Leyasu
Banned
Oh okay I get you. If it had been an FPS, it would have been better out of the gate.Tales is a different game why would anything that happened with Ghostrunner tell you that Tales should have been 4K 60fps?
Oh okay I get you. If it had been an FPS, it would have been better out of the gate.Tales is a different game why would anything that happened with Ghostrunner tell you that Tales should have been 4K 60fps?
Oh okay I get you. If it had been an FPS, it would have been better out of the gate.
I said nothing about UE favoring PS5 I said the game setup favored PS5
You mean simpler and a lot less demanding? It doesn't favor PS5. It was horribly optimized on Series X. You don't get that kind of performance variation with the hardware in the two boxes.
In this game, however, the differences align more with what you would expect of the hardware specifications. That said, to be fair, they should be using dynamic resolution, or they should at least run at a lower resolution on PS5 to guarantee it can maintain its performance better. Higher resolutions, especially native 4K is always going to favor Series X with proper optimization because it's got a beefier GPU by quite a bit that is going to perform better at higher resolutions. PS5 draws equal in framerate or ever so slightly better with similar visual settings by running at a more manageable resolution befitting its GPU strength.
This game on the whole is doing quite a bit more than Ghostrunner is. It's got a whole lot more going on and not as straightforward a design approach. Everything Ghostrunner did as a game, including ray tracing 1/3rd reflections resolution of the game, is already done at a superior level in Doom Eternal, and Doom Eternal is just as fast paced, if not more so, with a lot more action going on at any given time, and yet performance was flawless on both consoles.
Ghostrunner's engine isn't id software's highly well optimized engine, so that could have been the culprit there, but I'm more willing to blame optimization failures. It stands as one of the more obvious examples of bad optimization on Xbox Series X this entire gen because even if the PS5 is to have an advantage - although the hardware differences suggest it should realistically never have any - only insufficient optimization on Series X could possibly result in the performance picture in that game. I don't doubt better optimization can be done on the PS5 version of this game without lowering resolution, but depending on their time, that or a dynamic res solution might be their best option.
What is it then? Something to do with fp16 lol
I'm only teasing.
You mean simpler and a lot less demanding? It doesn't favor PS5. It was horribly optimized on Series X. You don't get that kind of performance variation with the hardware in the two boxes.
In this game, however, the differences align more with what you would expect of the hardware specifications. That said, to be fair, they should be using dynamic resolution, or they should at least run at a lower resolution on PS5 to guarantee it can maintain its performance better. Higher resolutions, especially native 4K is always going to favor Series X with proper optimization because it's got a beefier GPU by quite a bit that is going to perform better at higher resolutions. PS5 draws equal in framerate or ever so slightly better with similar visual settings by running at a more manageable resolution befitting its GPU strength.
This game on the whole is doing quite a bit more than Ghostrunner is. It's got a whole lot more going on and not as straightforward a design approach. Everything Ghostrunner did as a game, including ray tracing 1/3rd reflections resolution of the game, is already done at a superior level in Doom Eternal, and Doom Eternal is just as fast paced, if not more so, with a lot more action going on at any given time, and yet performance was flawless on both consoles.
Ghostrunner's engine isn't id software's highly well optimized engine, so that could have been the culprit there, but I'm more willing to blame optimization failures. It stands as one of the more obvious examples of bad optimization on Xbox Series X this entire gen because even if the PS5 is to have an advantage - although the hardware differences suggest it should realistically never have any - only insufficient optimization on Series X could possibly result in the performance picture in that game. I don't doubt better optimization can be done on the PS5 version of this game without lowering resolution, but depending on their time, that or a dynamic res solution might be their best option.
But I reject the idea that the game setup of Ghostrunner favors PS5. Is not Doom Eternal doing nearly everything that game is doing and way more?
To be fair I'm surprised Xbox is winning by such a wide margin with this one. I genuinely thought we'd see PS5 coming out more favourable than the Series X this gen in these head to heads.
Wait so if a game is better on Xbox Series X it lines up with the specs but if it's better on PS5 it's bad optimization? you say this even though PS5 has just as many advantages over Xbox Series X as Series X has over PS5.
Go look at the specsThe Series X has a stronger GPU that should honestly never lose to the PS5 in any game. There's that big a difference between them. I know people haven't accepted that, but there is. 1024 more GPU cores is nothing small. The PS5 has no advantage other than its memory being fully symmetric, and Series X's memory design being asymmetric, 10GB at 560GB/s and 6GB @ 326GB/s, which is trickier and requires more work for Xbox optimization depending on the developer. And of course we know the PS5 has a superior/faster SSD.
