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[UncleMeat]

"We didn't break any rules because we were exempted from the rules."

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

"apparently sarcastically"? Isn't Satanic Temple an atheist punchline recognized as a religion in the US? It'd be funny if this powerpoint was further legitimized for fighting vaccine hesitancy among satanists in the military.

 

[Vicetrailia]

why?

Because as grown adults they’ll likely thank you, especially if they are moderately sexually active. There’s an age limit on when insurance covers the vax because they expect that you’ll be dealing with hpv in some type of way. Its best to get it before HS. I wish my parents would have done it (it wasn’t an option back then).

————

Infections with HPV types that cause most HPV cancers and genital warts have dropped 88% among teen girls and 81% among young adult women.

Among vaccinated women, the percentage of cervical precancers caused by the HPV types most often linked to cervical cancer have dropped by 40 percent.

 

[Nobody_Important]

"We didn't break any rules because we were exempted from the rules."

That is an accurate breakdown of that statement yes.

 

[UncleMeat]

That is an accurate breakdown of that statement yes.

I guess the point is are we stupid enough to tolerate this?

Don't you think gyms, schools and restaurants are taking "additional safety modifications"? Where is their exemption?

 

[sackings]

just a continuation of rules for thee (unwashed peasant masses) and not for me (rich elites)

 

[Nobody_Important]

I guess the point is are we stupid enough to tolerate this?

Don't you think gyms, schools and restaurants are taking "additional safety modifications"? Where is their exemption?

I can't tell if you are being serious or not. We already have ample evidence from across the country in regards to how well schools are being handled at the moment. And you think places should just be given blanket exemptions for the foreseeable future? That is completely ridiculous.


The Emmy's was a once a year event. You are talking about blanket exemptions for places that are used every single day and have already been shown to be breeding grounds for covid outbreaks.

just a continuation of rules for thee (unwashed peasant masses) and not for me (rich elites)

You guys are too much lol

 

[Krappadizzle]

I can't tell if you are being serious or not. We already have ample evidence from across the country in regards to how well schools are being handled at the moment. And you think places should just be given blanket exemptions for the foreseeable future? That is completely ridiculous.


The Emmy's was a once a year event. You are talking about blanket exemptions for places that are used every single day and have already been shown to be breeding grounds for covid outbreaks.


You guys are too much lol

How many examples of "rules for thee but not for me" do you need to see to believe it then? There are so many examples it's ridiculous at this point.

 

[Nobody_Important]

How many examples of "rules for thee but not for me" do you need to see to believe it then? There are so many examples it's ridiculous at this point.

Im not saying that argument cannot be made, but using the Emmy's as an example for why schools should receive exemptions as well is just plain ridiculous. Apples and oranges doesn't even begin to describe that.

 

[poppabk]

I guess the point is are we stupid enough to tolerate this?

Don't you think gyms, schools and restaurants are taking "additional safety modifications"? Where is their exemption?

If a gym requires everyone visiting to be proven fully vaccinated and have them have a confirmed negative test 48 hours before working out, and all the staff are fully vaccinated or testing negative twice per week, then I think yeah they should get an exemption from the mask rule.
I thought this kind of checking papers, mandated vaccination, was what everyone was up in arms about though, now you are ok with it, it's the masks that are the problem?

 

[UncleMeat]

I can't tell if you are being serious or not. We already have ample evidence from across the country in regards to how well schools are being handled at the moment. And you think places should just be given blanket exemptions for the foreseeable future? That is completely ridiculous.


The Emmy's was a once a year event. You are talking about blanket exemptions for places that are used every single day and have already been shown to be breeding grounds for covid outbreaks.


You guys are too much lol

If it's just a once a year event then why were all vaccinated workers and media still required to wear masks? It amazes me anyone can defend that or pretend it's based on science.

And students are being held to a different standard. Kids on college campuses that require vaccination are still being forced to wear masks outside, not allowing them to eat in the cafeteria or leave campus and telling them to stick to small social circles. Good article about it today in Reason:

College Campuses Have the Craziest COVID-19 Restrictions of All

Here's why that should terrify the rest of us, too.

reason.com

Campus environments, where the populace skews younger and the vaccination rate is 90-plus percent, are ideal places to ease into the post-pandemic reality: They are extremely safe from the threats of mass death and crowded hospitals. University authorities would be well-advised to treat the diminishing threat of COVID-19 as an opportunity to lift restrictions, ease up on masking, and let students enjoy the social and educational experiences they're paying for.

Instead, something close to the opposite is happening: Far from returning to normal at an accelerated rate, many colleges are implementing some of the most authoritarian mitigation efforts out of anywhere in the country.

Then they go on to list all the crazy shit they're forcing on students that you and a lot of others here probably support.

If a gym requires everyone visiting to be proven fully vaccinated and have them have a confirmed negative test 48 hours before working out, and all the staff are fully vaccinated or testing negative twice per week, then I think yeah they should get an exemption from the mask rule.
I thought this kind of checking papers, mandated vaccination, was what everyone was up in arms about though, now you are ok with it, it's the masks that are the problem?

Just to be clear I'm not for "blanket exemptions". I'm against blanket mandates in the first place. My original complaint was about how it's bullshit that politically connected people get special exemptions and not normal people like gym owners. So I'm saying it's double bullshit: the mandates are bullshit, and the exemptions for celebrities/politicians are bullshit.

 

[Nobody_Important]

If it's just a once a year event then why were all vaccinated workers and media still required to wear masks? It amazes me anyone can defend that or pretend it's based on science.

And students are being held to a different standard. Kids on college campuses that require vaccination are still being forced to wear masks outside, not allowing them to eat in the cafeteria or leave campus and telling them to stick to small social circles. Good article about it today in Reason:

College Campuses Have the Craziest COVID-19 Restrictions of All

Here's why that should terrify the rest of us, too.

reason.com

Then they go on to list all the crazy shit they're forcing on students that you and a lot of others here support.



Just to be clear I'm not for "blanket exemptions". I'm against blanket mandates in the first place. My original complaint was about how it's bullshit that politically connected people get special exemptions and not normal people like gym owners. So I'm saying it's double bullshit: the mandates are bullshit, and the exemptions for celebrities/politicians are bullshit.

