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Digital Foundry Xbox Series X Back-Compat Tests "Hugely Impressive"

Azurro

Banned
You're dead wrong and everyone knows it lol. Why would you choose this hill to die on.

I saw most of the video and they showed games with unlocked framerates or targetting 60 FPS hitting that target much more easily than the One X, and the faster loading. Did they showed something else?

In my opinion it's basically the same concept, take advantage of the faster architecture and let the game run at the system's higher clocks, which is similar to what PS4 Pro did with its boost mode. The games aren't recompiled to make use of the extra CUs or anything similar as far as I understand.

I'd be interested to know in what way my interpretation is different if I'm wrong.
 
I saw most of the video and they showed games with unlocked framerates or targetting 60 FPS hitting that target much more easily than the One X, and the faster loading. Did they showed something else?

In my opinion it's basically the same concept, take advantage of the faster architecture and let the game run at the system's higher clocks, which is similar to what PS4 Pro did with its boost mode. The games aren't recompiled to make use of the extra CUs or anything similar as far as I understand.

I'd be interested to know in what way my interpretation is different if I'm wrong.
I think you’re being purposefully obtuse here. The PS4 Pro isn’t doing nearly the same thing as the Xbox series X. The PS4 Pro doesn’t enhance PS3 games. It doesn’t upscale or improve PS2 or PS1 games. Boost mode doesn’t provide a blanket upgrade to older titles. It relies on title-specific patches to provide meaningful improvements. Microsoft has done a lot of work over the years to make the Xbox platform library available to their newest consoles. Xbox One games will be able to take advantage of Xbox Series X hardware without any patches or alterations. The series X plays 360 games with improves frame rates and, in some cases, upgrades textures. It’s relatively seamless. Microsoft said their goal was to support every Xbox game, all the way back to the original Xbox. That’s a huge amount of work, and they’ve done a great job. You don’t have to be impressed, but I would think you can understand why others are.
 

THE DUCK

voted poster of the decade by bots
Xbox Series X feels like getting a new PC (focus on better performance/visuals for old/current games), while PS5 is like a new console (focus on new games only possible on new hardware). Both approaches have merit and have me equally excited.

What? That makes no sense. There are plenty of games for series x that will only be possible on the new hardware. Don't mistake the ability to play older games at a increased frame rate / resolution with a change of focus.
 

semicool

Banned
I gonna stop it right there and let you fill in your analogs to PC and Bernie beliefs, give us 4. for it.
Sure, I'll try. Bernie would want:

1)ALL games to earn the same amount of money despite their quality. And all developers get paid the same amount money no matter how many hours they worked or how hard they worked or how good their output was or how crappy the game was.

2)Gamers cannot choose which platform or games they can buy as that would be discriminatory and point 1 couldn't happen. We all play crappy games together. Games and the one platform(non PC as all the hardware would be the same crappy console for everyone) would be government controlled.

3)All games would be required to have a communist socialist theme or won't get government funding, in fact, if a culprit releases any such thing, mandatory jail sentence or, like many millions of people murdered in a communist fascist country, risk a death sentence for repeat offenders especially freedom of thought promoting offenders . Of course that would almost never happen as the KGB, CIA etc...would be spying everywhere where there's government control. Conform to fascist Communism or suffer the consequences.

4)Everyone is forced to "play" these "games" as part of their socialist education in school and at work.

Meanwhile , multi-trillionaire, and all vested government empowered Bernie is in his billions estate playing many of the actually fun classics that no one else, that's not in the top Communist hierarchy, can play.

Gaming Communism is the textbook definition of a "wolf in sheep's clothing" as we've seen in communists countries for those hypocritical power grabbers who are able to deceive those that lack discernment(emotional intelligence) or for those seeking power over others or those people who call good evil and evil good.
 
