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Covid 19 Thread: [no bitching about masks of Fauci edition]

That's the same group of nutcases who gave a press conference last year saying COVID was a hoax. That will be thrown out by the judge.

I don't remember the hoax part, they were mostly talking about hq and that the vaccine is an experiment. I believe one of them practices homeopothy or such nonesense.

Not sure why but a congressman was the one that introduced them and gave them a platform. Would appreciate it if someone could tell me who that congressman was. Could not find the full original conference.
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
I didn't made up these terms my man. The fact that there are two classifications called leaky vaccines and so called "perfect" vaccines like for example mumps just shows you can't place them under the same umbrella.

I've never heard of those terms, but I'll take your word for it. Though the mumps vaccine is 88% effective, not 100%
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
The Delta variant already has a low enough CFR that it shouldn't be considered a deadly pandemic anymore in countries where it is dominant if you ask me.

I do wonder what the exit criteria are for countries like Israel and the UK. It seems like they still see Zero COVID as the only way out.

UK government has said that we have to live with covid from now on. No zero covid policy in UK. The way out is to have as many people vaccinated as possible, so the virus is effectively flattened as a threat to the NHS. It'll become like the flu. That's the aim. Zero covid is completely impossible.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
Zero covid is completely impossible.
Australia:
GIF by memecandy
 

WoJ

Member
You're describing the way pretty much every serious respiratory virus is handled in society. We literally give millions upon millions of people flu vaccines every year. Employment law requires sick leave be given to employees.

You're not right about internal vaccine passports. They won't be a thing once enough of the world is vaccinated against covid. They spent years after Spanish Flu being careful. But that went away once the pandemic threat went away.

And we have vaccine requirements for passports for multiple diseases when you travel. Maybe you don't travel too much, but I've been jabbed for loads of things over the years.

The fact is, we get these pandemics in human society. They come, they go. They fade into the background.

The only difference with this one is social fucking media and it's amplification of stupidity, melodrama and false information. The vaccines work. In two or three years you won't even be thinking about covid.
There is a lot I have disagreed with you regarding covid but this right here is the absolute spot on truth.
 

vpance

Member
That's the same group of nutcases who gave a press conference last year saying COVID was a hoax. That will be thrown out by the judge.



That Politifact article, lol. Of course her methods for calculating the numbers aren't immediately revealed. The public will have to wait til the trial is done.

There won't be a trial.

I think it'll happen. Apparently the judge presiding over the case is favorable for the plantiff. It's in Alabama, ofc.

The CDC whistleblower also adds another wrinkle to the situation.
 
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ManaByte

Gold Member
That Politifact article, lol. Of course her methods for calculating the numbers aren't immediately revealed. The public will have to wait til the trial is done.
Again there won't be a trial. The judge will throw it out due to the nutcases behind it before even getting to her made up numbers.
 

thefool

Member
And I don't think people online realize how big the disconnect is in many respects.

(sorry for cutting most of your post but i wanted to highlight this part).

This is very real and goes much beyond Corona tho. The internet created a new layer of existence, a substrate where some people live and consume their reality. Corona became a potent mix where this lifestyle became vindicated as the healthy and right one, so it was expected that whoever doesn't abide by this new existence gets to be vilified. But this is also a big reason why the news have justified to go on this rampage, fear-mongering and mass-reporting for months and months, trying to get into whoever lives outside of that information-exchange-bubble and is less aware of the situation.

Someone asked a few pages ago, when does this end, and the answer should be...now. Risk groups have been mostly vaccinated, there's absolutely no reason for the news to not tone it down, especially now that we know the first generation of vaccines are not that great at preventing infection (no matter how many times the cdc tried to hide it for a few weeks) but they are pretty decent at reducing hospitalizations and death. The west (mostly europe and the us) just need to decide to move forward and take the last step which is to block the movements of the south hemisphere onto the north (which is, obviously, going to be unpopular) but giving them the tools to get inoculated.
 
