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[Kacho]

With FF7 Remake, Square made a PR statement announcing 3.5 Million sold in 3 Days. Maybe they are waiting to surpass the 3.5 Million to do the same… But in UK Rebirth sold less than Remake and in Spain. Looks like is an WW decrease in sales compared to Remake, by a good margin.

Yep. We know the west will carry this game. The question is will it be enough. I'm curious to see how it does.

 

[Perfo]

By franchise’s history with sequels we already knew there was going to be a big decline… delusional thinking it could reverse “tradition” imho.

 

[Nickolaidas]

Word of mouth will help Rebirth immensely. Launch sales mean shit.

 

[Dynasty8]

Sucks to see this, Rebirth is MUCH better than XVI.

 

[Interfectum]

With FF7 Remake, Square made a PR statement announcing 3.5 Million sold in 3 Days. Maybe they are waiting to surpass the 3.5 Million to do the same… But in UK Rebirth sold less than Remake and in Spain. Looks like is an WW decrease in sales compared to Remake, by a good margin.

It's probably not going to outsell FF7 Remake (released during COVID, PS4, initial FF7 hype) but it's going to outsell its closest FF competitor (FF16).

We don't know yet about the US sales, word of mouth lift (if any), etc. People are going on full blown meltdown, analyst mode with very limited data.

Every piece of data I've seen, that I've used before to predict sales tells me this game is doing huge numbers in the US. We'll see if that pans out.

 

[RoboFu]

FF 16 released at the end of the ps4 life . Don't be daft. edit: sorry I was thinking about the first FF7remake

Remake will go on to sell a lot more.

 

[mckmas8808]

With FF7 Remake, Square made a PR statement announcing 3.5 Million sold in 3 Days. Maybe they are waiting to surpass the 3.5 Million to do the same… But in UK Rebirth sold less than Remake and in Spain. Looks like is an WW decrease in sales compared to Remake, by a good margin.

Did the UK and Spain initial numbers include digital sales?

 

[Nickolaidas]

For more context and comparison with Elden Ring. Sold 12 million copies worldwide in the first month, and only ONE million was Japanese sales.

So I think it is reasonable to expect Rebirth to do ten times that number globally, though being a PS5 exclusive will hurt those sales, so we could be looking at two million in the first month.

If the PC version comes in 3-4 months, we can expect another million, globally.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Would love to see theoretical sales for Rebirth and XVI of they were able to launch as they are just on Switch.

You'd probably get higher sales since the Switch has been out longer meaning a larger install base. How much higher would be the better question.

And the only way you can actually get a fair comparison is if the games launched with Switch install base at the same size as PS5's currently in Japan, to test if it's a platform appeal problem. Or, you could test it with Switch at a higher install base vs PS5, then compare the sales rate of the games on both platforms to see the ratio of the game's increase vs. console increase.

But that second test would just be used to determine if similar other games have been a driving force in Switch's larger install base launch-aligned with PS5. Because if so, you'd expect a growth in total software sales for games like XVI and VII Rebirth to reflect it. If not, then the idea of those games prioritizing Switch instead of PlayStation would only bring negligible sales improvements at best.

I guess the only way to truly prove such a test going forward is if something like the rumored IX remake is PS5/Switch 2 multiplatform Day 1 (although even here, if Switch 2 got the higher share that could also simply be due to there being less games in the library to choose from so what fewer games are there will benefit from more sales per game, as the game has less competition on that platform).

 

[gundalf]

It is to be expected with a small install base, the PS5 is too big, expensive and some still have the mental image of it being scare/low supply so they don't even look out for it.
The Switch 2 release will sell like crazy though.

 

[blackjon24]

6x higher for XIII?

The cope is real

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

You'd probably get higher sales since the Switch has been out longer meaning a larger install base. How much higher would be the better question.

