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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Sure, but to what degree?
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Sure, but to what degree?
arkhamguy123
Member
That's a question for google and I'm not here to delve into this I frankly don't really care that much about it but your initial statement that they flat out do not was plain wrong.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Cool, dude. Thanks for stopping by with news from the real world.
arkhamguy123
Member
You alright?
MilkyJoe
Member
No they don't. Are you in the US? Where the government are telling lies about hospitalisations of the double jabbed?
Alx
Member
An epidemic is all about propagation through a crowd. Even if a vaccine can't 100% prevent an infection of an individual, if it makes it less likely to happen (vaccinated people are 10 times less likely to be infected, and when infected 10 times less likely to contaminate someone) it can/will make the difference between contagion increasing or dying down.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
What’s your definition of herd immunity? Because if it’s zero covid, that’ll never happen. We don’t have that against influenza or rhinovirus. We won’t against Covid.
If it’s enough protection to prevent pandemic status - yeah, we’ll all get that eventually. Uk’s delta rates are falling. If that continues, effective herd immunity is achieved.
I would wait another week and a half 2,5 weeks) to see if that’s the case to make such a statement, here in the Netherlands we saw it going very badly after 2 weeks opening almost entirely.. and we got measures back.
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thefool
Member
If you want and can wait, take the Novavax one. If not, it's whatever.
There is a very common misconception that the vaccines are vastly different (mRNA vs non-mRNA) and they really aren't. They all make the cell to copy the spike protein and our immunity systems responds to it. mRNA ones, mRNA is injected directly into the cell, in the others (dna vaccines) an adenovirus infects us and gets the dna into the cell. That dna is then transcribed to mRNA leading to the production of the spike protein. The reason the second ones are better than the first is because dna is very stable so it's easy to transport/store it vs the logistic nightmare of the other ones.
Jaysen
Banned
If that’s your reaction any time someone schools you, I bet your head constantly hurts.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Oh yeah, for definite. Too early to tell yet. But the fact cases have dropped for the past week even with us unlocking completely may indicate a long term positive trend. Fingers crossed.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
*Offer not valid in Australia
DeepBreath87
Banned
There is a natural selection aspect to this. I know human beings like to pretend we have control over that part of nature. But maybe for once we don’t.
Dr_Salt
Member
Doesn't really matter if everything is open again and you want to pretend things are going to be back to how they were. Truth is from now on every time you get sick with any type of flu, cold, etc you will at least consider it might be covid. If you have family or at least a bit of consideration for the health of others you will want to get tested. Your job will probably ask you to stay home and get tested. Chances are you will have to take boosters, maybe even yearly if you want to participate in society and don't let me start about the posibility of vaccine passports.
Covid is not going to magically disapear because of the vaccines specially these ones that are leaky and don't prevent you from getting it or passing it to others.
bigsnack
Member
This times a million basically. I’ve tried to post common sense, real world experience in other forums / spaces, and my words are minced and spat back in my face and weaponized against me by the social media professionals. This place at least has a spread of folks who at least hear others out, which is more than most places. Still, this is an Internet forum lol.
The lockdowns cater to people who have been looking for justification for their anxiety and introversion. Those folks are likely some of the loudest online.
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arkhamguy123
Member
Ummm... I don't know how your family did it or how you do things now but if I had a flu or the cold I would stay home until I was recovered. And your other premise is that despite a social end to the pandemic I'm supposed to be shitting my pants that if I get sick I would think to check if it were covid? Wow. Yeah earth shattering life altering stuff right there. Man life as I knew it is gone. Cmon man.
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Dr_Salt
Member
I mean idk where you work but according to your response you get the privilege of staying 3-5 days home from work everytime you get sick which can be several times a year. Is this how jobs work in America?
Obviously there are other global consequences of covid like supply chain issues which also impact you but in typical American fashion you can only think about what is happening in your country.
