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DF: Tales of Arise PS5 vs Series X/S Tech Breakdown.

Leyasu

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Tales is a different game why would anything that happened with Ghostrunner tell you that Tales should have been 4K 60fps?
Oh okay I get you. If it had been an FPS, it would have been better out of the gate.
 

SenjutsuSage

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I said nothing about UE favoring PS5 I said the game setup favored PS5

You mean simpler and a lot less demanding? It doesn't favor PS5. It was horribly optimized on Series X. You don't get that kind of performance variation with the hardware in the two boxes.

In this game, however, the differences align more with what you would expect of the hardware specifications. That said, to be fair, they should be using dynamic resolution, or they should at least run at a lower resolution on PS5 to guarantee it can maintain its performance better. Higher resolutions, especially native 4K is always going to favor Series X with proper optimization because it's got a beefier GPU by quite a bit that is going to perform better at higher resolutions. PS5 draws equal in framerate or ever so slightly better with similar visual settings by running at a more manageable resolution befitting its GPU strength.

This game on the whole is doing quite a bit more than Ghostrunner is. It's got a whole lot more going on and not as straightforward a design approach. Everything Ghostrunner did as a game, including ray tracing 1/3rd reflections resolution of the game, is already done at a superior level in Doom Eternal, and Doom Eternal is just as fast paced, if not more so, with a lot more action going on at any given time, and yet performance was flawless on both consoles.

Ghostrunner's engine isn't id software's highly well optimized engine, so that could have been the culprit there, but I'm more willing to blame optimization failures. It stands as one of the more obvious examples of bad optimization on Xbox Series X this entire gen because even if the PS5 is to have an advantage - although the hardware differences suggest it should realistically never have any - only insufficient optimization on Series X could possibly result in the performance picture in that game. I don't doubt better optimization can be done on the PS5 version of this game without lowering resolution, but depending on their time, that or a dynamic res solution might be their best option.

But I reject the idea that the game setup of Ghostrunner favors PS5. Is not Doom Eternal doing nearly everything that game is doing and way more?
 
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onQ123

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You mean simpler and a lot less demanding? It doesn't favor PS5. It was horribly optimized on Series X. You don't get that kind of performance variation with the hardware in the two boxes.

In this game, however, the differences align more with what you would expect of the hardware specifications. That said, to be fair, they should be using dynamic resolution, or they should at least run at a lower resolution on PS5 to guarantee it can maintain its performance better. Higher resolutions, especially native 4K is always going to favor Series X with proper optimization because it's got a beefier GPU by quite a bit that is going to perform better at higher resolutions. PS5 draws equal in framerate or ever so slightly better with similar visual settings by running at a more manageable resolution befitting its GPU strength.

This game on the whole is doing quite a bit more than Ghostrunner is. It's got a whole lot more going on and not as straightforward a design approach. Everything Ghostrunner did as a game, including ray tracing 1/3rd reflections resolution of the game, is already done at a superior level in Doom Eternal, and Doom Eternal is just as fast paced, if not more so, with a lot more action going on at any given time, and yet performance was flawless on both consoles.

Ghostrunner's engine isn't id software's highly well optimized engine, so that could have been the culprit there, but I'm more willing to blame optimization failures. It stands as one of the more obvious examples of bad optimization on Xbox Series X this entire gen because even if the PS5 is to have an advantage - although the hardware differences suggest it should realistically never have any - only insufficient optimization on Series X could possibly result in the performance picture in that game. I don't doubt better optimization can be done on the PS5 version of this game without lowering resolution, but depending on their time, that or a dynamic res solution might be their best option.

Wait so if a game is better on Xbox Series X it lines up with the specs but if it's better on PS5 it's bad optimization? you say this even though PS5 has just as many advantages over Xbox Series X as Series X has over PS5.
 

DenchDeckard

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They should patch in drs but it is interesting to see the raw power difference in games when resolutions are set to the same on both consoles. Series x showing the grunt here. Vrr saves the graphics mode on Xbox and I would say they should patch in a 30 fps mode for those that want it on ps5 graphics mode.
 
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GametimeUK

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Results not accurate. Wait until PS5 gets its tools, you'll see.