And the only way you can actually get a fair comparison is if the games launched with Switch install base at the same size as PS5's currently in Japan, to test if it's a platform appeal problem. Or, you could test it with Switch at a higher install base vs PS5, then compare the sales rate of the games on both platforms to see the ratio of the game's increase vs. console increase.

But that second test would just be used to determine if similar other games have been a driving force in Switch's larger install base launch-aligned with PS5. Because if so, you'd expect a growth in total software sales for games like XVI and VII Rebirth to reflect it. If not, then the idea of those games prioritizing Switch instead of PlayStation would only bring negligible sales improvements at best.

I guess the only way to truly prove such a test going forward is if something like the rumored IX remake is PS5/Switch 2 multiplatform Day 1 (although even here, if Switch 2 got the higher share that could also simply be due to there being less games in the library to choose from so what fewer games are there will benefit from more sales per game, as the game has less competition on that platform).

I'm not looking for a fair comparison per se just in a hypothetical universe in which switch could run those with all other factors the same, in other words the same user basic currently have the same sales that currently has. I feel like that would be optimal sales conditions and it would just be interesting to know how well it could do.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

It isn't about reasoned discussions on GAF here. It's that some people just disagree with some of your conclusions. It doesn't make them bad people. Your conclusions can be a bit odd sometimes. Not all the time.

Who said they were bad people?

I can get into a heated discussion with someone and thumbs up their comment in another thread minutes later. I don't really care.

What I find interesting is that I'm constantly being proved right and yet that doesn't change the pushback that I get. People have really short memories and some people even go postal when you show them receipts.

 

[LordOcidax]

For more context and comparison with Elden Ring. Sold 12 million copies worldwide in the first month, and only ONE million was Japanese sales.

So I think it is reasonable to expect Rebirth to do ten times that number globally, though being a PS5 exclusive will hurt those sales, so we could be looking at two million in the first month.

If the PC version comes in 3-4 months, we can expect another million, globally.

Thats to low for a complete month… Remake sold 3.5 in just 3 days. I expect 4.5 million first month.

 

[Nickolaidas]

Thats to low for a complete month… Remake sold 3.5 in just 3 days. I expect 4.5 million first month.

I'm just not sure of A) How many PS4 were owned when Remake got out, compared to PS5s, and B) how bummed were the Japanese by FF16.

 

[Neff]

I can't leave Rebirth alone, I'm at it every chance I can get. As soon as I'm done, I'll be replaying it.

I'm still only a quarter of the way through XVI and the only way I'm going back is bribery, or the prospect of playing it being better than terminal boredom. Which is slim.

I can't believe they were made by the same company, let alone being part of the same franchise.

 

[Celcius]

FF16 I bought at launch but ended up wishing I had waited and bought the PC version instead.
I'm not making the same mistake this time - I'm intentionally waiting on the PC version.

 

[Muffdraul]

Hard to blame Japanese FF fans for playing FFXVI and then swearing they will never play another new FF for the rest of their life.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

FF16 I bought at launch but ended up wishing I had waited and bought the PC version instead.
I'm not making the same mistake this time - I'm intentionally waiting on the PC version.

To it's credit, Rebirth is a lot better. I bought a PS5 for XVI basically (also knowing other stuff was coming but yeah that was the catalyst). Kind of a let down.

 

[cash_longfellow]

Who said they were bad people?

I can get into a heated discussion with someone and thumbs up their comment in another thread minutes later. I don't really care.

What I find interesting is that I'm constantly being proved right and yet that doesn't change the pushback that I get. People have really short memories and some people even go postal when you show them receipts.

I feel this 100%. I have so many people on my ignore list now because they just can’t let things go and/or they start to make things personal even if I admitted they were right at some point. This is supposed to be a place for heated discussion about what we all love, video games.

 

[LordOcidax]

I'm just not sure of A) How many PS4 were owned when Remake got out, compared to PS5s, and B) how bummed were the Japanese by FF16.

FF 7 Rebirth is supposed to be a system seller, didn’t work in Japan, but we’ll see in the rest of the world.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

SE must be wishing Nintendo would put out that Switch 2 already.