But on every important hardware metric, CPU, GPU, memory bandwidth, hell even GPU hardware features such as Mesh Shaders, Machine Learning, Tier 2 VRS, Sampler Feedback Streaming and Ray Tracing, Series X is better on all of the above. PS5 is even missing some of what I just mentioned. It has no Machine Learning acceleration support, no Mesh Shaders support, does not have Tier 2 VRS, and doesn't have Sampler Feedback Streaming. 3 of the features listed haven't even been utilized yet, most important among them Sampler Feedback Streaming. Realistically things may tip further in Series X's favor as the gen progresses.
So I disagree again. The PS5 does not have just as many advantages over Series X as Series X has over PS5. The PS5's GPU clock speed can't make up for the difference between the two GPUs. It just can't. We've seen this on PC for many years now. The stronger, more powerful GPUs tend to also have lower core clock speeds than weaker GPU, but make up for it with larger GPUs with many more cores and higher memory bandwidth. The RDNA 2 line kinda flipped that on its head to a degree I think due to their amazing efficiency, but the fact still stands for PS5 and Series X. In the kinds of titles we buy these premium consoles for in the first place, Series X has the hardware advantage in all the areas that matter the most to performance. And while I won't say it's a huge difference, having a higher clocked CPU is more important than having a higher clocked GPU. As games start being more designed to hammer at the newer, more advanced CPUs, that's likely to put more pressure on the PS5 GPU to maintain its highest clock speed.
Short version. The console that has clearly the more powerful hardware is expected to always outperform the console with the weaker hardware. Series X can always be made to match or exceed PS5. The same is absolutely not true in the reverse, and that's because the PS5 has weaker (not the same as saying weak) hardware.
Because from my memory and especially earlier in the gen the PS5 always seemed to have the better performance. Some games such as Dirt 5 were especially bad on Series X. Do you remember the whole "Xbox needs its tools" scenario? I just PS5 being on top would be a trend that continued.Really? PS5 has been the pleasant surprise to me so far. The differences in games are largely minimal. The XSX's advantage in higher DRS counts is clear, but not enough to matter to most, imo. Regardless, why would you expect PS5 to have better results than XSX?
Can you prove that the Xbox received the same optimization? People claimed it was a lack of optimization because no one believes Ghostrunner of all games has maxed out the XSX so all you can get is shoddy performance relative to the PS5. Same is true here no one believes that the PS5 is just incapable of running this game more smoothly. The only thing that holds these games back is the devs either putting in the time to make it work or not. It is folly to think that at this early stage in the generation we've reached some sort of plateau in these systems' capabilities.SMH if that's how you read it.
The Medium didn't have raytracing when it was 1st released on Xbox Series X either. Also The Medium has a higher resolution on PS5.
No one said that only PS5 could do 4K 60fps with raytracing , People tried to claim that Xbox Series X didn't receive optimization & I pointed out that this was the 1st time someone even tried native 4K 60fps with raytracing on these consoles.
Oh that thread is eating the hell out of some people. That game is nothing yet it's a huge thread.I don't think that the Ghostrunner thread is eating anyone up.
But you made a lot claims in that thread regarding higher clocks, ROPs, one system being bottlenecked and that UE just favored the PS5. What happened?
Because from my memory and especially earlier in the gen the PS5 always seemed to have the better performance. Some games such as Dirt 5 were especially bad on Series X. Do you remember the whole "Xbox needs its tools" scenario? I just PS5 being on top would be a trend that continued.
Can you prove that the Xbox received the same optimization? People claimed it was a lack of optimization because no one believes Ghostrunner of all games has maxed out the XSX so all you can get is shoddy performance relative to the PS5. Same is true here no one believes that the PS5 is just incapable of running this game more smoothly. The only thing that holds these games back is the devs either putting in the time to make it work or not. It is folly to think that at this early stage in the generation we've reached some sort of plateau in these systems' capabilities.
Go look at the specs
You're really thick headed SMH.
Can you prove that PS5 received extra optimization?
Well we have the only 8k 60fps game on PS5 & the only native 4k 60fps game with Ray tracing hitting that 60fps more on PS5. So it's useful in some cases.I have, in obsessive detail.
You pointing to the PS5's higher pixel fillrate due to its clock speed, correct? What difference has that made in pixel pushing performance between the two consoles, basically resolution? Know why PS5 much more often than not loses that fight? Because of over 100GB/s less memory bandwidth, 448GB/s vs 560GB/s, 1024 less GPU cores, 2304 vs 3328, 64 less Texture Mapping Units, 144 to the Series X's 208.
