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David Jaffe has hurt Phillip Spencers feelings

Who is in the wrong?

  • David Jaffe

    Votes: 87 22.7%
  • Phil Spencer

    Votes: 296 77.3%

  • Total voters
    383
Did they need first party launch games to show off the console? It sold out within hours. You can't walk in to a shop and buy the console, and you won't be able to until some time early next year. That to me says they didn't need to, at all.

Can we stop using launch sales as a barometer for anything?

 

MrFunSocks

Banned
You are right, they just collaborated with Turn 10 initially. It is still not a studio that Microsoft assembled under the tenure of Phill Spencer.
Correct. The second team that they have now was potentially formed under Phil Spencer's leadership though, not sure.
 
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Enjay

Banned
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Golgo 13

The Man With The Golden Dong
Thing is, Jaffe’s right on this. And it’s fairly telling that it cut pretty close to the bone for Spencer to block him.

Spencers done some great stuff for Xbox and that’s why he still has a job, but getting great games to land on a consistent schedule is not one of them.
 

N1tr0sOx1d3

Given another chance
Did they need first party launch games to show off the console? It sold out within hours. You can't walk in to a shop and buy the console, and you won't be able to until some time early next year. That to me says they didn't need to, at all.
No absolutely not. We are happy to pay for the £500 console and have no 1st party titles for the foreseeable future.
Xbox is sat on some extraordinary IPs. No one put Xbox is this position but themselves.
I’m not sorry I want incredible 1st party games from Xbox nor Sony for that matter.
I’m not entitled, I’m a hardworking paying customer!
 
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MrFunSocks

Banned
No absolutely not. We are happy to pay for the £500 console and have no 1st party titles for the foreseeable future.
Xbox is sat on some extraordinary IPs. No one put Xbox is this position but themselves.
I’m not sorry I want incredible 1st party games from Xbox nor Sony for that matter.
I’m not entitled, I’m a hardworking paying customer!
I was happy to pay my AUD$750 for it because 99% of the games that the PS5 is getting will also release on the Series X at the same time, I've got a backlog of 300+ games that now run better than ever to play, my favourite game that is pretty much the only game I've put more than a dozen hours into in the last like 3 years (PUBG) runs the best it's ever run on it, and there are 23 first party studios now making games for the Series X exclusively. There's no doubt the first party games will come. There's no rush. List wars are played by fanboys, normal people don't care if a game is made by a first party or third party.

Thing is, Jaffe’s right on this. And it’s fairly telling that it cut pretty close to the bone for Spencer to block him.

Spencers done some great stuff for Xbox and that’s why he still has a job, but getting great games to land on a consistent schedule is not one of them.

You can't fix "getting great games out on a consistent schedule" in 1/2/3/probably even 5 years. There's no quick fix. Under Phil Spencer XGS has built up a library of 23 studios, many with second teams. They will start churning out games consistently. Their entire plan has been to get at least 1 AAA first party game on game pass per quarter. 23 studios gives them the resources to do that, but they need time to do it. They need to space the releases out, potentially artificially to begin with too, as they don't want 6 AAA bombs all dropping in 1 quarter then none for another 18 months. Come late next year I think we'll start seeing the change that you want.
 
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davidjaffe

The Fucking MAN.
#1- I agree. I have a Series X supposed to be here by Dec 23rd and I'm super excited for it. I'm a huge GPass fan.

#2- Regarding this tho: 'normal people don't care if a game is made by a first party or third party'.

You are 100% right. At the same time, normal people have no clue there are 23 1st party studios making exclusive X games (let alone what a 1st party studio is). They just know they go online or walk into Best Buy and go, 'What do you mean there are no new games for it?!?'

Is that a knock out punch for Xbox? Nope.

Is it a hell of a painful body blow followed by a snappy uppercut? God Damned Right it is.
 
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MrFunSocks

Banned
#1- I agree. I have a Series X supposed to be here by Dec 23rd and I'm super excited for it. I'm a huge GPass fan.

#2- Regarding this tho: 'normal people don't care if a game is made by a first party or third party'.

You are 100% right. At the same time, normal people have no clue there are 23 1st party studios making exclusive X games (let alone what a 1st party studio is). They just know they go online or walk into Best Buy and go, 'What do you mean there are no new games for it?!?'

Is that a knock out punch for Xbox? Nope.

