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Covid 19 Thread: [no bitching about masks of Fauci edition]

JumpMan1981

Banned
No. At this point these people are basically saying "I won't wear a seatbelt because it's my choice!" and then they die in a minor car accident they would've survived if they just wore a seat belt.
And that's funny how?
Not sure I really get it.

It really seems like you are just tarring everyone who won't get a vaccine with the same brush.
You don't know where these people have been or what they've been through.

Depersonalize. Put your own spin on it. Then laugh because you think you have been proven right.
You STILL don't know where these people have been or what they've been through.

No empathy. No attempt to understand. Gloating at the expense of others.
If that's the kind of person you are then good for you. I'll just leave it there.
 

JumpMan1981

Banned
That’s ok, enjoy staying home till this thing goes away.
I'm vaccinated and wasn't staying home before I was anyway.
The only significant issue I've had with the pandemic was not being able to go to bars or restaurants.
Otherwise it's been business as usual.

For the first couple of weeks we were freaking out. Stockpiling food and water. I even bought a second refrigerator.
After that initial period we have had friends and relatives over (or have been visiting them) pretty much every week. We've got a decent bit of land so are able to have some modest gatherings. A few cases of covid among my family and social circles but nothing too serious.

Not everyone is sitting at home peering out from behind the curtains.

It really should just be up to individuals to make their own choices for their own reasons.
People laughing or joking because someone died as a consequence of their choices feels shitty to me but each to their own.
 

Jaysen

Banned
Thanks. Yeah, I just think it's part of the toxic nature of the internet but what kind of person laughs at people dying or getting sick and thinks that they are somehow coming across as the better person?

ManaByte ManaByte "Play stupid Facebook anti-vaxxer conspiracy games, win stupid prizes"

The truth is that I care about people who have a completely different worldview to me. I am vaccinated and they never will be but if they should die then I can make peace with the fact that they at least died while being true to themselves.

People have to make their own choices but gloating over people making the wrong choices and suffering the consequences is pure scumbag behavior.

I can't imagine how incredibly shallow someone's life must be if seeing people they disagree with dying is a source of joy.
“Won’t someone please think about the feelings of people spreading dangerous misinformation that ends up getting more and more people killed!”
 

ManaByte

Member
“Won’t someone please think about the feelings of people spreading dangerous misinformation that ends up getting more and more people killed!"

Exactly. It's almost as is them or someone close to them is doing exactly that and doesn't like the light being shined on those actions.
 
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JumpMan1981

Banned
He’s vaccinated you absolute goons. You two the exact kind of people he’s talking about.

I'm thinking was there something controversial about what I said?

Some people will not get vaccinated for their own reasons.
Largely I feel that it's not really any of my business so I just worry about myself.
Get vaccinated. Respect other people's choices.
 

Jaysen

Banned
I'm thinking was there something controversial about what I said?

Some people will not get vaccinated for their own reasons.
Largely I feel that it's not really any of my business so I just worry about myself.
Get vaccinated. Respect other people's choices.
Why would I respect someone making an idiotic choice? Motherfuckers had to get numerous vaccines throughout their life but the Covid vaccine is suddenly a bridge too far? And should I still respect the idiots who attempt to influence others to also make the same stupid choice based off of nothing but politics and conspiracy theories? Fuck those people.
 

JumpMan1981

Banned
Why would I respect someone making an idiotic choice? Motherfuckers had to get numerous vaccines throughout their life but the Covid vaccine is suddenly a bridge too far? And should I still respect the idiots who attempt to influence others to also make the same stupid choice based off of nothing but politics and conspiracy theories? Fuck those people.

This is really a far too aggressive response.
What's your problem?

I explained in my pervious post why one side of my family was staunchly anti-vax.

Enjoy your day.
 

Jaysen

Banned
This is really a far too aggressive response.
What's your problem?

I explained in my pervious post why one side of my family was staunchly anti-vax.

Enjoy your day.
And the people you see being mocked here are people who influence others to be as stupid as they are. Those are the people you’re defending. People who willfully endanger the lives of the gullible and naive.
 

JumpMan1981

Banned
And the people you see being mocked here are people who influence others to be as stupid as they are. Those are the people you’re defending. People who willfully endanger the lives of the gullible and naive.

What are you on about "defending"?
Look, let's just leave it. I'm not "defending" anyone.
You've obviously come into the conversation late, or maybe it's because I didn't reply for a few days, and don't know what you are talking about so let's just leave it.

Now I am extracting myself from the Covid thread. Cheers.
 