That amounts to a 44% Series X GPU advantage across 3 very important areas alone.
1 - number of dual compute units
2 - number of shader cores
3 - number of texture mapping units
and finally we know how important memory bandwidth is.
25% more memory bandwidth with which to feed the bigger GPU.
Now cerny pointed out how by going with a higher GPU clock on PS5 it raises multiple boats, include cache etc and all that stuff. How fast are the cache bandwidths on each console? We literally have no idea, but let's assume PS5 ends up with higher cache bandwidth. It likely still doesn't outweigh the benefits that come with having a plain more powerful GPU.
I think what we are seeing in this game is what would happen much more often if devs targeted native 4K on both consoles without the help of dynamic resolution. Again, I'm not saying the PS5 is weak. It's far from it, and PS5 exclusive devs will work magic. I'm only stating that the PS5 has weaker hardware than Xbox Series X, and nothing will change that. And I don't pretend to claim that the PS5 and Series X can't run games at native 4K identically. Depending on the game and what decisions the developer will have made, they can just pursue parity between the two, something I have no issue with depending on the game and situation.
Just as much as you can prove the PS5's superior architecture allows a performance advantage. You stubbornly cling to a hardware advantage when it's clear software improvements are in order yet you call me thick headed? Bad comedy. The idea that software optimization can't fix these issues only better hardware could sounds like the beginning of a bad joke.You're really thick headed SMH.
Can you prove that PS5 received extra optimization?
What game is native 4k/60 with ray tracing?Well we have the only 8k 60fps game on PS5 & the only native 4k 60fps game with Ray tracing hitting that 60fps more on PS5. So it's useful in some cases.
We know for a fact the PS5 game received more development time seeing how it came out a year after the Xbox version which for all intents and purposes was a Switch port. The most useful thing was year of focused development.Well we have the only 8k 60fps game on PS5 & the only native 4k 60fps game with Ray tracing hitting that 60fps more on PS5. So it's useful in some cases.
There were numerous threads from "insiders" before release saying that the Xbox dev kits were dropping in HOT and their SDKs were not feature complete and unfinished due to MS waiting for the full RDNA2 feature set to be finalized. We now know that was the truth, as the launch games were all rough, but since that first batch of games almost every single head to head has come out favouring the xbox. It's not surprising either - the Xbox has 2TF more power along with 10GB of higher bandwidth memory and some more hardware accelerated features. The way certain people carried on back at launch was embarrassing and only setting themselves up for ridicule and disappointment. The whole "another one" thing that they started has now come back to bite them in the arse big time because it's being used against them more often than not.Because from my memory and especially earlier in the gen the PS5 always seemed to have the better performance. Some games such as Dirt 5 were especially bad on Series X. Do you remember the whole "Xbox needs its tools" scenario? I just PS5 being on top would be a trend that continued.
I agree with everything you said. Why did MS go with the split memory pool set up I wonder? Simply to save on cost I suppose?But we CAN prove Series X needs more CAREFUL optimization than PS5. How do we know? Simple. The memory setups. PS5 has a flat 448GB/s across 16GB. Anywhere you pull data from the GPU will achieve maximum bandwidth performance. That's not the case for Series X.
Series X has an asymmetric memory setup. 10GB operates at 560GB/s and the remaining 6GB operates at 326GB/s. If the GPU ends up having to consume from the slower pool, it will tank performance. I'm almost certain that's what's occurring with Ghostrunner. Series X using that slower 326GB/s portion for its GPU isn't an option. That basically starves the larger GPU of the bandwidth it needs to benefit from its hardware specification.
As a ps5 owner I was cringing so hard at all the fanboys that were rubbing it in people's faces that the ps5 was coming out ahead in some of those initial games. They deserve to eat crow.There were numerous threads from "insiders" before release saying that the Xbox dev kits were dropping in HOT and their SDKs were not feature complete and unfinished due to MS waiting for the full RDNA2 feature set to be finalized. We now know that was the truth, as the launch games were all rough, but since that first batch of games almost every single head to head has come out favouring the xbox. It's not surprising either - the Xbox has 2TF more power along with 10GB of higher bandwidth memory and some more hardware accelerated features. The way certain people carried on back at launch was embarrassing and only setting themselves up for ridicule and disappointment. The whole "another one" thing that they started has now come back to bite them in the arse big time because it's being used against them more often than not.
There's a reason most of sony's pre-release talk was about their magical SSD - because they knew that was where they had their main real clear advantage. That's fine, it's smart of them - don't draw attention to things you don't win in, draw attention to your strong points. Unfortunately for Sony, their faster SSD basically only equates to slightly faster load times in 99% of games because 99% of games are on PC and Xbox too.
