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[Lunatic_Gamer]

There's been a lot of debate recently about whether Xbox Series S's limited performance is 'holding back' the other consoles from being everything that they can be - so Rich, John and Alex weigh in with their opinions based on developer discussions and two years' worth of gaming data accrued by the channel. Meanwhile, it's all about the patches as Forza Horizon, Sackboy PC and Halo Infinite receive important updates.

 

[feynoob]

I hope the industry fucking fix their games. Too much broken games

 

[Del_X]

If you want an audience to sell next gen games into after this upcoming recession, you need the Series S.

 

[Adam_802]

Spoiler: No

 

[onnextflix5]

Spoiler: No

Sponsored by Microsoft

 

[feynoob]

Sponsored by Microsoft

Which was paid by you.

Be honest, where is the rest of the money?

 

[ACESHIGH]

Switch 2 and steam deck will be the machines that hold back next gen. Switch 2 in particular as there's no way in hell it has as much CPU grunt and RAM as the deck.

Should have Xbox one like specs which is still great for a portable, and if you add system wide DLSS3...

 

[Kacho]

 

[Physiognomonics]

Not yet. What's holding back gaming is the lowest common denominator. Currently that's XB1.

 

[Alebrije]

Its starting and will be worse next year ..Series S was fine these years a nice console but now that developers abandoned Xbone One and X , series S is the less powerfull console.

Just tell me which game on Series X looks like GOWR, TLOU, Horizont?

 

[DaGwaphics]

Is this a repeat? Feel like I've seen this before. Generation will be over and this same discussion will be going on about how the XSS is going to limit games someday.

 

[Tommi84]

which game on Series X looks like GOWR, TLOU, Horizont?

Microsoft did what Sony Horizon't...

I'm sorry, I will leave the premise for now

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Spoiler: No

But that storage expansion and shut up.

 

[rofif]

Imo of course it does. The same reason I never wanted PRO consoles market segregation

 

[Jet Set Willy]

Its starting and will be worse next year ..Series S was fine these years a nice console but now that developers abandoned Xbone One and X , series S is the less powerfull console.

Just tell me which game on Series X looks like GOWR, TLOU, Horizont?

All those three games were designed to run on 2013 hardware, far weaker than the Series S, so not sure what your point is.

 

[adamsapple]

Spoiler: No

One and done.

Now commence the 12 page thread.

 

[RoboFu]

Again if the Xss or ps4 or Xbox 1 was holding anything back then all multiplatform games should all run at 60 fps ultra settings easily on the ps5 / XsX ..But they don’t.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

If Series S is holding back gaming, who knew.

If anything, I'd think Xbox One and PS4 would be the culprits since there's hardly any next gen only games.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Good to see FH5 supporting DLSS on PC, the MS studios don't always support that.

 

[TheGodfather07]

Remember when a 9tf ps5 was gonna hold things back? That was before the series s was revealed. Suddenly all that concern disappeared when a 4tf "Next gen" xbox was announced.

 

[Darsxx82]

Its starting and will be worse next year ..Series S was fine these years a nice console but now that developers abandoned Xbone One and X , series S is the less powerfull console.

Just tell me which game on Series X looks like GOWR, TLOU, Horizont?

LOL. And you mention as an example games with PS4 version and you say that XSS is limiting XSX??

As DF says, XSS has so far not been a limitation. When crossgen developments are completely abandoned, it will be time to draw conclusions. As they also say, we have the Matrix demo example as a demonstration that XSS can move UE5 with all its technology (including GI RT, shadow RT and reflection RT in an ultra detailed open world) in a state still to be improved in optimization.

That is, XSS has not yet shown its limit, this is a discussion for the future when you compare what XSS offers vs what XSX and PS5 can offer. Because it's going to be funny to see games on XSX and PS5 at 1080p and struggling to keep 30fps stable and people wanting to blame XSS for it

 

[Rudius]

Now it's last gen holding everything back. Next year Series S will start to suck more.