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Jaysen
Banned
Imagine downplaying a vaccine with 85+ percent efficacy. The main thing causing “leaks” are the idiots refusing to take it. But they’re now overwhelmingly the ones getting sick and dying from it, so that will mean fewer voters for the people pushing this as a governmental conspiracy, which is why many of those people are now suddenly begging their base to get immunized. So predictable.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
You're describing the way pretty much every serious respiratory virus is handled in society. We literally give millions upon millions of people flu vaccines every year. Employment law requires sick leave be given to employees.
You're not right about internal vaccine passports. They won't be a thing once enough of the world is vaccinated against covid. They spent years after Spanish Flu being careful. But that went away once the pandemic threat went away.
And we have vaccine requirements for passports for multiple diseases when you travel. Maybe you don't travel too much, but I've been jabbed for loads of things over the years.
The fact is, we get these pandemics in human society. They come, they go. They fade into the background.
The only difference with this one is social fucking media and it's amplification of stupidity, melodrama and false information. The vaccines work. In two or three years you won't even be thinking about covid.
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arkhamguy123
Member
This.
xellos2099alpha
Member
But won't covid go away if we have 100% vaccine rate?
Dr_Salt
Member
85%+ efficacy on what? Preventing serious symptoms and hospitalization? Sure at least that is what the data says. 85%+ efficacy on preventing you from getting the virus? Show me the study where you got this number because I haven't seen it.
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ManaByte
Gold Member
FunkMiller
Gold Member
No.
Where have people picked up the idea that vaccines eradicate disease 100%? That's incredibly rare - if ever.
xellos2099alpha
Member
And why not. Virus will die out if there are no more host to infect.
ManaByte
Gold Member
You'll never get 100% vaccination rate, even with mandated vaccines. Everyone who goes to school is mandated to be vaccinated against measles, but thanks to anti-vaxxer retards; CA just had a big measles outbreak when the dumbasses went to Disneyland and spread it around.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
On hospitalisation, the figure looks to actually be much higher:
- the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is 96% effective against hospitalisation after 2 doses
- the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine is 92% effective against hospitalisation after 2 doses
Once everyone is double vaccinated, nobody should give a shit about cases that aren't serious and needing hospital treatment. They don't fucking matter anymore.
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arkhamguy123
Member
No because they are not 100% effective. Zero covid is a unicorn. It's best to accept it as humanities new flu moving forward.
Jaysen
Banned
My bad, it’s 94 percent chance of preventing COVID related illness, and the odds of that only grows as more people get vaccinated. The only reason we continue to have a problem is because of hippie anti vaxxer dumbasses and complete dumbshits who are only anti vax when it comes to covid because they politicized it.
ManaByte
Gold Member
When you point out to those people that they had to have 5+ vaccines just to go to school:
Dr_Salt
Member
That was not the point of my post. My point is that this is a leaky vaccine. I don't think you can argue with that.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
What is a 'leaky' vaccine?
Dr_Salt
Member
A leaky vaccine is a vaccine that does not prevent you from getting the virus and does not prevent you from passing it.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Except this hasn't been proven anywhere in the real world even if it was a claim from one or more of the trials. At this moment, we see Pfizer with a 39% efficacy against infection figure that is rapidly dropping. The last "best case" scenario the UK government cited for AstraZeneca was 50% efficacy against infection and 50% efficacy against spread, for a total of 75% efficacy against getting it and spreading it to someone else. Of course they cautioned that they expect this figure to drop.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
So, every vaccine ever invented?
Vaccines are not a 'cure'. They are a method for increasing the anti body response in the human body to fight disease. This means you will either get no symptoms, or few symptoms, and you will have the disease for less time, decreasing the chances of you spreading it further.
They don't necessarily stop you from getting it if you're exposed. They do not cure the disease. That's why that doctor had to tell that fool in Alabama that it was too late for him to have the vaccine when he was dying of covid.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Yeah, but none of that really matters though. The key thing is the vaccine is incredibly effective at fighting serious illness, hospitalisation and death - so once everyone is fully vaccinated the pandemic ends.