 

[Nickolaidas]

I had no idea people hated 16 so much. At any rate, word of mouth will definitely help Rebirth, since everyone here seems to think it's at least five times better than 16.

 

[Mr Moose]

Did the UK and Spain initial numbers include digital sales?

No, only monthly charts include digital for UK/Europe.

I'm just not sure of A) How many PS4 were owned when Remake got out, compared to PS5s, and B) how bummed were the Japanese by FF16.

110 million.

PlayStation 4 sales reach 110.4 million

As part of its financial results today, Sony revealed that lifetime sales for PlayStation 4 have now passed 110.4 million.

venturebeat.com

Oh, Japan? Wait brb.
9,116,923.

 

[CosmicComet]

Clive > Cloud. All day.

Jack is >>>>>>> both tho

 

[Woopah]

The only one you can really fairly compare it to is FF16. The install base was much much higher for 13, 15, and Remake (ps4).

Yes for Remake, not the other two.

13 launched on a PS3 install base of 4,276,480

15 launched on a PS4 install base of 3,745,023

Rebirth launched on a PS5 install base of 5,345,349

Of course, digital does muddy the waters somewhat.

Would love to see theoretical sales for Rebirth and XVI of they were able to launch as they are just on Switch.

SE hasn't done that much to build an audience for mainline FF on Switch, so I wouldn’t expect the numbers for Switch versions to be too impressive either

Oh yeah it was confirmed. Those other games had way more days to accumulate. Non-story. It will probably be higher than FF16.

Which games had more "way more days"?

FFXIII and XVI had 4 days, same as Rebirth, while XV had 6 days and Remake had 3 days.

I thought it was well established that Japan basically only cares about handhelds now? And that regular consoles struggle in Japan.

Portable gaming is big in Japan, but TV gaming is also pretty big.

 

[Madflavor]

I took a lot of heat for saying that FF7 Rebirth wasn't going to be a major needle-mover.

It has major limitations in front of it that for some reason people wanted to ignore.

1. Only Final Fantasy fans are going to play the game
2. It's largely limited to people who played the first chapter

We'd already seen the sales of Remake/Integrade and the sales of FF16. So the delta here, new sales would be people who played FF7 remake on PS4 but had not upgraded to PS5 yet even for FF16.

That number was always going to be relatively low.

I'm continuously surprised by how difficult it is to have reasoned discussions on things that are pretty apparent here.

People expected a drop off, I just don't think we were expecting it to be this steep.

 

[Pelao]

And the third part will probably sell less than Rebirth.
I'm really liking Rebirth in the 60 hours I've been playing it, but Remake was too tedious and I wouldn't be surprised if it served as a filter for a lot of people who might have enjoyed Rebirth, especially since it's more or less necessary to play it since they tell a continuous story.
Anyway, maybe word of mouth will help and make this not the case, who knows.

 

[Masterri]

Par for the course for the GachaStation 5.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Could the mediocrity of FFXVI have played a part in people skipping Rebirth? It's like the reputation of FF has really taken a nose dive over the years.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I'm not looking for a fair comparison per se just in a hypothetical universe in which switch could run those with all other factors the same, in other words the same user basic currently have the same sales that currently has. I feel like that would be optimal sales conditions and it would just be interesting to know how well it could do.

I kinda agree, and I do feel like if the IX remake is happening, S-E are going to prioritize at least PS5 and Switch 2 for Day 1. Granted that will be a smaller-scale remake so whatever sales performance it has won't be directly correlative to bigger remakes like FF VII, but I do think if Square-Enix see the sales ratio for that type of game skew very evenly or even slightly in favor of Switch 2 despite a smaller install base, it would make them consider VII Part 3 for Switch 2 at launch or shortly after a PS5 release, probably with the first two parts bundled in too. Which would maybe slow development on Part 3 down a bit, meaning it could be a cross-gen PS5/PS6 title.

