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[GlassAwful]

So why don't VR game devs provide the option of playing on a flat screen and controlling the camera with the right thumb stick of the motion controllers?

Yea it would lower immersion, presence and depth perception but it would also lower the price of entry for people that would play the games but don't want to invest in an HMD and provide a means for longer periods of play among other things like getting around the locomotion issue and the higher frame rate requirement.

 

[gifgaf]

So why don't VR game devs provide the option of playing on a flat screen and controlling the camera with the right thumb stick of the motion controllers?

Yea it would lower immersion, presence and depth perception but it would also lower the price of entry for people that would play the games but don't want to invest in an HMD and provide a means for longer periods of play among other things like getting around the locomotion issue and the higher frame rate requirement.

Some games do, like Rec Room or Resident Evil VII. Some games are converted from flat screen games into VR like Skyrim or Borderlands and some games just would not work as well on a flat screen without compromises that would make the game worse and not as fun, Astrobot or Firewall comes to mind here.

I guess its at the discretion of the Devs. VR can elevate a generic boring flat screen game into something special.

 

[Romulus]

So why don't VR game devs provide the option of playing on a flat screen and controlling the camera with the right thumb stick of the motion controllers?

Yea it would lower immersion, presence and depth perception but it would also lower the price of entry for people that would play the games but don't want to invest in an HMD and provide a means for longer periods of play among other things like getting around the locomotion issue and the higher frame rate requirement.

Often times the main gameplay loop is designed around VR. Or at least a key feature.

 

[Alexios]

So why don't VR game devs provide the option of playing on a flat screen and controlling the camera with the right thumb stick of the motion controllers?

Yea it would lower immersion, presence and depth perception but it would also lower the price of entry for people that would play the games but don't want to invest in an HMD and provide a means for longer periods of play among other things like getting around the locomotion issue and the higher frame rate requirement.

After all the footage people have posted what makes you think the only thing VR does is relegate camera control to your head? You think those fancy looking detached controllers are just for show/for profit and simply work as an xbox pad and all the people playing by moving around are just doing it as roleplay, it's make believe and they could just as well twiddle their thumbs on a couch? Seriously, it's not that hard to grasp, people don't need to experience VR to get it. One video or explanation for one game is all it takes to extrapolate how it might work in others and its potential.

You have fully tracked in 3D space hand control. That means that at its most basic, instead of drag the crosshair/camera around with a mouse or analog stick in an FPS, you maintain control in 3D space with an analog stick (or other methods) but aim all around you in 360 degrees with your hands as you would in some arcade lightgun game (if not as you would in real life). That's a wholly different challenge that demands a completely different skillset from a player thus the environments and encounters are all designed around that. It then extends to every other interaction, from crouching behind not-just-chest-high-blocks and leaning organically or blind firing around cover, to intricate sword fighting that doesn't use canned animations and angles of attack, to manipulating levers, switches and control sticks, far more than a gamepad can hold, in the interactive cockpit of a vehicle, to pushing the environment to propel yourself as you climb or swim or float in space, to anything and everything at once. When it's done in a super basic manner, yes, it can be converted to a flat game and it's done. When it's done properly it takes a full remake of all the developed systems and interactions with the environment, objects and enemies. Again at a basic level, if a lightgun game is fun and exciting and rewards precision and speed when expertly designed, like Time Crisis or Virtua Cop, porting it to other controllers just makes it a lame crosshair pushing game.

 

[iconmaster]

I don’t understand how VR keeps struggling in spite of all these killer apps.

This is sarcasm

 

[Otterz4Life]

Not gonna lie. Alyx looks incredible.

 

[Wonko_C]

gifgaf @Kadayi

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I’ve never played REVII. I kept it until I had PSVR. I’ll try it again in smaller bursts (with incremental turning) as thinking about it, I was playing for around 90 minutes at a time and I’m fairly new to VR. I guess it’s very heavy in terms of motion sickness. I’m fine with most other games even Wipeout.

Cheers!