And the people you see being mocked here are people who influence others to be as stupid as they are. Those are the people you’re defending. People who willfully endanger the lives of the gullible and naive.
No one is advising or even defending anyone. You’re flying off the handle because people expect you to have a baseline level of respect for others where we don’t mock or gloat when bad things happen to other people. There’s no vaccine for being an asshole.
 

QSD

Member
No. At this point these people are basically saying "I won't wear a seatbelt because it's my choice!" and then they die in a minor car accident they would've survived if they just wore a seat belt.
I'll try this one more time. This analogy only holds, if, for example, the seatbelt manufacturers and the people that are supposed to provide them oversight had both been heavily implicated in thousands of car-related deaths over the last 20 years. Now would you please wear the seatbelt provided for you by these manufacturers with no questions asked?

this is basically my line of thinking:
All it takes to create a stereotypical anti-vaxxer is someone of average (or lower) intelligence, who is somewhat prone to magical thinking, and then for this person to read an article about or see a documentary about the opiate debacle in the us. The person will then end up with the fully justifiable feeling that both the pharma companies that propagated this and the authorities who looked the other way cannot be wholly trusted. Now all you need is some time on the internet and confirmation bias, seeking out info that further info that scaffolds your beliefs, and there you go. To my mind, it doesn't really matter whether these people believe that Bill Gates is a lizard who wants to implant them with chips or that millions are being secretly culled by the new world order. The original feeling of distrust of / disillusionment with authority is still justified. The original fault that created this atmosphere of paranoia still lies with the pharma companies and authorities that betrayed the trust that was placed in them. It is theirs to correct. If they had behaved conscientiously this epidemic of conspiratorial beliefs could never have found root.
 

FunkMiller

Member
I'll try this one more time. This analogy only holds, if, for example, the seatbelt manufacturers and the people that are supposed to provide them oversight had both been heavily implicated in thousands of car-related deaths over the last 20 years. Now would you please wear the seatbelt provided for you by these manufacturers with no questions asked?

this is basically my line of thinking:

Yep.

America's problem isn't really the minority of anti-vaxxers - but your broken, god awful, third world, greed driven healthcare system.

...oh, and slavish devotion to outdated religious belief systems, but that's another story.
 
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Kev Kev

Member
My heart goes to all the non-vaccinated:

Sad Tears GIF by Olivia Rodrigo
ok, enough of this crap, youre being a douche. the only reason to post shit like this is to dunk on people to make yourself feel better. youre just looking to pick a fight and its really childish.

if you want people to see your point or change their mind about getting vaccinated, posting shit like this is not the way to get there.
 
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SF Kosmo

Al Jazeera Special Reporter
With the Delta variant, it's estimated that you need 85% of the (susceptible) population to be immune, to achieve herd immunity. We have currently fully vaccinated only 55% of the population, so with 90% effectiveness, that's only 50% immunity achieved through vaccination (not taking into account the effect of the first dose). It hardly seems surprising that we are not there yet. (But cases seem to be plateauing already, before the effects of the re-opening are felt)

It looks like the vaccine figures for Gibraltar include parts of Spain, so you get a greater than 100% vaccination rate, and it's not clear what proportion of the inhabitants of Gibraltar received the vaccine. Again, with Delta even vaccinating 90% of the adult population may not be enough. And then Israel is actually a counterexample, since community transmission looked to have stopped completely until Delta arrived.

Edit: And to be clear, the conclusion to reach from the antibody figures, is that we shouldn't equate the presence of antibodies with immunity from infection.
The 85% figure largely applies to the adult population though. Kids already gave immunity levels comparable to vaccines. And you also have to factor in naturally acquired immunity. So there are definitely some places that have hit that level.
 

Chaplain

Member
Video: Is COVID 19 Vaccine Effective Against DELTA VARIANT? (7/24/21)