To be fair I'm surprised Xbox is winning by such a wide margin with this one. I genuinely thought we'd see PS5 coming out more favourable than the Series X this gen in these head to heads.

Interesting to see the results when both consoles have matched settings.
 
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onQ123

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What is it then? Something to do with fp16 lol

I'm only teasing.

The game is native 4K 60fps with raytracing no other games tried this they always drop the resolution or FPS when adding raytracing so this game had more headroom to add raytracing at 4K 60fps . PS5 achieved it at 60fps while Xbox Series X was bottlenecked somewhere & dropped more. It could be ROPS or internal bandwidth.

The game is native 4K 60fps on Xbox Series X without raytracing so people saying the game isn't optimized is only saying that because PS5 run the game better with raytracing added on top of the native 4K 60fps & the 120fps mode. They don't have a point of reference that show them that Xbox Series X should be running this game better at native 4K 60fps with raytracing.
 

Topher

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You mean simpler and a lot less demanding? It doesn't favor PS5. It was horribly optimized on Series X. You don't get that kind of performance variation with the hardware in the two boxes.

In this game, however, the differences align more with what you would expect of the hardware specifications. That said, to be fair, they should be using dynamic resolution, or they should at least run at a lower resolution on PS5 to guarantee it can maintain its performance better. Higher resolutions, especially native 4K is always going to favor Series X with proper optimization because it's got a beefier GPU by quite a bit that is going to perform better at higher resolutions. PS5 draws equal in framerate or ever so slightly better with similar visual settings by running at a more manageable resolution befitting its GPU strength.

This game on the whole is doing quite a bit more than Ghostrunner is. It's got a whole lot more going on and not as straightforward a design approach. Everything Ghostrunner did as a game, including ray tracing 1/3rd reflections resolution of the game, is already done at a superior level in Doom Eternal, and Doom Eternal is just as fast paced, if not more so, with a lot more action going on at any given time, and yet performance was flawless on both consoles.

Ghostrunner's engine isn't id software's highly well optimized engine, so that could have been the culprit there, but I'm more willing to blame optimization failures. It stands as one of the more obvious examples of bad optimization on Xbox Series X this entire gen because even if the PS5 is to have an advantage - although the hardware differences suggest it should realistically never have any - only insufficient optimization on Series X could possibly result in the performance picture in that game. I don't doubt better optimization can be done on the PS5 version of this game without lowering resolution, but depending on their time, that or a dynamic res solution might be their best option.

But I reject the idea that the game setup of Ghostrunner favors PS5. Is not Doom Eternal doing nearly everything that game is doing and way more?

Both versions are suffering dips in frame rate in graphics mode then it shows yet again that both consoles would benefit from DRS. Those extra pixels are really just a waste on both consoles when the higher quality mode see significant dips in intense battles as the video states. Frankly, this game looks like it would have been fine with a single DRS mode and a constant 60fps frame rate. XSX would probably still get its nominal resolution bump from the PS5 version but the frame rates would be solid.


To be fair I'm surprised Xbox is winning by such a wide margin with this one. I genuinely thought we'd see PS5 coming out more favourable than the Series X this gen in these head to heads.

Really? PS5 has been the pleasant surprise to me so far. The differences in games are largely minimal. The XSX's advantage in higher DRS counts is clear, but not enough to matter to most, imo. Regardless, why would you expect PS5 to have better results than XSX?
 
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SenjutsuSage

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Wait so if a game is better on Xbox Series X it lines up with the specs but if it's better on PS5 it's bad optimization? you say this even though PS5 has just as many advantages over Xbox Series X as Series X has over PS5.

The Series X has a stronger GPU that should honestly never lose to the PS5 in any game. There's that big a difference between them. I know people haven't accepted that, but there is. 1024 more GPU cores is nothing small. The PS5 has no advantage other than its memory being fully symmetric, and Series X's memory design being asymmetric, 10GB at 560GB/s and 6GB @ 326GB/s, which is trickier and requires more work for Xbox optimization depending on the developer. And of course we know the PS5 has a superior/faster SSD.

