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DF: F1 2022 - Digital Foundry Tech Review - PS5 vs PC vs Xbox Series X/ Xbox Series S

yamaci17

Gold Member
re games always use heavy taa+ checkerboarding, they practically never render at native resolutions and fool a lot of gamers into thinking that their games are greatly optimized for being able to the mythical native 4k 60 fps (most people are unaware of the CBR

one thing they have going for them is that their CBR is indeed looks good with their TAA, with their specific ART direction and ART style

but its not native, never was
 
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01011001

Gold Member
"A form of image reconstruction, possibly checkerboarding, seems to be in use here"

Timestamped.

DF says "possibly" and you say it is "obvious".

Cracking Up Lol GIF by Rodney Dangerfield

and once again, Capcom never used anything else but CBR in RE Engine titles. what other form of reconstruction could be in use here then when there's literally no precident for it?

and even if it wasn't CBR, NXG said he sees no signs of reconstruction, so still very wrong even if it wasn't CBR (but it very obviously is to anyone with a working brain that noticed the artifacts)

you are still intellectually dishonest if you think it's not clear that it's CBR, or there are some deficiencies with you elsewhere, these are the 2 options at hand, so which is it?

again, they want to cover their asses because of idiots making 200 tweet long twitter threads about them mislabeling a 5 second clip in one of their videos. and yes that really happened
 
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Darsxx82

Member
"A form of image reconstruction, possibly checkerboarding, seems to be in use here"

Timestamped.


DF says "possibly" and you say it is "obvious".

Cracking Up Lol GIF by Rodney Dangerfield
Without being English, my native language is perfectly understood what they mean.... and of course it is not questioning whether they use reconstruction or not. DF, as VGtech does in its analysis, is confirming the use of reconstruction technique for a final 4K image.

What they do not do is confirm the type of reconstruction technique . That is, of course they rule out that the resolution is native.
Nothing comparable to NXgamer who claimed it was native and I don't see any rescaling signals.
Everything else is spinning around without meaning. I don't understand what you, both, want to prove🤔
 
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Topher

Gold Member
and once again, Capcom never used anything else but CBR in RE Engine titles. what other form of reconstruction could be in use here then when there's literally no precedence for it?

you are still intellectually dishonest if you think it's not clear that it's CBR, or there are some deficiencies with you elsewhere, these are the 2 options at hand, so which is it?

again, they want to cover their asses because of idiots making 200 tweet long twitter threads about them mislabeling a 5 second clip in one of their videos. and yes that really happened

Dude....I think we need to bring it down a notch. This isn't that serious. I'm simply going by what the analysts are actually saying. It seems obvious to me that saying "possibly checkerboarding" means they are not sure. That's literally what the word "possibly" means here. Now if there are mitigating circumstances like fear of twitter that is clouding their analysis then frankly, it is all seems useless at that point, but I don't buy that theory at all. Either way, I think that is a point we can agree to disagree on.

Without being English, my native language is perfectly understood what they mean.... and of course it is not questioning whether they use reconstruction or not. DF, as VGtech does in its analysis, is confirming the use of reconstruction technique for a final 4K image.

What they do not do is confirm the type of reconstruction technique . That is, of course they rule out that the resolution is native.
Nothing comparable to NXgamer who claimed it was native and I don't see any rescaling signals.
Everything else is spinning around without meaning. I don't understand what you, both, want to prove🤔

I'm just pointing out the uncertainty of it all. That is my only point.

Perhaps NXGamer NXGamer can weigh in on this.
 

yamaci17

Gold Member
and once again, Capcom never used anything else but CBR in RE Engine titles. what other form of reconstruction could be in use here then when there's literally no precident for it?

and even if it wasn't CBR, NXG said he sees no signs of reconstruction, so still very wrong even if it wasn't CBR (but it very obviously is to anyone with a working brain that noticed the artifacts)

you are still intellectually dishonest if you think it's not clear that it's CBR, or there are some deficiencies with you elsewhere, these are the 2 options at hand, so which is it?