Is it a hell of a painful body blow followed by a snappy uppercut? God Damned Right it is.
But there were new games for the Series X on day 1......?

The biggest selling games every year on every console are the annual 3rd party mega franchise releases. Guess which games are going to sell the most from this launch? Assassin's Creed, COD, Watch Dogs, NBA 2K21. All of those are on the Xbox on day 1. They're new games.
 

N1tr0sOx1d3

Given another chance
I was happy to pay my AUD$750 for it because 99% of the games that the PS5 is getting will also release on the Series X at the same time, I've got a backlog of 300+ games that now run better than ever to play, my favourite game that is pretty much the only game I've put more than a dozen hours into in the last like 3 years (PUBG) runs the best it's ever run on it, and there are 23 first party studios now making games for the Series X exclusively. There's no doubt the first party games will come. There's no rush. List wars are played by fanboys, normal people don't care if a game is made by a first party or third party.



You can't fix "getting great games out on a consistent schedule" in 1/2/3/probably even 5 years. There's no quick fix. Under Phil Spencer XGS has built up a library of 23 studios, many with second teams. They will start churning out games consistently. Their entire plan has been to get at least 1 AAA first party game on game pass per quarter. 23 studios gives them the resources to do that, but they need time to do it. They need to space the releases out, potentially artificially to begin with too, as they don't want 6 AAA bombs all dropping in 1 quarter then none for another 18 months. Come late next year I think we'll start seeing the change that you want.
I partly agree with you. Their back catalogue will look and run better then ever before.
But normal people do care about Xbox IPs and do want their games in a timely manner to justify that £500 purchase.
Are people really just content to play the back catalogue of games on a new generation box? Halo and Gears even Fable have huge followings. I’m betting they want these games to take advantage of their latest technology leap as soon as possible.
 

davidjaffe

The Fucking MAN.
But there were new games for the Series X on day 1......?

The biggest selling games every year on every console are the annual 3rd party mega franchise releases. Guess which games are going to sell the most from this launch? Assassin's Creed, COD, Watch Dogs, NBA 2K21. All of those are on the Xbox on day 1. They're new games.
Sure, that's fair.

But I mean exclusives that make me go, 'Oh, I gotta get the box for THAT!'

I'm not a big graphics guy so all those games you mention I can play on my PS4 already.

And hell, I'm playing AC:V on Amazon Luna and LOVING it ($15 for one month of Ubi channel gives me AC:V, WATCHDOGS, and IMMORTAL...I don't give a shit about owning games so it's a hell of a deal).

But yeah, if you are looking for something to play, there's tons to play. Just nothing SHOWCASE. Kinda like getting a sports car and only being able to drive it around town cause the freeways are all shut down (odd scenario, of course, but ya know, it kinda tracks...)
 

Iorv3th

Member
Phil is in the right. Toxic people should just be ignored.

There's nothing to be gained by giving the spotlight to a person that can't make a criticism without using "shit" and "fuck" all the time.
Sounds like an edgy teenager talking

Sounds like a shitty fucking thing to say.
 

Xenon

Member
Did they need first party launch games to show off the console? It sold out within hours. You can't walk in to a shop and buy the console, and you won't be able to until some time early next year. That to me says they didn't need to, at all.

Look I am a die-hard Xbox fan and it's my platform of choice. But hearing almost every person from the gaming media talking about the fact that there wasn't a showcase game out for the system definitely put a damper on the release of the system for me. I'm loving the system, but the lack of a title to show off the power of the system is a bit of a buzzkill.
 
Phil is in the right. Toxic people should just be ignored.

There's nothing to be gained by giving the spotlight to a person that can't make a criticism without using "shit" and "fuck" all the time.
Sounds like an edgy teenager talking

I think what’s even worse is that he even makes it public and cries publicly like a little baby about it. Why even do this?
this just shows how toxic you are. If someone blocks me, I don’t make it public and complain about it. This is pathetic.
Just move on.

also, especially after that kind of behavior, I think there is a another side to the story.
We only know what jaffe said, but maybe something different happened? We don’t know. But complaining about it publicly, doesn’t show him in a good light.
 
Sure, that's fair.

But I mean exclusives that make me go, 'Oh, I gotta get the box for THAT!'

I'm not a big graphics guy so all those games you mention I can play on my PS4 already.

