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[MagiusNecros]

I just love that now FFXVI is considered a success.

What a time to be alive.

It is amusing to me. It's still a failure as a mainline FF game as far as I am concerned. But that has to do with it's identity more then sales. Sales put it only doing as much as Remake. Rebirth doing less then the bad FF game does say something. And it shouldn't be ignored.

But I think if we really want to compare sales they should give us the full sales data including phys and digital sales for a more accurate picture. Plus if consumers know a PC version is inevitable some consumers will just wait for the better version.

 

[FoxMcChief]

They have my money when it comes to Steam. I won't accept 30 fps.

It really does look and play very well in Quality mode.

 

[Spirit Icana]

Japanese players are begging for Final Fantasy 16 on Steam after the PS5 price hike

Sony may be making PC gamers out of Final Fantasy fans

www.gamesradar.com

From 2022. Japan begging for a Steam release for FFXVI. I believe a number of them were asking SE for a PS4 release too, after the Sony double whammy of barely releasing any PS5 product in Japan, and then the price hike which hit their region (USA was spared a price hike, and received far more product during the drought).

Also worth noting from this list is Elden Ring, which was not a PS5 exclusive. It was also released on PS4 and sold 188,490 copies.

Elden Ring’s Japan Launch Sits at Almost 280,000 Sales on PlayStation

Elden Ring continues to live up to the hype!

www.dualshockers.com

Resident Evil 4 Remake was also on PS4 and sold an additional 85,371 on PS4 on top of that 89k for PS5. Released same year as FF16, a few months earlier. And there was also the Steam release for RE4R.

Armored Core VI did sell best on PS5 at 115k (above), but also brought in 47k more from PS4, and the game seemingly did great on Steam as well. Kadokawa last reported that Armored Core 6 sold over 700k in Japan (which suggests a big digital boost between Steam and Playstation platforms, as the physical sales don't add up).

Like A Dragon sold another 77K on PS4, plus the 102k from PS5.

Of those games, only Elden Ring would've beaten out FF7 Rebirth when including PS4, but there is a question of Steam, and digital sales on both Playstation platforms as well. BTW, Elden Ring sold 1 million in Japan across all platforms.

PressRelease | FromSoftware, Inc.

You can view all information about FromSoftware including our games, membership website and much more.

www.fromsoftware.jp

Massive digital presence, largely from Steam, for Elden Ring.

And here is some data for Persona 3 Reload, Yakuza, and Granblu Fantasies cross gen releases that came out earlier THIS YEAR:

Famitsu Sales: 1/29/24 – 2/4/24 [Update]

Famitsu has published its estimated physical game software data for Japan for the week of January 29, 2024 to February 4, 2024.

www.gematsu.com

1. [PS5] Persona 3 Reload (ATLUS, 02/02/24) – 76,368 (New)
2. [PS5] Granblue Fantasy: Relink (Cygames, 02/01/24) – 48,765 (New)
3. [PS4] Persona 3 Reload (ATLUS, 02/02/24) – 40,024 (New)
4. [NSW] Jujutsu Kaisen: Cursed Clash (Bandai Namco, 02/01/24) – 25,242 (New)
5. [PS4] Granblue Fantasy: Relink (Cygames, 02/01/24) – 22,083 (New)
6. [NSW] Shiren the Wanderer: The Mystery Dungeon of Serpentcoil Island (Spike Chunsoft, 01/25/24) – 18,103 (103,527)
7. [PS4] Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth (SEGA, 01/26/24) – 16,503 (93,637)
8. [PS5] Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth (SEGA, 01/26/24) – 15,388 (118,328

PS5 has clearly overcome PS4, but the last gen console has still got a whole lotta life going for it, from what it looks like. Like a Dragon PS4 edged out the PS5 version in its second week. Over 200k total between both platforms.

Next week, we should be getting a breakdown for Unicorn Overlord. It's a niche game, but I'm curious what the breakdown between PS5, Switch, AND PS4 will be. Xbox version is a non player.