 

[Arioco]

No, it's even worse, unfortunately the ones holding back gaming are still PS4 and One S, since SONY and MS refuse to let them go once and for all.

Maybe in a couple of years Series S will be holding back gaming, but until now games have been designed for far weaker machines than Series S, so....

 

[Stuart360]

The funny thing is if devs were making a game that was targeting 4k, or around 4k, on XSX and PS5, while targeting 1080p on XSS, the devs would actually have more horsepower to work with on XSS.
So no it wont hold back the gen.
Maybe when we get close to the end of the gen and devs are struggling to hit 1440p on XSX/PS5, well even then XSS wold be holding anythign back, it would just mean devs would have to target 720p and lower on XSS, something they may not want to do.

The only way the XSS could hold back games was if Phil mandated that XSS versions have to match framerate and settings of XSX, while hitting atleast 1080p on XSS. And thats something we know Phil hasnt mandated.
So yeah apart from concern trolling, XSS wont hold back games. Now that doesnt mean you wont get some devs moaning, but that doesnt mean anything about holding games back, and more about extra workload for them.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Biggest problem of Series S is the amount of memory available to developers (8GB).

At least developers on XB1 didn't have a specific memory constraint, only GPU. Here they have both. You can easily scale back things given a weaker GPU, but (depending of the game) it can be way harder to scale things back if you have less memory.

I think in many cases they'll simply remove features altogether like we have already seen in a few games missing RT on X1S.

 

[SlimySnake]

Lots to unpack here.

• John mentions feedback from devs stating issues with the memory limitations of the series s.
• Alex says its not holding back next gen atm because X1 and PS4 are holding back next gen, but eventually series s might.
• Richard brings up how the series s is cheap and is needed in the current economic climate. Sales are 50:50 in UK and Europe so it will be impossible to ignore it.
• They bring up the Matrix demo as proof that it wont hold back next gen gaming.
• Alex says that the lower memory pool of the series s will force the devs into optimizing the streaming aspects of their engine which is a good thing.
• Richard points out the miscalculation during the spec phase of the series s was likely them thinking that textures make up the most amount of memory usage but RT has proved that to be a false assumption.
• Alex brings up the software lumens as a fallback option for series s especially since Epic recently mentioned that they were able to halve the frametime budget of the original PS5 UE5 demo from 8 ms to 3.5 ms essentially doubling performance.

I am not a fan of how they all bent over backwards to defend this thing. Is it going to hold back gaming? Well if devs are telling you it will, why deny or make excuses for it? Who gives a shit that the price of a new console is too high? Thats how its always been. PS5 even with the price hike is still cheaper than the original 1995 $299 console adjusted for inflation. People struggling to put food on the table wont buy a $299 console or a $550 console., They are the ones who buy consoles at the end of the gen. Why are we bending over backwards for that audience all of a sudden? Even if they buy the $299 console, where the fuck would they get the money for a $70 game? Or even a $15 gamepass sub for a year? They are litera

They bring up how Coalition essentially optimized the series s version of the Matrix demo as a positive. Surely, the fact that the best MS studio had to be contracted to come help ship the Series S version is a bit of a concern. Will Coalition be sent to every studio to help optimize the series s version?

No mention of how according to their own counts the series s runs at resolutions significantly below 533p. Yes, it runs on the series s but at what cost? Are devs going to settle for that or target higher resolutions on the xsx thus limiting visual fidelity in favor of higher pixel counts. No comments there. Surely this is something that they can go to the devs with. Even if its off the record.

Expected better from DF especially since they mentioned they had feedback from the devs and then proceeded to completely ignore it.

 

[feynoob]

Is it going to hold back gaming? Well if devs are telling you it will, why deny or make excuses for it?

The same people who can't fix their games properly during launch?

 

[Iced Arcade]

Remember when a 9tf ps5 was gonna hold things back? That was before the series s was revealed. Suddenly all that concern disappeared when a 4tf "Next gen" xbox was announced.