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Cyberpunkd

Member
France is at 22.5k daily cases but the hospital numbers are still dropping…fingers crossed.

160 000 in France protested today against the vaccinations ans the vaccine pass because they have nothing else to do.

Might go and watch a movie, barely anyone is there since the pass is required as well.
 
That's the same group of nutcases who gave a press conference last year saying COVID was a hoax. That will be thrown out by the judge.


thank god for that brave whistleblower telling us the truth. It is definitely possible that tens of thousands of doctors have covered up the fact that their hospitals have been overrun by people dying of the vaccine. 10/10 Quality conspiracy theory!

It’s like the conspiracy theorists aren’t even trying
 

Cyberpunkd

Member
You really think that most people protesting digital vaccine passports are doing so just because they are bored?
In France, where newborns get 11 obligatory vaccinations and government paid you for months to sit on your ass at home? Yeah.
Although on second thought maybe that’s the goal - we close again and they can get support money for longer?
 
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thefool

Member
What would be extremely interestingly to assess is how individuals who have been infected compare with vaccinated ones, but it's almost like big pharma doesn't want to study that.

Been trying to find more info about this (such a strange important data that has been missing from most reporting) and came across this new and recent article published by the cdc:

Breakthrough Infections of SARS-CoV-2 Gamma Variant in Fully Vaccinated Gold Miners, French Guiana, 2021

On May 31, 2021, a gold miner tested positive for severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) at the Cacao health center, French Guiana. He worked in a legal gold mine located 72 km from Cayenne (including 13 km of forest trail) in the Amazon Forest. Other workers from the same site were reported as symptomatic, although a large part of this specific population had benefited from complete coronavirus disease (COVID-19) vaccination in the previous month. A medical team went on site to investigate, examine, and screen the 44 employees of the mine. We describe results of the outbreak investigation.

Some interesting conclusions before we get to the juicy part:

  • around 60% of the miners fully vaccinated were infected by the gamma variant vs 75% of the unvaccinated one, which is in line with our new expectations. Vaccination doesn't really prevent infection very effectively but it's still a bit better than unvaccinated ones (sadly, nowhere near as good as we hoped).
  • Of the infected, none developed severe form of the disease but 87%(!) developed relevant symptoms

Now, on the table with the breakdown is where we get the juicy part:

Out of the 44 miners, 3 out of 4 of the unvaccinated got the infection, 21 out of 34 vaccinated did get it and 6 out of 6 didn't get it (!).

Now if you're wondering if there's an unique characteristic of these 6, the good news is that...there is!. All 6 have been previously infected (3 of those also got the first dose, and 3 no vaccines). Our immunity system is indeed fucking awesome and you might have read (like I did) articles about our immunity system that could probably be written by George Lucas and his midichlorians count but with antibodies instead, but make no mistake...we are indeed an awesome species!
 
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ManaByte

Gold Member
thank god for that brave whistleblower telling us the truth. It is definitely possible that tens of thousands of doctors have covered up the fact that their hospitals have been overrun by people dying of the vaccine. 10/10 Quality conspiracy theory!

It’s like the conspiracy theorists aren’t even trying

Even more laughable are the people who seriously believe any judge is going to put a sitting cabinet member on trial based on that.
 
Been trying to find more info about this (such a strange important data that has been missing from most reporting) and came across this new and recent article published by the cdc:

Breakthrough Infections of SARS-CoV-2 Gamma Variant in Fully Vaccinated Gold Miners, French Guiana, 2021



Some interesting conclusions before we get to the juicy part:

  • around 60% of the miners fully vaccinated were infected by the gamma variant vs 75% of the unvaccinated one, which is in line with our new expectations. Vaccination doesn't really prevent infection very effectively but it's still a bit better than unvaccinated ones (sadly, nowhere near as good as we hoped).
  • Of the infected, none developed severe form of the disease but 87%(!) developed relevant symptoms

Now, on the table with the breakdown is where we get the juicy part:

Out of the 44 miners, 3 out of 4 of the unvaccinated got the infection, 21 out of 34 vaccinated did get it and 6 out of 6 didn't get it (!).

