like "nobody" and "millions".

 

[bounchfx]

gotta milk dat cow son! woop!

 

[LowParry]

Millions wanted a FFVII Remake not FFVII-I, FFVII-II and FFVII Cloud Returns all at $60.

I'm pretty sure you're talking about GAF not wanting these. But hey that can change when we get more info in what we're getting.

 

[ZenTzen]

Millions wanted a FFVII Remake not FFVII-I, FFVII-II and FFVII Cloud Returns all at $60.

sure, but, if this move is to ensure that theres no "cuts" and to provide a similar, or better experience, instead of being FFVII cliffnotes, then i'm all up for it, but dont get me wrong, i still have reservations about this move as well, like character progression like leveling, weapons, materia, the world map, highwind, or if they are gonna do the stupid thing and change the gameplay from game to game, if it changes, i'm gonna be pissed, but, if its just something as simple as a disk chang, like ps1 FF era, then its fine

 

[aadiboy]

If it's going to be two parts (I don't think this is going to happen) the first part should end after Aerith's death. If it's 3-5 parts they should end the first part at the end of Midgar, which has a perfect stopping point.

In any case, after all is said and done, there has to be a compilation that connects the episodes after all of them get released. If you own the episodes separately, you should also be able to "connect" them to carry over equipment, levels, items, etc. Just because because the game is fragmented, doesn't mean the gameplay should be.

 

[eso76]

It is though.

Just not in a single game.

Yep, that's what I meant. Not in a single 60$ release, and I think it's completely justified

 

[Aeternus Malum]

I swear, Square is gonna be the end of me. My heart is aching right now. I mean, actual literal pain like knives. Only thing keeping me on the positive side is the small, tiny hopes of this shit being divided into three parts like the discs and not... seven or whatever.

hey man, just wanted to see how you were. I remembered this meltdown from years ago and hope you enjoyed the experience with Remake

 

[Paracelsus]

hey man, just wanted to see how you were. I remembered this meltdown from years ago and hope you enjoyed the experience with Remake

He had a meltdown over the mess in the final chapter in the other forum.