asdasdasdbb
Member
The OG has been remastered... twice I think. Plus that mobile GAAS Episodic game that didn't do very well. They wanted to do something new... except keep the same story at it's core.
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Final Fantasy VII Rebirth exposes the industry
- Thread starter The artful mincer
- Start date
The OG has been remastered... twice I think. Plus that mobile GAAS Episodic game that didn't do very well. They wanted to do something new... except keep the same story at it's core.
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
If you’re talking about the core story, maybe.
If you’re talking about stuff like the pacing, the quality of the writing/dialog, cutscene direction, and just the overall ability to enjoy the story without constantly cringing or falling asleep, then fuck no.
RagnarokIV
Member
To be fair the original has only been ported, not remastered. And the modern versions lack any good quality CRT shader, which means the graphics look terrible as a result (in particular the gorgeous backgrounds now look like fuzz).
Seyken
Member
Really? The pacing I can understand, and even that can change depending on if you do side content or not, but the rest? You're tripping.
This game has stellar characterization and cutscene direction, the hell are you talking about? It was one of the things they got right with Remake even.
tomato shrub
Member
man those cutscenes. I'm not sure if it's them trying to show off the tech, or trying to emphasize how serious it's meant to be, but why do they keep zooming into the character faces all the time. Half of these cutscenes are faces filling up the screen and if not, it's slowly zooming into faces while the same characters make over the top hand gestures next to their face.
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Minsc
Gold Member
I am only around chapter 5 or 6 of Rebirth (in Costa del Sol), but I feel a little crazy, my impression is that Remake actually hits harder in the story bits than Rebirth, and so far I think I like that one more.
I feel like Rebirth will be a great game in the end for me, but also perhaps a little disappointing. I just don't feel the urgency I was expecting with anything in this game, but I do enjoy the cast, and the gameplay. The side characters, they're a big let down for me. They range from damned annoying to looking like they were stuck in for diversity purposes to just being unimpressive.
Visually the game isn't that great either, but I do appreciate that there's an actual RPG to play here, unlike in FFXVI, and trying to get the different parts for the Gilgamesh summon by exploring around the open world sections so far is the highlight of the game. Gold Saucer should be a lot of fun too I hope.
I feel like Rebirth will be a great game in the end for me, but also perhaps a little disappointing. I just don't feel the urgency I was expecting with anything in this game, but I do enjoy the cast, and the gameplay. The side characters, they're a big let down for me. They range from damned annoying to looking like they were stuck in for diversity purposes to just being unimpressive.
Visually the game isn't that great either, but I do appreciate that there's an actual RPG to play here, unlike in FFXVI, and trying to get the different parts for the Gilgamesh summon by exploring around the open world sections so far is the highlight of the game. Gold Saucer should be a lot of fun too I hope.
Punished Miku
Member
I think the final battle in FFXVI actually is a parody. It's the only thing that makes sense.
Imru’ al-Qays
Member
Absolutely insane take. Just an example: go replay the original and pay attention to how they slowly drip feed you information about Sephiroth. Then compare that to Remake. We don't even need to get into the time ghosts.
Punished Miku
Member
Mythosssss, you're the key to me gaining the power to look like Ifrit / Phoenix, even though I look exactly like that already. With that power that I pretty much already have, I can finally make a new world to avoid the blight, even though I think I created the blight. I can create entire universes and the whole human race, but I can't specifically create someone that can hold the power I now already contain. Only you are so strong Mythos that you can destroy the last mothercrystal like I want but also not strong at all since it gives you ash hand immediately so what am I even talking about. Let's arm wrestle in space
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asdasdasdbb
Member
The version that is on Steam right now has slightly better model detail, and they made some other changes too.
The Whispers don't really change the core of the story. And Sephiroth had to be added early in the story because (IMO) they only agreed to do one game and wanted to leave the possibility they would only do one game.
Seyken
Member
You mean back when everyone and their mother didn't know who Sephiroth was? Well, that cat is well out of the bag now.
Many of the major spoiler parts and characters have been known for a while now even by people who haven't played the original. The fate of a certain character included.
PS1 era games had a much more limited way of telling a story compared to nowadays. There was no voice acting, no character expressions, etc. We pretty much filled a lot of it with our imagination.
I swear to God if they just did a facelift of the original the same people would be complaining that they "should've changed more, I already know what happens, the storytelling and gameplay feels dated, this won't reach new fans who like more modern games, Square is lazy" and so on. They can't win.
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Seyken
Member
No, it does not. The overall plot is following the same beats, just GREATLY expanded and with some twists and turns to keep people who played the original game guessing.