Now if you're wondering is there's an unique characteristic of these 6, the good news is that...there is!. All 6 have been previously infected (3 of those also got the first dose, and 3 no vaccines). Our immunity system is indeed fucking awesome and you might have read (like I did) articles about our immunity system that could probably be written by George Lucas and his midichlorians count but with antibodies instead, but make no mistake...we are indeed an awesome species!
I’ve been wondering the for a while. We have completely stopped asking whether previously infected people are being reinfected. We are seeing thousand of vaccine breakthroughs. You’d think we would see thousands of reinfections as well. But no one seems to want to ask that question. I remember in the not too distance past having everyone including the best doctor on Earth, Anthony Fauci, saying vaccines were better than natural immunity. Turns out no, it would seem.
 
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Alx

Member
In France, where newborns get 11 obligatory vaccinations and government paid you for months to sit on your ass at home? Yeah.
Although on second thought maybe that’s the goal - we close again and they can get support money for longer?
They’re the usual Macron opponents/haters, whatever strategy the government would have chosen, they’d be complaining about it. Not enough masks ? Complain. Masks required ? Complain. Not enough vaccines or vaccines coming too fast, not locking up or unlocking too early/too late, … ? Complain.
At one point some of them were even confused that D. Raoult said he was supporting vaccines, because they expect « their team » to be against whatever the government proposes.
 
France is at 22.5k daily cases but the hospital numbers are still dropping…fingers crossed.

160 000 in France protested today against the vaccinations ans the vaccine pass because they have nothing else to do.

Might go and watch a movie, barely anyone is there since the pass is required as well.
Dude, 22k daily case is kind of insane. if it keep up i would be 500k a month
 

FireFly

Member
We need to give up on the idea that these vaccines can induce herd immunity or even help make it a reality. It's clearly not panning out.

Over 90% of people in the UK now have antibodies whether through natural infection or vaccination. There is clearly no herd immunity. Look to Israel with their high vaccination rate. No herd immunity.

Look to Gibraltar with its 100% vaccination rate. Their cases are now rising.

It will not happen because it cannot happen. This will be common sense by the end of winter.
With the Delta variant, it's estimated that you need 85% of the (susceptible) population to be immune, to achieve herd immunity. We have currently fully vaccinated only 55% of the population, so with 90% effectiveness, that's only 50% immunity achieved through vaccination (not taking into account the effect of the first dose). It hardly seems surprising that we are not there yet. (But cases seem to be plateauing already, before the effects of the re-opening are felt)

It looks like the vaccine figures for Gibraltar include parts of Spain, so you get a greater than 100% vaccination rate, and it's not clear what proportion of the inhabitants of Gibraltar received the vaccine. Again, with Delta even vaccinating 90% of the adult population may not be enough. And then Israel is actually a counterexample, since community transmission looked to have stopped completely until Delta arrived.

Edit: And to be clear, the conclusion to reach from the antibody figures, is that we shouldn't equate the presence of antibodies with immunity from infection.
 
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D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
With the Delta variant, it's estimated that you need 85% of the (susceptible) population to be immune, to achieve herd immunity. We have currently fully vaccinated only 55% of the population, so with 90% effectiveness, that's only 50% immunity achieved through vaccination (not taking into account the effect of the first dose). It hardly seems surprising that we are not there yet. (But cases seem to be plateauing already, before the effects of the re-opening are felt)

It looks like the vaccine figures for Gibraltar include parts of Spain, so you get a greater than 100% vaccination rate, and it's not clear what proportion of the inhabitants of Gibraltar received the vaccine. Again, with Delta even vaccinating 90% of the adult population may not be enough. And then Israel is actually a counterexample, since community transmission looked to have stopped completely until Delta arrived.