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Azurro

Banned
I think you’re being purposefully obtuse here. The PS4 Pro isn’t doing nearly the same thing as the Xbox series X. The PS4 Pro doesn’t enhance PS3 games. It doesn’t upscale or improve PS2 or PS1 games. Boost mode doesn’t provide a blanket upgrade to older titles. It relies on title-specific patches to provide meaningful improvements. Microsoft has done a lot of work over the years to make the Xbox platform library available to their newest consoles. Xbox One games will be able to take advantage of Xbox Series X hardware without any patches or alterations. The series X plays 360 games with improves frame rates and, in some cases, upgrades textures. It’s relatively seamless. Microsoft said their goal was to support every Xbox game, all the way back to the original Xbox. That’s a huge amount of work, and they’ve done a great job. You don’t have to be impressed, but I would think you can understand why others are.

This is why my comment on people arguing semantics. The PS4 and PS4 Pro are different machines, the Pro with higher clocks, higher CU counts and other improvements. For the PS4 Pro to run PS4 games, a backwards compatibility mode had to be created and a boost mode was added so that performance would benefit where possible, it's the same concept.

I admit I'm a bit puzzled as to why it's a big deal as we have already seen it done before as it's just higher framerate, but it's definitely nice that it's there and that the performance is good.
 
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BluRayHiDef

Banned
MuH TfLoPs

- can't hold stable framerates on Shekiro and Hitman
- 12 to 20 seconds for "quick resume"

The Series X just keeps on failing.
I'm late to this thread. 20 to 30 seconds for quick resume? Well, current-gen games probably aren't designed to load quickly.
 
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Celcius

°Temp. member
Very cool what they did with DOA6 by adding a 4K mode even though the console at the time couldn't handle it.... now with backwards compatibility it runs way better and the option is already there with no additional patch/upgrades needed.
 

Stuart360

Member
Very cool what they did with DOA6 by adding a 4K mode even though the console at the time couldn't handle it.... now with backwards compatibility it runs way better and the option is already there with no additional patch/upgrades needed.
Yeah the mid gen consoles have had a nice effect with next gen. So many games with performance modes and dynamic resolutions.
 

Piku_Ringo

Banned
That sweet sweet back compatibility performance mixed with the salty fanboy tears is such a euphoric feeling.

tenor.gif
DbgFKmb.gif
 

Spokker

Member
This is why my comment on people arguing semantics. The PS4 and PS4 Pro are different machines, the Pro with higher clocks, higher CU counts and other improvements. For the PS4 Pro to run PS4 games, a backwards compatibility mode had to be created and a boost mode was added so that performance would benefit where possible, it's the same concept.
The PS4 and the PS4 Pro, as well as the Xbox One and Xbox One X, speak the same respective languages. A PS4 Pro is a PS4. Higher clock speeds generally become a problem when a game's logic is tied to clock speed. For example, some older PC games can run too quickly on more modern hardware. It's also a problem when a game's animations are tied to frame rate, and a higher frame rate would break them. Think of the old PS1 and PS2 Final Fantasy games. FFX runs at 30 FPS even on Steam.

More modern games don't really have this problem as they avoid these programming methods and design flaws. I only know of 3 games that fail to run properly on PS4 Pro's boost mode (all 3 are non-AAA games), and the problems they exhibit are minor. The PS4 Pro doesn't need a compatibility mode to run the vast, vast majority of the PS4's library. That whole thing of disabling boost mode by default was a CYA move.

The Xbox Series Whatever also runs Xbox One games natively. It doesn't emulate them. It doesn't have a system-on-chip solution. It just runs them. The non-patched games can be improved at a system level similar to how you can toggle settings in your GPU's settings application, like forcing vsync or anisoptropic filtering (Xbox One X also did this). It's a very good feature but it's not like some kind of engineering feat Microsoft pulled off.

In other words, the Xbox One and the Xbox Series S/X speak the same general language, but the Series S\X not only speaks it more quickly but has a fuller vocabulary. Sure, it's "backwards compatible" but not in the same way the PS2 was backwards compatible with PS1 games (system on chip) or how the Xbox 360 was backwards compatible with some Xbox games (emulation).
 
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Spokker

Member
Xbox One games will be able to take advantage of Xbox Series X hardware without any patches or alterations. The series X plays 360 games with improves frame rates and, in some cases, upgrades textures.
What do you mean by upgraded textures? If you mean superior texture filtering (16x anisotropic filtering), then less, textures will appear less blurry at an angle on Series X, just as they do on Xbox One X. And it's not just in some cases. It's forced for all Xbox One and supported Xbox 360 games.

