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[SF Kosmo]

Pacing in the first third of the game is great, if you ignore side quest (which have almost completely worthless rewards at that point).

But after that, the game really loses its momentum. Not just because of the filler nonsense between bosses/setpieces, but because the story gives up and turns into predictable and formulaic JRPG nonsense.

All the continent spanning drama and complex interplay of competing interests turns into a checklist of bad mans to kill one by one as the cast gradually winnows and the story is stripped down to shallow one dimensional humanity versus celestial evil bullshit.

The demo was a brilliant bit of marketing and pulled me in, but the game itself doesn't deliver on all that early promise.

 

[Dibils2k]

i believe this is the reason i seemingly take big breaks between playing, i still havent finished it

there are just incredible main missions which keep me coming back but between them there can be long stretches of filler which bore me to death, i have kinda started to skip alot of dialogue thats not main cutscene

 

[Celcius]

In addition to some Leviathan the Lost DLC, we need some DLC where we go deep into some Fallen ruins with a superboss at the end. A proper post-game dungeon.

 

[LakeOf9]

There’s not even a debate though, it’s a bashing thread . And I’m not saying you are the only one…you sure as hell as the one person I’ve heard put in 80+ hours and saying that there are many flaws though. I’m arguing that a shit ton of people enjoy the game with flaws and they aren’t taking to Gaf to complain about them. That’s all I started the conversation with.

I have 50+ hours in the game, and I spent the first 15 praising it (go look at my posts about it in the OT, I was defending it from the criticism it was getting). I’m not “not playing the game and bashing it” I am playing the game and then bashing it because the more I play it the worse it gets.

 

[Edellus]

I disagree completely. I find the pacing is great overall.

The sidequests, albeit simple (in animation, VA, and interaction), add a lot of weight to characters and the world. After a while I see the consequences of those sidequests somewhere in the world. Some of them have neat combat related rewards (permanent buffs and ABs). And they have sequels too. I really like them even just for those things.

When the pacing slows down, I slow down too with my approach to enjoying the game. I just chill, listen to people, help them and hunt marks whenever there's a new one.

I'm taking my time with this game and enjoying every bit of it.

 

[Thaedolus]

Pacing in the first third of the game is great, if you ignore side quest (which have almost completely worthless rewards at that point).

But after that, the game really loses its momentum. Not just because of the filler nonsense between bosses/setpieces, but because the story gives up and turns into predictable and formulaic JRPG nonsense.

All the continent spanning drama and complex interplay of competing interests turns into a checklist of bad mans to kill one by one as the cast gradually winnows and the story is stripped down to shallow one dimensional humanity versus celestial evil bullshit.

The demo was a brilliant bit of marketing and pulled me in, but the game itself doesn't deliver on all that early promise.

Yeah pretty much this. Demo hooked me good, made me think this will be a different, grown up story…then it has seemingly devolved back into mundane tropes.

I do like most of the characters though, and want to finish it. I’m glad they’ve moved beyond the main protagonists being an unlikable emo edgelord type. But man, the hours of stilted D tier cutscenes and fetch quests are pretty brutal to endure just to get to a big spectacle boss fight

 

[Interfectum]

Yeah pretty much this. Demo hooked me good, made me think this will be a different, grown up story…then it has seemingly devolved back into mundane tropes.

I do like most of the characters though, and want to finish it. I’m glad they’ve moved beyond the main protagonists being an unlikable emo edgelord type. But man, the hours of stilted D tier cutscenes and fetch quests are pretty brutal to endure just to get to a big spectacle boss fight

It's no exaggeration to say that this game seems to disregard your time completely. The characters engage in seemingly endless dialogues, you can't collect necessary materials before a quest begins, and it lacks the functionality to auto-complete quests on-the-go, forcing you to return to your base instead. The amount of unnecessary content or 'padding' in this game is simply excessive.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

Yeah, I must admit that the demo had me going and once I got to the full game it was up and down and not really consistent in its pacing. I’m over half way through but don’t really have much drive to go back to it.

It’s a shame too because the high points of the story are really really good in my opinion (one boss fight in particular just about half way through had me pumped!), but there’s so much down time that it feels like a bit of a slog to get through.

 

[OGM_Madness]

I know the pacing of FFXVI is not great, but can we take a moment to appreciate the 4 seconds loading times? Now, imagine this game with 1 minute loading times...

 

[Heaven Angel]

So you're saying the likes of kotor, divinity os and ff7 are bad games? Go back to forespoken pls.