Lol no

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Remember when a 9tf ps5 was gonna hold things back? That was before the series s was revealed. Suddenly all that concern disappeared when a 4tf "Next gen" xbox was announced.

Remember when 4tf Series S was gonna hold things back? That was before we knew cross gen games would be going on forever where almost every game gets an Xbox One and PS4 version in the year 2022. Suddenly, nobody brings up last gen consoles gimping games, but focus on Series S.

 

[feynoob]

Remember when 4tf Series S was gonna hold things back? That was before we knew cross gen games would be going on forever where almost every game gets an Xbox One and PS4 version in the year 2022. Suddenly, nobody brings up last gen consoles gimping games, but focus on Series S.

We went from ps3 to xbox one Og. Developers still managed to make games for these 2 systems.

This is just xss turn to be the villain of this gen.

 

[sainraja]

I generally ignore threads like these.....but this is getting a bit silly now I think. A game is only limited by the vision of the studios/publishers behind making the games. If they are designing a game that can run on [insert platforms here] then why shouldn't they release it on them? It is a decision they are making after all. They decide what systems they want to target and how many people they want playing.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Extreme damage control from them and people wonder why many don't trust them.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Remember when a 9tf ps5 was gonna hold things back? That was before the series s was revealed. Suddenly all that concern disappeared when a 4tf "Next gen" xbox was announced.

It's not 9tf's and this should never be said even jesting.

 

[Jennings]

There's been a lot of debate recently about whether Xbox Series S's limited performance is 'holding back' the other consoles from being everything that they can be - so Rich, John and Alex weigh in with their opinions based on developer discussions and two years' worth of gaming data accrued by the channel. Meanwhile, it's all about the patches as Forza Horizon, Sackboy PC and Halo Infinite receive important updates.

Series S did not hold back GoW Ragnarok from being a PS5 exclusive.

So no, it's not. Crossgen gonna crossgen, regardless of what platforms are available.

 

[NickFire]

• Alex says its not holding back next gen atm because X1 and PS4 are holding back next gen, but eventually series s might.

It is kind of crazy how much cover they both got from the Series S debates. While the enthusiasts debated how much it would hold new gen back, Jim and Phil were probably texting each other emoji's over the cross gen future they knew was coming.

 

[Midn1ght]

Good to see FH5 supporting DLSS on PC, the MS studios don't always support that.

Agree, hopefully it'll be mandatory from now on, hoping Starfield will have it.

Also great to hear the stutter was fixed in Sackboy, shouldn't have released in that state of course but it's always good to see Sony studios actually listening to feedback and fixing the problems. Kena and Stray devs, take note please.

 

[feynoob]

It is kind of crazy how much cover they both got from the Series S debates. While the enthusiasts debated how much it would hold new gen back, Jim and Phil were probably texting each other emoji's over the cross gen future they knew was coming.

Aside of cyberpunk2077, and HD, those system are still going strong in this gen.
GoW and horizon FW on ps4 is still impressive.

 

[reksveks]

It's nice not giving a fuck about graphics, back to persona

 

[SmokedMeat]

Man how fast and easy it apparently was to fix the stuttering on PC Sackboy.

There’s no excuse for allowing this type of shit to happen Sony. Make sure your game runs as it should before putting it up for sale.

 

[reksveks]

Agree, hopefully it'll be mandatory from now on, hoping Starfield will have it.

Also great to hear the stutter was fixed in Sackboy, shouldn't have released in that state of course but it's always good to see Sony studios actually listening to feedback and fixing the problems. Kena and Stray devs, take note please.

Apparently has RTX so assume it has DLSS.

It Looks Like Starfield May Have RTX Integration

One of Bethesda's employees may have accidentally revealed that Starfield is going to feature some highly advanced lighting features, such as RTX.

gamerant.com

Hopefully they don't skip it.