COVID 19 cases, hospitalizations, and deaths are on the rise again. Right now, there are 162 million Americans who are fully vaccinated. According to the CDC, less than two percent of people hospitalized with COVID 19 are vaccinated. And get this - 99.5% of people who die of COVID 19 did not get the vaccine. A COVID 19 breakthrough infection is defined as someone who tests positive for COVID 19, with a PCR test, at least 14 days after being fully vaccinated. Several reports of breakthrough infections have been reported at the White House, Congress, Olympics, Major League Baseball, and more. I’ve seen people with breakthrough infections in the ICU, but not nearly as much as COVID 19 patients in the ICU who did not get the vaccine. Stanford is among nearly 600 universities and colleges nationwide that have required students and faculty to be vaccinated against COVID 19 before coming back to campus this fall. Stanford 7 Vaccinated Students Get Symptomatic COVID 19 in a week span. Even before the delta variant showed up, we knew that the vaccines aren’t 100% effective. Based on the original studies, we knew that the mRNA vaccines with Pfizer and Moderna were about 95% effective at preventing severe COVID 19 illness. This means that percentage is even smaller when you’re talking about preventing mild or asymptomatic infections. But the important thing you want to know is how effective the vaccine is at preventing severe COVID 19 illness. But that 95% effectiveness was based on the original strain of COVID 19. Now, the scarier and more contagious Delta variant makes just about all the COVID 19 cases in the US. According to this recent study, when people are infected with Delta, they have about 1000 times more viruses than previous versions of the virus. So all that viral load has the potential to overwhelm the immune system of vaccinated people. Another study that was just published in the NEJM also showed that the delta variant is slightly more likely to cause breakthrough infections: Researchers found that after two doses of the Pfizer vaccine, it gave 88% protection against symptomatic disease caused by the delta variant, and that’s compared to 93% against the alpha variant that was first discovered in the UK. Both doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine offered 67% protection against symptomatic disease. We’re still waiting on published numbers for the Moderna vaccine, but according to the company, its vaccine remained effective against the different variants. The Johnson & Johnson vaccine might be less effective against the Delta and Lambda variants, but that study is yet to be published. It might be that those who received the J&J vaccine may need to get Pfizer or Moderna to protect against the new variants. So stay tuned on that. We know that those vaccinated have milder Covid 19 illness compared to unvaccinated if they become infected if they do become infected. This is based on another study published in the NEJM that looked at more than 3,900 essential workers. It shows that fully vaccinated people are more than 90% protected against infection. Even partially vaccinated people are 81% less likely to become infected than people who haven't had been inoculated. Vaccinated people appear to be less likely to spread the virus to others. Those who got "breakthrough" infections after one or two doses of vaccine had 40% less virus in their bodies and were 58% less likely to have fever. They spent two fewer days in bed compared to unvaccinated Covid 19 patients. Then there is the question, if you’re asymptomatic and have been vaccinated, can you still spread the virus to others? We know the vaccine reduces the likelihood of carrying the virus. And if you are carrying the virus, we know that there would otherwise be a reduced viral load. So overall, its less likely that you are transmitting the virus if you’re asymptomatic and you’ve been vaccinated. This is why the CDC says that fully vaccinated people still need to be tested if they have symptoms and shouldn't be out in public for at least 10 days after a positive test. This is actually being studied right now in 12,000 college students who received the Moderna vaccine. And what about those of you who are vaccinated, and you are concerned about getting a breakthrough infection? If you were to get COVID 19, it's way more likely to be a milder course of the disease if you are exposed to many people, especially if they’re not vaccinated; you can wear a mask. The kind of mask to wear is another topic, but even a regular face covering would still be better at decreasing transmission compared to no mask at all.
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RAÏSanÏa

Member
Getting my second vaxx next week. Wondering if going with a different mRNA vaccine(Moderna) might provide slightly better broader protection than a second shot of the same.

Pfizer with the first.

Figuring into the decision is the likelihood of a third mRNA vaxx coming sometime within the next 12months and choosing Pfizer for that one.


Models are back:

Lockdowns will follow now that we're going off models again.
With such large unvaxxed populations in country and worldwide new waves should be expected. It's good data is coming out to prep for those that will heed it in case reality follows the models. The pandemic is not over.

Something like around 85% is needed for herd immunity. 1st shot vaxx rates are slowing in my country and it looks like we'll fall well short of that if they get the second. It's around 71% now. If the unvaxxed go through a brutal wave of a viscious variant that is carried asympotomatically or with mild symptoms by the vaxxed it might motivate a few hesitant to get their shot and pump those numbers up in a hurry.
 

Cracklox

Member


This is beyond clown world stuff. The same politicians, media, law enforcement officials, twitter checkmarks etc who are demonizing these people protesting their freedoms, were all apparently ok in June of last year where 20,000+ gathered in these same cities for BLM protests. Protests that have sweet fuck all to do with anything going on in Australia. That was also a few months into this whole Covid thing, where there was alot that still wasn't understood about the virus, and obviously a long way before any vaccine availability.

