S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Move along bro?
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[Digital Foundry] DF Direct Weekly #86: Is Xbox Series S Holding Back Gaming? Forza Horizon 5, Sackboy, Halo Patches
- Thread starter Lunatic_Gamer
- Start date
- Opinion Analysis
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Yeah, just search for the GDC survey of developers opinions on the pro consoles.
We're looking for specific words: "Holding back"
Being annoyed of having to create an additional set of optimizations for Series S =/= holding the generation back, that's holding "Developers" back.
Devs don't like having 2 different specs to aim at regardless if the new spec is higher.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
A $399 diskless XSX most definitely would of done this.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
And would have been a better option for Xbox gamers.
Little Chicken
Member
A lot of people speaking on behalf of "developers" in here.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
so once the pro consoles launch, are we allowed to say the current consoles suck and are holding back games?
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Developers have been voicing issues with xss.
DF aren't developers and claim no issues with xss.
Can't make this shit up.
MarkMe2525
Member
DarkMage619
$MSFT
And if they couldn't make enough of those more expensive consoles? What if they wanted to sell an inexpensive system to casuals and kids? The XSS is 50% of their sold systems and is the system people new to the Xbox ecosystem bought. XSS is the most popular Xbox in Japan. A $400 XSX would not have had any of that success.
Lots of developers have had no issues with the XSS too. DF certainly knows more about game development than video game forum dwellers.
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Killer8
Member
It's not going to hold anything back. CPU is almost as good as the flagship console and developers can easily downgrade visuals. Not ideal, but no one should be expecting miracles from a $299 box.
The Matrix demo is the most next-gen thing around and looks pretty shit on Series S - but it runs.
The Matrix demo is the most next-gen thing around and looks pretty shit on Series S - but it runs.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Name one console, or gaming platform of any kind for that matter, that at least some developers haven't voiced issues with.
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Forza Horizon 5, Gears 5
What is the point in claiming that Series S is bottleneck when you as a developer didn't even try to use all resources that are available to you to optimise your game on that platform?
Does any game use SFS? Nope. DirectStorage? Probably no.
Of course, if you try to develop your game in "old ways" and dumping everything onto RAM, you will hit a wall because you have less RAM available to you as on Xbox One X. But that's why Sampler Feedback Streaming exists.
And yes, I know that optimisation of your game costs money. But please, at least pull all water from well when you claim that it is dry.
It's like in good PS3 days. When developers just said that PS3 Cell is crap and that was it.
Does any game use SFS? Nope. DirectStorage? Probably no.
Of course, if you try to develop your game in "old ways" and dumping everything onto RAM, you will hit a wall because you have less RAM available to you as on Xbox One X. But that's why Sampler Feedback Streaming exists.
And yes, I know that optimisation of your game costs money. But please, at least pull all water from well when you claim that it is dry.
It's like in good PS3 days. When developers just said that PS3 Cell is crap and that was it.
Negotiator
Member
XSS would have been a bottleneck if we still didn't have cross-gen games in 2022.
Devs still make PS4/XB1 games, so...
Devs still make PS4/XB1 games, so...
Negotiator101
Member
Edgelord79
Gold Member
I only like experts like Digital Foundry when it conforms with my opinion.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
PS5
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Huh? They would make the $399 option instead and it would sell better.
There would be no underpriced bundle options like xss has AVAILABLE everywhere for a year.
DF doesn't site any sources for the claims they are making.
Yet...developers have stated the opposite of what the non developers DF has claimed
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DarkMage619
$MSFT
You seem to forget the SOC in the XSX is larger, more expensive, and difficult to manufacture. MS wanted to sell more consoles and another version of the XSX would not give them more customers. The XSX is already more expensive and difficult to find than the XSS. The XSS is a success and MS knew much more than forum people when it came their business strategy. They wanted to expand their business not limit it to the hardcore.Huh? They would make the $399 option instead and it would sell better.
There would be no underpriced bundle options like xss has everywhere for a year.
DF doesn't site any sources for the claims they are making.
Yet...developers have stated the opposite of what the non developers DF has claimed
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Development would go to the XSX diskless instead of xss.
Two XSX options would still make it easier for people to get a Xbox.
The difference is...they wouldn't be sitting on shelves everywhere like xss so they can save resources.