Edit: And to be clear, the conclusion to reach from the antibody figures, is that we shouldn't equate the presence of antibodies with immunity from infection.

Who estimates 85% and and how? Furthermore, how is immunity defined?

What do you mean it's not clear what proportion of the inhabitants of Gibraltar received the vaccine? The official announcements claim every inhabitant as well as people who frequently travel into their borders.

Of course simply having antibodies does not mean nothing will happen to you when you encounter the virus again, but it is a strong indication that you have been exposed to the virus before.
 
Hello comrades, reporting in.

The people’s vaccine is strong like bear. The shakes and chills keep me cool even on this hot summer day, glory to Biden! I used to doubt but now I am a true believer in the people’s Science.

But yeah seriously, I feel dizzy and bad, that’s just the nanomachines working right?
 

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion

Hello comrades, reporting in.

The people’s vaccine is strong like bear. The shakes and chills keep me cool even on this hot summer day, glory to Biden! I used to doubt but now I am a true believer in the people’s Science.

But yeah seriously, I feel dizzy and bad, that’s just the nanomachines working right?
No it's just the nanomachines having a bad reaction to the Delta Variant that the 5G towers are trying to give you.

Easiest way to fix it is to unplug your microwave for 30 seconds and then plug it back in again in order to reset the transmitters in your house. Then just drink 3 bud lights in order to flush the SJW particles from your blood.


Repeat this process at the nearest full moon once you have had your second dose.
 

Cyberpunkd

Member
Dude, 22k daily case is kind of insane. if it keep up i would be 500k a month
People just don’t care, that was the case since the pandemic. You lock down, infection drop, you open up people resume as nothing happened, infections rise and then people say ‘well, guess we need to lock down again’ without actually admitting this was cause by them.

The government put in place a few measures regarding vaccine pass - it went into effect on the 21st, movie attendance already dropped 70%. It will be extended to more activities on August 1st, including going to bars and restaurants. Still, the predictions are 100k cases per day in August.
Unfortunately even current situation is making some people stupid - the mayor of Nice annonces on Friday all kids in childcare and summer activity classes are supposed to be tested for Covid (note that the vaccine is not even available for below 12 years old), fortunately the idea lasted a single day .

France is also doing around 800k vaccine shots per day.
 
People just don’t care, that was the case since the pandemic. You lock down, infection drop, you open up people resume as nothing happened, infections rise and then people say ‘well, guess we need to lock down again’ without actually admitting this was cause by them.

The government put in place a few measures regarding vaccine pass - it went into effect on the 21st, movie attendance already dropped 70%. It will be extended to more activities on August 1st, including going to bars and restaurants. Still, the predictions are 100k cases per day in August.
Unfortunately even current situation is making some people stupid - the mayor of Nice annonces on Friday all kids in childcare and summer activity classes are supposed to be tested for Covid (note that the vaccine is not even available for below 12 years old), fortunately the idea lasted a single day .

France is also doing around 800k vaccine shots per day.
I do not understand.... won't testing for cvoid be... a good thing? 100k a day.. it would only be a matter of time before Delta mutate again.
 
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Cyberpunkd

Member
I do not understand.... won't testing for cvoid be... a good thing?
It depends. Note that kids almost always are asymptomatic. They cannot legally get the vaccine yet. A lot of parents rely on childcare and summer activities camps to get work done - I have a 1 and a 3 year old and I cannot work with them at home, they are not autonomous enough to play on their own. So basically the mayor just doesn’t want to deal with kids contaminating other people (not kids), but that is not the fault of parents, but rather government’s vaccination efforts I.e. if everyone except kids was vaccinated you don’t actually care if they contaminate others.

As for the number of cases- I’m pretty sure in reality India is much higher for months now, also China most likely massively underrepresented the number of their cases (they listed them at 81k in total for a country of 1.3bln - really?). If the virus mutates it won’t be because of France.
 