I know Rebirth's sales are still very good for Japan and they are probably closer to 500K with digital included, but a downward trend for debuts each new game is still a downward trend. It could be due to a multiple of factors, but I'd suspect aspects with PS5 itself in the Japanese market, plus maybe just aspects of FF brand style falling out of favor more these days, are a part of it. The people saying "well it'd just be larger if it were on Xbox and PC!" seem to think it's an availability issue but what if it's not? Game Pass is on every device but Nintendo and PlayStation, and that service virtually stagnated in growth for two whole years, only getting a small bump when Gold was lumped into it at long last.

For all we know it could be a Game Pass-like situation with FF to those outside of the core enthusiast circles, where maybe the games don't have a certain appeal to younger audiences. Maybe the next mainline FF should have be part-dating sim, or take inspiration from Persona with the Social Links. There are some older RPG/simulator games (there's one niche franchise from Japan I can't remember the name of) where you actually made your own dungeons to then explore, gather resources and then used those to supply your own towns. Kind of something like the ActRaiser games but more JRPG-style in certain areas. Maybe S-E can bring some of those ideas into a new mainline FF game.

Also not sure if Rebirth had an anime tie-in, but if not it should've. That would have gotten some more attention outside of the game itself, while still tying into the game. I think with some changes like that future games could do a lot more in physical sales for Japan even if they're PS-exclusive, and honestly these types of changes would be more beneficial long-term and aught to be higher-priority than simply thinking porting the games as they are to other platforms will magically skyrocket (physical) sales (again these numbers are only for physical but a lot of people especially on ResetERA are talking about it as if they include digital).

 

[Caffeine]

im not double dipping just waiting for the pc release. sorry square.

 

[Labadal]

I think part 1 turned off some people off. S-E also skipped PS4 for Intergrade.

As for me: I am waiting for Rebirth's "Intergrade" version.

I played the demo, and had fun enough, but I can't stop thinking that we'll get a version with more content.

Maybe word of mouth will help, but I doubt it.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

im not double dipping just waiting for the pc release. sorry square.

A question: If Square-Enix (or Sony; whoever's the one doing this) didn't mention other platforms for the game (or XVI, for that matter) in the fine print (and in the press) mere months after the PS5 version, before the PS5 version even goes on sale...would you have considered picking the game up on PS5?

Or if you don't have a PS5, would that have made you consider getting one for the game (among other games)? Why or why not?

 

[cash_longfellow]

Par for the course for the GachaStation 5.

Right, because that has anything to do with anything about this thread.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I mean the last FF game to release was XVI. And it was crap. Not surprised sales took a hit. Also I'd imagine sales will spike once PC version launches.

 

[squarealex]

Spoiler

Ok, digital sales is better in ten years, but this is so funny...

Bye CB1...

 

[ProtoByte]

I took a lot of heat for saying that FF7 Rebirth wasn't going to be a major needle-mover.

It has major limitations in front of it that for some reason people wanted to ignore.

1. Only Final Fantasy fans are going to play the game
2. It's largely limited to people who played the first chapter

I also think that there's a massive overestimation of FF7's brand power. Over most of 30 years, the game has sold 15 million copies. FF15 hit two thirds of that in less than 6 years.

Market conditions were obviously different back then, and of course you would bring in new players with a Re-Imagining such as this trilogy is... but there's just not enough mystique or future prospect around FF7 for that number to be huge.
If you even know what FF is, you've seen the characters and world more times than can be counted. You've been spoiled on all the key aspects; you might even know of the endless stream of spinoffs and multimedia that make up the FF7 Compilation. And if you still buy into these games, rounding out at 8 years worth of investment when Regenisis releases - what then?

I'm continuously surprised by how difficult it is to have reasoned discussions on things that are pretty apparent here.

You're trying to have reasoned discussion about FF. Hell, about JRPGs in general. That became a lost cause a while back.