End of discussion
DarkMage619
$MSFT
The XSS is a console for gamers not developers. It is a lower powered, affordable current generation game console. Developers will learn ways to make games on the system like they have on all others. There are features the developers haven't even used yet. I prefer game companies focus on their customers primarily. The part about being on store shelves is silly. There are Nintendo Switches on shelves right now too. You conclude that they aren't selling right? End of discussion indeed.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Microsoft would save more money buy not worrying about wasting manufacturing costs on a product that not only sits on shelves but has a reduced price/sales.*cough* unlike the XSX and what a $399 XSX option would do.
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ReBurn
Gold Member
Sounds like they made a stupid decision, then. They're kneecapping themselves on PS5 and Series X as well as the majority of PC rigs if they're only doing ray-traced lighting. That's lower-res, lower framerate territory on the most common setups these days. Hard to say Series S is the thing that's hurting them. Sounds like they're shooting themselves in the foot.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
“The conversations can be very contentious,” Cerny said. “I actively seek out the people who will have strong opinions, who clearly lay out all the issues they’re having with the hardware , so that we can get busy thinking about how we can address those in the future.”
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Seek as if they don't exist.
Lmao
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Microsoft Xbox Series S 512GB Video Game Console - White for sale online | eBay
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Little Chicken
Member
I can think of one recent instance where there were, by an employee of Bossa Studios, whose games look like this:
Digital Foundry, who have a proven track record of insider knowledge and correspondence with large studios and publishers, said they've spoken to developers in the actual video, and their conclusion is that the Series S isn't an issue and isn't holding back game development.
I hope you're okay.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
PS5 Developers Reportedly Struggling With Game Development On Hardware
According to recent rumors and tech speculations, third-party developers may be having a hard time developing games on the PlayStation 5.
screenrant.com
PS5 3rd Party Devs Reportedly Finding Hardware Troublesome, “Fake 4K” May be Common
According to a new set of rumors, early 3rd-party PS5 titles may be "disappointing" compared to their Xbox Series X counterparts.
wccftech.com
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DarkMage619
$MSFT
The the $399 XSX would not be on the shelves because they would not be able to make enough due to the chip shortage. It was the same problem Sony had earlier. Thankfully MS followed their own plan and are far more successful this generation. More options for gamers and higher sales was the whole point. A $299 product is much easier to sell especially to the audience of casual gamers and kids.
MarkMe2525
Member
I wonder how far back the goalposts will be moved this time.PS5 Developers Reportedly Struggling With Game Development On Hardware
According to recent rumors and tech speculations, third-party developers may be having a hard time developing games on the PlayStation 5.
PS5 3rd Party Devs Reportedly Finding Hardware Troublesome, “Fake 4K” May be Common
According to a new set of rumors, early 3rd-party PS5 titles may be "disappointing" compared to their Xbox Series X counterparts.
Edit: I don't think anyone can argue that the ps5 is not a great gaming machine, but to act like it has no faults is just silly. There is always a compromise when developing an affordable gaming console.
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Slicker than your average
Banned
2 year old articles lmao. You do realise ps5 won most of the comparisons in the first year etc?PS5 Developers Reportedly Struggling With Game Development On Hardware
According to recent rumors and tech speculations, third-party developers may be having a hard time developing games on the PlayStation 5.
PS5 3rd Party Devs Reportedly Finding Hardware Troublesome, “Fake 4K” May be Common
According to a new set of rumors, early 3rd-party PS5 titles may be "disappointing" compared to their Xbox Series X counterparts.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Don't shoot the messenger, SOULZ asked for articles and those are just a seconds google search away. Also, Dusk is not the only source cited in them.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Returnal Crashing on PS5: Developer states the issue lies within the PS5 platform
Returnal Crashing on PS5 reason seems to be an issue with the platform and not the game itself. Read on to know more about these issues.
www.republicworld.com
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
So you think the developers had no issues with the extra input lag? Returnal devs were happy with the random crashes?Hmm I don't see a DEVELOPER complaining about PS5 holding things back.
MarkMe2525
Member
But that's not what you were refuting.Hmm I don't see a DEVELOPER complaining about PS5 holding things back.