Have I stated it's a bad game? I guess you have some real issue with fast paced games. Can't cope up well can you

 

[SkylineRKR]

This game actually looks quite a bit like Stranger of Paradise. But then the simplified version of it, and audio-visually FFXVI is far superior ofcourse. But the way its structured is very similar.

I haven't played SoP beyond all the demos. I should get the game some day. I liked what I played of it despite the game looking like shit.

 

[hyperbertha]

Have I stated it's a bad game? I guess you have some real issue with fast paced games. Can't cope up well can you

This game is the slowest paced game ever made since life of black tiger. Keep trying.

 

[FoxMcChief]

I honestly think the new god of war games are better at being RPGs than ff16, and they are better at doing down time than ff16

I 100% agree. I think both of the newest GoW games are waaaaaaay better than FF16. Better combat, better story (so far), better music, better pacing and better exploration, just better. I can see why some turned away from Ragnarok, but I found the end product to still be amazing. I think it’s the best exclusive on the the PS5.

 

[Thaedolus]

I know the pacing of FFXVI is not great, but can we take a moment to appreciate the 4 seconds loading times? Now, imagine this game with 1 minute loading times...

It’s true, if I had to wait a full minute to fast travel to pick some flowers or see what’s got the old gaffer’s jimmies rustled, I’d have drop kicked it out the front door a while ago. They side quests are boring and dumb but at least they’re short

 

[Heaven Angel]

This game is the slowest paced game ever made since life of black tiger. Keep trying.

You even failed with this one, better luck next time.

 

[Madflavor]

Yeah, I must admit that the demo had me going and once I got to the full game it was up and down and not really consistent in its pacing. I’m over half way through but don’t really have much drive to go back to it.

It’s a shame too because the high points of the story are really really good in my opinion (one boss fight in particular just about half way through had me pumped!), but there’s so much down time that it feels like a bit of a slog to get through.

Yup agreed. As critical as I've been with the game's pacing lately, I will dig my heels in and say when FFXVI is good, it's really fucking good. Peak Final Fantasy. There are story beats in this game that rank very highly for me in the franchise.

 

[Interfectum]

It’s true, if I had to wait a full minute to fast travel to pick some flowers or see what’s got the old gaffer’s jimmies rustled, I’d have drop kicked it out the front door a while ago. They side quests are boring and dumb but at least they’re short

Even with the quick load times... my exact thoughts when I'm done with a main story beat and a bunch of green shit appears:

 

[tmlDan]

Pacing in the first third of the game is great, if you ignore side quest (which have almost completely worthless rewards at that point).

But after that, the game really loses its momentum. Not just because of the filler nonsense between bosses/setpieces, but because the story gives up and turns into predictable and formulaic JRPG nonsense.

All the continent spanning drama and complex interplay of competing interests turns into a checklist of bad mans to kill one by one as the cast gradually winnows and the story is stripped down to shallow one dimensional humanity versus celestial evil bullshit.

The demo was a brilliant bit of marketing and pulled me in, but the game itself doesn't deliver on all that early promise.

Why is the ending combating with a celestial being bullshit? every FF has been wild and crazy, did you want it to deviate from that?

The Undying in ff12, The Orphan in ff13, ff10 was even weirder with Yu Yevon and Jecht, Necron in 9, Ultimecia in 8 ....15 was a bit different but also regarded as the worst ff of all time.

 

[Dynasty8]

The MMO-style design of recent RPGs has been really unfortunate. Saw a good video on this recently:



The map markers, (!) quest markers, and crafting materials that have invaded the entire genre have really destroyed a lot of the basic fun of RPGs, which to me was strongest in the SNES era, especially with FFV, FFVI, and Chrono Trigger, but stayed strong through the PS2 era. Even by just removing all quest markers, you immediately make the game better, since the player actually feels some engagement in finding and completing quests, rather than the whole thing feeling like going down a checklist.

This is all really clear in FFXVI, which at its core is a really solid action game with amazing sound and visuals— but it's been unnaturally grafted with a neo-RPG that brings the whole thing down. The devs feel a need to provide "content", and the only way they know how to do it is with these awful MMO-style checklist-fests.

This is spot on. All the modern AAA gaming tropes exist in this game. Exact waypoints, checklist quest markers, extreme linearity and mindlessly easy gameplay....it just ruins all sense of discovery, excitement and surprises.

Everything is so predictable in these modern games now that it's become boring.

 

[OGM_Madness]

I 100% agree. I think both of the newest GoW games are waaaaaaay better than FF16. Better combat, better story (so far), better music, better pacing and better exploration, just better. I can see why some turned away from Ragnarok, but I found the end product to still be amazing. I think it’s the best exclusive on the the PS5.