If you mean higher resolution textures, no, that has to be patched by the developer. That's what I think when I hear upgraded textures.
 
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kingpotato

Ask me about my Stream Deck
- Rich tested the quick resume as well. Working very good
- Jump between GT4 , Call of Duty MW and Doom. The game act like you paused the game. Works like savestate on emulators
- Loading times. He tested two games
- On FFXV, Xbox One X take 63,3 while Series X take 11,6 seconds
This is the best ☀️
 

pyrocro

Member
Sure, I'll try. Bernie would want:

1)ALL games to earn the same amount of money despite their quality. And all developers get paid the same amount money no matter how many hours they worked or how hard they worked or how good their output was or how crappy the game was.

2)Gamers cannot choose which platform or games they can buy as that would be discriminatory and point 1 couldn't happen. We all play crappy games together. Games and the one platform(non PC as all the hardware would be the same crappy console for everyone) would be government controlled.

3)All games would be required to have a communist socialist theme or won't get government funding, in fact, if a culprit releases any such thing, mandatory jail sentence or, like many millions of people murdered in a communist fascist country, risk a death sentence for repeat offenders especially freedom of thought promoting offenders . Of course that would almost never happen as the KGB, CIA etc...would be spying everywhere where there's government control. Conform to fascist Communism or suffer the consequences.

4)Everyone is forced to "play" these "games" as part of their socialist education in school and at work.

Meanwhile , multi-trillionaire, and all vested government empowered Bernie is in his billions estate playing many of the actually fun classics that no one else, that's not in the top Communist hierarchy, can play.

Gaming Communism is the textbook definition of a "wolf in sheep's clothing" as we've seen in communists countries for those hypocritical power grabbers who are able to deceive those that lack discernment(emotional intelligence) or for those seeking power over others or those people who call good evil and evil good.
WOW is this what you really hear I was not prepared for how ridiculous you would go with it :). I was not LOL.
 

MrFunSocks

Banned
Also, can't wait for that external drive info for both consoles. Should be Good
What info? We already know exactly how series s/x handle them. You can play bc games from external but not next gen. They need to be transferred to internal to play, but can store them on external.
 

semicool

Banned
The PS4 and the PS4 Pro, as well as the Xbox One and Xbox One X, speak the same respective languages. A PS4 Pro is a PS4. Higher clock speeds generally become a problem when a game's logic is tied to clock speed. For example, some older PC games can run too quickly on more modern hardware. It's also a problem when a game's animations are tied to frame rate, and a higher frame rate would break them. Think of the old PS1 and PS2 Final Fantasy games. FFX runs at 30 FPS even on Steam.

More modern games don't really have this problem as they avoid these programming methods and design flaws. I only know of 3 games that fail to run properly on PS4 Pro's boost mode (all 3 are non-AAA games), and the problems they exhibit are minor. The PS4 Pro doesn't need a compatibility mode to run the vast, vast majority of the PS4's library. That whole thing of disabling boost mode by default was a CYA move.

The Xbox Series Whatever also runs Xbox One games natively. It doesn't emulate them. It doesn't have a system-on-chip solution. It just runs them. The non-patched games can be improved at a system level similar to how you can toggle settings in your GPU's settings application, like forcing vsync or anisoptropic filtering (Xbox One X also did this). It's a very good feature but it's not like some kind of engineering feat Microsoft pulled off.

In other words, the Xbox One and the Xbox Series S/X speak the same general language, but the Series S\X not only speaks it more quickly but has a fuller vocabulary. Sure, it's "backwards compatible" but not in the same way the PS2 was backwards compatible with PS1 games (system on chip) or how the Xbox 360 was backwards compatible with some Xbox games (emulation).
I think you missed the article this thread is about. Or you didn't read it. It's in the OP. And/or you didn't read the parsed or quoted info in this very thread. Or you did read the info, but didn't understand it. I'm curious which it is.

Here for starters, try reading the article and focus on the parts that discuss XSX BC:

 
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Super impressive imo. Let's see what Sony brings now.... Haha JK. Sony won't show anything.

Honestly it's smart if Sony don't, they can only BC games for PS4 Pro, which target lower rates than those for Xbox One X, ie, having 1440p mode rather than 4k.