again, they want to cover their asses because of idiots making 200 tweet long twitter threads about them mislabeling a 5 second clip in one of their videos. and yes that really happened
i also feel like quality / analytical approach is not there with df or nxgmer, any of them is not credible for me anymore. too much blatant reviews and mishaps at this point i cant take any of them serious

the DF guy uses this scene to show how bad the PC is in terms of aliasing, but fails to mention that heavy use of TAA practically destroyed a lot of subpixel details, crucial one being the woman's eyelashes beneath her eye. she literally looks lie an alien with no eyelashes, yet the "graphical" analyser fails to mention or see that, SOMEHOW

 

01011001

Gold Member
Dude....I think we need to bring it down a notch. This isn't that serious. I'm simply going by what the analysts are actually saying. It seems obvious to me that saying "possibly checkerboarding" means they are not sure.

sorry but I can't stand intellectual dishonesty and I tend to react hostile towards it... and to me it seems like you are clearly dishonest in your arguments, either that or you have ZERO business talking about that stuff if you actually think there's any other possibility than CBR


I think I have a good analogy of our conversation right now:

[DF, You, I and NXG walk down a street]

*loud sounds of hooves clanking on concrete are audible around the street corner*

DF: There might be Horses around the corner


NXG: I hear no animals at all...

01011001: There are very clearly horses around that corner how did you not hear that?

Topher: dude even DF said "might be" so they aren't sure either lol could be Zebras for all we know, maybe there are no animals at all there 🤷

01011001: are you for real right now? do you have working ears? and when did you last see Zebras walk around on the streets?
 
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Mr Moose

Member
and once again, Capcom never used anything else but CBR in RE Engine titles. what other form of reconstruction could be in use here then when there's literally no precident for it?

and even if it wasn't CBR, NXG said he sees no signs of reconstruction, so still very wrong even if it wasn't CBR (but it very obviously is to anyone with a working brain that noticed the artifacts)

you are still intellectually dishonest if you think it's not clear that it's CBR, or there are some deficiencies with you elsewhere, these are the 2 options at hand, so which is it?

again, they want to cover their asses because of idiots making 200 tweet long twitter threads about them mislabeling a 5 second clip in one of their videos. and yes that really happened
So he's just like Digital Foundry then, right?
In our original analysis of the PS4 Pro edition, Capcom told us that the game rendered at 2240x1260, with additional lighting enhancements. Since then we've heard reports of a different number being used on Pro's 4K output mode. YouTube channel VG Tech in particular dissected the most recent patch 1.06 on PS4 Pro, finding a 3200x1800 resolution with what they believe to be checkerboard rendering.

We've approached Capcom for clarification and will update should a response arrive, but those stats hold up in our tests, which also suggest 1800p rendering - though there's a big question mark over the use of checkerboard rendering. The fact is that the stippling artefacts you'd associate with this technique are very well hidden behind the game's waves of post effects. In motion, the signs just aren't there;
but it would explain how such a jump from 1260p is possible, if true. Checkerboarding or not, the good news is PS4 Pro's results are visibly upgraded next to a regular PS4's 1080p, and it's a good mode to have available if you own a 4K TV.
 

01011001

Gold Member
So he's just like Digital Foundry then, right?

context my dude. back then Capcom's use of CBR wasn't as prolific yet. with the context at hand and now knowing very well how RE Engine games perform and how they are usually set up it's a completely different situation.

Simply disagreeing with you doesn't make me dishonest either.

you are not disagreeing with me, you are misrepresenting what DF is saying. they always cover their asses by using "seems to be" "appears to be" when talking about CBR simply because of said 200 tweet long twitter threads ABOUT THEM MISLABELING THE SYSTEM IN A SINGLE 5 SECOND LONG CLIP which is a real thing that happened.
so they are very cautious with their wording now even if it is the only logical explanation they will still say "appears to be CBR".. and yes it is the ONLY LOGICAL EXPLANATION OF THE RESULTS SEEN to anyone who isn't completely oit of the loop.

they only ever say blatantly "it's using CBR" if it's either publicly stated by the devs beforehand or if they talked to the devs and got confirmation

so you aren't disagreeing. you are, as I said multiple times already, either intellectually dishonest to defend your baseless argument or you are completely out of your elements here.

I think I have a good analogy of our conversation right now:

[DF, You, I and NXG walk down a street]

*loud sounds of hooves clanking on concrete are audible around the street corner*

DF: There might be Horses around the corner


NXG: I hear no animals at all...

01011001: There are very clearly horses around that corner how did you not hear that?