But on every important hardware metric, CPU, GPU, memory bandwidth, hell even GPU hardware features such as Mesh Shaders, Machine Learning, Tier 2 VRS, Sampler Feedback Streaming and Ray Tracing, Series X is better on all of the above. PS5 is even missing some of what I just mentioned. It has no Machine Learning acceleration support, no Mesh Shaders support, does not have Tier 2 VRS, and doesn't have Sampler Feedback Streaming. 3 of the features listed haven't even been utilized yet, most important among them Sampler Feedback Streaming. Realistically things may tip further in Series X's favor as the gen progresses.

So I disagree again. The PS5 does not have just as many advantages over Series X as Series X has over PS5. The PS5's GPU clock speed can't make up for the difference between the two GPUs. It just can't. We've seen this on PC for many years now. The stronger, more powerful GPUs tend to also have lower core clock speeds than weaker GPU, but make up for it with larger GPUs with many more cores and higher memory bandwidth. The RDNA 2 line kinda flipped that on its head to a degree I think due to their amazing efficiency, but the fact still stands for PS5 and Series X. In the kinds of titles we buy these premium consoles for in the first place, Series X has the hardware advantage in all the areas that matter the most to performance. And while I won't say it's a huge difference, having a higher clocked CPU is more important than having a higher clocked GPU. As games start being more designed to hammer at the newer, more advanced CPUs, that's likely to put more pressure on the PS5 GPU to maintain its highest clock speed.

Short version. The console that has clearly the more powerful hardware is expected to always outperform the console with the weaker hardware. Series X can always be made to match or exceed PS5. The same is absolutely not true in the reverse, and that's because the PS5 has weaker (not the same as saying weak) hardware.
 

onQ123

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The Series X has a stronger GPU that should honestly never lose to the PS5 in any game. There's that big a difference between them. I know people haven't accepted that, but there is. 1024 more GPU cores is nothing small. The PS5 has no advantage other than its memory being fully symmetric, and Series X's memory design being asymmetric, 10GB at 560GB/s and 6GB @ 326GB/s, which is trickier and requires more work for Xbox optimization depending on the developer. And of course we know the PS5 has a superior/faster SSD.

But on every important hardware metric, CPU, GPU, memory bandwidth, hell even GPU hardware features such as Mesh Shaders, Machine Learning, Tier 2 VRS, Sampler Feedback Streaming and Ray Tracing, Series X is better on all of the above. PS5 is even missing some of what I just mentioned. It has no Machine Learning acceleration support, no Mesh Shaders support, does not have Tier 2 VRS, and doesn't have Sampler Feedback Streaming. 3 of the features listed haven't even been utilized yet, most important among them Sampler Feedback Streaming. Realistically things may tip further in Series X's favor as the gen progresses.

So I disagree again. The PS5 does not have just as many advantages over Series X as Series X has over PS5. The PS5's GPU clock speed can't make up for the difference between the two GPUs. It just can't. We've seen this on PC for many years now. The stronger, more powerful GPUs tend to also have lower core clock speeds than weaker GPU, but make up for it with larger GPUs with many more cores and higher memory bandwidth. The RDNA 2 line kinda flipped that on its head to a degree I think due to their amazing efficiency, but the fact still stands for PS5 and Series X. In the kinds of titles we buy these premium consoles for in the first place, Series X has the hardware advantage in all the areas that matter the most to performance. And while I won't say it's a huge difference, having a higher clocked CPU is more important than having a higher clocked GPU. As games start being more designed to hammer at the newer, more advanced CPUs, that's likely to put more pressure on the PS5 GPU to maintain its highest clock speed.

Short version. The console that has clearly the more powerful hardware is expected to always outperform the console with the weaker hardware. Series X can always be made to match or exceed PS5. The same is absolutely not true in the reverse, and that's because the PS5 has weaker (not the same as saying weak) hardware.
Go look at the specs
 
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GametimeUK

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Really? PS5 has been the pleasant surprise to me so far. The differences in games are largely minimal. The XSX's advantage in higher DRS counts is clear, but not enough to matter to most, imo. Regardless, why would you expect PS5 to have better results than XSX?
Because from my memory and especially earlier in the gen the PS5 always seemed to have the better performance. Some games such as Dirt 5 were especially bad on Series X. Do you remember the whole "Xbox needs its tools" scenario? I just PS5 being on top would be a trend that continued.
 

DarkMage619

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SMH if that's how you read it.