GoW 2018 & Ragnarok both had better party-based gameplay and action. The story in Ragnarok however didn't do it for me. And I think FFXVI does Scale better. I was very let down with the ending of Ragnarok, because the whole final event/sequence was delivered poorly.

Light spoiler for both games, but just in case:
Running forward while Titan fights Shiva or Garuda is storming about feels 10x more epic and scary. I wanted to feel that with Thor & the Serpent (for example). That said, I haven't finish FFXVI yet, I already got Odin powers and finished the part afterwards in Waloed. I think I'm in the last leg of side-quests before the (hopefully) big finally.

IMO, FFXVI works as an alternative to GOW, but doesn't necessarily replaces it or makes it obsolete. Also, GOW makes the 1-on-1 more epic.

 

[Imtjnotu]

The only thing I hate about the pacing in this game is when you

Leave a cut scene only to take 20 steps to be thrown back into another cut scene or conversation again. And over again. And over again

 

[SF Kosmo]

Why is the ending combating with a celestial being bullshit? every FF has been wild and crazy, did you want it to deviate from that?

It's the most basic, most overdone of JRPG tropes. It isn't wild and crazy, it's boring and cliche.

Monolithic or inhuman evil isn't exactly rich soil for storytelling. It's childish and simple and robs the story of the more compelling themes it explores in the first half. The best stories are the ones where the characters aren't sure what to do, where outcomes are uncertain and motives are conflicted. That's where drama comes from.

The Undying in ff12, The Orphan in ff13, ff10 was even weirder with Yu Yevon and Jecht, Necron in 9, Ultimecia in 8 ....

You're only making my argument that this is a boring cliche that has been done a million times.

 

[Belthazar]

It really might be, which is a shame, because when this game has such great high moments.

I feel like I have to go through 1-2 hours of boring stuff for like 20-30 minutes of greatness. I’m at a low point right now and it’s getting harder to pick up the controller to slug through the bad stuff.

I feel like that too... And the worst part is that when I'm at those low points I go for like 2 days without playing, which makes it take even longer to get to the good parts.

 

[Belthazar]

In addition to some Leviathan the Lost DLC, we need some DLC where we go deep into some Fallen ruins with a superboss at the end. A proper post-game dungeon.

Honestly, I feel like this should come as a free update tbh.

 

[FoxMcChief]

I feel like that too... And the worst part is that when I'm at those low points I go for like 2 days without playing, which makes it take even longer to get to the good parts.

Yup. I was going to play last night, but remembered what I was doing in the game when I last played, so I decided to just play AEW.

 

[SF Kosmo]

The MMO-style design of recent RPGs has been really unfortunate. Saw a good video on this recently:



The map markers, (!) quest markers, and crafting materials that have invaded the entire genre have really destroyed a lot of the basic fun of RPGs, which to me was strongest in the SNES era, especially with FFV, FFVI, and Chrono Trigger, but stayed strong through the PS2 era. Even by just removing all quest markers, you immediately make the game better, since the player actually feels some engagement in finding and completing quests, rather than the whole thing feeling like going down a checklist.

This is all really clear in FFXVI, which at its core is a really solid action game with amazing sound and visuals— but it's been unnaturally grafted with a neo-RPG that brings the whole thing down. The devs feel a need to provide "content", and the only way they know how to do it is with these awful MMO-style checklist-fests.

I think this is unfair to the games that do this stuff better. The RPG elements in FF16 have been trivialized, and that's the bigger problem. Like you're finding garbage crafting materials almost constantly but you never end up crafting anything with them because there's only a meaningful upgrade every 10 hours and it doesn't ever (or maybe once) involve s Magicked Ash or Briar Clams or whatever garbage.

The equipment is never interesting, every once in a while you get a modest stat boost for crafting something new. Most of the time there is simply no upgrade to craft at all, and there are never interesting choices about what to equip.

God of War does this way better. There are tons and tons of items, enough to make exploring rewarding, and they can do different things or have different effect. And God of War is hardly considered a deep RPG...

 

[SlimySnake]

The only thing I hate about the pacing in this game is when you

Leave a cut scene only to take 20 steps to be thrown back into another cut scene or conversation again. And over again. And over again

yep. its classic mmo design.

 

[Imtjnotu]

yep. its classic mmo design.

I always skipped the mmo games. Never played 14.

But there are times where I'll just throw my ps5 in rest. Mode of I have to go from cutscene to cutscene.