That's just for current gen, throw in the library from before that and the difference is staggering.

At this stage Sony are so far behind on BC, it's better if they focus on next gen games and I think it's obvious they will.
 
Damn I was hoping they tried fallout 4 or skyrim,fallout 4 framerate was bad when the brotherhood choppers started flying around the map.
 

MrFunSocks

Banned
Honestly it's smart if Sony don't, they can only BC games for PS4 Pro, which target lower rates than those for Xbox One X, ie, having 1440p mode rather than 4k.

That's just for current gen, throw in the library from before that and the difference is staggering.

At this stage Sony are so far behind on BC, it's better if they focus on next gen games and I think it's obvious they will.
They’re gonna focus on nothing other than brand name and almost straight up lies tbh. “We believe in generations” and so on. They’re beat on design, price, and bc. They have a bunch of cross gen games and not much else at this stage. Their big reveal for God of war was a logo and not even saying it was next gen exclusive.

the console will sell, they’re gonna keep quiet because all they can do is hurt their image.


Has there been any talk of transfer speeds?
Pretty sure there was a bit in this vid about it with examples. It all depends on the type of external. SSD to ssd is fastest, for example. SSD to ssd took about 2.5 mins iirc for their examples.
 
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Spokker

Member
I think you missed the article this thread is about. Or you didn't read it. It's in the OP. And/or you didn't read the parsed or quoted info in this very thread. Or you did read the info, but didn't understand it. I'm curious which it is.

Here for starters, try reading the article and focus on the parts that discuss XSX BC:

I both read and watched the Digital Foundry analysis. The Xbox Series X will run unpatched Xbox One and select Xbox 360 games (so far, the ones that run on Xbox One) on faster hardware. This could result in higher average resolutions where a dynamic resolution solution is used, higher frame rates in games in which the frame rate is uncapped, anisotropic filtering (Xbox One X also does this) and Auto HDR (haven't seen this in action yet). There is some talk of Microsoft being able to "uncap" capped frame rates in some games, but we haven't seen it in action yet. The Xbox One X does some of these things, which I have some extensive experience with.

What did I miss? What did your reply have to do with mine?
 
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MrFunSocks

Banned
I both read and watched the Digital Foundry analysis. The Xbox Series X will run unpatched Xbox One and select Xbox 360 games (so far, the ones that run on Xbox One) on faster hardware. This could result in higher average resolutions where a dynamic resolution solution is used, higher frame rates in games in which the frame rate is uncapped, anisotropic filtering (Xbox One X also does this) and Auto HDR (haven't seen this in action yet). There is some talk of Microsoft being able to "uncap" capped frame rates in some games, but we haven't seen it in action yet.

What did I miss? What did your reply have to do with mine?
DF said that GTA4 in that vid was running with the auto HDR btw.
 
They’re gonna focus on nothing other than brand name and almost straight up lies tbh. “We believe in generations” and so on. They’re beat on design, price, and bc. They have a bunch of cross gen games and not much else at this stage. Their big reveal for God of war was a logo and not even saying it was next gen exclusive.

the console will sell, they’re gonna keep quiet because all they can do is hurt their image.

I agree, I'm saying that the reason we aren't seeing literally anything from Sony is intentional.

They've already lost the BC race, with a smaller library of games to emulate and lower targeted spec for the games to max out. Hitman being 1440p/60fps in the Paris level, assuming they hit that, would be impressive but they can never reach beyond that. Meanwhile XsX is getting the same 60fps but at 4k.

The lower power of the PS5, in general, will mean it will always be second best for multiplatform games. Of course PC is still King so it's more like third best, but yeah.

Their "next gen" games are all actually cross-gen or remakes of older.

And the device itself is hideous and easily the most needlessly massive in the history of home consoles.

All in all, Sony are avoiding showing us anything at all because they have a worse product. In the end it won't matter as it will vastly outsell Xbox, so why bother showing anything?

The YouTube video was not in HDR, hence the "we have not seen it in action." Do you have an HDR version of the video?

So you disbelieve Richard when he says GTA4 was running with auto-HDR?
 