Now, you have state premiers literally describing people who attend these as evil. You have heavy handed police forcefully restraining people and handing out as many fines as they can. And of course the media creating a song and dance about 'a super spreader event' (my favorite term out of all this tbh. I lol every time i hear it).

Yet none of that occurred a year or so ago, when people wanted to march for a lefty cause. It's like the politicians and media think we're all goldfish who don't remember these things.

And still, there's a lot of people out there who wonder why so many people are skeptical about the way this whole thing has been handled. Especially here, where we've basically become the laughing stock for the rest of the world
 
Aaaargh! The delta variant is much worse! The vaccines don't work against it! The UK will be up to 100,000 cases and we'll be back in lock -

bh5RT8z.jpg


...oh.
Man its almost like whether its the scary danish variant, the scary New York variant, the scary UK variant, the scary South African variant, the scary Brazil variant, and now the scary Indian variant, all waves spike and then die down eventually because its fucking nature and thats how viruses work. I gotta find some acrobatics around this because saying "the pandemic is never going away" makes me feel superior and smarter than people online.
 

Aesius

Member
This is beyond clown world stuff. The same politicians, media, law enforcement officials, twitter checkmarks etc who are demonizing these people protesting their freedoms, were all apparently ok in June of last year where 20,000+ gathered in these same cities for BLM protests. Protests that have sweet fuck all to do with anything going on in Australia. That was also a few months into this whole Covid thing, where there was alot that still wasn't understood about the virus, and obviously a long way before any vaccine availability.

Now, you have state premiers literally describing people who attend these as evil. You have heavy handed police forcefully restraining people and handing out as many fines as they can. And of course the media creating a song and dance about 'a super spreader event' (my favorite term out of all this tbh. I lol every time i hear it).

Yet none of that occurred a year or so ago, when people wanted to march for a lefty cause. It's like the politicians and media think we're all goldfish who don't remember these things.

And still, there's a lot of people out there who wonder why so many people are skeptical about the way this whole thing has been handled. Especially here, where we've basically become the laughing stock for the rest of the world
Remember when some media outlets tried to spin the BLM protests as DECREASING the spread of COVID?
 
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Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Say you have 10 infected people enter a susceptible population. The reproductive number, R0 tells you how many people on average those infected individuals will go on to infect, before they recover. If they manage to infect no additional people (R=0), the virus dies straight away. If each individual manages to infect 1 other person on average (R=1) then that initial population of 10 infected will infect another 10, who will infect another 10 and so on. In that case, the virus is growing linearly in the population (10x per time period), but the number of currently infected individuals will remain at 10.

Now if each individual manages to infect less than 1 individual on average (R<1), then those 10 infected individuals will not be able to infect another 10. They may only infect 9 before they recover. Well, those 9 individuals may only be to infect another 8, and so on. In this case, the number of currently infected individuals would be continuously reducing and eventually the virus will die completely. So when we say we want to achieve herd immunity, what we really mean is want infected individuals only to be able to infect less than 1 person on average, so that all outbreaks of the virus eventually die out.

Vaccines can achieve this, by reducing the number of susceptible individuals an infected person comes in contact with. Say R0=5, because an infected individual comes in contact with 10 susceptible individuals on average and infects half of them. Now suppose that half the population is immune to transmitting the virus. In this case, each infected individual will only come across 5 susceptible individuals, so we have effectively reduced R to 2.5. Now what we really want is a formula that will tell us what proportion of the population needs to be immune, in order for R<1. That formula is

1 - 1/R0

Where R0 is the reproductive number in a 100% susceptible population. (As we have seen the reproductive number in practice –sometimes called Rt – reduces as people become immune). There is quite an accessible explanation of how the formula is derived here:


So, to answer your question, the 85% is derived from having an estimated R0 of 20/3: 1 - 1/20/3 = 0.85


Every inhabitant, or every adult inhabitant? I saw that Gibraltar was ready to start vaccinating children, but haven't seen any confirmation that it has gone ahead.

But suppose that every susceptible member of the population has been vaccinated, including children, and the incidence of the virus in the population is still increasing. What does that show? Well, that there are not enough individuals immune to transmission, to hit the herd immunity threshold. If that threshold is really 85%, then perhaps the effectiveness of the vaccines is less than anticipated. But the key takeaway is that every individual who has been given immunity through vaccination is one less individual that needs to be infected to reach that 85% threshold. So it's completely wrong to think that just because they may not be sufficient to achieve herd immunity in a population, vaccines do nothing to limit spread.