Topher: dude even DF said "might be" so they aren't sure either lol could be Zebras for all we know, maybe there are no animals at all there 🤷

01011001: are you for real right now? do you have working ears? and when did you last see Zebras walk around on the streets?
 
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01011001

Gold Member
DF didn't spot it, VG Tech did. When it comes to resolution, I trust VG Tech over the others, especially if it's blind ass Tom from DF doing it.

well, "blind ass Tom" didn't really do anything right here other than say dynamic 4k (which is correct btw.) and showed FPS numbers.

I too trust VGtech more than anyone but they also aren't infallible. Dark Souls Remastered fooled everyone back then.

and that was my point. the comment I originally responded to was clearly fanboy motivated because the game didn't show an advantage for PS5 like the last game did. it was posted by a known Sony fanboy as well. hence my joking response when he brought up NXG, who recently got shit really wrong, as someone to "wait for" until he believes the results are accurate.
 

Topher

Gold Member
context my dude. back then Capcom's use of CBR wasn't as prolific yet. with the context at hand and now knowing very well how RE Engine games perform and how they are usually set up it's a completely different situation.



you are not disagreeing with me, you are misrepresenting what DF is saying. they always cover their asses by using "seems to be" "appears to be" when talking about CBR simply because of said 200 tweet long twitter threads ABOUT THEM MISLABELING THE SYSTEM IN A SINGLE 5 SECOND LONG CLIP which is a real thing that happened.
so they are very cautious with their wording now even if it is the only logical explanation they will still say "appears to be CBR".. and yes it is the ONLY LOGICAL EXPLANATION OF THE RESULTS SEEN to anyone who isn't completely oit of the loop.

so you aren't disagreeing you are, as I said multiple times already, either intellectually dishonest to defend your baseless argument or you are completely out of your elements here.

Nah, I just know what the word "possibly" means.
 

01011001

Gold Member
Nah, I just know what the word "possibly" means.

so are you intellectually dishonest or out of your element? I don't know. it has to be either of the 2.

if it's the first one then, respectfully, fuck off with that shit
if it's the second one then stop talking about stuff you know clearly nothing about
 
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Topher

Gold Member
so are you intellectually dishonest or out of your element? I don't know. it has to be either of the 2.

if it's the first one then, respectfully, fuck off with that shit
if it's the second one then stop talking about stuff you know clearly nothing about

Nope. My point was the uncertainty of all this and Mr Moose Mr Moose proved that to be the case.

Snl My Work Here Is Done GIF by Saturday Night Live
 
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NXGamer

Member
context my dude. back then Capcom's use of CBR wasn't as prolific yet. with the context at hand and now knowing very well how RE Engine games perform and how they are usually set up it's a completely different situation.



you are not disagreeing with me, you are misrepresenting what DF is saying. they always cover their asses by using "seems to be" "appears to be" when talking about CBR simply because of said 200 tweet long twitter threads ABOUT THEM MISLABELING THE SYSTEM IN A SINGLE 5 SECOND LONG CLIP which is a real thing that happened.
so they are very cautious with their wording now even if it is the only logical explanation they will still say "appears to be CBR".. and yes it is the ONLY LOGICAL EXPLANATION OF THE RESULTS SEEN to anyone who isn't completely oit of the loop.

they only ever say blatantly "it's using CBR" if it's either publicly stated by the devs beforehand or if they talked to the devs and got confirmation

so you aren't disagreeing. you are, as I said multiple times already, either intellectually dishonest to defend your baseless argument or you are completely out of your elements here.
This stupid game of Idol worship, is just that. Let's be clear I analysed Res 7 Demo and picked up the recon elements of the XboxOne version back then, timestamped here:-
DF never picked this up or VG tech, and then full game everyone was stating CBR, nothing changed.

DF also got the Pro version wrong as 1800p recon was used.

Here the main problem is many are conflating and merging many techniques into one, including yourself. Checkerboard, Interlacing, Temporal Injection, Reconstruction, MSAA recon etc etc. They are not all the same, many techniques still render full Depth Buffer and then use lower 2x2, 4x4 etc shading passes to reduce cost beyond that. VRS is a form of that itself, some may call Checkerboard but it is not.