Based on the data, I think a case can be made that the PS5 exclusivity is holding Final Fantasy back from reaching its full sales potential. I think there is some Japanese resistance to the hardware as well. I don't think Playstation digital figures will be close to 50/50. Maybe an extra 50k, still behind 16 physical sales. We'll see how Rebirth fares in the end. It's a disappointing debut for a powerful brand that used to sell machines. It'll likely recoup over time on several different platforms and re-releases. Right now, it appears North America will have to save Rebirth's debut numbers.

 

[mckmas8808]

Is not about hate. Rebirth is supposed to be the big game of 2024 for the PS5, and i pretty sure that Square or Sony (Or the fans of the franchise) didn’t expect lower sales than FFXVI.

Why are you so sure it's selling worse than FFXVI?

 

[LordOcidax]

Why are you so sure it's selling worse than FFXVI?

In the markets we have numbers is selling on par or worse.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

In the markets we have numbers is selling on par or worse.

We don’t have the majority of markets reporting

 

[VideoGameEnjoyer]

After finally spending a weekend with Rebirth I was ready to come talk about how crazy it was that Rebrith and 16 were made concurrently and yet one gets it so right, and one so wrong. Who could legitimately want 16 more than Rebirth for their FF experience?

I guess it is much more split than I anticipated... I'm so sorry I put a sale on the 16 side. Please Square Enix, give me a survey, so I can tell you how much I prefer a game like Rebirth.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

It is amusing to me. It's still a failure as a mainline FF game as far as I am concerned. But that has to do with it's identity more then sales. Sales put it only doing as much as Remake. Rebirth doing less then the bad FF game does say something. And it shouldn't be ignored.

But I think if we really want to compare sales they should give us the full sales data including phys and digital sales for a more accurate picture. Plus if consumers know a PC version is inevitable some consumers will just wait for the better version.

It has an 87 metacritic and sold well

It was a success, no matter your personal thoughts

 

[mayham2199]

After finally spending a weekend with Rebirth I was ready to come talk about how crazy it was that Rebrith and 16 were made concurrently and yet one gets it so right, and one so wrong. Who could legitimately want 16 more than Rebirth for their FF experience?

I guess it is much more split than I anticipated... I'm so sorry I put a sale on the 16 side. Please Square Enix, give me a survey, so I can tell you how much I prefer a game like Rebirth.

I prefer Rebirth but I still really loved FF16. The Side quest are just horrible in 16.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

After finally spending a weekend with Rebirth I was ready to come talk about how crazy it was that Rebrith and 16 were made concurrently and yet one gets it so right, and one so wrong. Who could legitimately want 16 more than Rebirth for their FF experience?

I guess it is much more split than I anticipated... I'm so sorry I put a sale on the 16 side. Please Square Enix, give me a survey, so I can tell you how much I prefer a game like Rebirth.

I enjoyed both, for different reasons. FF7R is an improvement overall, but FF16 is still great for what it is.

 

[VideoGameEnjoyer]

I enjoyed both, for different reasons. FF7R is an improvement overall, but FF16 is still great for what it is.

I gave up trying to force myself to the good parts through all of the slog. But I am glad that people enjoyed it.

Depth of combat alone makes Rebirth so much more interesting to me.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I gave up trying to force myself to the good parts through all of the slog. But I am glad that people enjoyed it.

Depth of combat alone makes Rebirth so much more interesting to me.

Combat depth is an improvement, as are the open world and side quests (and mini games)

But as an action game, FF16 had some really fun and epic boss fights, the soundtrack was a delight, and the mature theme and voice acting was a nice contrast to the more light hearted and cartoony ff7r

 

[The artful mincer]

They have my money when it comes to Steam. I won't accept 30 fps.

Or 60fps apparently

 

[mckmas8808]

In the markets we have numbers is selling on par or worse.

Did those markets give us both physical and digital sales yet?

 

[Ozriel]

Ah yes when the Switch 2 arrives, there'll be around 70m + PS5 around but Japanese devs will immediately focus on the Switch 2. You're so full of shit.