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It depends. Note that kids almost always are asymptomatic. They cannot legally get the vaccine yet. A lot of parents rely on childcare and summer activities camps to get work done - I have a 1 and a 3 year old and I cannot work with them at home, they are not autonomous enough to play on their own. So basically the mayor just doesn’t want to deal with kids contaminating other people (not kids), but that is not the fault of parents, but rather government’s vaccination efforts I.e. if everyone except kids was vaccinated you don’t actually care if they contaminate others.

As for the number of cases- I’m pretty sure in reality India is much higher for months now, also China most likely massively underrepresented the number of their cases (they listed them at 81k in total for a country of 1.3bln - really?). If the virus mutates it won’t be because of France.
That basically avoiding the hard truth, but people pretend otherwise since it would be inconvinent for them. Remember how people mock Trump when he say stop doing so much test. This is essential the same thing.
 

Cyberpunkd

Member
That basically avoiding the hard truth, but people pretend otherwise since it would be inconvinent for them. Remember how people mock Trump when he say stop doing so much test. This is essential the same thing.
The annoying part are the media driving this. Everyday the headline reads something like: ‘25k new cases, another record’, but then you click on the article and buried are the numbers for people hospitalised and in ICU, which continue to drop.

To give you an idea France now has 878 people in ICU, the peak at one point was 6 000.
 

sinnergy

Member
The annoying part are the media driving this. Everyday the headline reads something like: ‘25k new cases, another record’, but then you click on the article and buried are the numbers for people hospitalised and in ICU, which continue to drop.

To give you an idea France now has 878 people in ICU, the peak at one point was 6 000.
Doesn’t really matter .. it’s about infections because we travel so much and infect people in countries that have low hospitalizations .. or have low immunity,that’s why infections are a important metric for the world .. we are one world .

For individual countries they have lay way to open up for example .. but the population of that country could see restrictions when traveling the world.
 
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Kev Kev

Member
I don’t think my vaccine was strong enough, I can’t feel shit. Might need to go back to CVS and get another hit or two of that stuff

This is like when I used to do drugs, and I’d be sitting around waiting for it to kick in, but nothing happens so I take more and then it all hit me an hour later and I’m waaaay too fucked up 😂
 

QSD

Member
Hello comrades, reporting in.

The people’s vaccine is strong like bear. The shakes and chills keep me cool even on this hot summer day, glory to Biden! I used to doubt but now I am a true believer in the people’s Science.

But yeah seriously, I feel dizzy and bad, that’s just the nanomachines working right?
Comrade Baron! (there is a paradox in there somewhere...) Which vaccine did you get?
 

FireFly

Member
Who estimates 85% and and how? Furthermore, how is immunity defined?

What do you mean it's not clear what proportion of the inhabitants of Gibraltar received the vaccine? The official announcements claim every inhabitant as well as people who frequently travel into their borders.

Of course simply having antibodies does not mean nothing will happen to you when you encounter the virus again, but it is a strong indication that you have been exposed to the virus before.
Say you have 10 infected people enter a susceptible population. The reproductive number, R0 tells you how many people on average those infected individuals will go on to infect, before they recover. If they manage to infect no additional people (R=0), the virus dies straight away. If each individual manages to infect 1 other person on average (R=1) then that initial population of 10 infected will infect another 10, who will infect another 10 and so on. In that case, the virus is growing linearly in the population (10x per time period), but the number of currently infected individuals will remain at 10.

Now if each individual manages to infect less than 1 individual on average (R<1), then those 10 infected individuals will not be able to infect another 10. They may only infect 9 before they recover. Well, those 9 individuals may only be to infect another 8, and so on. In this case, the number of currently infected individuals would be continuously reducing and eventually the virus will die completely. So when we say we want to achieve herd immunity, what we really mean is want infected individuals only to be able to infect less than 1 person on average, so that all outbreaks of the virus eventually die out.