The other thing to think about is that R0 is not a fixed quantity but varies depending on the interconnectedness of the population. And Gibraltar has the 5th greatest population density in the world. So the 20/3 figure that was estimated for R0 probably doesn't apply to Gibraltar at all. It could be 10 or more, and in that case, you would need at least 90% of the population immune. So in that case even if you vaccinated everyone, if the efficiency of the vaccine dropped below 90%, the virus would start spreading again.



Or that you have some level of immunity through vaccination, which we know can be variable.

All good and cleanly laid out information, but I imagine everyone still posting in this thread knows about R0. I was more wondering how it was predicted that Delta requires 85% "herd immunity" to see its spread reduced. Based on what? The viral load? As you point out with Gibraltar, population density will heavily determine how frequently people come into contact with each other. So will freedom of movement and many other factors, so it seems pretty crazy to estimate the required herd immunity for a specific strain when a huge part of that equation is going to come down to how frequently people interact with each other.

Anyway, I am still curious how immunity is defined in these equations. In reality, for the purposes of R0, I imagine it has to be an after-the-fact determination of whether or not the person got infected by someone else to the point that they were also contagious to others. The jury is still very much out on whether or not these vaccines (not to be confused with vaccines for other diseases) do that to a sufficient degree, especially with reports that the Delta variant is detectable faster after infection and has a much larger viral load (up to 1,000x factor compared to previous variants), not to mention the news out of Israel that indicates efficacy against infection and spread may be fading rapidly with time.
 
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Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Aaaargh! The delta variant is much worse! The vaccines don't work against it! The UK will be up to 100,000 cases and we'll be back in lock -

bh5RT8z.jpg


...oh.

Hopefully this trend keeps up, but it sure is looking like the UK strategy was the right one despite the screeches from scaremonger "experts" who wanted lockdowns for another year (more like forever).
 
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Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Why would I respect someone making an idiotic choice? Motherfuckers had to get numerous vaccines throughout their life but the Covid vaccine is suddenly a bridge too far? And should I still respect the idiots who attempt to influence others to also make the same stupid choice based off of nothing but politics and conspiracy theories? Fuck those people.

Do you apply that to everything else in life? I guess that means you can't respect over 70% of Americans because they made idiotic choices and decided to be fat and unhealthy.

You have decided that these COVID vaccines are no different from the vaccines that came before, but that does not make it true. Still, you have decided that is the truth and anyone who doesn't get with the program is an idiot. That's on you.
 

FunkMiller

Member
Hopefully this trend keeps up, but it sure is looking like the UK strategy was the right one despite the screeches from scaremonger "experts" who wanted lockdowns for another year (more like forever).

I don't think we ever had many long term lockdown screechers here, thankfully. Mostly it was people saying the end of lockdown should have been held off until everyone in the UK had two doses of the jab (so, end of next month/start of September). The government decided it was better to have the delta wave now in the summer, as schools are about to break up and the weather is ok, than wait until autumn when it's more likely to spread faster. If figures continue the way they are going, they will have been proved right.
 
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Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
I don't think we ever had many long term lockdown screechers here, thankfully. Mostly it was people saying the end of lockdown should have been held off until everyone in the UK had two doses of the jab (so, end of next month/start of September). The government decided it was better to have the delta wave now in the summer, as schools are about to break up and the weather is ok, than wait until autumn when it's more likely to spread faster. If figures continue the way they are going, they will have been proved right.

This is part of what that letter demanded, which had that crazy communist woman who wanted the restrictions to go on forever as a signatory:

'Instead, the Government should delay complete reopening until everyone, including adolescents, have been offered vaccination and uptake is high, and until mitigation measures, especially adequate ventilation (through investment in carbon dioxide monitors and air filtration devices) and spacing (eg by reducing class sizes), are in place in schools.'

The UK has no plans to offer the vaccine to adolescents, and furthermore, you cannot guarantee that uptake is high unless you start mandating and even physically forcing people to get the vaccine. Their demands were unrealistic beyond belief.
 

FireFly

Member
All good and cleanly laid out information, but I imagine everyone still posting in this thread knows about R0. I was more wondering how it was predicted that Delta requires 85% "herd immunity" to see its spread reduced. Based on what? The viral load? As you point out with Gibraltar, population density will heavily determine how frequently people come into contact with each other. So will freedom of movement and many other factors, so it seems pretty crazy to estimate the required herd immunity for a specific strain when a huge part of that equation is going to come down to how frequently people interact with each other.
It's not a "prediction"; it's a property of the mathematical model of disease spread, which divides the population into susceptible, infected and recovered, assumes that everyone has in principle an equal chance to be infected, and asks what proportion need to be immune for the rate of new infections to be less than the rate of recoveries.