Many titles use lower resolution effects, alpha, SSR, Ray Tracing etc which I state in my Res2 video. Thus stating a Hair fin from a single frame post cut as signs of Checkerboard is not the smoking gun you want it to be or DF can claim. I recall DF and VG tech also took Motion Blur artefacts as signs of Checkboard, and MB often looks that way due to, as I noted above, these effects rarely run a full buffer resolution even on PC.

The fact is the PC interlace mode IS NOT the same as the Console solution and simply stating that is all TAA is also not the full picture, simply based on if the TAA is better, more involved and resolved a better picture then surely it is more expensive than the PC version with inferior results, right?
 
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01011001

Gold Member
This stupid game of Idol worship, is just that. Let's be clear I analysed Res 7 Demo and picked up the recon elements of the XboxOne version back then, timestamped here:-
DF never picked this up or VG tech, and then full game everyone was stating CBR, nothing changed.

DF also got the Pro version wrong as 1800p recon was used.

Here the main problem is many are conflating and merging many techniques into one, including yourself. Checkerboard, Interlacing, Temporal Injection, Reconstruction, MSAA recon etc etc. They are not all the same, many techniques still render full Depth Buffer and then use lower 2x2, 4x4 etc shading passes to reduce cost beyond that. VRS is a form of that itself, some may call Checkerboard but it is not.

Many titles use lower resolution effects, alpha, SSR, Ray Tracing etc which I state in my Res2 video. Thus stating a Hair fin from a single frame post cut as signs of Checkerboard is not the smoking gun you want it to be or DF can claim. I recall DF and VG tech also took Motion Blur artefacts as signs of Checkboard, and MB often looks that way due to, as I noted above, these effects rarely run a full buffer resolution even on PC.

The fact is the PC interlace mode IS NOT the same as the Console solution and simply stating that is all TAA is also not the full picture, simply based on if the TAA is better, more involved and resolved a better picture then surely it is more expensive than the PC version with inferior results, right?

this all started because I made an off hand joke btw.

Noone is infallible and everyone got shit wrong in the past, this was never against you, it was against said idol worship often in the name of the person's favourite plastic box, so they listen only to the people that found stuff that makes their box look better. John from DF recently had to shut Xbox fanboys up by releasing a full list of his comparison videos where most of the time the Xbox came out ahead yet Xbox fanboys called him a Sony shill because the PS5 came out ahead in the videos they watched.
this shit is getting crazy.

and yes you are right, there are other possible causes for combining artifacts but in the case of RE Engine titles it should almost be the default mindset going in that a game using it uses CBR given the history of the engine and the games + the exposed PC setting that is really rare, I think only Ubisoft actually did that in the last with Watch Dogs 2, I can't think of another game having "interlacing" or CBR options exposed on PC.

and also these are last gen ports released in bulk so I wouldn't expect a lot of fancy stuff there either going in.
 
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yamaci17

Gold Member
dlss is magic, as usual. i also have a video coming up. great performance gains for minimal hit to image quality. i also observed minimal ghosting despite being a temporal solution, so that's very great


settings used:,

they do indeed work in real time, not in replay and ray tracing settings also seem to be extensive an detailed you can practically tweak them to your liking. i opted out of rt ambient occlusion to claw some performance back and notched dlss to balanced. :) rt quality seems to affect ray counts but DF probably knows better (i couldn't notice a big difference between medium and high)




rt med vs high,


rt off vs rt med

 
No, he's just being one of those "bu bu bu it has more Tflop so any game that doesn't perform better means Cerny is a genius" dorks.
Well, considering all the boasting about how 12>>>10.3 (oh sry, really 9.2) before the consoles launched, I'd say Cerny is pretty damn good at designing consoles. And let's not forget all the talk about how Series X was going to curb stomp the PS5 when these comparisons started coming out. How'd that play out?
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
Well, considering all the boasting about how 12>>>10.3 (oh sry, really 9.2) before the consoles launched, I'd say Cerny is pretty damn good at designing consoles. And let's not forget all the talk about how Series X was going to curb stomp the PS5 when these comparisons started coming out. How'd that play out?
cerny did not single handily design the PS5 there were many engineers. There is even a video of a japanese engineer who pushed the liquid metal thermal paste that is really making the difference by letting the ps5 push higher clocks. Where is his praise???
 