There certainly won’t be 70 million PS5s in Japan, software sales ratios are much higher on Switch than any other platform in Japan and third party Japanese games will certainly have to be developed with the Switch 2 specs in mind.

You’re so full of hot air

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Dude, come on. At first and second glance, it looks like standard medieval fantasy. Nice change in visual identity for FF, but clearly not mass appeal.

Explain Skyrim

 

[Madflavor]

One thing we should note is that not only did Rebirth cost less to make than Remake, there's also the $10 markup to consider from back in 2020 when new AAA were still $60. So copies sold is definitely down, but in terms of revenue, this definitely helps a lot.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Face it, was a silly move to not have it on PS4 as well. Huge mistake.

 

[Madflavor]

Face it, was a silly move to not have it on PS4 as well. Huge mistake.

Maybe but I don't know how well the game would've ran on PS4. Performance and Visually it's not one of the greats on the PS5.

 

[The artful mincer]

One thing we should note is that not only did Rebirth cost less to make than Remake, there's also the $10 markup to consider from back in 2020 when new AAA were still $60. So copies sold is definitely down, but in terms of revenue, this definitely helps a lot.

Unit sales actually don't mean a lot. We saw in the Insomniac leak that Ghost of Tsushima and Horizon Zero Dawn had similar revenue despite Horizon zero having sold more than twice as many units.

A Big advantage FF has always had is being able to sell a minium of 3 to 5 million units at full price.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Face it, was a silly move to not have it on PS4 as well. Huge mistake.

Not supporting PS4 saved them a lot of dev time. It should be plausible to do on Switch 2 since that should have an SSD or faster SD cards.

 

[The artful mincer]

Face it, was a silly move to not have it on PS4 as well. Huge mistake.

Short term maybe. Long term we will see

We have no idea how it would have been comprised if released on PS4 it would have at the very least increased dev time and costs.

 

[ByWatterson]

Final Fantasy fans go through the COD Cycle of Loathing (TM) in a time compressor.

 

[VideoGameEnjoyer]

Face it, was a silly move to not have it on PS4 as well. Huge mistake.

It would be a complete disaster on that ancient hardware.

Move on

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

lolno, they could have made it run fine on PS4, just downgrade the rez and cut out some detail. The first game was on PS4 so this sequel should have been as well.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

We really need to stop using only physical data to confirm or dismiss a game's success, specially when we compare with a predecessor that came out almost 4 years ago.

I remember how everyone was shocked at Ghost of Tsushima selling over 1M in Japan alone because Famitsu numbers were at less than 400k or something, lmao. And this is Japan. A country where physical sales are usually bigger. UK it's even a bigger market for digital sales when compared to physical.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Face it, was a silly move to not have it on PS4 as well. Huge mistake.

Nope, it would have been a disaster on PS4 I think, probably 720 and a dodgy 30fps. They're pushing a lot more. Much larger and detailed environments, the entire party with high poly models always on the screen etc....

I think a PC release and then Switch 2 would be a good move. Sounds like the Switch 2 will be about PS4-PS4 Pro power with the addition of DLSS and so I think they could get a half decent 30fps version running on it.

 

[MikeM]

Wonder how many people like me that have a PS5 are holding out for PC.

 

[MagiusNecros]

metacritic

Popularity meters don't interest me. Lightning Returns is more RPG then XVI.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Popularity meters don't interest me. Lightning Returns is more RPG then XVI.

Doesn’t make it a bad game in the eyes of most people

 

[Evil Calvin]

I'm not even going to bother. They sold exclusively on Nintendo when Nintendo was on top, and Sony when Sony was on top.

It'll be exclusive until the Switch 2 launches.

Switch 2 is supposed to be as powerful as a PS4 Pro....so no, it won't be coming to that

 

[MagiusNecros]

Doesn’t make it a bad game in the eyes of most people

It's not a bad game. It's a bad Final Fantasy game.

Much like Metroid Other M isn't a bad game but it's a bad Metroid game.