It was just explained to you why the Emmys got their exemption and the hoops that they had to jump through. If all of the schools and universities across the country along with any gym owners want to do the exact same thing then I am all for them being exempted. Those mandates are the only reason why our hospitals haven't been completely overrun and even then in some places they are still being overrun. Imagine how bad it would be if there was no mandates.


Use your brain.

 

[Rentahamster]

If we could implement rapid daily testing in schools, I'd be fine with more lenient masking rules.

If we could implement confirmed negative test results plus vaccination as a rule to enter an establishment, I'd also be fine with forgoing masking at said establishment.

 

[Sacred]

BREAKING: Senior ABC News Reporter Reveals Top Bosses Spikes News Important to Voters: ‘Our Bosses Don’t See an Upside’; Network Refuses to Acknowledge Trump’s successes: ‘We Also Don’t Give Him Credit for What Things He Does Do’ | Project Veritas

A senior political reporter for ABC News covering the presidential campaign told a Project Veritas undercover journalist his network is unable both to provide relevant news to Americans and function as a commercial enterprise, and the commercial imperative wins in the end.

www.projectveritas.com

 

[UncleMeat]

It was just explained to you why the Emmys got their exemption and the hoops that they had to jump through. If all of the schools and universities across the country along with any gym owners want to do the exact same thing then I am all for them being exempted. Those mandates are the only reason why our hospitals haven't been completely overrun and even then in some places they are still being overrun. Imagine how bad it would be if there was no mandates.


Use your brain.

I don't have to imagine it because I live in a red state where there are no restrictions. We get to do whatever we want, it's great. I just feel bad for the people in blue states/other countries that want to get back to normal.

 

[funkygunther]

BREAKING: Senior ABC News Reporter Reveals Top Bosses Spikes News Important to Voters: ‘Our Bosses Don’t See an Upside’; Network Refuses to Acknowledge Trump’s successes: ‘We Also Don’t Give Him Credit for What Things He Does Do’ | Project Veritas

A senior political reporter for ABC News covering the presidential campaign told a Project Veritas undercover journalist his network is unable both to provide relevant news to Americans and function as a commercial enterprise, and the commercial imperative wins in the end.

www.projectveritas.com

what does this have to do with Covid?

 

[Nobody_Important]

I don't have to imagine it because I live in a red state where there are no restrictions. We get to do whatever we want, it's great. I just feel bad for the people in blue states/other countries that want to get back to normal.

Which state?

 

[poppabk]

I don't have to imagine it because I live in a red state where there are no restrictions. We get to do whatever we want, it's great. I just feel bad for the people in blue states/other countries that want to get back to normal.

I live in a blue state and things are pretty much back to normal but with some social distancing and masking on a voluntary level.
The brass fitting on my grill is considered a reportable carcinogen risk in California - they were never 'normal'.

 

[Nobody_Important]

I'm in Texas and things are just shit. Abbott has no fucking clue what he is doing.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

Canada federal response will continue the same. Deemed satisfactory in performance review if an election can be considered one.
So no big changes to federal vaccination mandates or potential federal challenges to provincial mandates. Now that voting is settled there's still some legal avenues for particular challengers within the system at various leverls and always a chance to make a case regarding vaccinations in a future election if there's even still a thing about it by then.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

 

[UncleMeat]

Which state?

I live in Texas' hat, aka - Oklahoma. A state run by pragmatic geniuses where nothing bad ever happens....

You guys can just take my word on that and not bother googling.

 

[Rentahamster]

Getting carded (ID) to gain access to a 21 and over bar or night club.

Getting carded (vaccination status + ID) to gain access to the same night club.

Both actions amount to getting your "papers checked". Is one reasonable and another unreasonable? How are they different and how are they alike?

 

[Thaedolus]

Getting carded (ID) to gain access to a 21 and over bar or night club.

Getting carded (vaccination status + ID) to gain access to the same night club.

Both actions amount to getting your "papers checked". Is one reasonable and another unreasonable? How are they different and how are they alike?

“Well you see, my bitching and moaning is dependent on conflating our current situation with nazi Germany so they’re the same thing”

edit:

Ah how serendipitous this just showed up on my feed:

 

[LMJ]

Firstly I must apologize for the lateness of my reply, was out of state for a while and was simply too busy to access my laptop lol

I can't get behind this kind of compassion for them. It's 2021. They're just vaccines - nothing special, nothing dangerous, nothing dramatic or sensational. They're overwhelming our healthcare apparatuses and causing suffering and death over something as benign as a vaccine. They are holding us back from returning to a normal world. And all the while they are forcefully hateful against anyone who hasn't fallen into the same illogical conspiracy theory-fueled nightmare of anti-science. We're all sheep, they're lions. We're all stupid, but they know The Truth. Etc. It's so fucking pathetic and yet at the same time sad to watch.

What on earth does it being 2021 have to due with a lack of consideration for your fellow man?

Agreed they are vaccines, just as the vaccines before that were demonized (as in ALL of them, not just the Covid ones) again the majority of these "anti-vaxxers" are not anti-vax in general, they are Anti-vax against a seemingly untested, Government pushed Vaccine that was given blanket immunity if something DID go wrong...IT IS A TRUST ISSUE!

You are holding the world back just as much by labeling "them" (you are clearly grouping all those whom are anti-vax regardless of reason together) rather then working with them, you can't act sympathetic or hang your head in sorrow at the "tragedy" of all the new deaths when you mock them or even laugh at their demise in this very thread with your nose in the air.

Yeah the sheep, Lions thing is more about blindly following Governing bodies that have continuously shown they
A Don't follow their own rules
B. Are clearly pushing for more power with every new "policy"

It's also not the rest of our problem that they're making a virus and disease political, creating a division that didn't exist prior, or that they're allowing themselves to fall into the trap of unconvincing grifters over medical technology that is over a century old. This is all on them, full stop, 100 percent. It is not the duty of the rational to drag them along. They actively shut out valid scientific information and the reality right in front of their eyes over some kind of fucked up tribalism that is literally getting themselves, their elderly, and now more than ever their children killed.