Vaccines can achieve this, by reducing the number of susceptible individuals an infected person comes in contact with. Say R0=5, because an infected individual comes in contact with 10 susceptible individuals on average and infects half of them. Now suppose that half the population is immune to transmitting the virus. In this case, each infected individual will only come across 5 susceptible individuals, so we have effectively reduced R to 2.5. Now what we really want is a formula that will tell us what proportion of the population needs to be immune, in order for R<1. That formula is

1 - 1/R0

Where R0 is the reproductive number in a 100% susceptible population. (As we have seen the reproductive number in practice –sometimes called Rt – reduces as people become immune). There is quite an accessible explanation of how the formula is derived here:


So, to answer your question, the 85% is derived from having an estimated R0 of 20/3: 1 - 1/20/3 = 0.85

What do you mean it's not clear what proportion of the inhabitants of Gibraltar received the vaccine? The official announcements claim every inhabitant as well as people who frequently travel into their borders.
Every inhabitant, or every adult inhabitant? I saw that Gibraltar was ready to start vaccinating children, but haven't seen any confirmation that it has gone ahead.

But suppose that every susceptible member of the population has been vaccinated, including children, and the incidence of the virus in the population is still increasing. What does that show? Well, that there are not enough individuals immune to transmission, to hit the herd immunity threshold. If that threshold is really 85%, then perhaps the effectiveness of the vaccines is less than anticipated. But the key takeaway is that every individual who has been given immunity through vaccination is one less individual that needs to be infected to reach that 85% threshold. So it's completely wrong to think that just because they may not be sufficient to achieve herd immunity in a population, vaccines do nothing to limit spread.

The other thing to think about is that R0 is not a fixed quantity but varies depending on the interconnectedness of the population. And Gibraltar has the 5th greatest population density in the world. So the 20/3 figure that was estimated for R0 probably doesn't apply to Gibraltar at all. It could be 10 or more, and in that case, you would need at least 90% of the population immune. So in that case even if you vaccinated everyone, if the efficiency of the vaccine dropped below 90%, the virus would start spreading again.


Of course simply having antibodies does not mean nothing will happen to you when you encounter the virus again, but it is a strong indication that you have been exposed to the virus before.
Or that you have some level of immunity through vaccination, which we know can be variable.
 
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JumpMan1981

Banned
Yeah I was making this point yesterday to my sister, there might be people with a personal history with medications or vaccinations that makes them wary. There really can be all kinds of reasons people hesitate. But the pro-vaxx crowd don't care. Everyone that is skeptical is an 'anti-vaxx' looney. The lack of empathy and understanding is very jarring.

Thanks. Yeah, I just think it's part of the toxic nature of the internet but what kind of person laughs at people dying or getting sick and thinks that they are somehow coming across as the better person?

ManaByte ManaByte "Play stupid Facebook anti-vaxxer conspiracy games, win stupid prizes"

The truth is that I care about people who have a completely different worldview to me. I am vaccinated and they never will be but if they should die then I can make peace with the fact that they at least died while being true to themselves.

People have to make their own choices but gloating over people making the wrong choices and suffering the consequences is pure scumbag behavior.

I can't imagine how incredibly shallow someone's life must be if seeing people they disagree with dying is a source of joy.
 
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Cyberpunkd

Member
It looks like the new wave of restrictions will be the ones announced already for the UK and ‘under consideration’ in Germany - at some point pass sanitaire will not be possible with a PCR test, it’s either vaccination or stay at home.

My heart goes to all the non-vaccinated:

Sad Tears GIF by Olivia Rodrigo
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
People have to make their own choices but gloating over people making the wrong choices and suffering the consequences is pure scumbag behavior
These people are making the wrong choices because they decide to believe complete bullshit made up by liars on the internet. There's no defense for that.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
Whatever makes you feel good.
Not interested in getting into it with someone who is not willing to listen.
No. At this point these people are basically saying "I won't wear a seatbelt because it's my choice!" and then they die in a minor car accident they would've survived if they just wore a seat belt.
 
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