It looks like the japanese only like the turn based RPGs while the western gamers like realtime combat.

How are the sales figures of all those turn based games (FE, SMT, Persona, Nu-Yakuza) doing in Japan though? Internationally, they get dwarfed by modern FF's performance.

For all we know it could be a Game Pass-like situation with FF to those outside of the core enthusiast circles, where maybe the games don't have a certain appeal to younger audiences. Maybe the next mainline FF should have be part-dating sim, or take inspiration from Persona with the Social Links.

The highest selling Persona is 5 at around 7.2 million. Coming up to 8 years (Christ) since the Japanese launch and 7 since the international. Including double dipping on Royal on PS4 - triple dipping on PS5, and then dripfeeding Royal to other platforms across that time span.

Fire Emblem is another series that was elevated by its dating sim/social link aspect, and Three Houses is the highest selling at just 4.1 million across 3.5 years, peak Switchmania and a lack of other games competing on the platform.

JRPGs just aren't as high-appeal as people think they are. The closer they approach contemporary levels of "major" IP, they more westernized the tend to be. See FF15.
But FF still has a foot in the 2000s Japanese game mentality. Not quite as steeped in animu as Tales or something (which has been left in the dust by Persona), but what you should really be comparing it to is The Witcher or Baldur's Gate. Not saying it should take up those aesthetics or gameplay systems, but there's something there FF is missing.

 

[mckmas8808]

I'm not looking for a fair comparison per se just in a hypothetical universe in which switch could run those with all other factors the same, in other words the same user basic currently have the same sales that currently has. I feel like that would be optimal sales conditions and it would just be interesting to know how well it could do.

But then what if the PS5 was at 15 million sold in Japan "AND" we included digital units sold?

I had no idea people hated 16 so much. At any rate, word of mouth will definitely help Rebirth, since everyone here seems to think it's at least five times better than 16.

They don't. It's the usuals on GAF that try to make it seem as if 16 was horrible.

 

[KaiserBecks]

The only one you can really fairly compare it to is FF16. The install base was much much higher for 13, 15, and Remake (ps4).

I remember when people bought PlayStation consoles especially for Final Fantasy.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

I remember when people bought PlayStation consoles especially for Final Fantasy.

Yep, I bought a PlayStation just because of FF VII.

 

[mckmas8808]

The highest selling Persona is 5 at around 7.2 million. Coming up to 8 years (Christ) since the Japanese and 7 since the international. Including double dipping on Royal on PS4 - triple dipping on PS5, and then dripfeeding Royal to other platforms across that time span.

Fire Emblem is another series that was elevated by its dating sim/social link aspect, and Three Houses is the highest selling at just 4.1 million across 3.5 years, peak Switchmania and a lack of other games competing on the platform.

JRPGs just aren't has high-appeal as people think they are. The closer they approach contemporary levels of "major" IP, they more westernized they tend to be. See FF15.
But FF still has a foot in the 2000s Japanese game mentality. Not quite as steeped in animu as Tales or something (which has been left in the dust by Persona), but what you should really be comparing it to is The Witcher or Baldur's Gate. Not saying it should take up those aesthetics or gameplay systems, but there's something there FF is missing.

This is a very good point that many JRPG lovers may not want to embrace. There's a ceiling to what JRPGs can do. It's probably between 8-10 million units globally now. Which isn't bad, but it's good to be honest about it. Anything more than 8 million for any JRPG is HUGE nowadays. It's not 2004 anymore.

 

[proandrad]

Japan just likes handhelds nowaday. Imagine the sales in Japan if the game was made for switch.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I also think that there's a massive overestimation of FF7's brand power. Over most of 30 years, the game has sold 15 million copies. FF15 hit two thirds of that in less than 6 years.