They are making it Political? EVERYONE is making it political, you do NOT get to act superior here, when you and others wish to enforce Political mandates, when you wish these people to lose privileges despite the very fact you claim the vaccinated are safe (they are safer, but not safe)

There is a clear problem here, we will never reach blanket immunity...that's simply not possible. You can bribe them, threaten them, scare them and there will ALWAYS be those that hold out from getting vaxxed, but as the old adage says "you can catch more flies with honey then with vinegar", being snide and condescending does nothing to change minds. Why do you think so many hardcore anti-vax advocates changed their minds on the Hospital bed? Because they saw the error of their ways, you can change minds, it isn't easy but it is doable but attacking each other won't solve anything, the Anti-vax crew ARE holding us back, but you won't work with them, instead you blame them for all the woes when the righteous "vaxxers" are just as guilty as being obnoxious and judgmental...again it is simply creating a class war.

So no. No. Stop trying to offload the blame onto the rational. This is now a pandemic of the unvaccinated, spilled over into affecting the sensible and it is all 100% their fault.

Right there is the crux of this problem, you refuse to see their rationality (again not the crazies or intention misinformation spreaders) but the average Joe and Jane who are anti-vax for a wide plethora of reasons, because "you're on the right side of history"...you and those like you are "rational"

You are just as guilty and have made the divide even more severe...

the problem with "Inspire, educate and most importantly he was empathy and reasoning" is the Goldilocks syndrome, that no matter how inspiring, educational or "nice" you want to be it'll never be good enough...that's what happens in this thread, when biases are not confirmed people run away...at least this is my experience in this thread for those that come in with anti-vax analogies, anecdotes or arguments

your post needs actual examples, and actual solutions, because each interaction is ad hoc with its own context and peculiarities so while I'm sure it was cathartic to type all this it's not very helpful for anyone

on the measles vaccine, you can look up Andrew Wakefield who is very much the example of that anti-vaccine movement rather than those celebrities

Why would imploring people show empathy for their fellow human require examples? Simply asking my fellow Gaf brethren to see that if you want this Country to heal (let alone the world) that labeling doesn't solve shit.

The Science is on YOUR side (mine too FYI), we KNOW the vaccines work, and though they don't grant blanket immunity, they do give a very high level of protection...That's not the issue here, it's the demonization of anyone who even "questions" the vaccine/mask/other BS being spewed by governing bodies...

look at areas of Austrailia, look at the overreach and insane measurements they have taken. When people brought up the "removal and lockdown" of those who had the virus, they were shot down with "yeah but it's like a hotel room" ignoring the whole lockdown aspect in the first place.

Again ignore those that have gone off the deep end and are foaming at the mouth, you can't reason with a blind idealist, but do you truly think well over two thirds of the Country are crazies? no they are MISINFORMED! Not saying they're guiltless in this, but attacking them only makes it easier to mislead them in the long run.

The following (see examples lol) is a channel on Youtube commonly shared on Facebook pages



Only issue...shit almost never works, and they can even be dangerous



The point being selling mis-information is VERY easy to do, when it offers a simple easy explanation, and that's just a chunk of those who are anti-vax, they are feeding their mis-trust from people who are deliberately lying to them.

We’ve reached the point where anyone reachable on this has been reached.

Again, giving up on over two thirds of the nation huh? How laughable

The only people left are either firm anti-vaxxers, or the poor bastards who are locked up in their homes because they’re immunosuppressed and can’t take the vaccine.

Yeah...no, numbers aren't remotely on your side here lol

How about some sympathy for them instead of the anti-vaxxers who are keeping them locked up?

Yeah I' DO have sympathy for them genius, I am PRO-FREAKING VAX!!!
I still have questions and concerns about THIS vax, but I have ALWAYS been pro vax in general.

How about telling anti-vaxxers to work with their fellow man and have empathy for all of those who cannot take the vaccine?

I have been Funky, I have been, (my family FYI) I had a great chat and I might have reached a few (hint not attacking them or threatening their freedoms helps )

Why are you - and so many like you - more concerned with some nebulous idea of your American ‘freedoms’ while totally ignoring the actual and real plight of your fellow citizens?

When has a Governing body stopped their overreach after a crisis was over, Why don't you ask many of those in Australia how they feel about their freedoms huh?

How about you tell you anti-vax friends to grow up, have some empathy, and get the jab?

A conversation goes a lot further then condescending smugness Funky

Nah, it’s not a trust issue, same as ‘I’m not racist, I have black friends’ doesn’t work. People know the stigma of being anti-vaccine so they intentionally hide behind ‘just asking questions’. Same as people that were not willing to admit they voted for Trump.

Love the stupid Trump diss FYI

Not a trust issue?

People like you treat any concern or hesitancy as "anti vax" completely ignoring what led up to here.

Let's focus this time on the Republicans who are distrustful of you and others...

What led up to this distrust?

An extended quarantine for many

Loss of freedoms we took for granted

Many lost their way of living thanks to government restrictions and closures

They have been demeaned and mocked by the media (and the "tolerant" on the left)

they just witnessed their President slur them and pass an unconstitutional (in their eyes) mandate

Now tell me Cyberpunkd , just what kind of trust are you expecting here?

and that's just one of those types of "anti-vaxers" there are also, holistic, religious, paranoid, and those trashed for simply asking questions...to name a few

The real problem is that you, and many others group them all together with the "horse paste" wackos...but yeah "trust" isn't an issue

Regarding US government - how does that work? You don’t pay taxes? You don’t send your kids to school? You make no use of government services? After all everything the government does is suspicious by definition.

You think that is an excuse for what many see (myself included) as mass Government overreach (not US only FYI)?

There are places all over the country completely open with numbers triple or more what they were during lockdowns last year. I went to Disneyland in *California* this July and nobody had a mask on or was required to distance, etc. The idea we’re in for permanent lockdowns and muh freedoms is gone forever is just nonsense.