Spokker

Member
So you disbelieve Richard when he says GTA4 was running with auto-HDR?
No, I believe it's running with auto-HDR. But I cannot see the results for myself to see how it looks.

The video is in 4K/60 FPS, so the video can demonstrate resolution and frame rate, but it cannot demonstrate HDR. If they upload a clip of GTA IV in HDR, I can watch it on my TV in HDR. They have done it before to showcase HDR on PS4 Pro.

All in all, Sony are avoiding showing us anything at all because they have a worse product. In the end it won't matter as it will vastly outsell Xbox, so why bother showing anything?
The PS5 is the Joe Biden of game consoles?
 
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No, I believe it's running with auto-HDR. But I cannot see the results for myself to see how it looks.

The video is in 4K/60 FPS, so the video can demonstrate resolution and frame rate, but it cannot demonstrate HDR. If they upload a clip of GTA IV in HDR, I can watch it on my TV in HDR. They have done it before to showcase HDR on PS4 Pro.

I don't think auto-HDR is a mystery, many TVs do it these days too. IMO it's not an amazing addition, more a bullet point note, and would perhaps even disable it.

Don’t forget Sony is Japanese, and during WW2 Japan teamed up with Hitler

seriously-side-eye.gif
 
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MrFunSocks

Banned
The YouTube video was not in HDR, hence the "we have not seen it in action." Do you have an HDR version of the video?
I don’t, but we know it works. I’m assuming he would have said it doesn’t work very well if it didn’t. He even said it’s not enabled for titles where it doesn’t work well.
 

pyrocro

Member
The PS4 and the PS4 Pro, as well as the Xbox One and Xbox One X, speak the same respective languages. A PS4 Pro is a PS4. Higher clock speeds generally become a problem when a game's logic is tied to clock speed. For example, some older PC games can run too quickly on more modern hardware. It's also a problem when a game's animations are tied to frame rate, and a higher frame rate would break them. Think of the old PS1 and PS2 Final Fantasy games. FFX runs at 30 FPS even on Steam.

More modern games don't really have this problem as they avoid these programming methods and design flaws. I only know of 3 games that fail to run properly on PS4 Pro's boost mode (all 3 are non-AAA games), and the problems they exhibit are minor. The PS4 Pro doesn't need a compatibility mode to run the vast, vast majority of the PS4's library. That whole thing of disabling boost mode by default was a CYA move.

The Xbox Series Whatever also runs Xbox One games natively. It doesn't emulate them. It doesn't have a system-on-chip solution. It just runs them. The non-patched games can be improved at a system level similar to how you can toggle settings in your GPU's settings application, like forcing vsync or anisoptropic filtering (Xbox One X also did this). It's a very good feature but it's not like some kind of engineering feat Microsoft pulled off.

In other words, the Xbox One and the Xbox Series S/X speak the same general language, but the Series S\X not only speaks it more quickly but has a fuller vocabulary. Sure, it's "backwards compatible" but not in the same way the PS2 was backwards compatible with PS1 games (system on chip) or how the Xbox 360 was backwards compatible with some Xbox games (emulation).
You have the overall concepts correct but almost everything you saying is wrong.


Xbox one games run in a container, on a custom Hypervisor which is why Microsoft can say with greater confidence than sony that a larger percentage of their games will be compatible.
It's impressive because Ms has been planning and building this since before the start of this current generation.

It's execution time for MS and their backward compatibility initiative and it has given them a competitive edge against sony and all others.
What, to a large extent got Windows in the "dance" is the user's ability to run Dos programs, windows 98, windows me , windows 2000 etc... on the latest windows.(backward compatibility)

They have effectively implemented this ideology in their console business.

The execution is different because they have control over the hardware, so they made sure the graphics hardware could mimic the previous hardware in terms of the execution path.(same as PS5 I believe)

but there is some level of significant emulation going on for everything else even if its a recompiler of some sort.

There is a reason why no one else is doing it to the same extent as MS(the largest software company in the world) and its not because it low-hanging fruit as your post is suggesting.

Consoles games frequently have chunks of their code designed to target specific hardware features.

how is it Xbox one S game run flawlessly on Xbox one X hardware?
Xbox one X memory designed is completely different for key features on the one S and to get any kind of performance out of the one S you have to hyper-target its strengths meaning lots of architectural specific code, however, I'm yet to hear of the one X being incompatible with Xbox one S games.

all of the consoles being X86 and have similar OS is not enough for backward compatibility to work.
 
