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Game Dev CEO of HOUSEMARQUE: we are truly thankful to our publishing partner Sony, who has given us an opportunity to work on something very risky.

Mr Moose

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actually you are wrong.

first party would be when IP is developed in their own studios.(naughty dog developing uncharted)
second party when their IP developed by other studio outside their own.( from software developing bloodborne, or recturnal by housemarque or sackboy)
third party when you are publishing the game which you don't hold IP rights and is developed by studio outside your own ( these are time exclusive but there are plenty and simple exclusives. f.epl : Team Ninja developing NioH)
 

Men_in_Boxes

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Bad video game is a video game. Bad! Not good! Linear is bad. Gameplay is bad. Cutscenes bad. Everything so bad.

That has nothing to do with my point.

I was responding to a poster who said Returnal marked a refreshing change of pace from Sony's usual fare.

A linear third person shooter with a bunch of underpowered enemies thrown in isn't exactly a big leap for Sony.

Oh Ratchet and Clank is a month away...
 

Dr Bass

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That has nothing to do with my point.

I was responding to a poster who said Returnal marked a refreshing change of pace from Sony's usual fare.

A linear third person shooter with a bunch of underpowered enemies thrown in isn't exactly a big leap for Sony.

Oh Ratchet and Clank is a month away...

I can play this stupid game.

You know what would be a refreshing change of pace for Microsoft?

A ... video game. Of any kind.



Just to note, I don't agree with posting like this, but this guys schtick is incredibly old.
 

manfestival

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Kinda, but there's no such thing as 2nd party, the game is 1st party.
Of course, but it is still ultimately in agreement. The term is just being used unofficially to describe what was stated in the tweet and in that post. Hence why there is an agreement.
 
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Dr Bass

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Literally everyone. PS2 gameplay = running avatar shoots at things. Zero next gen game mechanics, extensive, inovative traversing, next gen AI, rope-soft-hard-fluid physics, non-static terrain, etc. etc. etc. etc. "PS2 gameplay". The PS2 can play this game playfully.

Returnal is a simple action TPS AA rogue like game, gameplay-wise class PS2. Deal with it. Housemarque knows what they did.

Man, good games drive single platform players absolutely insane when it's not on their platform of choice. This reads like total 🐴:lollipop_poop:

I already bought this game and am looking forward to trying it.

I also hope Starfield is awesome.

It's really easy guys.
 

eyesabitdull

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You weren't in before the whole "Roguelikes suck ass" though, which they do.

And?

A lot of game genres suck ass for a lot of people for a lot of different reasons.

The point is that this particular genre is getting its first AAA jump into the industry.

So for that, I congratulate Housemarque and wish them good luck.

They're going to need it.
 

MHubert

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I'll ask you what that looney clowned himself on too

Why is Naughty Dog called a first party developer
What? These are, and has always been, the definitions on how these terms are used. You act like this is up for debate.

Naughty Dog is a Playstation first party developer because they are a more or less self-governing company owned by Sony. Because they are a more or less self governing company (unit), they can be considered a 'party', and because they are owned by Sony, and create software within the Playstation portfolio, they fall in to the category '1st party'.
Returnal is not a company, nor can it be considered a more or less self governing unit. It is an IP, or franchise, if you will. Because of this, Returnal cannot be considered a 'party'; be it 1st, 3rd or the commonly made-up 2nd.

If you absolutely insist on using these terms, the correct one for Returnal is 'third party exclusive'.

But again, please, just show me something official that supports your definition. Anything.
 
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What? These are, and has always been, the definitions on how these terms are used. You act like this is up for debate.

Naughty Dog is a Playstation first party developer because they are a more or less self-governing company owned by Sony. Because they are a more or less self governing company (unit), they can be considered a 'party', and because they are owned by Sony, and create software within the Playstation portfolio, they fall in to the category '1st party'.
Returnal is not a company, nor can it be considered a more or less self governing unit. It is an IP, or franchise, if you will. Because of this, Returnal cannot be considered a 'party'; be it 1st, 3rd or the commonly made-up 2nd.