 

[Luipadre]

I dont know who tought giving the players 15 sidequests right before the final mission is a good idea. I Liked the game overall, but its one of the most flawed game i've played in recent years. Still did every sidequest and im on the last mission now and while i loved the game, its pacing and systems are all over the place

 

[tmlDan]

It's the most basic, most overdone of JRPG tropes. It isn't wild and crazy, it's boring and cliche.

Monolithic or inhuman evil isn't exactly rich soil for storytelling. It's childish and simple and robs the story of the more compelling themes it explores in the first half. The best stories are the ones where the characters aren't sure what to do, where outcomes are uncertain and motives are conflicted. That's where drama comes from.


You're only making my argument that this is a boring cliche that has been done a million times.

why does every response seem aggressive, why are you triggered when i asked a simple question.

If it's a boring cliche to you, maybe you should avoid FF games? Outcomes in this game were uncertain even if it pertained to a deity, it was a twist in the story that unfolded near the end it was unexpected versus the typical melodrama of game of thrones. What themes are you referring to that were in the beginning? slavery? royalty? people dying from magic use and aether poisoning? most has been done a million times in other forms of fiction and non-fiction?

I want to avoid spoiling anything for people in this thread but the ending and the consequences are very uncertain. Although they could have done a better job fleshing out what happens after the ending.

 

[Unrivaledx88]

Didn’t pick up the game bc im not into DMC style of gameplay . I guess I won’t be picking this up .

I actually liked FF15 tho. Y’all bitch to much

 

[MarkMe2525]

You have to admire Square's insistence to reinvent the wheel with every FF release, but gosh damn is it wholely unnecessary. They should have a fine tuned blueprint for FF at this point that allows them to build a game and focus their time on the mechanics, and story beats that really bring players in.

 

[xellos2099alpha]

I think this is unfair to the games that do this stuff better. The RPG elements in FF16 have been trivialized, and that's the bigger problem. Like you're finding garbage crafting materials almost constantly but you never end up crafting anything with them because there's only a meaningful upgrade every 10 hours and it doesn't ever (or maybe once) involve s Magicked Ash or Briar Clams or whatever garbage.

The equipment is never interesting, every once in a while you get a modest stat boost for crafting something new. Most of the time there is simply no upgrade to craft at all, and there are never interesting choices about what to equip.

God of War does this way better. There are tons and tons of items, enough to make exploring rewarding, and they can do different things or have different effect. And God of War is hardly considered a deep RPG...

Normally in 99% of jrpg, there really never was a real choice. There is illision of choice of equiping something else, but it would made you less effective. It is equip the very best stat equipment.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

Yeah I'm still excited to try it out.
Ultimately I like to form my own opinion, there's tons of flawed games I've enjoyed over the years (including the Last Remnant which is by the same director as FFXVI)

Besides the internet (Gaf included) told me Persona 5 is one of if not the greatest JRPG ever made and I found it boring as fuck.

Persona 5 is not even the best Persona let alone greatest JRPG ever made xDD

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Every woman in the game is supremely bangable, just to varying degrees. God bless Japanese developers.

You mean... you'd bang Charon?

 

[mdkirby]

Tbh I think you're kinda saying the quiet part out loud. You're more engaged with a title meant to played endlessly with a great loop vs something meant to be "experienced"

Its actually unusual for me. I most typically play immersive narrative adventures. Something like rogue legacy I would describe more as mindless comfort food....like the equivalent of putting on an episode of CSI, Family Guy or the Flash. Tho I have in the last couple of years navigated to the middle ground of indie narrative adventures, like road96, or even on the higher end the semi-indie Death Stranding which still tell a great story, but are lighter and more relaxed.

 

[Low Moral Fibre]

I did the Titan fight which was the first boss that wasn't essentially a cutscene but just can't be fucked to play 5 hours of filler for another 10 minute boss fight surrounded by 20 minutes of cutscenes. The story didn't capture me at all which obviously doesn't help. I doubt I will even bother watching the end on YouTube.

I can understand some people thinking this is a 10/10 but I probably think there are a lot more people that think this is a 7/10 which makes the Metacritic average all the more unbelievable - people swept up in the hype maybe or more willing to ignore terrible design choices in Japanese games for some reason? If this was a Ubisoft game with so much filler it would be rightfully roasted by a good chuck of the gaming press.

If they are happy completely removing any RPG elements they should have made a shorter and tighter action game and focused on the bits of the game that were actually fun.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Didn’t pick up the game bc im not into DMC style of gameplay . I guess I won’t be picking this up .

I actually liked FF15 tho. Y’all bitch to much

I'm of the mindset that the more you pay for something, the more critical you should be of it.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

I actually liked FF15 tho.