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dlss is magic, as usual. i also have a video coming up. great performance gains for minimal hit to image quality. i also observed minimal ghosting despite being a temporal solution, so that's very great


settings used:,

they do indeed work in real time, not in replay and ray tracing settings also seem to be extensive an detailed you can practically tweak them to your liking. i opted out of rt ambient occlusion to claw some performance back and notched dlss to balanced. :) rt quality seems to affect ray counts but DF probably knows better (i couldn't notice a big difference between medium and high)




rt med vs high,


rt off vs rt med


RT medium performs pretty great while looking same as high [without 8x zooming] and a huge upgrade visually vs RT off.
 

Bogroll

Likes moldy games
Well, considering all the boasting about how 12>>>10.3 (oh sry, really 9.2) before the consoles launched, I'd say Cerny is pretty damn good at designing consoles. And let's not forget all the talk about how Series X was going to curb stomp the PS5 when these comparisons started coming out. How'd that play out?
You know your right about that but it was not all Xbox people and it was all so Playstation fans saying it as well, not all Playstaion fans.
Its like any man who has ever had a affair and has got back with their Wife/Girlfriend. They will always bring it up when there is a bit of a dispute.
You'll here this till the day we die or leave the internet.
 

01011001

Gold Member
cerny did not single handily design the PS5 there were many engineers. There is even a video of a japanese engineer who pushed the liquid metal thermal paste that is really makes the difference by letting theps5 push higher clocks. Where is his praise???

without the liquid metal and the massive heat sink the PS5 would be in a really bad spot indeed
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
"Without the things to prevent overheating the ps5 would be in a really bad spot"
I mean obviously?
You know what he means they could have (and we’re planning at one time ) to use cheaper regular thermal paste and they could have used a smaller heat sink with lower clocks to make it smaller.
 
What are you replying to? No one is talking about that it doesn’t make the ps5 better. Only that cerny didn’t engineer the ps5 himself. There were dozens of Sony and AMD engineers involved pushing for better implementations.

I didn't say it was Cerny that did that. I remember reading an interview with a Japanese developer where he talked about the cooling system.
 
cerny did not single handily design the PS5 there were many engineers. There is even a video of a japanese engineer who pushed the liquid metal thermal paste that is really making the difference by letting the ps5 push higher clocks. Where is his praise???
Lol, it's funny how triggered you guys get over Cerny. He was the one who headed the development of the PS4 and PS5, and was the face of the team. Of course, he didn't do it all alone, nor did Jason Ronald for XSX. Yet, you don't see PS fans whining about Xbox guys not praising the guy who soldered the chips to the board.
 

Lysandros

Member
Was there even any relevant third party game this year besides Elden Ring? If a list of games performing better on PS5 even exists it's already a big win for Mark Cerny.
Indeed AND those were after the case of Elden Ring:
Selective memory and difficulty dealing with reality goes hand to hand apparently.

Edit: PS5 outperforms XSX in both.
 
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adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Indeed AND those were after the case of Elden Ring:
Selective memory and difficulty dealing with reality goes hand to hand apparently.

Both examples you've linked are nearly identical with a 0.5% or less difference in their performance modes, with DRS not working in the SX version of Stranger of Paradise's "Resolution mode" to compare that specific mode.

Selective or clutching straws, you decide. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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Indeed AND those were after the case of Elden Ring:
Selective memory and difficulty dealing with reality goes hand to hand apparently.
Sorry but you are going to have to remind me of what happened with those games, I already forgot.

I honestly can't think of a single relevant multi-platform big release outside of Elden Ring. Dying Light 2 maybe or MLB I guess... really weak year on that front. So if Elden Ring was running better on PS5 it means they had the performance where it counted the most.

People were getting mad at me but Sony wasn't the one trying to sell their consoles with claims about it being the most powerful console, at no point Sony marketing for their console ever focused on that. In that Mark Cerny talk that he was so criticize for at the time he suggested that raw specs like teraflops didn't tell the whole story, but he didn't make any promises. Turns out he was spot on. Now, even one and half years later it's hard to tell the difference even after watching these comparison videos (not to mention that technically you can have a PS5 for $100 less than a XBSX).

MS market was dead wrong both about the XBS being able to handle current gen games at 1440p without compromises and about the XBSX being clearly the most powerful console on the market. Sony marketing was entirely focused on the DualSense, 3D audio, exclusives, faster loadings compared to last gen and better graphics compared to last gen and they delivered on every single one already.
 