I'm about done with this retardation now

Go check Sony's financials or something. They mention two things

First party game revenue and non-first game revenue. Now I know you're still going to be dumb enough to claim Sony puts games like Returnal, or Demon's souls under the non-first party category, so that it's for me
 
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Dlacy13g

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Housemarque is a prime example of the importance of 1st party projects. Now, I do understand that technically this is not first party but given their catalogue and platforms they have worked on since about 2008... they really have been a first party studio to Sony. Their choice to focus on Sony platforms coupled with Sony backed support gives them freedom to dig deep into the hardware and tools and make something that looks and feels next gen. It also really helps that they just are a talented group too. Glad to see this game is being received well.
 

killatopak

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I mean it’s right there at the Insomniac tweets.

Insomniac(3rd Party)(Date of tweet is 2017) makes Spiderman which is published and owned by Sony = 1st Party

Housemarque(3rd Party) makes Returnal which is published and owned by Sony = 1st party.

It came straight from the horse’s mouth.
 

Men_in_Boxes

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I can play this stupid game.

You know what would be a refreshing change of pace for Microsoft?

A ... video game. Of any kind.



Just to note, I don't agree with posting like this, but this guys schtick is incredibly old.

Because critiquing Sony's output automatically means "console war!". MS has nothing to do with this.




 
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Dr Bass

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Because critiquing Sony's output automatically means "console war!". MS has nothing to do with this.





Your posts are just completely transparent and get old to read. They aren't the same game at all. And like I said, at least Sony is making games right now. I mean, geez. You can pick a first person view. Or a third person view. And a LOT of games for better or worse use shooting as a mechanic. You know, like Gears 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 and Halo 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, Reach, Infinite, and tons and tons of 3rd party games. This observation just isn't accurate, nor clever.

But you made a solid attempt at plausible deniability, I'll give you that.
 
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yurinka

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Kinda, but there's no such thing as 2nd party, the game is 1st party.
Just like Spider-Man was still a 1st party game before Insomniac were purchased.
2nd party are 1st party games too.

1st party are games published by the platform holder.
3rd party are games published by someone who isn't that platform holder.
2nd party are 1st party games (so published by the platform holder) developed by an estudio who isn't owned by that platform holder.

Studios owned by the platform holder are known as 1st party studios
Studios not owned by the platform holder are known as 3rd party studios

None of the '1st party', '2nd party', '3rd party' terms are something that appears in dictionaries, because home videogames are relatively new. Specially 2nd party, since it's something that started in the 90s or so.
 
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MHubert

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I'm about done with this retardation now

Go check Sony's financials or something.
If Sony's financials prove that you are right then how about giving me that freaking link I have been begging you to provide me all along.

'Go check Sony's financials or something' like holy fucking diver..
 
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MHubert

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That’s from an earning’s report. All games here are published by Nintendo.



As you can see, the only non first party games have the asterisk as they have a different publisher inside Japan. For all intents in purposes, those without asterisks are first party games while those without are third party games.
Excuse me if I'm missing something, but I don't see Nintendo differentiating between 1st or 3rd party here? It only seems like they are distinguishing what is licensed as a Nintendo product and what is not.
 
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Men_in_Boxes

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you cant be serious

Yes...there are differences between both games.

But what is the player actually doing?

Pushing up on the left stick (because levels are linear), running into hundreds of underpowered enemies with simplistic behavior routines and weak points, light platforming elements, die-restart at checkpoint loop, watching short cutscenes every 17 minutes...

Returnal...Ratchet and Clank...Kena: BoS

Sony will shed it's "good at one type of game" reputation soon enough. Returnal isn't going to help them get there though.

Btw, I don't even hate Returnal. It's a new IP by a growing indie developer. Playing it moderately safe here was the smart play.
 