The Medium didn't have raytracing when it was 1st released on Xbox Series X either. Also The Medium has a higher resolution on PS5.


No one said that only PS5 could do 4K 60fps with raytracing , People tried to claim that Xbox Series X didn't receive optimization & I pointed out that this was the 1st time someone even tried native 4K 60fps with raytracing on these consoles.
Can you prove that the Xbox received the same optimization? People claimed it was a lack of optimization because no one believes Ghostrunner of all games has maxed out the XSX so all you can get is shoddy performance relative to the PS5. Same is true here no one believes that the PS5 is just incapable of running this game more smoothly. The only thing that holds these games back is the devs either putting in the time to make it work or not. It is folly to think that at this early stage in the generation we've reached some sort of plateau in these systems' capabilities.
 
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OmegaSupreme

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I don't think that the Ghostrunner thread is eating anyone up.

But you made a lot claims in that thread regarding higher clocks, ROPs, one system being bottlenecked and that UE just favored the PS5. What happened?
Oh that thread is eating the hell out of some people. That game is nothing yet it's a huge thread.
 
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Topher

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Because from my memory and especially earlier in the gen the PS5 always seemed to have the better performance. Some games such as Dirt 5 were especially bad on Series X. Do you remember the whole "Xbox needs its tools" scenario? I just PS5 being on top would be a trend that continued.

I gotcha. Dirt 5 was an odd one, for sure. Definitely did not start out great for XSX.
 
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onQ123

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Can you prove that the Xbox received the same optimization? People claimed it was a lack of optimization because no one believes Ghostrunner of all games has maxed out the XSX so all you can get is shoddy performance relative to the PS5. Same is true here no one believes that the PS5 is just incapable of running this game more smoothly. The only thing that holds these games back is the devs either putting in the time to make it work or not. It is folly to think that at this early stage in the generation we've reached some sort of plateau in these systems' capabilities.

You're really thick headed SMH.

Can you prove that PS5 received extra optimization?
 

SenjutsuSage

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Go look at the specs

I have, in obsessive detail.

You pointing to the PS5's higher pixel fillrate due to its clock speed, correct? What difference has that made in pixel pushing performance between the two consoles, basically resolution? Know why PS5 much more often than not loses that fight? Because of over 100GB/s less memory bandwidth, 448GB/s vs 560GB/s, 1024 less GPU cores, 2304 vs 3328, 64 less Texture Mapping Units, 144 to the Series X's 208.


That amounts to a 44% Series X GPU advantage across 3 very important areas alone.

1 - number of dual compute units
2 - number of shader cores
3 - number of texture mapping units

and finally we know how important memory bandwidth is.

25% more memory bandwidth with which to feed the bigger GPU.

Now cerny pointed out how by going with a higher GPU clock on PS5 it raises multiple boats, include cache etc and all that stuff. How fast are the cache bandwidths on each console? We literally have no idea, but let's assume PS5 ends up with higher cache bandwidth. It likely still doesn't outweigh the benefits that come with having a plain more powerful GPU.

I think what we are seeing in this game is what would happen much more often if devs targeted native 4K on both consoles without the help of dynamic resolution. Again, I'm not saying the PS5 is weak. It's far from it, and PS5 exclusive devs will work magic. I'm only stating that the PS5 has weaker hardware than Xbox Series X, and nothing will change that. And I don't pretend to claim that the PS5 and Series X can't run games at native 4K identically. Depending on the game and what decisions the developer will have made, they can just pursue parity between the two, something I have no issue with depending on the game and situation.
 

SenjutsuSage

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You're really thick headed SMH.

Can you prove that PS5 received extra optimization?

But we CAN prove Series X needs more CAREFUL optimization than PS5. How do we know? Simple. The memory setups. PS5 has a flat 448GB/s across 16GB. Anywhere you pull data from the GPU will achieve maximum bandwidth performance. That's not the case for Series X.

Series X has an asymmetric memory setup. 10GB operates at 560GB/s and the remaining 6GB operates at 326GB/s. If the GPU ends up having to consume from the slower pool, it will tank performance. I'm almost certain that's what's occurring with Ghostrunner. Series X using that slower 326GB/s portion for its GPU isn't an option. That basically starves the larger GPU of the bandwidth it needs to benefit from its hardware specification.
 

onQ123

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I have, in obsessive detail.