And hell, I'm playing AC:V on Amazon Luna and LOVING it ($15 for one month of Ubi channel gives me AC:V, WATCHDOGS, and IMMORTAL...I don't give a shit about owning games so it's a hell of a deal).

But yeah, if you are looking for something to play, there's tons to play. Just nothing SHOWCASE. Kinda like getting a sports car and only being able to drive it around town cause the freeways are all shut down (odd scenario, of course, but ya know, it kinda tracks...)
I don't think that's their strategy, and I believe you're kind of missing the point.

Sure this is a new console launch, and sure they wanted a couple things with it, but at the same time their platform is just a rolling release now. It doesn't need a particular game to accompany the hardware, this is a quality of life improvement and keeping the ball rolling. It's like building a new PC, that's not some kind of event that begs brand new games, new hardware comes out and the party just keeps on rolling and software as it always does follows in its wake.

Games don't ever stop coming out, there's things to play, there's things coming to play and there will be thousands more. Hell most people haven't even cleared their PS4 and Xbox One backlogs. I'm playing Titanfall 2 and Mortal Kombat 11 right now.
 
I don't think that's their strategy, and I believe you're kind of missing the point.

Sure this is a new console launch, and sure they wanted a couple things with it, but at the same time their platform is just a rolling release now. It doesn't need a particular game to accompany the hardware, this is a quality of life improvement and keeping the ball rolling. It's like building a new PC, that's not some kind of event that begs brand new games, new hardware comes out and the party just keeps on rolling and software as it always does follows in its wake.

Games don't ever stop coming out, there's things to play, there's things coming to play and there will be thousands more. Hell most people haven't even cleared their PS4 and Xbox One backlogs. I'm playing Titanfall 2 and Mortal Kombat 11 right now.

I think you guys are wrong about this stuff, you gotta think back to a time before you were tech enthusiasts on video game forums. Why did I buy the original XBOX? I wanted to play fucking Halo. N64? Mario 64. PC? Warcraft II, etc. personally I've always had a specific game I was eyeing when I bought a new console, this new gen. included.
 
Do I get to vote too?!?!? :)

Video about no launch games is respectful and accurate, it's not like you attacked Phil personally. I don't understand why Xbox doesn't have a launch game either. Medium = missed. Infinite = missed. Funny I find myself agreeing with you on many levels e.g. passion, xbox vision greater, launch missing games, hardware great, gamepass great, BC great.

I understand it will come with time but it's not how I would launch a premium next gen console either. I suppose they really do see this next gen just like a PC, it's another upgrade that you simply choose at any time e.g. a new PC graphics card or processor. It's not like you link that to launch titles on PC. You upgrade hardware or software services or peripherals outside of the games/releases and ecosystems selling games.

EDIT: fuck people that can't take a little passion/swearing/criticism. Honestly grow some thicker skin and do better.
 
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MrFunSocks

Banned
Sure, that's fair.

But I mean exclusives that make me go, 'Oh, I gotta get the box for THAT!'

I'm not a big graphics guy so all those games you mention I can play on my PS4 already.

And hell, I'm playing AC:V on Amazon Luna and LOVING it ($15 for one month of Ubi channel gives me AC:V, WATCHDOGS, and IMMORTAL...I don't give a shit about owning games so it's a hell of a deal).

But yeah, if you are looking for something to play, there's tons to play. Just nothing SHOWCASE. Kinda like getting a sports car and only being able to drive it around town cause the freeways are all shut down (odd scenario, of course, but ya know, it kinda tracks...)
I absolutely get what you're saying, and I get that people on here will feel like that, but even though this forum might all be in agreeance that they need exclusives, the overwhelming majority of the buyers of both consoles could not care less. They'll be buying and playing COD/Valhalla/etc and the exclusive games don't even come into their decision making. Just like every time someone goes to buy a new phone they aren't tossing up between android and iOS, they're just buying what they already preferred brand wise. Most people care about price, where their friends play, and brand name. Exclusive games don't even rate a mention.

"enthusiasts" on this forum have a habit of being completely out of touch with the actual greater market. This forum thought the Vita would destroy the DS, thought that the Switch would flop because why would anyone buy that underpowered thing when the PS4 exists with all its exclusives, and seem to think that each new generation starts on equal footing and that at any given new generation the xbox could suddenly outsell the playstation 3:1 if they just have some exclusive games.