FF XV I'm excited to revisit after this, despite it being a clear homoerotic adventure all 4 party members have distinct unique abilities and attributes that define them and add some form of connection to Noctis. Anyone who isn't Cid in XVI is a boring, soulless husk of character. Jill is pretty to look at but doesn't have any form of character like Celes or Tifa or Garnet even someone like Rosa from FF IV outshines her.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Normally in 99% of jrpg, there really never was a real choice. There is illision of choice of equiping something else, but it would made you less effective. It is equip the very best stat equipment.

But there is still a choice of how to apportion your resources or what quests to go on to get stuff, but there just isn't any reward for that stuff here.

Like I have 300,000 gil in this game or whatever and nothing to spend it on, because there exists no better equipment right now. 5 hours from now maybe a better whatsit will pop in the show and I will spend a trivial pittance of my mountain of money on it for a slight stat boost.

It's just not interesting.

 

[cireza]

Normally in 99% of jrpg, there really never was a real choice. There is illision of choice of equiping something else, but it would made you less effective. It is equip the very best stat equipment.

Reading this makes me sad when I see games such as the Phantasy Star games, going back to 1987, which managed to understand this from the very first game in the series. You could even decide to spend your money in an optional vehicle to go through the desert, rather than investing in new weapons. Everything was expensive so money had real value.

 

[Dynasty8]

But there is still a choice of how to apportion your resources or what quests to go on to get stuff, but there just isn't any reward for that stuff here.

Like I have 300,000 gil in this game or whatever and nothing to spend it on, because there exists no better equipment right now. 5 hours from now maybe a better whatsit will pop in the show and I will spend a trivial pittance of my mountain of money on it for a slight stat boost.

It's just not interesting.

What do you mean? You don't like spending 40,000 gil on NEW MUSIC TRACKS at the hideout!?

So exciting!

 

[DenchDeckard]

Something else, How much money did they spend on dialogue for so many to miss it or just smash the x button through it. It blows my mind.

 

[TAS]

I agree OP. I was super excited to get back into the FF series since a hiatus from the SNES days lol. I'm a good 30 hours in and I'm forcing myself to play at this point. I'm going to put it on the backburner and maybe return to it someday.

 

[semiconscious]

I can understand some people thinking this is a 10/10 but I probably think there are a lot more people that think this is a 7/10 which makes the Metacritic average all the more unbelievable - people swept up in the hype maybe or more willing to ignore terrible design choices in Japanese games for some reason? If this was a Ubisoft game with so much filler it would be rightfully roasted by a good chuck of the gaming press...

what with extended development times, combined with advanced hype machine technology, i think we've hit a point in gaming where expectations regarding the biggest releases has intensified to the point where these major titles simply have to be good. not necessarily perfect, but, at the very least, 'satisfactory'. the alternative is basically disappointment on an unacceptable level. to a great extent, the industry's currently structured in such a way that we either have to enjoy the major titles as they are served up to us, or just move along...

 

[Revolutionary]

The best part about XVI is that people now are far less hyperbolic about XV.

It's the new Final Fantasy Cycle™

XII was the worst FF until XIII was the worst FF ever until XV was the worst FF ever until XVI was the worst FF ever...

 

[fart town usa]

What do you mean? You don't like spending 40,000 gil on NEW MUSIC TRACKS at the hideout!?

So exciting!

I wish they were cheaper, I have plenty of cash but not enough to buy up OST items. My favorite XVI track reminds me of a classic track from Mass Effect. I always have it playing in the Hideout.

 

[xellos2099alpha]

But there is still a choice of how to apportion your resources or what quests to go on to get stuff, but there just isn't any reward for that stuff here.

Like I have 300,000 gil in this game or whatever and nothing to spend it on, because there exists no better equipment right now. 5 hours from now maybe a better whatsit will pop in the show and I will spend a trivial pittance of my mountain of money on it for a slight stat boost.

It's just not interesting.

I will give you that. Gil is worthless beside for the music scroll. I only use it for some crafting equipment that require 100 shell or something. Most of the equipment that offer better stat are the sidequest one and one that require A rank S rank hunt for material.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

I wish they were cheaper, I have plenty of cash but not enough to buy up OST items. My favorite XVI track reminds me of a classic track from Mass Effect. I always have it playing in the Hideout.

Didn't notice while playing, but it does sound similar. Mass Effect had a great soundtrack.

 

[Fuz]

every FF has been wild and crazy, did you want it to deviate from that?

Well, they deviated from turn based combat, party system, camera, setting...
"Every Final Fantasy is different", wasn't it?