You pointing to the PS5's higher pixel fillrate due to its clock speed, correct? What difference has that made in pixel pushing performance between the two consoles, basically resolution? Know why PS5 much more often than not loses that fight? Because of over 100GB/s less memory bandwidth, 448GB/s vs 560GB/s, 1024 less GPU cores, 2304 vs 3328, 64 less Texture Mapping Units, 144 to the Series X's 208.


That amounts to a 44% Series X GPU advantage across 3 very important areas alone.

1 - number of dual compute units
2 - number of shader cores
3 - number of texture mapping units

and finally we know how important memory bandwidth is.

25% more memory bandwidth with which to feed the bigger GPU.

Now cerny pointed out how by going with a higher GPU clock on PS5 it raises multiple boats, include cache etc and all that stuff. How fast are the cache bandwidths on each console? We literally have no idea, but let's assume PS5 ends up with higher cache bandwidth. It likely still doesn't outweigh the benefits that come with having a plain more powerful GPU.

I think what we are seeing in this game is what would happen much more often if devs targeted native 4K on both consoles without the help of dynamic resolution. Again, I'm not saying the PS5 is weak. It's far from it, and PS5 exclusive devs will work magic. I'm only stating that the PS5 has weaker hardware than Xbox Series X, and nothing will change that. And I don't pretend to claim that the PS5 and Series X can't run games at native 4K identically. Depending on the game and what decisions the developer will have made, they can just pursue parity between the two, something I have no issue with depending on the game and situation.
Well we have the only 8k 60fps game on PS5 & the only native 4k 60fps game with Ray tracing hitting that 60fps more on PS5. So it's useful in some cases.
 

DarkMage619

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You're really thick headed SMH.

Can you prove that PS5 received extra optimization?
Just as much as you can prove the PS5's superior architecture allows a performance advantage. You stubbornly cling to a hardware advantage when it's clear software improvements are in order yet you call me thick headed? Bad comedy. The idea that software optimization can't fix these issues only better hardware could sounds like the beginning of a bad joke.
 

DarkMage619

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Well we have the only 8k 60fps game on PS5 & the only native 4k 60fps game with Ray tracing hitting that 60fps more on PS5. So it's useful in some cases.
We know for a fact the PS5 game received more development time seeing how it came out a year after the Xbox version which for all intents and purposes was a Switch port. The most useful thing was year of focused development.
 
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MrFunSocks

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Because from my memory and especially earlier in the gen the PS5 always seemed to have the better performance. Some games such as Dirt 5 were especially bad on Series X. Do you remember the whole "Xbox needs its tools" scenario? I just PS5 being on top would be a trend that continued.
There were numerous threads from "insiders" before release saying that the Xbox dev kits were dropping in HOT and their SDKs were not feature complete and unfinished due to MS waiting for the full RDNA2 feature set to be finalized. We now know that was the truth, as the launch games were all rough, but since that first batch of games almost every single head to head has come out favouring the xbox. It's not surprising either - the Xbox has 2TF more power along with 10GB of higher bandwidth memory and some more hardware accelerated features. The way certain people carried on back at launch was embarrassing and only setting themselves up for ridicule and disappointment. The whole "another one" thing that they started has now come back to bite them in the arse big time because it's being used against them more often than not.

There's a reason most of sony's pre-release talk was about their magical SSD - because they knew that was where they had their main real clear advantage. That's fine, it's smart of them - don't draw attention to things you don't win in, draw attention to your strong points. Unfortunately for Sony, their faster SSD basically only equates to slightly faster load times in 99% of games because 99% of games are on PC and Xbox too.

By mid-end of this generation when everyone has their dev pipelines worked out and sorted, the likely scenario is games will just run at higher resolution on Xbox and will have faster loading on Playstation. There won't be major differences other than that. Everyone wins, both consoles are great and close in terms of their performance.
 
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Stuart360

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Guys, guys, i know i could just 'stay out of the thread if i dont like it' but is this what every comparison thread is going to become?, do you really want it to be like this?.
 