 

[Ozriel]

Switch 2 is supposed to be as powerful as a PS4 Pro....so no, it won't be coming to that

Joke post?
If the Switch 2 is reasonably more powerful than a base PS4, it’s going to get ports of the vast majority of current gen third party games. Even if it has to run at 720p.

Helldivers 2 is current gen exclusive…and there are people happily playing on Steamdeck at 30fps

I don’t buy for a second that the Switch 2 could have GPU capabilities as powerful as the PS4 Pro

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Japanese players are begging for Final Fantasy 16 on Steam after the PS5 price hike

Sony may be making PC gamers out of Final Fantasy fans

www.gamesradar.com

From 2022. Japan begging for a Steam release for FFXVI. I believe a number of them were asking SE for a PS4 release too, after the Sony double whammy of barely releasing any PS5 product in Japan, and then the price hike which hit their region (USA was spared a price hike, and received far more product during the drought).

Also worth noting from this list is Elden Ring, which was not a PS5 exclusive. It was also released on PS4 and sold 188,490 copies.

Elden Ring’s Japan Launch Sits at Almost 280,000 Sales on PlayStation

Elden Ring continues to live up to the hype!

www.dualshockers.com

Resident Evil 4 Remake was also on PS4 and sold an additional 85,371 on PS4 on top of that 89k for PS5. Released same year as FF16, a few months earlier. And there was also the Steam release for RE4R.

Armored Core VI did sell best on PS5 at 115k (above), but also brought in 47k more from PS4, and the game seemingly did great on Steam as well. Kadokawa last reported that Armored Core 6 sold over 700k in Japan (which suggests a big digital boost between Steam and Playstation platforms, as the physical sales don't add up).

Like A Dragon sold another 77K on PS4, plus the 102k from PS5.

Of those games, only Elden Ring would've beaten out FF7 Rebirth when including PS4, but there is a question of Steam, and digital sales on both Playstation platforms as well. BTW, Elden Ring sold 1 million in Japan across all platforms.

PressRelease | FromSoftware, Inc.

You can view all information about FromSoftware including our games, membership website and much more.

www.fromsoftware.jp

Massive digital presence, largely from Steam, for Elden Ring.

And here is some data for Persona 3 Reload, Yakuza, and Granblu Fantasies cross gen releases that came out earlier THIS YEAR:

Famitsu Sales: 1/29/24 – 2/4/24 [Update]

Famitsu has published its estimated physical game software data for Japan for the week of January 29, 2024 to February 4, 2024.

www.gematsu.com

1. [PS5] Persona 3 Reload (ATLUS, 02/02/24) – 76,368 (New)
2. [PS5] Granblue Fantasy: Relink (Cygames, 02/01/24) – 48,765 (New)
3. [PS4] Persona 3 Reload (ATLUS, 02/02/24) – 40,024 (New)
4. [NSW] Jujutsu Kaisen: Cursed Clash (Bandai Namco, 02/01/24) – 25,242 (New)
5. [PS4] Granblue Fantasy: Relink (Cygames, 02/01/24) – 22,083 (New)
6. [NSW] Shiren the Wanderer: The Mystery Dungeon of Serpentcoil Island (Spike Chunsoft, 01/25/24) – 18,103 (103,527)
7. [PS4] Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth (SEGA, 01/26/24) – 16,503 (93,637)
8. [PS5] Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth (SEGA, 01/26/24) – 15,388 (118,328

PS5 has clearly overcome PS4, but the last gen console has still got a whole lotta life going for it, from what it looks like. Like a Dragon PS4 edged out the PS5 version in its second week. Over 200k total between both platforms.

Next week, we should be getting a breakdown for Unicorn Overlord. It's a niche game, but I'm curious what the breakdown between PS5, Switch, AND PS4 will be. Xbox version is a non player.

Based on the data, I think a case can be made that the PS5 exclusivity is holding Final Fantasy back from reaching its full sales potential. I think there is some Japanese resistance to the hardware as well. I don't think Playstation digital figures will be close to 50/50. Maybe an extra 50k, still behind 16 physical sales. We'll see how Rebirth fares in the end. It's a disappointing debut for a powerful brand that used to sell machines. It'll likely recoup over time on several different platforms and re-releases. Right now, it appears North America will have to save Rebirth's debut numbers.