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Spokker

Member
You have the overall concepts correct but almost everything you saying is wrong.

Xbox one games run in a container, on a custom Hypervisor which is why Microsoft can say with greater confidence than sony that a larger percentage of their games will be compatible.
It's impressive because Ms has been planning and building this since before the start of this current generation.
I know about the hypervisor thing. It's been in used since the 360 days. But Microsoft's marketing itself uses "natively." They even go as far to say the following:


Backwards compatible games run natively on the Xbox Series X hardware, running with the full power of the CPU, GPU and the SSD. No boost mode, no downclocking, the full power of the Xbox Series X for each and every backward compatible game.

True Xbox Series X games will run in a virtual machine too. That probably won't change. Are we going to say it's emulating itself? No.
 

pyrocro

Member
I know about the hypervisor thing. It's been in used since the 360 days. But Microsoft's marketing itself uses "natively." They even go as far to say the following:




True Xbox Series X games will run in a virtual machine too. That probably won't change. Are we going to say it's emulating itself? No.
VM = Virtual Machine = Emulated Device

you don't seem to understand the configuration and its purpose.
it will run on your series X/S all their cloud configuration, at what point are you willing to say the environment the console game is running in is not emulated.

So YES it is Emulating the environment it's in itself.
its as though the first level of inception was still real life just abstracted.
2vtkfa.jpg
 
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YCoCg

Member
I don't think auto-HDR is a mystery, many TVs do it these days too. IMO it's not an amazing addition, more a bullet point note,
Console based auto HDR will be vastly superior to what your TV can produce as the console will be using the source and be able to expand the highlights and lows BEFORE it gets compressed into an 8bit/rec.709 range.

Gears 5 is often cited as one of the best HDR games on the One X and majority of that was done with AI HDR.
 
Looking good and none of those games has even been patched yet. Hoping for a 60 FPS 4K Horizon mode. I also wonder how well games like Assassin's Creed Unity and Anthem run on the Series X . Nice to read too that the system seems really quiet when running.

If only MS actually had some next-gen games to show it off :(
 

betrayal

Banned
I dont know...this focus on backwards compatibility, fast switching and SSD is just stupid for a next gen console. This applies to the Xbox Series X as well as the PS5. At the end of the day it's all about the games, everything else is just features that are Nice-To-Have, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter. This hardcore marketing of these features that are unimportant for many is questionable.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Console based auto HDR will be vastly superior to what your TV can produce as the console will be using the source and be able to expand the highlights and lows BEFORE it gets compressed into an 8bit/rec.709 range.

Gears 5 is often cited as one of the best HDR games on the One X and majority of that was done with AI HDR.

It would interesting to read more about how it is integrated in the game’s rendering pipeline. If the game is not already rendering in HDR and tone mapping at the end with the console taking data pre-tone mapping... then the console is doing HDR in a similar way to what the TV could be doing just throwing more HW resources at it.
 

cudiye

Member
I dont know...this focus on backwards compatibility, fast switching and SSD is just stupid for a next gen console. This applies to the Xbox Series X as well as the PS5. At the end of the day it's all about the games, everything else is just features that are Nice-To-Have, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter. This hardcore marketing of these features that are unimportant for many is questionable.

who do you think you are expecting new games to be its selling point for a new console? Seesh
 
D

Deleted member 775630

Unconfirmed Member
Has there been any talk of transfer speeds?
Yes. This is for Assassins Creed Origins
EjATzwRWoAEFXVS


I dont know...this focus on backwards compatibility, fast switching and SSD is just stupid for a next gen console. This applies to the Xbox Series X as well as the PS5. At the end of the day it's all about the games, everything else is just features that are Nice-To-Have, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter. This hardcore marketing of these features that are unimportant for many is questionable.
Maybe for you, but BC is a big part of the Xbox ecosystem, where they want you to be able to bring your library with you. I'm pretty sure that next-gen I'll be playing a lot of games from this gen and even before. Good games, don't lose their enjoyable gameplay.
 
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