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But we CAN prove Series X needs more CAREFUL optimization than PS5. How do we know? Simple. The memory setups. PS5 has a flat 448GB/s across 16GB. Anywhere you pull data from the GPU will achieve maximum bandwidth performance. That's not the case for Series X.

Series X has an asymmetric memory setup. 10GB operates at 560GB/s and the remaining 6GB operates at 326GB/s. If the GPU ends up having to consume from the slower pool, it will tank performance. I'm almost certain that's what's occurring with Ghostrunner. Series X using that slower 326GB/s portion for its GPU isn't an option. That basically starves the larger GPU of the bandwidth it needs to benefit from its hardware specification.
I agree with everything you said. Why did MS go with the split memory pool set up I wonder? Simply to save on cost I suppose?
 
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There were numerous threads from "insiders" before release saying that the Xbox dev kits were dropping in HOT and their SDKs were not feature complete and unfinished due to MS waiting for the full RDNA2 feature set to be finalized. We now know that was the truth, as the launch games were all rough, but since that first batch of games almost every single head to head has come out favouring the xbox. It's not surprising either - the Xbox has 2TF more power along with 10GB of higher bandwidth memory and some more hardware accelerated features. The way certain people carried on back at launch was embarrassing and only setting themselves up for ridicule and disappointment. The whole "another one" thing that they started has now come back to bite them in the arse big time because it's being used against them more often than not.

There's a reason most of sony's pre-release talk was about their magical SSD - because they knew that was where they had their main real clear advantage. That's fine, it's smart of them - don't draw attention to things you don't win in, draw attention to your strong points. Unfortunately for Sony, their faster SSD basically only equates to slightly faster load times in 99% of games because 99% of games are on PC and Xbox too.

By mid-end of this generation when everyone has their dev pipelines worked out and sorted, the likely scenario is games will just run at higher resolution on Xbox and will have faster loading on Playstation. There won't be major differences other than that. Everyone wins, both consoles are great and close in terms of their performance.
As a ps5 owner I was cringing so hard at all the fanboys that were rubbing it in people's faces that the ps5 was coming out ahead in some of those initial games. They deserve to eat crow.
 
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Uncharted bunghole
As a ps5 owner I was cringing so hard at all the fanboys that were rubbing it in people's faces that the ps5 was coming out ahead in some of those initial games. They deserve to eat crow.

Also the ones that were hyping up massive differences between the two. And in the end the two ended up pretty close which is good news for people buying these systems.
 

Darsxx82

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Wait so if a game is better on Xbox Series X it lines up with the specs but if it's better on PS5 it's bad optimization? you say this even though PS5 has just as many advantages over Xbox Series X as Series X has over PS5.
No, it is clearly bad optimization when between the two consoles you see that one goes at 20+fps more than the other because "the differences" of hardware will do not give for that result.

Any proposal that tries to explain Ghostruner on "special PS5 hardware vantages" is absurd. And exactly the same can be said for those cases where XSX offers 20 + fps than PS5 in some game.

That said, there are cases and cases. The antecedents during this year have shown us very close results, but the trend has been to see a majority of comparisons "falling on the side" of the MS console. And within several of these cases there have been differences along with what we see in this case of Tales of Verseria, which of course is far from the absurdity seen in Ghostruner.
You're really thick headed SMH.

Can you prove that PS5 received extra optimization?
What can be proven is that XSX has not had the same optimization or work as PS5.
Tests? You have the results of hundreds of multiplatform games released this year and many of them also implementing RT and in which XSX is usually the "winner". Perhaps it is that you know many games where PS5 offers 20+ fps on average than XSX and nobody has found out and hence your base 😅

P.S. And if you look at XSS and its shameful version it is not proof but a great indication of the work in the Xbox versions.
 

onQ123

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By the way we should get back on topic here if you want to talk about other games go to the other thread
 

MrFunSocks

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I agree with everything you said. Why did MS go with the split memory pool set up I wonder? Simply to save on cost I suppose?
Probably, but it would have been a thoroughly researched decision as well. Their OS reserves a certain amount of RAM that games cannot access, and that RAM doesn't need to be super fast. There is 13.5GB available to developers as per MS, meaning only 3.5GB of that is in the slower pool (since the remaining 2.5GB is taken from the slower pool). Most games aren't going to be using 10GB of RAM at once exclusively on the GPU, in which case there is no disadvantage to this asymmetric setup. The money saved on the slower RAM likely contributed to getting the faster than PS5 speed on the other 10GB of RAM too.
 