True, the neat thing about the United States is that we are more like fifty countries combined with a big daddy government to enforce the universal rules, you just described a red state, you'll find that kind of "freedom" in many states FYI, try Cali or NY for a different view

Some states respond to the numbers and are implementing better controls, others are just ignoring them to their own peril. But this would make that all almost a moot point: if everyone who could get vaccinated got the goddamn vaccine already

See above

Im more than willing to educate and help people after they've swallowed their pride and got vaccinated for the good of their fellow Americans.

"I am more than willing to have a conversation with them after they shut up and do what I say first"
How kind of you lol

The typical camp of anti-vax are these buckets (one or a combo of them):

- Lazy. I'll get around to it. The vax is free, available everywhere including walk up appointments at a drug store, yet somehow cant find time to do it Very few I would
imagine
- It doesn't work Misinformation
- It has side effects It can (albeit vey few cases) again Misinformation
- Covid wont affect me True, many have felt this way, my uncle included
- I dont want my freedoms taken away. A valid concern It's my life. Part of the whole "freedom" thing So I'm willing to risk getting it, nothing serious, and I live as normal with no mask or vaccine Yup personal freedom is a bitch huh
- If it does seriously affect me or I die. Oh well. I'm not here anyway. ??? Not here long I assume So it's now up to you to gimme a hand helping my spouse and kids How do you figure that, a gofundme is charity not enforced?
- I'm a short term thinker. LABELS So no mask or vaccine. LABELS Don't care about long term liberties which may open up if everyone gets vaxxed and covid cases drop like a rock, so gov can open things up in full or get rid of policies. LABELS LABELS LABELS I'm a live for today guy and cant comprehend the correlation when cities opening things up when covid cases drop. Personal freedom is a bitch huh

It's so easy to just label those you disagree with right, so here's the thing, why should I or anyone else in this thread swallow your so called sympathy when you or others post another sad death tweet, article etc when you look at these things in such a sad judgmental light

If a gym requires everyone visiting to be proven fully vaccinated and have them have a confirmed negative test 48 hours before working out, and all the staff are fully vaccinated or testing negative twice per week, then I think yeah they should get an exemption from the mask rule.
I thought this kind of checking papers, mandated vaccination, was what everyone was up in arms about though, now you are ok with it, it's the masks that are the problem?

Big difference between a private establishment and a Government mandate...

A business can technically also have a sign that says "no children" most don't as it would cost them customers lol hell the Wholefoods my wife went into the other day had a Mask bouncer

Again Gaf, I agree it's frustrating, but the right thing is often not easy...you won't win hearts and minds through hate and mockery or condescension, many WILL listen if you just try to talk to them...You show tweets like the many lives that were lost memorial, but mock a huge number of those who have lost them...

 

[FunkMiller]

When has a Governing body stopped their overreach after a crisis was over, Why don't you ask many of those in Australia how they feel about their freedoms huh?

Okay. How about I ask my friends and family out there?

…Oh, actually I already have.

They all know that what’s going on in Australia right now is exactly what happened in the U.K last year. And they also know that the UK is completely free of restrictions or lockdowns now due to our vaccine program.

There’s been no overreach in the U.K. There won’t be in Australia either.

Fuck me... Do you even bother looking at what’s actually going on in the real world, instead of just what you read on social media?

 

[th4tguy]

I don't have to imagine it because I live in a red state where there are no restrictions. We get to do whatever we want, it's great. I just feel bad for the people in blue states/other countries that want to get back to normal.

And those red states are suffering the most right now with infection rates and death. Sure sounds great!
(I’m also in a mostly red state)

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Firstly I must apologize for the lateness of my reply, was out of state for a while and was simply too busy to access my laptop lol


What on earth does it being 2021 have to due with a lack of consideration for your fellow man?

Agreed they are vaccines, just as the vaccines before that were demonized (as in ALL of them, not just the Covid ones) again the majority of these "anti-vaxxers" are not anti-vax in general, they are Anti-vax against a seemingly untested, Government pushed Vaccine that was given blanket immunity if something DID go wrong...IT IS A TRUST ISSUE!

You are holding the world back just as much by labeling "them" (you are clearly grouping all those whom are anti-vax regardless of reason together) rather then working with them, you can't act sympathetic or hang your head in sorrow at the "tragedy" of all the new deaths when you mock them or even laugh at their demise in this very thread with your nose in the air.

Yeah the sheep, Lions thing is more about blindly following Governing bodies that have continuously shown they
A Don't follow their own rules
B. Are clearly pushing for more power with every new "policy"


They are making it Political? EVERYONE is making it political, you do NOT get to act superior here, when you and others wish to enforce Political mandates, when you wish these people to lose privileges despite the very fact you claim the vaccinated are safe (they are safer, but not safe)

There is a clear problem here, we will never reach blanket immunity...that's simply not possible. You can bribe them, threaten them, scare them and there will ALWAYS be those that hold out from getting vaxxed, but as the old adage says "you can catch more flies with honey then with vinegar", being snide and condescending does nothing to change minds. Why do you think so many hardcore anti-vax advocates changed their minds on the Hospital bed? Because they saw the error of their ways, you can change minds, it isn't easy but it is doable but attacking each other won't solve anything, the Anti-vax crew ARE holding us back, but you won't work with them, instead you blame them for all the woes when the righteous "vaxxers" are just as guilty as being obnoxious and judgmental...again it is simply creating a class war.


Right there is the crux of this problem, you refuse to see their rationality (again not the crazies or intention misinformation spreaders) but the average Joe and Jane who are anti-vax for a wide plethora of reasons, because "you're on the right side of history"...you and those like you are "rational"

You are just as guilty and have made the divide even more severe...


Why would imploring people show empathy for their fellow human require examples? Simply asking my fellow Gaf brethren to see that if you want this Country to heal (let alone the world) that labeling doesn't solve shit.

The Science is on YOUR side (mine too FYI), we KNOW the vaccines work, and though they don't grant blanket immunity, they do give a very high level of protection...That's not the issue here, it's the demonization of anyone who even "questions" the vaccine/mask/other BS being spewed by governing bodies...

look at areas of Austrailia, look at the overreach and insane measurements they have taken. When people brought up the "removal and lockdown" of those who had the virus, they were shot down with "yeah but it's like a hotel room" ignoring the whole lockdown aspect in the first place.