I don't think exclusivity is the problem, even for markets like Japan. Rebirth sounds like an excellent game, but it might also be paying the price for divisive elements of prior FF games finally catching up with the IP. People who might've felt burned one way or another from XV, Remake and XVI could be waiting a while to pick up Rebirth, hoping WOM pushes them into a purchase.

Something else I saw someone mention is that the naming could be throwing people off. Some might not think that Rebirth is Part 2 of a trilogy remake series. A sub-title mentioning "Part 2" could've probably helped here. The only thing that might've immediately helped boost Rebirth's performance in Japan is a PS4 version, because I don't think console exclusivity is the issue for any performance here, either in Japan or other markets where the (physical) results look weaker than expected.

It might also help though if S-E made some stylistic and innovative changes to the core game design of future mainline FF titles. Maybe combining the fantasy & steampunk elements with a modern society-based world, adding dating sim elements, or simulation-like elements (think ActRaiser or the early Suikoden games with the military bases). Also having accompanying anime & manga adaptations would help with further reach.

I'm not necessarily saying the games shouldn't be multiplatform, but the folks immediately jumping to that as the solution are not putting a lot of thought into what they are saying whatsoever, IMHO.

Joke post?
If the Switch 2 is reasonably more powerful than a base PS4, it’s going to get ports of the vast majority of current gen third party games. Even if it has to run at 720p.

Helldivers 2 is current gen exclusive…and there are people happily playing on Steamdeck at 30fps

I don’t buy for a second that the Switch 2 could have GPU capabilities as powerful as the PS4 Pro

I do think Remake & Rebirth will get Switch 2 ports next year, maybe coinciding with its launch if it's say March 2025. But Rebirth will probably only run acceptably (i.e around Series S equivalent) when in Docked mode.

It might be "playable" undocked but that could be 20 FPS with Vaseline N64 textures all over the place or bad LOD pop-in for all we know. Rebirth was technically designed for more capable baseline hardware than Remake, after all.

Wonder how many people like me that have a PS5 are holding out for PC.

That's becoming more and more a genuine question at this point. I mean the adverts listed a 3-month timed exclusivity period, then the media went crazy reporting it. Even if the game takes longer to get a PC port, that set the expectations for people to assume when a port is coming, so even for those who have a PC & PS5, a lot of them are probably prioritizing other games ATM like Helldivers 2, or the upcoming Rise of the Ronin & Stellar Blade, and waiting for a slower month in Summer to get Rebirth if they feel the port is coming that soon.

The expectation of "soon enough" PC ports from dual PS/PC owners could be causing initial PS releases of exclusives to underperform as more people decide they'd rather wait for the assumed-better PC port than 'double dip'. And while it's a popular IP, Final Fantasy prob doesn't have the draw to make most people double-dip. I think only IP like GTA have that level of pull hence why the PC ports later cause many to buy it on console and then buy it again on PC.

Although, I think games like Final Fantasy could generate better double-dips if they didn't blatantly advertise a PC port with fine print in the PlayStation ads before the PS versions even launch. That's such a stupid thing to do, doesn't matter who's greenlighting it.

It's like Jersey Mike's going "Hey! We've got an awesome new sub flavor exclusively at our shops coming out in three weeks, BUT we're also giving Subway the same recipe so they can improve it, and that'll be available two weeks after we release ours!", then expecting a massive surge in business for their shop. No, most will just wait for the Subway version.

That's basically what Sony/Square-Enix are doing with these new Final Fantasy games, and Sony more indirectly, increasingly doing with the cadence they're setting for 1P ports to Steam.

 

[Lethal01]

That's becoming more and more a genuine question at this point. I mean the adverts listed a 3-month timed exclusivity period, then the media went crazy reporting it. Even if the game takes longer to get a PC port, that set the expectations for people to assume when a port is coming, so even for those who have a PC & PS5, a lot of them are probably prioritizing other games ATM like Helldivers 2, or the upcoming Rise of the Ronin & Stellar Blade, and waiting for a slower month in Summer to get Rebirth if they feel the port is coming that soon.