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Topher

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As a ps5 owner I was cringing so hard at all the fanboys that were rubbing it in people's faces that the ps5 was coming out ahead in some of those initial games. They deserve to eat crow.

Kinda silly to point fingers at those engaged in the console war. Let's not pretend like the "rubbing it in people's faces" was one-sided. There was plenty of chest-pounding prior to launch before even the first game was released.
 

SenjutsuSage

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I agree with everything you said. Why did MS go with the split memory pool set up I wonder? Simply to save on cost I suppose?

They confirmed that it was the only way they could manage a GPU at this size, have the extra memory bandwidth they needed to feed the GPU, and have something that they could ship.

The alternative to doing it this way was 20GB of RAM.

Series X RAM setup consists of 10 memory chips.

6 of those chips are 2GB chips, and 4 of them are 1GB chips for the total 16GB. It would have been forced to be 10 2GB chips. And series x definitely couldn't be sold for $500.

If not for those 1GB chips, the Series X would have been a 20GB 560GB/s beast, but then with the chip shortages we are seeing, combined with the costs of RAM, Series X as much of a beast as it would be, Microsoft would essentially be screwed. In such a scenario, while still important, Sampler Feedback Streaming wouldn't be quite as vital to the future of Series X. Still a big deal, mind you, due to the RAM savings, but Series X having the 10GB at 560GB/s 6GB at 326GB/s setup definitely makes it more of an imperative going forward to not see Series X's full potential hampered by the memory design.
 
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Green_Eyes

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What't up with this trend of Series X games becoming better than PS5 versions?
Kristen Wiig Dipshit GIF
 

SenjutsuSage

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That's the newer UE5 engine.

That doesn't favor Playstation 5 either. The idea it ever did was nonsense. The most demanding aspect of UE5 is its lumen lighting tech, which *drumroll* benefits from the more GPU compute you have. As to the nanite tech, which largely uses software rasterized triangles, that too utilizes what Epic calls hyper-optimized computer shaders. It could even be expanded in ways to support Mesh Shaders or Series X's Sampler Feedback Streaming. The coalition and other Xbox first parties are working with Epic specifically to help get certain elements of Unreal 5 updated to best support Series X and features they feel the engine should have, as are Sony developers likely doing the exact same.
 

MonarchJT

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The game is native 4K 60fps with raytracing no other games tried this they always drop the resolution or FPS when adding raytracing so this game had more headroom to add raytracing at 4K 60fps . PS5 achieved it at 60fps while Xbox Series X was bottlenecked somewhere & dropped more. It could be ROPS or internal bandwidth.

The game is native 4K 60fps on Xbox Series X without raytracing so people saying the game isn't optimized is only saying that because PS5 run the game better with raytracing added on top of the native 4K 60fps & the 120fps mode. They don't have a point of reference that show them that Xbox Series X should be running this game better at native 4K 60fps with raytracing.
man stop it there ghost runner is 100% not optimized on series x ....it's evident
 
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SplunkyMunkey

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That's not bad considering xsx and ps5 has pretty much identical resolution only a 10fps difference between them both.
 

Danjin44

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That's not bad considering xsx and ps5 has pretty much identical resolution only a 10fps difference between them both.


It decided Tales of Arise on PS5 is unplayable broken mess that needs put in to garbage, what in the FUCK were they thinking!?

/s
 

SenjutsuSage

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That's not bad considering xsx and ps5 has pretty much identical resolution only a 10fps difference between them both.

If you go by the different fps readings in the most demanding battle shown on the graphics mode for both systems, Series X is maintaining roughly a 46% framerate advantage. So a bit closer to about 18fps.

I got 56.2fps for Series X to 38.3 for PS5 in graphics mode. Rough averages based on the different fps readings during this battle. I also got the Series X's lowest fps counts of 42 and 43 fps factored in. Would have been a higher Series X average if I included the exploration bits, but I focused strictly on the most demanding battle I saw on both consoles, which was the one below. Series X looks like it can get away with being 60fps at native 4K, but PS5 at native 4K is better off being 30fps. Now unless they can optimize more for both to improve performance, the solution is simple. Lower graphics mode res a bit on Series X, so it stays 60fps more often, and do the same for PS5, but to a more serious degree.