As I said, the 85% comes from plugging a value of 20/3 (~6.666) for R0 in the formula 1 - 1/R0. So the only thing that needs to be estimated is R0, which varies per population group. Baked into R0 is the idea that each person will on average meet X number of people and will infect Y proportion of them. That X and Y will be different for different places within the same country, and of course between different countries. So it's not some fixed constant, but a constantly varying factor. There will be a different R0 in summer vs winter, for example.
 
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QSD

Member
This is part of what that letter demanded, which had that crazy communist woman who wanted the restrictions to go on forever as a signatory:

'Instead, the Government should delay complete reopening until everyone, including adolescents, have been offered vaccination and uptake is high, and until mitigation measures, especially adequate ventilation (through investment in carbon dioxide monitors and air filtration devices) and spacing (eg by reducing class sizes), are in place in schools.'

The UK has no plans to offer the vaccine to adolescents, and furthermore, you cannot guarantee that uptake is high unless you start mandating and even physically forcing people to get the vaccine. Their demands were unrealistic beyond belief.
Hmmm I'm actually strongly in favour of reducing class sizes on the 'improving education for the 21st century' front, so I can see this being seen as an opportunity to push that through on a different rationale. Just a side note, though.
 
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Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
It's not a "prediction"; it's a property of the mathematical model of disease spread, which divides the population into susceptible, infected and recovered, assumes that everyone has in principle an equal chance to be infected, and asks what proportion need to be immune for the rate of new infections to be less than the rate of recoveries.

As I said, the 85% comes from plugging a value of 20/3 (~6.666) for R0 in the formula 1 - 1/R0. So the only thing that needs to be estimated is R0, which varies per population group. Baked into R0 is the idea that each person will on average meet X number of people and will infect Y proportion of them. That X and Y will be different for different places within the same country, and of course between different countries. So it's not some fixed constant, but a constantly varying factor. There will be a different R0 in summer vs winter, for example.

Through simple observation, however, we know that not everyone has an equal chance or likelihood to be infected and spread the virus. So right from the get go, the assumption is wrong. Any further modeling will not be accurate.
 
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So not spewing anti-vaxxer conspiracy theories in this thread is now trolling?

Weren't you the guy who constantly posted "coronavirus isn't real" articles ripped from twitter/Facebook and other things that severely downplayed the realities of covid around this time last year? I was glad to see you come along eventually but now what makes you the authority on what is and isn't misinformation. You just flipped to the other end of the argument. Why not show some humility and stop pretending you have all the answers?
 

FireFly

Member
Through simple observation, however, we know that not everyone has an equal chance or likelihood to be infected and spread the virus. So right from the get go, the assumption is wrong. Any further modeling will not be accurate.
I like the expression "All models are wrong, but some are useful".

The fact that certain people are more likely to spread the virus means that immunity for those people is more important, and it also potentially lowers the herd immunity threshold in the population as whole (since superspreaders "count" for more). But it doesn't do anything to undermine the idea that there is a certain threshold of immunity beyond which the virus is not able to spread.

"In some cases it will make the threshold higher. This could be true in places like nursing homes, where the average person might be more susceptible to COVID-19 than the average person in the broader population.

But on a larger scale, heterogeneity typically lowers the herd immunity threshold. At first the virus infects people who are more susceptible and spreads quickly. But to keep spreading, the virus has to move on to people who are less susceptible. This makes it harder for the virus to spread, so the epidemic grows more slowly than you might have anticipated based on its initial rate of growth.

“The first person is going to be likely to infect the people who are most susceptible to begin with, leaving the people who are less susceptible toward the latter half of the epidemic, meaning the infection could be eliminated sooner than you’d expect,” Lipsitch said.

 

Jaysen

Banned
Do you apply that to everything else in life? I guess that means you can't respect over 70% of Americans because they made idiotic choices and decided to be fat and unhealthy.

You have decided that these COVID vaccines are no different from the vaccines that came before, but that does not make it true. Still, you have decided that is the truth and anyone who doesn't get with the program is an idiot. That's on you.
It’s actually on the poor idiots who die because of their own idiocy.
 
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Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
It’s actually on the poor idiots who die because of their own idiocy.

It's on idiots that die of their own idiocy that you are convinced the currently available COVID vaccines are no different from traditional vaccines? That's a bit odd...
 
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