Wow 90 minutes at a time? The first days I could barely play for 10 minutes, fortunately, over the course of a couple weeks I could play more and more until I could play a couple of hours, finished entire game sessions without any discomfort.

But it's a game that can sometimes still catch you off-guard if you stop playing it for a few months. REVII must be doing something really wrong with the movement and rotation if you need to acclimate to it again and again. Other games with full locomotion have never given me issues, such as No Man's Sky.

 

[GlassAwful]

After all the footage people have posted what makes you think the only thing VR does is relegate camera control to your head?

You think those fancy looking detached controllers are just for show/for profit and simply work as an xbox pad and all the people playing by moving around are just doing it as roleplay and could just as well twiddle their thumbs on a couch?

Seriously, it's not that hard to grasp, people don't need to experience VR to get it.

You have fully tracked in 3D space hand control. That means that at its most basic, instead of drag the crosshair/camera around with a mouse or analog stick in an FPS, you maintain control in 3D space with an analog stick (or other methods) but aim all around you in 360 degrees with your hands as you would in some arcade lightgun game (if not as you would in real life). That extends to every other interaction, from crouching behind not-chest-high-blocks cover and leaning organically to take pot shots, to intricate sword fighting that doesn't use canned animations and angles of attack to manipulating various levers, switches and control sticks, far more than a gamepad can hold, in the interactive cockpit of some advanced machine or vehicle to pushing the environment to propel yourself as you climb or swim or float in space, to ANYthing. When it's done in a super basic manner, yeah, it can be converted to a flat game and it's done. When it's done properly it takes a full remake of all the developed systems and interactions with objects and enemies. They aren't gonna bother if the game's that much inferior for it. Again at a basic level, if a shooter is fun and exciting and takes skill to play when expertly designed, like Time Crisis or Virtua Cop, porting that content to other control methods than a lightgun just makes them lame crosshair pushing games nobody wants to play. It'd take making a wholly different game for it to be fun in that form.

First of all, my question and my point was legitimate and there's nothing at all hard to understand about motion controlled tracked hands so stuff your entire condescending reply right up your ass.

Secondly, I didn't say one thing about console control pads. I was talking about vive/wand/index controllers which means your entire rambling paragraph was for nothing, good job.

Maybe take a couple swings reading the posts before hitting reply next time.

 

[magnumpy]

really looking forward to potential mods for this. hopefully, don't let me down gamers! I'll make the mods myself if I have to and you do not want to play my crappy levels!

 

[hybrid_birth]

How many "VR's First Killer App"s have we had now?.....

Its half life so...

 

[Moses85]

Stunning

 

[PanzerAzel]

Wish I could enjoy this, but I can’t even so much as look at VR without getting nauseated. Had to sell my Vive after a few months of unsuccessfully trying to adapt. Eh, sucks. Maybe as the tech improves they’ll find a better way to combat sim sickness but as it stands now I can’t touch this.

 

[Tesseract]

Wish I could enjoy this, but I can’t even so much as look at VR without getting nauseated. Had to sell my Vive after a few months of unsuccessfully trying to adapt. Eh, sucks. Maybe as the tech improves they’ll find a better way to combat sim sickness but as it stands now I can’t touch this.

you have to get over the sickness yourself, brother

spin around in circles like a psycho maniac until you puke no more

 

[Stitch]

Boneworks devs just released this video. Game is out dec 10th.

 

[SnapShot]

So many "VR First True Killer Apps", I don't even know anymore.

 

[fantomena]

So many "VR First True Killer Apps", I don't even know anymore.

Well, isn't it better to have more than 1 killer app? Many people say Beat Saber is the killer app. Some people say Pistol Whip. Some say Lone Echo. Some say Asgard's Wrath. So you have already plenty to play if you ever get a VR headset for PC.

And of coruse some say Astro Bot on PSVR.

 

[SnapShot]

Well, isn't it better to have more than 1 killer app?