 
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SenjutsuSage

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Well we have the only 8k 60fps game on PS5 & the only native 4k 60fps game with Ray tracing hitting that 60fps more on PS5. So it's useful in some cases.

Now you know full well the touryst launched a whole year later on PS5 with a completely rebuilt engine, made specifically for PS5, not a port of the PS4 title. Series X got an Xbox One X port on the older engine. Not the same circumstances for development, and despite the simplicity or unique nature of the touryst we know full well it isn't a more demanding game than a whole set titles that demonstrate a series x advantage. I would imagine if there was an advantage to be had, the PS5 would display it far more often in more demanding titles if it truly had 100% pixel pushing worth of an advantage over Series X. That's the difference between 8K and 6K. Do you actually believe that to be the case when weaker GPUs than what the Series X has can run the game's 8K at 60fps mode on PC? Clearly something doesn't add up about the touryst. And it's not like Series X has any performance dips, suggesting it has some headroom to go higher. Perhaps with more optimization it would also hit 8K. Not really a guess. Of course it would.

And as for ghostrunner, Doom Eternal runs its ray traced reflections at a higher resolution with respect to its native output, is just as fast, if not faster, with loads more action happening on screen at any given moment, but somehow manages to achieve way better, basically flawless, performance. So obviously we have an example of a game not too dissimilar in certain respects from ghostrunner, but doing a far better job on series x, suggesting the issue is with the dev's optimization on series x.
 

Riky

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No reason to get all defensive.

How do you know that, without side by side comparisons.
Not to mention not mentioning XBSX also drops in to the 30s in the frame graph.

How do I know? He shows and tells you.

Performance mode the Series X is locked 60fps and the PS5 drops, he tells you this and shows you.
Graphics mode the Series X is mostly 60fps the PS5 is rarely this, he shows you and tells you.
You may have one single shot where you believe the Series X for one frame goes to 39fps but notice you cut out the frame counter at the top......

Show me the one where Series X goes this low
 

Chukhopops

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If you paid attention, I was always talking about the tech side as to way PS5 outperform XBSX.

I never once used DF to support my reasoning.
Get your facts straight.
But you never questioned DF’s results in the thread where PS5 was winning, and you had a lot of posts where you could have done so. You just assumed it was correct because it was what you wanted to hear.
 

Riky

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But you never questioned DF’s results in the thread where PS5 was winning, and you had a lot of posts where you could have done so. You just assumed it was correct because it was what you wanted to hear.

You're talking to someone who has cut the framerate counter out of his screenshot in this very thread....
I wonder why, post the entire screen please.
 
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Elog

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Guys - the two consoles are very close in general but have different strengths and weaknesses. Various games play on these strengths and weaknesses and we get results where in one game XSX wins and in the next the PS5 wins. This can be down to unoptimized code but more often it is the actual hardware differences between the two that plays out.

Anyone claiming that one of these pieces of plastic with 100% certainty is better than the other one is simply wrong - the right answer is that it depends.

Just wait for CoD Vanguard Campaign benchmarks and BF2042 benchmarks and then we can start a similar discussion again. There is a fairly clear pattern for what graphics that give the PS5 an advantage and vice versa.
 
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DenchDeckard

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The game is native 4K 60fps with raytracing no other games tried this they always drop the resolution or FPS when adding raytracing so this game had more headroom to add raytracing at 4K 60fps . PS5 achieved it at 60fps while Xbox Series X was bottlenecked somewhere & dropped more. It could be ROPS or internal bandwidth.

The game is native 4K 60fps on Xbox Series X without raytracing so people saying the game isn't optimized is only saying that because PS5 run the game better with raytracing added on top of the native 4K 60fps & the 120fps mode. They don't have a point of reference that show them that Xbox Series X should be running this game better at native 4K 60fps with raytracing.

not as technically minded as you or many in here. I would have thought the fatter gpu with more CUs would be stronger at raytracing? Something just doesn’t add up with ghost runner, which we know is an outsourced console port by a small indie studio with 30 employees and they still outsourced the console version.