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Keihart

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I think the roguelike element as a AAA game is VERY risky. Roguelike fans are usually a minority and very hardcore, this is literally exposing the genre to a wider audience with a big budget.
It's very risky indeed, but since FromSoftware's success it's not unheard of.
I have my gripes with the game being priced at 70 and not looking up to par with those expectations for me, but this is definitely the kind of game i like PS Studios helping develop, I'm really excited for the next game from Housemarque if this is a success.
 
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Keihart

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Kinda, but there's no such thing as 2nd party, the game is 1st party.
Just like Spider-Man was still a 1st party game before Insomniac were purchased.
The classification of 2nd party it's useful regardless of being "official" or not, it's giving extra information not contained in either first or third party.
It's pretty clear what a first, second or third party game is, why even bother with "but second party doesn't exist" narrative...that is , unless you are doing list wars.
 

ethomaz

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The classification of 2nd party it's useful regardless of being "official" or not, it's giving extra information not contained in either first or third party.
It's pretty clear what a first, second or third party game is, why even bother with "but second party doesn't exist" narrative...that is , unless you are doing list wars.
Just a correcting.

There is no second-party game... there is informally second-party studio.
Game is either first or third party.
 
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Boglin

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Third Party software:
"software created by programmers or publishers independent of the manufacturer of the hardware for which it is intended"
Housemarque was paid by Sony to develop the game for PS5 therefore did not create it independent of the manufacturer. They were completely dependent on Sony to fund the project and to use Sony's IP so Returnal does not fit the definition of third party software.

Am I missing something?
 
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Mr Moose

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The classification of 2nd party it's useful regardless of being "official" or not, it's giving extra information not contained in either first or third party.
It's pretty clear what a first, second or third party game is, why even bother with "but second party doesn't exist" narrative...that is , unless you are doing list wars.
The way I see it is like games, there's first person games, and third person games, I've never seen a second person game.
Camera within (first person perspective), camera outside (3rd person perspective).
First party game (owned IP, like this game), third party game (someone else owns it, like Metal Gear Solid 4).
First party studio (owned studio, like Naughty Dog), third party studio (studio that isn't owned by them, like Housemarque).
 

MHubert

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Returnal is 1st party (PlayStation Studios)

Sony FY 2018
PS4 1st party software titles
-Bloodborne, Detroit, Spiderman

Fair enough - can't argue with what comes straight from the horses' mouth.
I still think it is a weird use of the terms, but I digress.
Time to eat crow. Thank you for taking the time to prove me wrong.
 
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Keihart

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The way I see it is like games, there's first person games, and third person games, I've never seen a second person game.
Camera within (first person perspective), camera outside (3rd person perspective).
First party game (owned IP, like this game), third party game (someone else owns it, like Metal Gear Solid 4).
First party studio (owned studio, like Naughty Dog), third party studio (studio that isn't owned by them, like Housemarque).
There is nothing about personal perspective in the use of the term, it's about conveying information. Second party does have information in it that it's not present in the other terms, whatever your personal bias is to either of them.
It's not a new term, and has always been around since it became a thing. It was never mean t to be some official term, just a descriptive one.

Nothing to do with camera perspective, i don't see how that analogy even comes close to be comparable.
 
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There is nothing about personal perspective in the use of the term, it's about conveying information. Second party does have information in it that it's not present in the other terms, whatever your personal bias is to either of them.
It's not a new term, and has always been around since it became a thing. It was never mean t to be some official term, just a descriptive one.

Nothing to do with camera perspective, i don't see how that analogy even comes close to be comparable.

Second party was used to describe games where IP or studio ownership wasn't black and white. Retro back in the day and arguable for pokemon now. It's a rare use case.

It was never used for third party contracts
 
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Withnail

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The way I see it is like games, there's first person games, and third person games, I've never seen a second person game.
Camera within (first person perspective), camera outside (3rd person perspective).
First party game (owned IP, like this game), third party game (someone else owns it, like Metal Gear Solid 4).
First party studio (owned studio, like Naughty Dog), third party studio (studio that isn't owned by them, like Housemarque).