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Imru’ al-Qays
Member
Plenty of people haven't played the original FFVII, if Squenix had released a faithful remake they would have had considerable success. Instead they chose to cater to their repulsive, retarded otaku freak fanbase and bowdlerized the story, killing its ability to reach a new audience.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
I would say you're at the portion of the game where the party are in a period of intermission getting from A-B like in the original after leaving Junon, but the hard hitting moments do come from towards the end of the Gold Saucer onwards and I think hit harder than Remake. Until then it's fairly light hearted.
Jigsaah
Gold Member
I pushed through Remake. It has some of the same problems I experience with the original FFXIII. Corridor encounters and extremely linear. The combat is awesome though IMO.
Topher
Gold Member
Did you play Rebirth?
Jigsaah
Gold Member
Nah I don't have a PS5, been considering the Pro, but we'll see. I'm pretty sure Rebirth will come to PC which will likely solve most if not all the graphical issues so I will likely wait for that.
Seyken
Member
Yeah, that was one of the problems with Remake. And because of the linearity there weren't that many combat encounters, which is one of the things the game does best. Rebirth not only improves the combat by A LOT, but there's no shortage of it.
This game has soul, give it a try when you get a PS5 or when it releases on PC, it's worth it. I wouldn't go to bat like this if it was for Remake, but Rebirth deserves it IMO.
The artful mincer
Member
What didn't you like about Remake?
Rebirth is an iterate sequel e.g. the characters are the same, the combat system is similar it has borrowed assets and animations etc.
BUT if I was to list the additions to Rebirth this would be a Very Very Very Very long post. I don't think I know of a sequel that has added more game mechanics and content ever.
The main addition is the open world which I think naturally leads to new mechanics and it feeling different to Remake but there's so much more.
I dunno it's difficulty to say. If you dislike the combat and characters of Remake there the same in Rebirth but if you disliked the linearity of Remake you may like Rebirth.
Topher
Gold Member
It isn't that I didn't like Remake, but it just didn't grab me. Perhaps it was the linear aspect of the game. It is one of those games where I just stopped playing and went on to something else. Wasn't really a conscious "I don't like this game" kind of thing if that makes sense.
But what you are saying about Rebirth makes me want to go back and finish it. Open world, improved game mechanics, etc. That sounds more like my kind of game.
_Idea_of_Evil_
Member
I share this sentiment, however, I'll likely end up getting each part individually along the way as Rebirth is also probably going to have a deep sale like they did with Remake.
I got Remake: Intergrade for $15 last Black Friday. If Rebirth gets a similar sale, I'll likely jump on that too. Will do the same with part 3.
Looking forward to playing it in its entirety in 2030.
The artful mincer
Member
This is probably the hottest of takes but a part of me feels that newcomers should start with Rebirth.
You gonna be a bit clueless on the story but I feel you could still really enjoy the game. I reckon you would still have a rough of idea of the story and you can still enjoy characters.
If you like Open Worlds in particular it seems mad to me to play a 30 to 40 hour linear game just to be clued in on the story.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
In the first act, yes. But it turns into another FFVII R style slog-fest in the second half. If you spend time doing the 'world activities', you'll get burned out even faster cause it's just the same copy pasted activities in 8, 9 different regions.
The one thing it definitely does better than VII R is that it's not always linear corridors all the time.
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Jigsaah
Gold Member
Same for me. I bought it on PC when Intergrade was announced and picked it up and put it back down several times before I actually went through and finished it. By time it was over I didn't even feel like doing the Yuffie stuff. I was over it by then. Hopefully this one improves on it like so many are saying.
Astray
Member
I don't understand why there's a weird insistence that taking timed exclusivity is the problem in itself, when the truth is far from that.
The biggest problem with Square is its huge reliance on being the best at bringing spectacle-heavy story-telling to JRPG subgenre (especially true after they divested the western studios), which is a genre that is by definition very long (40 hours is considered short-ish).
Right now the console/PC customers are almost all millenials, who are now cash-rich, but time-poor, this customer base simply cannot find the time to play all the JRPGs that Square launches, and no one just buys games for their backlog, hence under-performance.
Another problem is that Final Fantasy has been far too experimental even in its heyday, almost nothing has been built on, and the fanbase is divided between art styles, story tonalities and battle systems. This is disasterous when your big games cost so much because now you don't have a guaranteed number of day 1 sales. Also note that their home market has largely been dominated by the Nintendo Switch, the weakest dedicated gaming device short of emulator handhelds, this now means that Square can't really extend games like FF7R 1/2 to their home market properly.. If they could then they would have refused the Sony money already.
You look at the success stories in the JRPG subgenre right now (Sega/Atlus and some smaller devs like Falcom and Gust etc), and they all tend to create their games with as much re-usage of assets as possible, while continually iterating on mechanics to keep the fanbase as united and engaged as possible.