Market conditions were obviously different back then, and of course you would bring in new players with a Re-Imagining such as this trilogy is... but there's just not enough mystique or future prospect around FF7 for that number to be huge.
If you even know what FF is, you've seen the characters and world more times than can be counted. You've been spoiled on all the key aspects; you might even know of the endless stream of spinoffs and multimedia that make up the FF7 Compilation. And if you still buy into these games, rounding out at 8 years worth of investment when Regenisis releases - what then?

Resident Evil is more popular now than when it first released.

I think Square has largely mismanaged their game development and Final Fantasy in particular.

I think a FF7 remake could have been a massive game had it been turned based and not so bloated. When the trilogy is over and there are discounts for it, maybe more people will jump in.

 

[LordBlodgett]

Isn't this physical only? What about digital?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

This is a very good point that many JRPG lovers may not want to embrace. There's a ceiling to what JRPGs can do. It's probably between 8-10 million units globally now. Which isn't bad, but it's good to be honest about it. Anything more than 8 million for any JRPG is HUGE nowadays. It's not 2004 anymore.

Pokemon is a JRPG... somehow we're going to call it the exception though.

JRPG weren't selling 10 million units in 2004, in fact most games weren't. WRPGs evolved as have CRPGs. JRPGs have devolved in many respects.

 

[ProtoByte]

Resident Evil is more popular now than when it first released.

Well yeah, practically every remaining game franchise from that time is, FF included. If it wasn't, there would be a problem.
RE4 and 5 original still haven't been outsold by anything yet though. I bet that has a large chance of changing with RE9. Hell, maybe REmakes 2 and 4 outpace those titles by then.

I think Square has largely mismanaged their game development and Final Fantasy in particular.

Agreed, but their most mismanaged title is their fastest selling.

I think a FF7 remake could have been a massive game had it been turned based and not so bloated. When the trilogy is over and there are discounts for it, maybe more people will jump in.

Disagreed heavily. You'd slash sales in by 30-50% at least with that. This Reimagining is the height of what an FF7 project could do in the 2020s imo. If anyone other than Nomura was "helming" it, these launch numbers would he even less.

 

[Caffeine]

A question: If Square-Enix (or Sony; whoever's the one doing this) didn't mention other platforms for the game (or XVI, for that matter) in the fine print (and in the press) mere months after the PS5 version, before the PS5 version even goes on sale...would you have considered picking the game up on PS5?

Or if you don't have a PS5, would that have made you consider getting one for the game (among other games)? Why or why not?

I don't think I would have picked up a console for a single title. Thats even being a big fan of the franchise, having played all of them, and own ultimania's.
The premise here is square already played their hand with previous entries and ports them anyway.

If I had a ps5 I would have picked the game up already. Reality is differing then the what if scenerio both sony and square have been porting their games so there is that.

 

[Madflavor]

I know PS5 being unpopular in Japan plays a part in this, but I really do think we're underestimating how much potential damage they did by pulling the rug out from under people in Remake, by revealing this isn't actually a remake of FFVII. Love it or not, that did turn a lot of people off.

So far we're seeing a 440k difference between Remake and Rebirth in Japan. Ok the PS5 is less popular than PS4, but seriously, where the fuck did those 440k people go? Are they ALL people who just don't own a PS5? Because I believe if Remake landed with you, and you had a great time with it, you'd be making sure you'd have a PS5 to play the next part.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Well yeah, practically every remaining game franchise from that time is, FF included. If it wasn't, there would be a problem.
RE4 and 5 original still haven't been outsold by anything yet though. I bet that has a large chance of changing with RE9. Hell, maybe REmakes 2 and 4 outpace those titles by then.


Agreed, but their most mismanaged title is their fastest selling.


Disagreed heavily. You'd slash sales in by 30-50% at least with that. This Reimagining is the height of what an FF7 project could do in the 2020s imo. If anyone other than Nomura was "helming" it, these launch numbers would he even less.

Resident Evil 2 remake outsold the original. That's not what is happening with Final Fantasy.

Take this same energy and apply it to Kamiya and Shinji Mikami.

There is a lot left on the bone here.