Depends on how you look at it, makes it sound more like "the previous killer apps weren't really killer apps"

 

[\m/etalStorm]

Alyx looks amazing, but the main problem of VR is still the clunky hardware. Hardcore VR gamers say that it's BS and all VR needs is that "one killer app". The thing is, that the mainstream audience doesn't care, as long as you have these huge devices strapped to your face, which are fairly uncomfortable to wear. No 500 hour AAAA production will make that any better. Not to mention motion sickness etc. The Quest is a first step in the right direction, but there is a long long way to go.

 

[mrdeiz]

Thought SexLikeReal app was the killer one in VR

 

[donfonzie]

I hope they make this into a trilogy.

 

[Wolfgang Jr]

I doubt HL:A will sell close to Beat Saber initially (it would be super cool if it did though), maybe over time if it becomes successful and the mod tools also take off to keep it relevant with legs it could surpass it. Oh but that's like Wii games, it's not a real game! There are others. Yes Half-Life is a great big IP but it's no more or less important than a stream of other games. Why's a new Valve game more important than an Insomniac or Respawn game? I mean, to me it's important as a fan of both Half-Life and VR, to be able to expect another very polished game, but with or without it I'd still enjoy the rest. It's not like Valve has been more infallible than others in their release output and they haven't shown much I care about in ages to present them as the chance to finally get a great game, others also make such. This is just the casual media outlets wanting everything on a silver platter, oh if it's not from an EA level gaming corporation with big E3 level press preview events we don't care, we'll leave that coverage to the casual gadget media outlets instead that have closer ties to those other big corporations like Facebook (but we'll still go gaga over Astrobot and PSVR and make it the GOTY because Sony is our friend and we've had a long lasting relationship, ignore that so we can make this claim now).

I agree with much of the more rationalized hype's side elements. Valve is a potentially great caliber (yet not infallible) studio and basically have free reign to do what they want without even caring if it costs too much or takes too long or whatever else, I just don't necessarily expect Alyx to be some super mind blowing thing for people who have actually played a lot of VR before (one of the two people in the video don't even have VR, lol). I held some, I don't know, not exactly hope, just on the back of my mind the possibility that they may show some new idea I hadn't considered. In the end it was what I expected, a really polished AAA VR FPS I'm super excited for, with mechanics not much unlike the unpolished or smaller scope (ie PVP vs story campaign) VR FPS I've played before. Basically what I knew an AAA developer can make with VR. Respawn was important when they were the Call of Duty creators that were now working for the Microsoft exclusive Titanfall but for VR they'd probably have gone ignored like Insomniac (since it wasn't a Sony Spider-Man game, lol) if EA hadn't bought them opening up the Medal of Honor IP to be used for their VR project. Don't get me wrong though, Alyx will probably be my favorite FPS.

Still, the stuff we've seen from Walking Dead: Saints & Sinners for example is more exciting, perhaps by virtue of people actually playing a game rather than watching a scripted demonstration. It's just clear that studio doesn't have Valve's budget, resources and expertise in certain areas (look at those facial animations, lol, hopefully that was WIP). But I'm sure Alyx won't disappoint in comparison (and that Saints & Sinners isn't infallible either, it has a lot of side elements yet is still meant to be a relatively short game so all the inventory and home area and such could just be annoying and unnecessary padding while the branching paths of the story might have been better served as part of a longer continuous adventure instead), it was just a first glimpse of it. Though with how cool and satisfying (and sadistic) those melee kills look I wish Alyx had included the crowbar. I guess they're leaving that for a Freeman game.


Lots of people in the other threads were surprised when shown other promising or existing VR games, how they also weren't on-rails or whatever, that's the fault and failure of the supposedly gaming enthusiast media not covering VR properly and some such hype videos just perpetuate the idea that everything outside (or before) Alyx is indeed on-rails and other such super limited stuff. That couldn't be further from the truth. So, I'm looking forward to Alyx for many reasons, but there's a lot more goodness out there. It just makes me feel like the Wii days, the media focused on the shovelware, memes and mocking with top 10 worst articles and other such shit instead of informing gamers about the many worthy releases on the system beyond begrudgingly admitting that, yeah, Mario's pretty great because they couldn't not acknowledge the IP's caliber and quality, as they do with Half-Life now.