Again ignore those that have gone off the deep end and are foaming at the mouth, you can't reason with a blind idealist, but do you truly think well over two thirds of the Country are crazies? no they are MISINFORMED! Not saying they're guiltless in this, but attacking them only makes it easier to mislead them in the long run.

The following (see examples lol) is a channel on Youtube commonly shared on Facebook pages



Only issue...shit almost never works, and they can even be dangerous



The point being selling mis-information is VERY easy to do, when it offers a simple easy explanation, and that's just a chunk of those who are anti-vax, they are feeding their mis-trust from people who are deliberately lying to them.



Again, giving up on over two thirds of the nation huh? How laughable

Yeah...no, numbers aren't remotely on your side here lol

Yeah I' DO have sympathy for them genius, I am PRO-FREAKING VAX!!!
I still have questions and concerns about THIS vax, but I have ALWAYS been pro vax in general.

I have been Funky, I have been, (my family FYI) I had a great chat and I might have reached a few (hint not attacking them or threatening their freedoms helps )

When has a Governing body stopped their overreach after a crisis was over, Why don't you ask many of those in Australia how they feel about their freedoms huh?

A conversation goes a lot further then condescending smugness Funky

Love the stupid Trump diss FYI

Not a trust issue?

People like you treat any concern or hesitancy as "anti vax" completely ignoring what led up to here.

Let's focus this time on the Republicans who are distrustful of you and others...

What led up to this distrust?

An extended quarantine for many

Loss of freedoms we took for granted

Many lost their way of living thanks to government restrictions and closures

They have been demeaned and mocked by the media (and the "tolerant" on the left)

they just witnessed their President slur them and pass an unconstitutional (in their eyes) mandate

Now tell me Cyberpunkd , just what kind of trust are you expecting here?

and that's just one of those types of "anti-vaxers" there are also, holistic, religious, paranoid, and those trashed for simply asking questions...to name a few

The real problem is that you, and many others group them all together with the "horse paste" wackos...but yeah "trust" isn't an issue

You think that is an excuse for what many see (myself included) as mass Government overreach (not US only FYI)?


True, the neat thing about the United States is that we are more like fifty countries combined with a big daddy government to enforce the universal rules, you just described a red state, you'll find that kind of "freedom" in many states FYI, try Cali or NY for a different view

See above

"I am more than willing to have a conversation with them after they shut up and do what I say first"
How kind of you lol

It's so easy to just label those you disagree with right, so here's the thing, why should I or anyone else in this thread swallow your so called sympathy when you or others post another sad death tweet, article etc when you look at these things in such a sad judgmental light

Big difference between a private establishment and a Government mandate...

A business can technically also have a sign that says "no children" most don't as it would cost them customers lol hell the Wholefoods my wife went into the other day had a Mask bouncer

Again Gaf, I agree it's frustrating, but the right thing is often not easy...you won't win hearts and minds through hate and mockery or condescension, many WILL listen if you just try to talk to them...You show tweets like the many lives that were lost memorial, but mock a huge number of those who have lost them...

Nothing wrong with labels. Act stubborn, get labeled stubborn.

When no vaccines were around yet (2020), lots of people died. Mostly old people. 2021 rolls around and vaccine shots are everywhere. You can even do a walk up at a drug store to get it. You dont need to fill an application to get an appointment like in March or April when it was rolling out to the masses. Its free and take minutes. The only way it is easier is if the government knocked on your door and did it in your living room.

Which people seem to take up all the hospital beds due to covid issues? Unvaxxed people. I dont see any articles saying hospitals are jammed due to vaxxed people still getting sick, the vaccine doesnt work and they are hogging all the beds.

So man up and get a shot. It doesn't even hurt if that's what you're afraid of.

People saying they dont want to get the shot because it was made and released fast compared to other drugs. Good point. It was fast. Hey, what we have to go on is:

- Covid is making people sick and dying fast
- Drug companies made it
- Government approved it and is administering it asap
- Anti-vax people claiming the drugs are too risky and dont do it. Or they suck and have side effects etc....

You're going to believe the people who have zero medical expertise, and going against government health department approvals?

I get it. Scare tactics and people acting like big shots being macho man they dont need a shot. Guess what? You probably will live. Bu dont come crying when you or someone you know is unvaxxed due to stubborness and kicks the bucket.

It's not like getting a shot locks you up in prison restricting your freedom. I got the shots and went along my merry way rest of the day. Ate, slept, log into work from home, take a dump every once in a while. What freedoms are being taken away?

 

[DeafTourette]

The case Jacobson V Massachusetts was brought to my attention concerning vaccine mandates and their constitutionality. Seems that it IS constitutional.

 

[FunkMiller]

It's not like getting a shot locks you up in prison restricting your freedom. I got the shots and went along my merry way rest of the day. Ate, slept, log into work from home, take a dump every once in a while. What freedoms are being taken away?

Literally the only freedom they’re having taken away is the ability to not do what they’re being asked to.

It’s like children being mad they’ve been told to come in from play time because it’s dark, and the perverts have come out.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

The case Jacobson V Massachusetts was brought to my attention concerning vaccine mandates and their constitutionality. Seems that it IS constitutional.

And thats the right decision. I skimmed the wiki and this is the key thing that stood out (and nicely convenient right there in plain view).


Harlan's decision supported both police power and limits on the power, and his decision would be invoked to support both in later cases. He stated his nuanced opinion on the limits of government power by saying that "general terms should be so limited in their application as not to lead to injustice, oppression or absurd consequence".[6]


In other words, the government has a crisis and has the power to do it's best to improve the situation taking the bull by the horns. But that doesn't mean the government can go bonkers forcing everyone to might as well take another 10 different vaccines for the heck if it because the person is already there. There's obviously going to be a judgement call on whether the government action is reasonable or being a tyrant.