 

[reksveks]

GOWR, TLOU, Horizont

Those three games on ps4....

 

[darrylgorn]

I don't follow the console stuff too closely, but are devs still making games for PS4 and XBOX1?

Seems that is really the problem, especially since we are two years into the following generation.

 

[Hugare]

Lots to unpack here.

• John mentions feedback from devs stating issues with the memory limitations of the series s.
• Alex says its not holding back next gen atm because X1 and PS4 are holding back next gen, but eventually series s might.
• Richard brings up how the series s is cheap and is needed in the current economic climate. Sales are 50:50 in UK and Europe so it will be impossible to ignore it.
• They bring up the Matrix demo as proof that it wont hold back next gen gaming.
• Alex says that the lower memory pool of the series s will force the devs into optimizing the streaming aspects of their engine which is a good thing.
• Richard points out the miscalculation during the spec phase of the series s was likely them thinking that textures make up the most amount of memory usage but RT has proved that to be a false assumption.
• Alex brings up the software lumens as a fallback option for series s especially since Epic recently mentioned that they were able to halve the frametime budget of the original PS5 UE5 demo from 8 ms to 3.5 ms essentially doubling performance.

I am not a fan of how they all bent over backwards to defend this thing. Is it going to hold back gaming? Well if devs are telling you it will, why deny or make excuses for it? Who gives a shit that the price of a new console is too high? Thats how its always been. PS5 even with the price hike is still cheaper than the original 1995 $299 console adjusted for inflation. People struggling to put food on the table wont buy a $299 console or a $550 console., They are the ones who buy consoles at the end of the gen. Why are we bending over backwards for that audience all of a sudden? Even if they buy the $299 console, where the fuck would they get the money for a $70 game? Or even a $15 gamepass sub for a year? They are litera

They bring up how Coalition essentially optimized the series s version of the Matrix demo as a positive. Surely, the fact that the best MS studio had to be contracted to come help ship the Series S version is a bit of a concern. Will Coalition be sent to every studio to help optimize the series s version?

No mention of how according to their own counts the series s runs at resolutions significantly below 533p. Yes, it runs on the series s but at what cost? Are devs going to settle for that or target higher resolutions on the xsx thus limiting visual fidelity in favor of higher pixel counts. No comments there. Surely this is something that they can go to the devs with. Even if its off the record.

Expected better from DF especially since they mentioned they had feedback from the devs and then proceeded to completely ignore it.

Great post. Came here to say the same.

"Its not holding back because we are still in crossgen territory" is such a non answer.

Well even at crossgen phase we have games such as Metro Exodus that makes the Series S run at SNES levels of resolution

"We will have to wait and see". Sure. But the writting is on the wall and has been since Day One.

 

[LordCBH]

Could the series s hold stuff back? Maybe? Probably won’t. But maybe.
Is it? No. Absolutely not.
What is? Last Gen hardware. Last Gen platforms need to be dropped or games will continue being held back because of them.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

I don't care if it holds back gaming. As a consumer, I'm likely not to notice anyway.

 

[feynoob]

Well this is Evil west on consoles. So much for xss holding the gen.

 

[Three]

Is this a repeat? Feel like I've seen this before. Generation will be over and this same discussion will be going on about how the XSS is going to limit games someday.

If the next gen has mostly crossgen games like xbox one games today then that's mostly still true.

 

[-Zelda-]

These guys and this channel are super cringe. If I had an Xbox console, these would be the last people I ever listen to.
Side note: I miss the OG and 360 Xboxes.

 

[JimboJones]

It's not 9tf's and this should never be said even jesting.

Geez does it really bother you that much?

 

[PharaoTutAnchAmun]

Man how fast and easy it apparently was to fix the stuttering on PC Sackboy.

There’s no excuse for allowing this type of shit to happen Sony. Make sure your game runs as it should before putting it up for sale.

When the realese date is set in stone and they are still some minor problems Sony studios fixed them mostley with a realeseday patch, problem solved