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Sorry but you are going to have to remind me of what happened with those games, I already forgot.

I honestly can't think of a single relevant third-party big release outside of Elden Ring. Dying Light 2 maybe or MLB I guess... really weak year on that front. So if Elden Ring was running better on PS5 it means they had the performance where it counted the most.

People were getting mad at me but Sony wasn't the one trying to sell their consoles with claims about it being the most powerful console, at no point Sony marketing for their console ever focused on that. In that Mark Cerny talk that he was so criticize for at the time he suggested that raw specs like teraflops didn't tell the whole story, but he didn't make any promises. Turns out he was spot on. Now, even one and half years later it's hard to tell the difference even after watching these comparison videos (not to mention that technically you can have a PS5 for $100 less than a XBSX).
Xbox is the most powerful at the chosen metric of last gen.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I honestly can't think of a single relevant third-party big release outside of Elden Ring, Dying Light 2 maybe or MLB I guess... really weak year on that front.

Sniper Elite 5
Lego Starwars Skywalker Saga
Trek to Yomi
Tiny Tina Wonderlands
Shadow Warrior 3


and the one's already mentioned. Not the biggest of lists.
 
Xbox is the most powerful at the chosen metric of last gen.
That's a very last gen way to approach things. Performance in games is the only thing that counts and so far it's really hard to tell them apart and you never know where a new game is going to run better between the two.
 
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That's a very last gen way to approach things. Performance in games is the only thing that counts and so far it's really hard to tell them apart and you never know where a new game is going to run better between the two.
Well it was said during last gen. Almost makes sense.
Reply to the edited part. No one said performance would be better just that it was more powerful based on a industry agreed standard.
 
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Lysandros

Member
Sorry but you are going to have to remind me of what happened with those games, I already forgot.

I honestly can't think of a single relevant multi-platform big release outside of Elden Ring. Dying Light 2 maybe or MLB I guess... really weak year on that front. So if Elden Ring was running better on PS5 it means they had the performance where it counted the most.

People were getting mad at me but Sony wasn't the one trying to sell their consoles with claims about it being the most powerful console, at no point Sony marketing for their console ever focused on that. In that Mark Cerny talk that he was so criticize for at the time he suggested that raw specs like teraflops didn't tell the whole story, but he didn't make any promises. Turns out he was spot on. Now, even one and half years later it's hard to tell the difference even after watching these comparison videos (not to mention that technically you can have a PS5 for $100 less than a XBSX).

MS market was dead wrong both about the XBS being able to handle current gen games at 1440p without compromises and about the XBSX being clearly the most powerful console on the market. Sony marketing was on the DualSense, 3D audio, exclusives, faster loadings compared to last gen and better graphics compared to last gen and they delivered on every single one already.
Those multi-platform games simply ran better on PS5 compared to XSX (see the stats by Vgtech), i only provided two examples post Elden Ring proving Zathalus wrong.
 
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Mr Moose

Member
Well it was said during last gen. Almost makes sense.
Reply to the edited part. No one said performance would be better just that it was more powerful based on a industry agreed standard.
lol it’s math, minimum of 40to50 frames per second on GPU Alone. In addition to better RT This Delta alone is huge, can be put into extra effects, resolution, frames, so much more.

Taken from a dumbass on Twitter. How did that dude get 110k subs on YouTube?
 
lol it’s math, minimum of 40to50 frames per second on GPU Alone. In addition to better RT This Delta alone is huge, can be put into extra effects, resolution, frames, so much more.

Taken from a dumbass on Twitter. How did that dude get 110k subs on YouTube?
I meant no one at Microsoft in advertisement. It's quite simply fact based off the chosen metric of the time. The world's most powerful car is probably not the fastest. HP alone speaks nothing of speed but doesn't make it less powerful.
Edit
Wait did someone say the xsx would get 40_50 fps advantage? Hahaha
Second edit
Did some thinking and I guess technically there could be a 40fps difference under a few very select scenarios.
 