Look I am a die-hard Xbox fan and it's my platform of choice. But hearing almost every person from the gaming media talking about the fact that there wasn't a showcase game out for the system definitely put a damper on the release of the system for me. I'm loving the system, but the lack of a title to show off the power of the system is a bit of a buzzkill.

Listening to gaming media is your first mistake. There are very few people in the gaming media industry that are worth listening to.
 
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petran79

Banned
I think what’s even worse is that he even makes it public and cries publicly like a little baby about it. Why even do this?
this just shows how toxic you are. If someone blocks me, I don’t make it public and complain about it. This is pathetic.
Just move on.

also, especially after that kind of behavior, I think there is a another side to the story.
We only know what jaffe said, but maybe something different happened? We don’t know. But complaining about it publicly, doesn’t show him in a good light.


I prefer open toxicity than brainwashing behind refined speech and closed doors.
 

teezzy

Banned
Look I am a die-hard Xbox fan and it's my platform of choice. But hearing almost every person from the gaming media talking about the fact that there wasn't a showcase game out for the system definitely put a damper on the release of the system for me. I'm loving the system, but the lack of a title to show off the power of the system is a bit of a buzzkill.

This. The lack of a single proper launch title is embarrassing. After months of Phil hyping up the Series X endlessly, they dont have a single game to showcase the console's raw power.

I'm as much of an Xbox fan boy as anyone here, and constantly go to bat for MS on this site, but I feel so bad for anyone who dropped $500 just to play Watch Dogs 3 or Assassins Creed Odyssey... but with Vikings!
 

MastaKiiLA

Member
I don't think that's their strategy, and I believe you're kind of missing the point.

Sure this is a new console launch, and sure they wanted a couple things with it, but at the same time their platform is just a rolling release now. It doesn't need a particular game to accompany the hardware, this is a quality of life improvement and keeping the ball rolling. It's like building a new PC, that's not some kind of event that begs brand new games, new hardware comes out and the party just keeps on rolling and software as it always does follows in its wake.

Games don't ever stop coming out, there's things to play, there's things coming to play and there will be thousands more. Hell most people haven't even cleared their PS4 and Xbox One backlogs. I'm playing Titanfall 2 and Mortal Kombat 11 right now.
I think this is not the way to grab the mass market, and that's ultimately what every platform maker is trying to do. I've dabbled in being a casual everytime my launch system either dies or is traded away. Back in the 90s, I was waiting for the N64, but the PSX grabbed my attention with their games. A staunch Nintendo head grabbed a PS1 back in 1995, and never really looked back. Street Fighter Alpha was the get for me then. After my PS2 died, I thought about grabbing another one, but went for a GC so I could try some Nintendo games I'd missed out on, like Zelda. B:G&E was also a good get with Mario Sunshine. With my PS4 traded, I didn't even think about getting an XB1. I'm switched to mobile gaming, which was becoming more popular for me even while I still had my PS4. It's a convenience thing while working at home.

Now, I'm going to get a PS5, as soon as it launches in SEA. It's really about the games. MM, DS, Sackboy, and NBA2k21. The first 3 can only be found on the PS, and the PS5 makes more sense than the PS4. The thought of getting an XSX never even crossed my mind. There are just no compelling games on it that would force a transition like from SNES to PSX, or PS2 to GC, or PS4 to mobile. I'm not difficult to please, freemium phone games have grabbed my attention. The XSX game catalog is lacking something XSX-exclusive that would make me stop and take notice. If you only look at it as a QoL bump, then you're looking only at the established XB userbase, which is already the smallest of the 3 manus. That's a recipe for repetition, and XB fans should know how the limited fanbase has as effect on the quality of the game catalog. The most next-gen games on the XSX look and play the same on the PS5. The most next-gen games on the PS5 are only available in that quality on the PS5, which makes purchasing that iteration of the brand an easy decision.

I find the GP model compelling, but at present it's lacking the kind of games that would actually trigger a purchase from me. Like most gamers, I only buy a single console at a time, so I'm going to be locked into the PS5 for the rest of the generation. I think that's why it's important to launch with some decent games, and pad out your first year, because there's the risk of losing out on those single-platform gamers who you won't be able to capture unless misfortune falls upon their machine. And now, with the proliferation of digital sales, many of those gamers will end up being tethered to the competitor's brand for years, if not generations. I'm going PS5DE, so a PS6 becomes almost a foregone conclusion. I say almost, because I did lose access to my PS4 gamer profile, which had over 40 digital games on it, and I'm not really upset about that. So there's still some potential for me to switch platforms in the future.
 

supernova8

Banned
Phil is in the right. Toxic people should just be ignored.