A genuine question, and I suspect the answer is that the people actually waiting represent a tiny fraction of sales.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

FFVIIR is such an abomination of a series. All I wanted was a nice modern graphics update for FFVII, not this Kingdom Hearts bowdlerization of the plot.

The brand was tarnished for decades.

The good news is we’re getting great FF games again with FF16 and FF7R.

the series is on an upward trajectory again. FF15 did a lot of brand damage

Neither FFXVI nor FFVIIR are "great" games. Both have solid combat but other than that they're middling at best. XVI has a spectacular first act but falls flat for the rest of the story, and VIIR takes one of the best narratives in the medium and just eviscerates it.

 

[Madflavor]

FFVIIR is such an abomination of a series. All I wanted was a nice modern graphics update for FFVII, not this Kingdom Hearts bowdlerization of the plot.



Neither FFXVI nor FFVIIR are "great" games. Both have solid combat but other than that they're middling at best. XVI has a spectacular first act but falls flat for the rest of the story, and VIIR takes one of the best narratives in the medium and just eviscerates it.

Rebirth is a fine ass game. The best Final Fantasy in decades.

 

[IAmRei]

FFVIIR is such an abomination of a series. All I wanted was a nice modern graphics update for FFVII, not this Kingdom Hearts bowdlerization of the plot.

I think its also what people see in japan as well? They may likes 7, but 7R forward? They might think the same with you

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

They are

Steam alone is multiple times bigger than PS5. PS5 is never gonna beat Steam this gen in consumers, this is a first in history for playstation.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

So...like right now?

Steam is the highest user base currently and that won't be changing this gen for PS5 per Sony's own expected PS5 lifetime sales. It's 2024 not 2004.

 

[Valonquar]

I mean... it's a sequel to an incomplete narrative, and most of the fans that wanted it prob got it at release...

 

[bender]

I'll never understand how wrestling still has fans, much less it's yearly game hitting number 1?!

Humans are really, really, really fucking dumb.

 

[ByWatterson]

Not sure if anyone has posted this, but after one day, it was the second-most downloaded game on PS5 for the month of February in the USA and EU (behind only the gangbusters Helldivers).

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Neither FFXVI nor FFVIIR are "great" games.

That’s fine. You have an outlier opinion way outside of consensus

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

Rebirth is a fine ass game. The best Final Fantasy in decades.

"The best Final Fantasy in decades" doesn't mean much since the last good FF was released in 2006. I gave Squenix the benefit of the doubt with Remake but I'm no longer interested in whatever trash fanfic Nomura comes up with.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Steam alone is multiple times bigger than PS5.

Not on hardware that is equivalent.

 

[Lethal01]

I think its also what people see in japan as well? They may likes 7, but 7R forward? They might think the same with you

In Japan, it's the second biggest PS5 launch ever.
Ant the only game it loses against is another Final Fantasy games, so people's complaint don't seem to resonate with its reception there at all.

 

[Danjin44]

If FFVII Rebirth is considered bad FF game then no matter what Square does then you guys will never be happy.

I’m personally having fucking blast with Rebirth.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Doesn't this happen a lot? lol

Yes, but I still see lots of posts that claim third party doesn't sell on Switch for some reason.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

Not on hardware that is equivalent.

There was talk not long ago that Nvidia had sold more RTX cards than there were PS5s. On top of this you don't need equivalent hardware to play PS5 games. My buddy has an 8 year old GTX 1080 that plays all the latest games very well and that's slower than the PS5 GPU.

What you don't understand is that PC isn't console, there is no hard cutoff. If a game is made for PS5 it can run on much weaker PCs because the settings can scale lower. I mean the 10 year old GTX 980 still runs many of the latest games and that makes total sense because it's faster than a 1060 which also runs the latest games, that's a card that launched months after the PS4 first launched and it's playing full blown PS5 games the PS4 can't dream of running.