...unless you're an anti-vaxxer, in which case tough shit. Or someone with a compromised immune system, in which case it's just another thing to add to the list of all the stuff that can kill you anyway unfortunately.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
The Delta variant already has a low enough CFR that it shouldn't be considered a deadly pandemic anymore in countries where it is dominant if you ask me.
I do wonder what the exit criteria are for countries like Israel and the UK. It seems like they still see Zero COVID as the only way out.
Dr_Salt
Member
I didn't made up these terms my man. The fact that there are two classifications called leaky vaccines and so called "perfect" vaccines like for example mumps just shows you can't place them under the same umbrella.
ManaByte
Gold Member
Anti-vaxxer contracts COVID-19, says he regrets skipping out on the vaccine
One man who refused to get the COVID-19 vaccine ended up in the hospital after contracting the virus. Before July, Gumerocindo Vergara had no fears of the virus but that has all changed now.
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arkhamguy123
Member
I'm not up on Israel but that seems like the opposite of the UK? They're on the "fuck it people just catch covid now open up everything" train?
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
While also prepping their vaccine passport system for September.
arkhamguy123
Member
That seems more like a smart system to me than a zero covid NZ, Australia level of hysteria.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Anti-vaxxer contracts COVID-19, says he regrets skipping out on the vaccine
One man who refused to get the COVID-19 vaccine ended up in the hospital after contracting the virus. Before July, Gumerocindo Vergara had no fears of the virus but that has all changed now.www.foxla.com
Let's just post every article about people who express regret for their actions to really drum up some fear!
Here's another one you might have missed. I mean if this shining beacon of health can get complications from COVID then no one is safe. Three jabs for me, please.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Meanwhile...
Fear not, we already secured 200,000,000 more doses! We just need to vaccinate harder and all will be well.
Payday for Pfizer and friends.
vpance
Member
This seems new. Jane Doe's declaration on the estimation of at least 45K deaths from the vaccines.
ManaByte
Gold Member
That's the same group of nutcases who gave a press conference last year saying COVID was a hoax. That will be thrown out by the judge.
'America's Frontline Doctors' Continue to Misinform on COVID
Notorious physician group has now pivoted to inciting fear about vaccines
www.medpagetoday.com
No evidence of 45,000 deaths from COVID-19 vaccines
America’s Frontline Doctors, a group known for its false and misleading claims about the pandemic, first made headlines
www.politifact.com
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
In regards to the 95% efficacy against infection figure initially thrown out for the Pfizer vaccine, is this really the source?
www.fda.gov
So basically they took the number of people who "had evidence of infection through 7 days after the second dose" in each group and divided it by their respective total group sizes to get a percentage, then took the vaccine group's percentage and divided it by their placebo group's percentage to get 5%, or 95% efficacy?
Or basically this? Please correct me if I'm getting something (everything?) wrong about how they landed on this figure.
Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine Frequently Asked Questions
Frequently asked questions on the emergency use authorization of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine
So basically they took the number of people who "had evidence of infection through 7 days after the second dose" in each group and divided it by their respective total group sizes to get a percentage, then took the vaccine group's percentage and divided it by their placebo group's percentage to get 5%, or 95% efficacy?
Or basically this? Please correct me if I'm getting something (everything?) wrong about how they landed on this figure.
| Total | Trial | Placebo | Trial vs. Placebo | |
Participants | 36523 | 18198 | 18325 | 99.31% | |
Got Covid | 170 | 8 | 162 | 4.94% | |
Got Severe Covid | 4 | 1 | 3 | 33.33% | |
% of Total that got COVID | 0.4655% | 0.0440% | 0.8840% | 4.97% | |
% of Total that got Severe COVID | 0.0110% | 0.0055% |
| 33.57% |