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01011001

Gold Member
"Without the things to prevent overheating the ps5 would be in a really bad spot"
I mean obviously?

it wouldn't overheat it would have been clocked slower, making it less powerful. so if that guy didn't push for liquid metal the PS5 would simply need to run slower Einstein

They were planning to until they found a better solution which is how development works. Just seems like a redundant point.

it's more likely that they got wind of what Microsoft is planning and reacted to it. given how early we had hardware info out there in the wild, Sony was clearly also in the know

Agreed 100%. Way to tell them! Not to mention, people without access to electricity wouldn't even be able to turn the PS5 on!

great insights right there and way to misunderstand a very simply comment.
 
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metaverse

Member
it wouldn't overheat it would have been clocked slower, making it less powerful. so if that guy didn't push for liquid metal the PS5 would simply need to run slower Einstein



it's more likely that they got wind of what Microsoft is planning and reacted to it. given how early we had hardware info out there in the wild, Sony was clearly also in the know



great insights right there and way to misunderstand a very simply comment.

Agreed. Without engineers engineering aspects of the design it would have been slower. Imagine not having a target clock speed during initial design phases and engineers getting paid ~400K to overlook cooling.
 

01011001

Gold Member
Agreed. Without engineers engineering aspects of the design it would have been slower. Imagine not having a target clock speed during initial design phases and engineers getting paid ~400K to overlook cooling.

we are reaching dangerous doses of brain damaging brainwaves with that comment, god damn.

Liquid Metal + large heat sink = higher production cost.
higher clockspeeds also = lower yeild = higher production cost

someone pushing for extreme cooling solutions and higher clocks is not something that console engineers usually do.
him pushing for that is unusual and was most likely controversial and not even remotely the obvious way to go forward.
especially since liquid metal is extremely hard to use in consumer grade mass production hardware due to corrosion and containment issues.

all of that increases complexity, material costs and worse yeilds.

how about maybe an intelligent comment next? if you are abled enough to do that.
 

metaverse

Member
we are reaching dangerous doses of brain damaging brainwaves with that comment, god damn.

Liquid Metal + large heat sink = higher production cost.
higher clockspeeds also = lower yeild = higher production cost

someone pushing for extreme cooling solutions and higher clocks is not something that console engineers usually do.
him pushing for that is unusual and was most likely controversial and not even remotely the obvious way to go forward.
especially since liquid metal is extremely hard to use in consumer grade mass production hardware due to corrosion and containment issues.

all of that increases complexity, material costs and worse yeilds.

how about maybe an intelligent comment next? if you are abled enough to do that.
Agreed. You're completely right and spot on. Because this is something unusual, `console engineer` would never research/explore the necessary requirements to push for this specific design. The individual who pushed for this was both malicious in action and misinformed. Very controversial indeed. To bypass management decisions and flip a switch.

Your entire `controversial` spin/rumor spreading is that Sony reacted to what Microsoft did with the XSX. How is that even a point worth taking seriously? 🤡
 
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we are reaching dangerous doses of brain damaging brainwaves with that comment, god damn.

Liquid Metal + large heat sink = higher production cost.
higher clockspeeds also = lower yeild = higher production cost

someone pushing for extreme cooling solutions and higher clocks is not something that console engineers usually do.
him pushing for that is unusual and was most likely controversial and not even remotely the obvious way to go forward.
especially since liquid metal is extremely hard to use in consumer grade mass production hardware due to corrosion and containment issues.

all of that increases complexity, material costs and worse yeilds.

how about maybe an intelligent comment next? if you are abled enough to do that.
Sony still outproduced both Xbox Series consoles combined despite the Series S being a lot easier to produce.

Liquid metal is usually only found on very premium products like the ROG laptops from Asus. It's something that takes a lot of study and preparation to put into a mass produced product. If anything it's probably a way they figured out to get the most performance out of their yields and ultimately save them money. If the PS5 used a big SoC like the Xbox Sony would likely be having even more problems with production.

There is no indication of any widespread overheating problem with the PS5 and they already started to reduce the size of the heatsink with the console revisions (the initial massive side was probably them being conservative). When they move to a new node the higher clock will hardly matter. Seems like they made their decisions hoping they'll pay off in the future, even if that means making some things harder in the beginning.

I think we should be at a point where we could all just admit how well designed the PS5 was, for $400/$500 they were able to achieve virtually the same performance while also having enough left to provide a much more advanced gamepad and a much faster SSD. The Xbox controller doesn't even include batteries in 2022, the SSD expansion is pretty much a scam, so it's not like MS didn't cut many corners to get that performance at $500 as well.
 
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