There's nothing to be gained by giving the spotlight to a person that can't make a criticism without using "shit" and "fuck" all the time.
Sounds like an edgy teenager talking

Meh he's just saying what a lot of us on GAF think in almost the exact words we're thinking it.

There's nothing wrong with asking "How could you not get a single exclusive game out when your competitor did?"
 
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The Alien

Banned
Wait...is someone telling me there is internet drama being vastly blown outta proportion?

Im gunna be right back....gotta grab me some poppycorn for this!!! 😐
 
Phil is in the right. Toxic people should just be ignored.

There's nothing to be gained by giving the spotlight to a person that can't make a criticism without using "shit" and "fuck" all the time.
Sounds like an edgy teenager talking

Funny, swearing is scientifically linked to -
  • higher intelligence
  • increased pain tolerance
  • varied emotional range e.g. passion or empathy
  • diverse vocabulary
Your move fuck-face.

/joke.
 

cireza

Member
I clicked on the second video, just to try to understand...

:messenger_neutral:

Can't believe that someone who is responsible for making big games in this industry actually fuels this stupid, childish console wars with such videos. It this for real ? Wow...
This is so embarrassing...
 

MrFunSocks

Banned
Funny, swearing is scientifically linked to -
  • higher intelligence
  • increased pain tolerance
  • varied emotional range e.g. passion or empathy
  • diverse vocabulary
Your move fuck-face.

/joke.
Whoever did that study must never have spent time in low social economic areas because that is not right.

just read a bit and it just says that smarter people can think of more swear words, not that they sweat more.
 
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BeardGawd

Banned
I completely agree with davidjaffe davidjaffe here.. But I'm sure Phil is under a ridiculous amount of stress. He basically single handedly saved the Xbox division after the XB1 dibocle. He spearheaded Game Pass which is basically the Netflix of games. He even convinced MS to invest billions in acquiring Zenimax which I'm sure was no small feat. They even knocked the hardware equation out the park and came up with an innovative 2 console approach. So while it sucks there's no exclusive software, MS has done sooo many other things right that I'm willing to give them a pass and just be patient. How often are launch games considered "great" anyway? They're usually rushed filler games that could have released on the previous console. Once all these studios start hitting on all cylinders this launch drought will be a thing of the past.
 
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jigglet

Banned
I don't even understand accusations of someone like him being a shill. He's not a Twitter celeb with a big following or anything. How much could MS even pay him? Like a few thousand bucks? Tens of thousands? The guy is likely a multi millionaire...yeah he's going to shill for a company for what amounts to pocket change for him. lol
 

SkylineRKR

Member
Jaffe is fully right. I have the same criticism. I bought the Series S, but almost solely for Gamepass while I wait for my PS5 to arrive someday. I knew what I was getting into, I usually only buy one system (which would've been PS5), the cheap S combined with GP won me over.

What am I playing? MCC, FH4, NG2 etc. Old games. Fun games, but old. I spoke to a friend who has the X, and what is he playing? SoR4, RE3 Remake. Those systems are great. Their basic functions, sheer speed and user friendliness are awesome. But its just that Series X has no Demon's Souls, Miles Morales or well, it doesn't have Halo Infinite, Gears 6, w/e. Even not a Shadow Fall, which wasn't good, but showed what the system was capable of.

Gamespass pretty much saves it. And the speed of the system, which makes the older systems painful. But PS5 has that as well, it just comes out a bit later. Spencer does a great job otherwise, he made the brand likeable again after that shithead left. But blocking? come on. How old are you.
 
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Airola

Member
Couldn't care less about God of War or any other combo-based action adventures, but for Twisted Metal 2 Jaffe gets my ass-kisser vote for anything. Hey Jaffe, re-release that on Steam and I'll buy it!
 
I clicked on the second video, just to try to understand...

:messenger_neutral:

Can't believe that someone who is responsible for making big games in this industry actually fuels this stupid, childish console wars with such videos. It this for real ? Wow...
This is so embarrassing...

Can't even tell if people are serious anymore, the video is satirical and mocks the idea of console wars or winning one.
 
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