And with covid, there is no way they are being tyrants. It's free, easy to get and for the most part everyone is still living their lives as normal. The biggest thing gov did was do lockdowns on front line restaurant kinds of businesses and travel in hopes high density activities and jobs dont spread it too much. And for some places, they barely did anything anyway.

 

[Rentahamster]

When has a Governing body stopped their overreach after a crisis was over

The Civil War comes to mind.

they just witnessed their President slur them

Did he really? What's the quote?

 

[Sacred]

what does this have to do with Covid?

The top story..

 

[Mistake]

And those red states are suffering the most right now with infection rates and death. Sure sounds great!
(I’m also in a mostly red state)

Yeah, but how many are out of state people? My state is mostly red, but for the last 6 months I’ve seen tons and tons of out of state plates. More people than I ever saw in my life. The mass exodus from blue states is real

 

[Vicetrailia]

Yeah, but how many are out of state people? My state is mostly red, but for the last 6 months I’ve seen tons and tons of out of state plates. More people than I ever saw in my life. The mass exodus from blue states is real

That’s all capitalism and not red vs blue.

 

[Rentahamster]

The case Jacobson V Massachusetts was brought to my attention concerning vaccine mandates and their constitutionality. Seems that it IS constitutional.

Zucht v. King too

Zucht v. King - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[LMJ]

Okay. How about I ask my friends and family out there?

…Oh, actually I already have.

Bully?

They all know that what’s going on in Australia right now is exactly what happened in the U.K last year. And they also know that the UK is completely free of restrictions or lockdowns now due to our vaccine program.

Hmmm

Hundreds of anti-lockdown protesters clash with police in Australia | CNN

At least 235 people were arrested and 10 police officers injured following a large anti-lockdown protest on Saturday in Melbourne, Australia.

www.cnn.com

Gallery: Chaos as anti-lockdown protesters flood Melbourne streets

More than 3000 anti-lockdown protesters flooded the streets of Melbourne's CBD on Saturday, clashing with police and clogging up intersections.

www.theage.com.au

going swimmingly

There’s been no overreach in the U.K. There won’t be in Australia either.

Great Britain's high streets lost more than 17,500 chain store outlets in 2020

Covid spurred average daily closure of 48 shops, restaurants and other leisure and hospitality venues

www.theguardian.com

The ridiculously long lockdowns in many areas of the UK took their tole, many who lost their livelihood would disagree

Look it's great that the UK is starting to recover, but that doesn't get rid of "anti-vaxer" concerns in the states (or there for that matter) If you quit seeing every person who isn't convinced yet as an "anti vaxer" (I've been using parenthesis for a reason)

Fuck me... Do you even bother looking at what’s actually going on in the real world, instead of just what you read on social media?

I don't use social media you condescending goof, I read news, as in different sources of news...CNN, Fox, Bloomberg, BBC etc
The only "social media" I peruse is this site (mostly gaming)

Nothing wrong with labels. Act stubborn, get labeled stubborn.

Award for dumbest post thus far

I repeat easy to discount everything when you group everyone as an "anti-vaxer"

When no vaccines were around yet (2020), lots of people died. Mostly old people. 2021 rolls around and vaccine shots are everywhere. You can even do a walk up at a drug store to get it. You dont need to fill an application to get an appointment like in March or April when it was rolling out to the masses. Its free and take minutes. The only way it is easier is if the government knocked on your door and did it in your living room.

Yeah it sucked to put it quite mildly, and no shit Sherlock...again I AM PRO VAX!

I am anti treating those who hold different opinions as lesser than human! These are your fellow humans, they have a reason for their fear, prejudice, hate, mistrust etc

You will never change their minds if you can't at the minimum hear them out and see WHY they don't want the vaccine.

Which people seem to take up all the hospital beds due to covid issues? Unvaxxed people. I dont see any articles saying hospitals are jammed due to vaxxed people still getting sick, the vaccine doesnt work and they are hogging all the beds.

Assuming that's a typo lol
Again people I am not saying the hospitals etc aren't an issue, but just like nearly every problem out there the solution isn't black and white, it's more complicated then that.

So man up and get a shot. It doesn't even hurt if that's what you're afraid of.

Did Skippy, but I don't have a religious belief holding me back, I haven't been misinformed by social media, or distrust the government or "big pharma" I certainly have dealt with the same judgmental pricks though...despite my pro-vax stance.

People saying they dont want to get the shot because it was made and released fast compared to other drugs. Good point. It was fast. Hey, what we have to go on is:

- Covid is making people sick and dying fast - YUP, no disagreement
- Drug companies made it - Which many people already don't trust...part of the problem
- Government approved it and is administering it asap - The second part and far less trusted than "big pharma" FYI
- Anti-vax people claiming the drugs are too risky and don't do it. Misinformation is a problem true Or they suck and have side effects etc.... (They can, but in VERY limited amounts)

You're going to believe the people who have zero medical expertise, and going against government health department approvals?

I AM PRO VACCINATION!!!

I get it. Scare tactics and people acting like big shots being macho man they dont need a shot. Guess what? You probably will live. Bu dont come crying when you or someone you know is unvaxxed due to stubborness and kicks the bucket.

Fuck that, what a stupid calous thing to say!
I WILL cry if a family member dies from it regardless and I will be angry due to misinformation/fear/paranoia, but also unfeeling fools who were more concerned about being right than trying to communicate with their fellow man!

It's not like getting a shot locks you up in prison restricting your freedom. I got the shots and went along my merry way rest of the day. Ate, slept, log into work from home, take a dump every once in a while. What freedoms are being taken away?

DUH, I am well aware of this as I am...you get it

Literally the only freedom they’re having taken away is the ability to not do what they’re being asked to.

It’s like children being mad they’ve been told to come in from play time because it’s dark, and the perverts have come out.

Yeah wrong, (assuming you're referring to States here)
Many have had their places of business shuttered and gone broke due to asinine and oxi-moronic restrictions set, they just had a President say the federal Government would dictate their vaccination policy for their private business.

I can only assume many of you on here are still gainfully employed, to not have an ounce of sympathy in this regard

The Civil War comes to mind.