The problem with these, is that they all look fucking shit and I bet they play worse as well.

 

[Racer!]

Alyx looks amazing, but the main problem of VR is still the clunky hardware. Hardcore VR gamers say that it's BS and all VR needs is that "one killer app". The thing is, that the mainstream audience doesn't care, as long as you have these huge devices strapped to your face, which are fairly uncomfortable to wear. No 500 hour AAAA production will make that any better. Not to mention motion sickness etc. The Quest is a first step in the right direction, but there is a long long way to go.

So true.

I would say the software is actually there. Its the friction to get into and stay in the experience thats holding it back from going mainstream. In regards to that, there have been zero innovation from gen 1.

I would say Sony is actually closest in terms of comfort. If they can get it a little lighter and wireless, they are there. All headsets that are not halo designed, and press on your face will never go mainstream in my opinion. That includes Oculus Quest. Nobody wants their make up or glasses crushed and smudged around in their faces. Or carry the weight on their face for that matter. Until glass design is here, the halo solution (having something on your head is much more casually accepted, caps and so on) is the way to go in my opinion.

If they add PS5 horsepower with a higher resolution/wider fov, lighter (or better balanced, with battery/pcb built around or in the back of the halo) wireless headset, this could get really interesting. Of course, inside out tracking is a must. Eyetracking for rendering/setup would take it to another level.

 

[plushyp]

Boneworks devs just released this video. Game is out dec 10th.

This is it, the one game I actually feel might actually push boundaries. HL: Alyx is just getting a lot of attention because of being Half Life.

 

[Bradamante3D]

Everybody who wants to see a Half-Life 3 better buy Alyx even without any intention of ever playing it, just to boost sales.

 

[mckmas8808]

I thought Astro Bot: Rescue Mission was the first VR killer app?

It is in my eyes.

 

[dorkimoe]

I hope they make this into a trilogy.

with the sequel coming out 20 years from now

It could be the best game ever and I am not dropping $1000 to play it on VR with 1 good game

 

[Wonko_C]

I thought Astro Bot: Rescue Mission was the first VR killer app?

Add to that Beat Saber, Wipeout Omega Collection, Tetris Effect, No Man's Sky BEYOND, Blood & Truth, have been the most genuine fun I've had in the last 2 years IMO. Those I think are the unmissable games every gamer should play at least once.

And that's only on the PSVR side with its wonky tracking and facepalm-inducing Move controllers. The PC side is like 10x more insane and makes me jelly I can't currently afford it.

 

[Spukc]

lone echo or robo recall was the true first killer app

 

[Romulus]

Alyx looks amazing, but the main problem of VR is still the clunky hardware. Hardcore VR gamers say that it's BS and all VR needs is that "one killer app". The thing is, that the mainstream audience doesn't care, as long as you have these huge devices strapped to your face, which are fairly uncomfortable to wear. No 500 hour AAAA production will make that any better. Not to mention motion sickness etc. The Quest is a first step in the right direction, but there is a long long way to go.

I don't see hardly any VR enthusiasts saying it needs that "one killer app" anymore. Maybe in 2016.

The problem is on the whole is not the hardware imo alone, its more price and ignorance. Still, in 2019 most gamers think VR tech is just "a screen close to your face." Lmao.

 

[pr0cs]

lone echo or robo recall was the true first killer app

Agreed

Moss came out before Astro bot IIRC, they have very similar gameplay.

 

[Wonko_C]

Agreed

Moss came out before Astro bot IIRC, they have very similar gameplay.

Moss feels more like the classic top-down Zelda games than a bonafide Mario platformer IMO, except it's set on a linear path.

I hope we hear about Moss Part 2 soon.

 

[rofif]

h3vr was the first killer app.. or maybe robo recall if we talk real games. Moss was incredibly boring and simple

 

[VertigoOA]

If it’s on rails? No.

but it will move units more than any game that has tried before it... so maybe?!

 

[pr0cs]

hope we hear about Moss Part 2 soon.

I was unaware they were making a sequel. Very cool