You said no developers has ever voiced any issue with the ps5. Again, changing the argument to fit your narrative. It was a silly position to take in the first place as you can always find at least one person complaining about any given thing.
bentanchorbolt
Banned
Friend of mine at a Gamestop in Canada just got 32 units of Series S delivered from Microsoft, says they well pretty well but not as good as Series X and PS5. Gamers that post on forums seems to dislike the Series S, everyone else seems to love it.
Weird.
Weird.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Links please
People were getting banned for posting these never found to be true rumors.
Yikes this is a whole new level of copium.
I answered you multiple times but you continue on your obvious astroturfing mission.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Tell me you didn't not only post this but actually read it before posting
MarkMe2525
Member
Again, changing the argument via ad homenim. That's literally all you have done throughout this whole thread.Tell me you didn't not only post this but actually read it before posting
Edit: What are you even trying to say? Also, "Didn't not" is a double negative.
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Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Watched the video. These guys are just pussyfooting around saying "yes, it is".
Probably because they dont want to rustle any feathers with MS. But to me, the fact that this is the second time they've brought up the Series S holding games back, it means they think it is. Regardless of how much they beat around the bush and make excuses.
Probably because they dont want to rustle any feathers with MS. But to me, the fact that this is the second time they've brought up the Series S holding games back, it means they think it is. Regardless of how much they beat around the bush and make excuses.
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Where? All along its been about what developers have said vs what DF has said.
Than this was said...
And I responded which of course yaw didn't like but have yet to refute my answer.
So exactly what argument am I the one who's changing or is English not your 1st language and we have a misunderstanding?
MarkMe2525
Member
Oh my, the lack of self awareness is concerning.
Right here, after your silly assertion is shot down, you change the argument.Returnal Crashing on PS5: Developer states the issue lies within the PS5 platform
Returnal Crashing on PS5 reason seems to be an issue with the platform and not the game itself. Read on to know more about these issues.
This is an exact representation of "moving the goalposts" aka "changing the argument" Which you would not have to do if you didnt make such unrealistic assertions.Hmm I don't see a DEVELOPER complaining about PS5 holding things back.
It's really comical that in response to being called out on such flimsy logic, you attack my grasp of the English language. All the while continuing to show a lack of comprehension of the arguments being put forth (even your own), and continuing to argue using a plethora of logical fallacies.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
He did not post a developer voicing a concern over the PS5.
You can continue to quote and repeat nonsense all you like.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Sure if you think Cerny is lying about trying to help developers with their issues, that the returnal devs don't have an issue with their game crashing because they never stated outright that they would like it not to crash, and that fighting game devs dont have an issue with the PS5 having more input lag than other platforms and that Sony have been working to fix it just because its a fun little challenge then yes you remain unrefuted.
MarkMe2525
Member
I'm trying hard not to keep reposting nonsense, but you keep putting me in situations were I have to keep repeating your own statements back to you.
Also, It would be very wise to maybe read the example provided before dismissing it.
Quoted from the article "Housemarque, the developer of Returnal has observed and understood these issues with Returnal gameplay" "Crashing: The game has been crashing constantly and the developers have stated that the issue lies within the platform and not the game. They have sent the report to Sony and hope the issue to be resolved through the next firmware update. "
Well look at that, a DEVELOPER who reported an "issue" with the PS5. Again, making a blanket statement such as no developer has ever voiced an issue with PS5 is just a dumb stance to take. You have to be be specific and thoughtful when trying to debate a point or you run the risk of looking ignorant or just dumb. Now I'm not saying you are ignorant or dumb, I'm just saying your comments in this thread just may paint you in that light.
In reality, I'm trying to help you from making the same mistake again.
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DarkMage619
$MSFT
You keep on believing the nonsense that XSS isn't successful and that it goal wasn't to broaden Xbox’s appeal to more gamers. The copium is hoping for failure when success has already been achieved. A digital XSX over the XSS would have been a mistake and I'm glad MS didn't make it.
JackMcGunns
Member
I mean someone did predict the goal posts would be moved, now they're asking for specific dates. How dare anyone suggest the "PerfectStation" would be anything less than perrrfect lol.
Speaking about "Can't make this shit up" You have people here stating that XSX games are being held back because of Series S, then listing GOWR and Horizon as examples of how well PS5 is doing without it