Plenty of wealthy Southerners including those that aided the North had their land/wealth confiscated and that's not even touching the hornets nest that was "reconstruction" in the freed south that spelled horrid conditions for many Africans ( the birth of "black codes)

Did he really? What's the quote?

SLUR Def 3
to cast aspersions on; calumniate; disparage; depreciate:The candidate was viciously slurred by his opponent.

"What makes it incredibly more frustrating is that we have the tools to combat Covid-19, and a distinct minority of Americans, supported by a distinct minority of elected officials, are keeping us from turning the corner. These pandemic politics, as I refer to, are making people sick, causing unvaccinated people to die."

"We’ve been patient, but our patience is wearing thin. And your refusal has cost all of us."

"We cannot let unvaccinated do this progress — undo it. Turn it back. So tonight I’m announcing additional steps to strengthen our economic recovery."

Blames and groups (again that's the real crux of the problem) all those who question the vaccine or plan, ignoring that he and his constituents also played these very same "pandemic politics" back in the tail end of the Trump admin, I am aware that there was hope in there too (honestly a decent speech considering who gave it) but those who already don't trust him won't be moved to by being blamed be the "anti-vaxers" or politicians

Oh and if our Presidents words are that important, than how about this doozy from Aug. 06 20

"The way he (Trump) talks about the vaccine is not particularly rational. He’s talking about it being ready, he’s going to talk about moving it quicker than the scientists think it should be moved … . People don’t believe that he’s telling the truth, therefore they’re not at all certain they’re going to take the vaccine. And one more thing: If and when the vaccine comes, it’s not likely to go through all the tests that need to be done, and the trials that are needed to be done"

Sound familiar"

how about this one?

“Scientific breakthroughs don’t care about calendars any more than the virus does. They certainly don’t adhere to election cycles. And their timing, their approval and distribution, should never, ever be distorted by political considerations,”

Biden was preaching the same thing that many who were skeptical of the vaccines did, that we should ask questions and not blindly follow, but that went out the window now huh...I encourage people to get the vaccine, I don't talk down to them or look at them as if they're below me.

We all come from different walks of life and different opinions/views/ideals and as such you have to reach out to your fellow man rather than demand

 

[Chaplain]

 

[funkygunther]

Why would imploring people show empathy for their fellow human require examples? Simply asking my fellow Gaf brethren to see that if you want this Country to heal (let alone the world) that labeling doesn't solve shit.

The Science is on YOUR side (mine too FYI), we KNOW the vaccines work, and though they don't grant blanket immunity, they do give a very high level of protection...That's not the issue here, it's the demonization of anyone who even "questions" the vaccine/mask/other BS being spewed by governing bodies...

look at areas of Austrailia, look at the overreach and insane measurements they have taken. When people brought up the "removal and lockdown" of those who had the virus, they were shot down with "yeah but it's like a hotel room" ignoring the whole lockdown aspect in the first place.

Again ignore those that have gone off the deep end and are foaming at the mouth, you can't reason with a blind idealist, but do you truly think well over two thirds of the Country are crazies? no they are MISINFORMED! Not saying they're guiltless in this, but attacking them only makes it easier to mislead them in the long run.

The following (see examples lol) is a channel on Youtube commonly shared on Facebook pages



Only issue...shit almost never works, and they can even be dangerous



The point being selling mis-information is VERY easy to do, when it offers a simple easy explanation, and that's just a chunk of those who are anti-vax, they are feeding their mis-trust from people who are deliberately lying to them.

Without examples "show empathy" is a pointless virtue signalling platitude. Okay, Bill and Ted, be excellent to each other, now what? I am excellent to everyone, not a problem for me.

Without examples you have set up a nice demonisation strawman that let's you complain about "OUR" side, lets you say some people are attacking some people with absolutely no evidence or proof of consequence. That consequence being the opposite of what "OUR" side apparently want to achieve.

And lastly, without examples, I can just as easily say that posters here offer rational and measured responses to both antivax conman and antivax conned who equally double-down, move goalposts, play victim and then bugger off out the thread. And that would be just as valid an observation as "OUR" side attacking everyone that comes in here with questions.

 

[funkygunther]

The top story..

What "top story"? Your story is from February 2020...

 

[MisterFalcon]

You will never change their minds if you can't at the minimum hear them out and see WHY they don't want the vaccine.

Why they don't want is usually is a massive overestimation of their own capabilities. Like how they 'want to do more research' without even looking up what mRNA stands for as if the insight into this insanely complicated biological science will appear to them in a flash. Or faith in their immune system which will just brush of this disease that killed tons of people exactly as healthy as they are.

And trying to change their mind will at some point involve pointing out these shortcomings and that always gets a hostile response, leading to further retreat into refusal.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

You think that is an excuse for what many see (myself included) as mass Government overreach (not US only FYI)?

Congratulations on living through your first worldwide pandemic! You and I are lucky indeed it killed ‘only’ 4mln people.
You seem to treat the situation as another ‘just a flu bro, but a bit worse’ situation. It isn’t.

Was the government response great? No. Would it have been much, much worse if the government stuck to yours ‘let’s not overreach’? Surely.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Why they don't want is usually is a massive overestimation of their own capabilities. Like how they 'want to do more research' without even looking up what mRNA stands for as if the insight into this insanely complicated biological science will appear to them in a flash. Or faith in their immune system which will just brush of this disease that killed tons of people exactly as healthy as they are.

And trying to change their mind will at some point involve pointing out these shortcomings and that always gets a hostile response, leading to further retreat into refusal.

Every topic in life will have people who agree and disagree based on personal experience and what they hear.

For something like covid vaccines which is an out of the blue event compared to getting polio shots when youre a kid and dont remember, people use personal experience (I never get sick so I dont need it) and external sources for confirmation.

The problem with the first one is the reason why many of us dont get polio or some weird disease like people did 70 years ago is because a shit load of us got vaccinated when we were toddlers and dont even know or remember we got it probably 10 vaccines already.

As for external sources, the ones being anti-vax are typically big on weird propaganda sites. It's like me getting once a year in my mailbox (neighbourhood community box with lock and key) this sketchy short newspaper made by some oddball fuckups about anti-government and anti-Jewish articles. If I ever get that again, I'll take a pic and post it. How this rag has enough money to print and mail it to people through Canada Post who the hell knows. I guess they got a big enough following to make money and send to people's homes.