The ownership of the studio is completely irrelevant, I've never known why people think it's important.

If a game is published by Sony, it's first party; otherwise it's third party. Simple.
 
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Keihart

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Second party was used to describe games where IP or studio ownership wasn't black and white. Retro back in the day and arguable for pokemon now

It was never used for third party contracts
Every Imsomiac game was considered a second party game, how is that not fitting to this?
 

Mr Moose

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There is nothing about personal perspective in the use of the term, it's about conveying information. Second party does have information in it that it's not present in the other terms, whatever your personal bias is to either of them.
It's not a new term, and has always been around since it became a thing. It was never mean t to be some official term, just a descriptive one.

Nothing to do with camera perspective, i don't see how that analogy even comes close to be comparable.
I don't care what people call things, I say 1st party and 3rd party. You can say 2nd party if you wish.
People are saying this game is a 3rd party game, it is not. It's a 1st party game developed by a 3rd party developer.

Every Imsomiac game was considered a second party game, how is that not fitting to this?
You have Insomniac themselves saying 2nd party doesn't really exist, they made 1st party games when they were a 3rd party studio.
 
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It's a very risky project that went well due to the talent of HM and Sony's investment.

And because of games like this, Demons Souls or Nier, I will always support paying the money they are worth instead of service-begging and price-bitching as it's trending nowadays.
 

LMJ

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Yes...there are differences between both games.

But what is the player actually doing?

Pushing up on the left stick (because levels are linear), running into hundreds of underpowered enemies with simplistic behavior routines and weak points, light platforming elements, die-restart at checkpoint loop, watching short cutscenes every 17 minutes...

Returnal...Ratchet and Clank...Kena: BoS

Sony will shed it's "good at one type of game" reputation soon enough. Returnal isn't going to help them get there though.

Btw, I don't even hate Returnal. It's a new IP by a growing indie developer. Playing it moderately safe here was the smart play.
billy madison idiot GIF
 
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Negotiator101

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And Sony owns returnal

Holy shit you figured it out congratulations

You're using unqualified randos on the internet as a source of evidence
Mate you are wrong, Sony owns the IP but not the developer. They are a third party developer working for Sony on a Sony owned IP. Same scenario with Microsoft and Killer Instinct.
 

Keihart

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Yeah I know, it was unoffically used for special cases, as I just said
So, despite whatever Jason says, all of Imsomniac games were second party. Third party developed first party games.
What so touchy about it, i don't get why suddenly it's treated like a taboo term when it's been around for decades and never used in a derogatory fashion before.

It only describes the very usual situation of first party games developed by a third party studio, so to speak.

Edit: on second thought, i get it. The PS Studios new logo might want to bring all those second party games as developed in house, so the perception of itbeing developed out house (as right as it is) might not be ideal from a marketing POV.
 
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SLB1904

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Mate you are wrong, Sony owns the IP but not the developer. They are a third party developer working for Sony on a Sony owned IP. Same scenario with Microsoft and Killer Instinct.
thats literally what we are trying to say lol
 
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So, despite whatever Jason says, all of Imsomniac games were second party. Third party developed first party games.
What so touchy about it, i don't get why suddenly it's trated like a taboo term when it's been around for decades and never used in a derogatory fashion before.

It only describes the very usual situation of first party games developed by a third party studio, so to speak.

Because you're completely ignoring what i'm saying.

Second party was a special case for cases like Rare, who was only partially owned by nintendo, or for pokemon which is co owned by Nintendo and Game Freak

There was no nuance to Insomniac and PlayStation's releationship or the games, so second party is a redundent term
 
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ethomaz

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Every Imsomiac game was considered a second party game, how is that not fitting to this?
Err... Insomniac games were mostly 1st-party... the exceptions are the game their own like Sunset Overdrive, Fuse, etc that are 3rd-party games.

Insomniac was considered a 2nd-party studio for Sony.
 
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