If they want to remain with the high-fidelity approach, then Square needs to get equipped properly to be able to deliver the games that have wide appeal in the markets where high-performance consoles thrive (basically focus on the western market entirely like From Software/Capcom are doing), either that or drop the high-def graphics and start pumping out dual releases for Switch/PS to win the JPN market again.
The biggest problem with Square is its huge reliance on being the best at bringing spectacle-heavy story-telling to JRPG subgenre (especially true after they divested the western studios), which is a genre that is by definition very long (40 hours is considered short-ish).
Right now the console/PC customers are almost all millenials, who are now cash-rich, but time-poor, this customer base simply cannot find the time to play all the JRPGs that Square launches, and no one just buys games for their backlog, hence under-performance.
Another problem is that Final Fantasy has been far too experimental even in its heyday, almost nothing has been built on, and the fanbase is divided between art styles, story tonalities and battle systems. This is disasterous when your big games cost so much because now you don't have a guaranteed number of day 1 sales. Also note that their home market has largely been dominated by the Nintendo Switch, the weakest dedicated gaming device short of emulator handhelds, this now means that Square can't really extend games like FF7R 1/2 to their home market properly.. If they could then they would have refused the Sony money already.
You look at the success stories in the JRPG subgenre right now (Sega/Atlus and some smaller devs like Falcom and Gust etc), and they all tend to create their games with as much re-usage of assets as possible, while continually iterating on mechanics to keep the fanbase as united and engaged as possible.
If they want to remain with the high-fidelity approach, then Square needs to get equipped properly to be able to deliver the games that have wide appeal in the markets where high-performance consoles thrive (basically focus on the western market entirely like From Software/Capcom are doing), either that or drop the high-def graphics and start pumping out dual releases for Switch/PS to win the JPN market again.
asdasdasdbb
Member
Switch 2 should be powerful enough to make FF7R possible. Albeit not at 60 fps.
Lokaum D+
Member
I prefer Remake over Rebirth any day of the weak.
Imo at the end of the day Rebirth just waste players time too much, Remake at least is more "self centered".
bender
What time is it?
I stopped in Chapter 9 of Remake, bought Rebirth, decided to go back to Remake but start over because it had been so long, got an hour in and gave up. I still haven't even booted Rebirth up.
Lokaum D+
Member
If by "just GREATLY expanded and with some twists and turns to keep people who played the original game guessing" u mean "lets grab EVERY key point in the OG story and make It worst by creating a multiverse that no one asked for, on top of that, make EVERY impactfull scene or plot of the OG game dull, so we can subverge everyone expectations with awful twists and fail at delivering the same range of feelings/emotions that we did with OG FF7" u are right, Rebirth does not stray away from the OG game.
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Seyken
Member
I feel like the only truly impactful scene that has been subverted is at the end, and it's by design.
What they are potentially setting up for part 3 could be epic and they are taking full advantage of who the protagonist is and the problem that he is going through. The scenes you're probably thinking about will be there, and not on this one. I won't go further than this because it would be spoiler territory and this is not a spoiler thread. I feel like you should reserve judgement if they truly screwed it up or not in the next game, it's where this whole thing better pay off. If it doesn't, I will be the first in line to tell them that they fucked it up.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Yes an no. Combat feels better, but the gameplay loop of exploring each area got old very fast. I took a break from the game as I just arrived at the Golden Saucer, and I just haven’t felt like going back.
Revolutionary
Member
It's nice to be optimistic, but it's very unlikely that they will stick the landing in a satisfying way. They've already split the FF7 fanbase by introducing the multiverse into this classic story - it's one of the many reasons why Rebirth sold less than Remake.
Audiences are mostly sick of multiverse bullshit in 2024 but Nomura and Co. conceived this crap at least a decade ago.
Nomura in 2015:
That said, I suppose anything is possible but considering Nomura's pedigree, I don't think it will end well. I'll still be there to check it out (love the combat) but not looking forward to seeing what else they change and/or botch.
Astray
Member
True, but unless either Nintendo starts competing in graphics again, or Sony/Xbox make actual in-roads in Japan, you cannot strategize around being high-fidelity and think you can win the Japanese market at the same time.
Something has to give here.
vaibhavpisal
Member
If Square Enix wants to be high fidelity, it better exceed everything on market. FF 16 and Rebirth are good looking games but better graphics exist.
Else it should just accept Switch. Should’ve done long time ago.
Astray
Member
What games had better graphics than Rebirth? Watched my bro-in-law play it, and that game was astoundingly good-looking.
FF16 was good looking but the base PS5 is just short of keeping it in a good framerate/resolution combo imo.
I do agree with you that they really need to think of Switch 2 as the base config going forward.
vaibhavpisal
Member
Haven’t played it but from videos, something like Cyberpunk or Horizon FW looks more impressive, just graphically.
It either needs to create hype with its reveal, something old FF games used to do easily cause of visuals.
Else they should adapt all popular platforms.