By mid-end of this generation when everyone has their dev pipelines worked out and sorted, the likely scenario is games will just run at higher resolution on Xbox and will have faster loading on Playstation. There won't be major differences other than that. Everyone wins, both consoles are great and close in terms of their performance.
As a ps5 owner I was cringing so hard at all the fanboys that were rubbing it in people's faces that the ps5 was coming out ahead in some of those initial games. They deserve to eat crow.
No, it is clearly bad optimization when between the two consoles you see that one goes at 20+fps more than the other because "the differences" of hardware will do not give for that result.Wait so if a game is better on Xbox Series X it lines up with the specs but if it's better on PS5 it's bad optimization? you say this even though PS5 has just as many advantages over Xbox Series X as Series X has over PS5.
What can be proven is that XSX has not had the same optimization or work as PS5.You're really thick headed SMH.
Can you prove that PS5 received extra optimization?
Probably, but it would have been a thoroughly researched decision as well. Their OS reserves a certain amount of RAM that games cannot access, and that RAM doesn't need to be super fast. There is 13.5GB available to developers as per MS, meaning only 3.5GB of that is in the slower pool (since the remaining 2.5GB is taken from the slower pool). Most games aren't going to be using 10GB of RAM at once exclusively on the GPU, in which case there is no disadvantage to this asymmetric setup. The money saved on the slower RAM likely contributed to getting the faster than PS5 speed on the other 10GB of RAM too.I agree with everything you said. Why did MS go with the split memory pool set up I wonder? Simply to save on cost I suppose?
As a ps5 owner I was cringing so hard at all the fanboys that were rubbing it in people's faces that the ps5 was coming out ahead in some of those initial games. They deserve to eat crow.
I agree with everything you said. Why did MS go with the split memory pool set up I wonder? Simply to save on cost I suppose?
That's the newer UE5 engine.This game is using UE4 right? I thought that UE4 favoured playstation and didn't need any special work according to you....
What't up with this trend of Series X games becoming better than PS5 versions?
That's the newer UE5 engine.
man stop it there ghost runner is 100% not optimized on series x ....it's evidentThe game is native 4K 60fps with raytracing no other games tried this they always drop the resolution or FPS when adding raytracing so this game had more headroom to add raytracing at 4K 60fps . PS5 achieved it at 60fps while Xbox Series X was bottlenecked somewhere & dropped more. It could be ROPS or internal bandwidth.
The game is native 4K 60fps on Xbox Series X without raytracing so people saying the game isn't optimized is only saying that because PS5 run the game better with raytracing added on top of the native 4K 60fps & the 120fps mode. They don't have a point of reference that show them that Xbox Series X should be running this game better at native 4K 60fps with raytracing.
man stop it there ghost runner is 100% not optimized on series x ....it's evident
the tools have arrivedWhat't up with this trend of Series X games becoming better than PS5 versions?
That's not bad considering xsx and ps5 has pretty much identical resolution only a 10fps difference between them both.
That's not bad considering xsx and ps5 has pretty much identical resolution only a 10fps difference between them both.
Well we have the only 8k 60fps game on PS5 & the only native 4k 60fps game with Ray tracing hitting that 60fps more on PS5. So it's useful in some cases.
No reason to get all defensive.
How do you know that, without side by side comparisons.
Not to mention not mentioning XBSX also drops in to the 30s in the frame graph.
But you never questioned DF’s results in the thread where PS5 was winning, and you had a lot of posts where you could have done so. You just assumed it was correct because it was what you wanted to hear.If you paid attention, I was always talking about the tech side as to way PS5 outperform XBSX.
I never once used DF to support my reasoning.
Get your facts straight.
But you never questioned DF’s results in the thread where PS5 was winning, and you had a lot of posts where you could have done so. You just assumed it was correct because it was what you wanted to hear.
The game is native 4K 60fps with raytracing no other games tried this they always drop the resolution or FPS when adding raytracing so this game had more headroom to add raytracing at 4K 60fps . PS5 achieved it at 60fps while Xbox Series X was bottlenecked somewhere & dropped more. It could be ROPS or internal bandwidth.
The game is native 4K 60fps on Xbox Series X without raytracing so people saying the game isn't optimized is only saying that because PS5 run the game better with raytracing added on top of the native 4K 60fps & the 120fps mode. They don't have a point of reference that show them that Xbox Series X should be running this game better at native 4K 60fps with raytracing.