This is the kind of media a fearmongerer would believe as legitimate material.

 

[Rentahamster]

Plenty of wealthy Southerners including those that aided the North had their land/wealth confiscated and that's not even touching the hornets nest that was "reconstruction" in the freed south that spelled horrid conditions for many Africans ( the birth of "black codes)

That's not a rebuttal to my answer.

President Lincoln suspended habeas corpus due to the emergency of the Civil War. You asked, "When has a Governing body stopped their overreach after a crisis was over?", so I ask you - is habeas corpus still suspended?

SLUR Def 3
to cast aspersions on; calumniate; disparage; depreciate:The candidate was viciously slurred by his opponent.

"What makes it incredibly more frustrating is that we have the tools to combat Covid-19, and a distinct minority of Americans, supported by a distinct minority of elected officials, are keeping us from turning the corner. These pandemic politics, as I refer to, are making people sick, causing unvaccinated people to die."

"We’ve been patient, but our patience is wearing thin. And your refusal has cost all of us."

"We cannot let unvaccinated do this progress — undo it. Turn it back. So tonight I’m announcing additional steps to strengthen our economic recovery."

Those aren't slurs. Those are facts. Facts don't care about feelings.

 

[LMJ]

Why they don't want is usually is a massive overestimation of their own capabilities. Like how they 'want to do more research' without even looking up what mRNA stands for as if the insight into this insanely complicated biological science will appear to them in a flash. Or faith in their immune system which will just brush of this disease that killed tons of people exactly as healthy as they are.

And trying to change their mind will at some point involve pointing out these shortcomings and that always gets a hostile response, leading to further retreat into refusal.

Well said, that is indeed part of the problem, and then hubris mixed with naivety or ignorance plus a healthy dose of what StreetsofBeige touched on are a recipe for disaster. Thank you for showing some freaking relatability to some of these "anti-vaxers" concerns.

Yes there is a dangerous mentality in some that makes them believe they are invulnerable, personally I've found reasoning with them is more about others than themselves, in the case of my friend it was his aunt with diabetes that made him seriously think about the jab...he's invincible, but she is most certainly not (quite over weight)

Congratulations on living through your first worldwide pandemic! You and I are lucky indeed it killed ‘only’ 4mln people.

A true shame, it really is...

Any life lost is a tragedy, and we have lost so many, I repeat I am ACTUALLY on YOUR side in the sense I want to see more vaccinations and less death, but our ways to achieve the means to get there couldn't be more different.

You seem to treat the situation as another ‘just a flu bro, but a bit worse’ situation. It isn’t.

Nope, not even close, but screw you for your generalization

Was the government response great? No. Would it have been much, much worse if the government stuck to yours ‘let’s not overreach’? Surely.

Yeah I'll disagree there, politics and class division is a HUGE reason we are currently in this mess here in the states, and both sides of our government and our addiction to cancel culture/social media are part of the reason as well.

Also you have no definitive proof of that statement, the overreach JUST went into effect and may be shot down by the Supreme Court...so time will tell.

Again you're referring to State level governance, and yeah it varied heavily, but you know what almost every single American did...a two week quarantine for safety purposes,

That's not a rebuttal to my answer.

President Lincoln suspended habeas corpus due to the emergency of the Civil War. You asked, "When has a Governing body stopped their overreach after a crisis was over?", so I ask you - is habeas corpus still suspended?

Got me there lol (can't believe I spaced that) a point to you good sir

Those aren't slurs. Those are facts. Facts don't care about feelings.

Nope, by definition lumping all of those who haven't been vaccinated (including the auto immune BTW...that's what grouping does) is indeed a slur against them, you can't place the current economic, social and political issues squarely on their shoulders.

 

[FunkMiller]

Bully?

Hmmm

How demonstrative a reply.

You make a statement about something. Another person with better information and understanding of it than you counters that statement. You ignore what they’re saying, even though they know better than you.

How anti-vax of you.

Do carry on having fun with the others, though. I won’t be replying to you again, because you clearly have no capacity to accept or believe what anyone else is telling you.

 

[BadBurger]

Anti-vax, long-ass posts

 

[Rentahamster]

Any life lost is a tragedy, and we have lost so many, I repeat I am ACTUALLY on YOUR side in the sense I want to see more vaccinations and less death, but our ways to achieve the means to get there couldn't be more different.

If you're in charge, what would you do differently to achieve the goal of more vaccinations and less death, and why should I believe you that it would work?

Nope, by definition lumping all of those who haven't been vaccinated (including the auto immune BTW...that's what grouping does) is indeed a slur against them, you can't place the current economic, social and political issues squarely on their shoulders.

Then you're misunderstanding those words, because that's not what he's doing. He's not including people who want to take the vaccine but can't.

 

[Jaysen]

Getting carded (ID) to gain access to a 21 and over bar or night club.

Getting carded (vaccination status + ID) to gain access to the same night club.

Both actions amount to getting your "papers checked". Is one reasonable and another unreasonable? How are they different and how are they alike?

Grocery stores also card people when they buy alcohol. When’s the last time you heard the “muh freedumb” people whining like babies about that? Don’t expect consistency from anti-vaxxer dumbshits.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

Gas station clerk murdered for asking a customer to wear a mask​

Gas station clerk murdered for asking a customer to wear a mask

One German politician warned of "an inconceivable level of radicalization," saying the worker was killed for simply pointing out a nationwide rule.

www.cbsnews.com

Berlin — Senior politicians in Germany expressed shock over the weekend killing of a young gas station clerk who asked a customer to wear a face mask, and they warned Tuesday against the radicalization of people who oppose the country's coronavirus pandemic restrictions. A 49-year-old German man was arrested in the fatal Saturday shooting of the clerk in the western town of Idar-Oberstein. The suspect is being held on suspicion of murder.

Authorities said the man told officers he acted "out of anger" after being refused service for not wearing a mask while trying to buy beer.