FalsettoVibe
Member
I can agree with this. What I am against is 100% return to office for reasons other than productivity issues. If productivity isn't a problem then there shouldn't be a problem with hybrid approaches.
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[Bloomberg] ‘Grand Theft Auto’ Maker Rockstar Games Asks Workers to Return to Office Five Days a Week
- Thread starter Thick Thighs Save Lives
- Start date
- Game Dev
I can agree with this. What I am against is 100% return to office for reasons other than productivity issues. If productivity isn't a problem then there shouldn't be a problem with hybrid approaches.
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
I think Hybrid is the right choice. I go into the office a couple of times a week. If it was daily, I would probably look for another job, based on the journey time mainly, but partly the expense. Travel (which is by far the biggest part) and food and drink would easily be over £100 a week. Maybe as much as £150. Welcome to London commuting.
I get all my work done, either at home or the office and never miss a deadline, I can see benefit in being able to catch up with my manager, etc. But half the time he's not around anyway.
I get all my work done, either at home or the office and never miss a deadline, I can see benefit in being able to catch up with my manager, etc. But half the time he's not around anyway.
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Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Because companies started advertising it as a perk
TheBomb
Member
For me it’s just so much convenience. I think someone posting running errands, and so on.
nush
Member
This was the biggest issue for me, one job had hour and the cost of petrol only because many companies want a vanity address and the directors can afford to live local while the rest of us could not.
TheBomb
Member
I wonder how the game would like if everyone was in the office, and don’t get me wrong it looks great now. That would be a great study.
Buhaj
Member
Envy they can't work from home themselves.
Fake
Member
Well, they are hiring people that both hate programing and gaming, so I can't expect anything different.
I suggest people watching the Halo video from crowbat.
Randall365
Member
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
I agree, it's ridiculous, as far as I know barely anyone lives within an hour of the office, let alone half an hour. Because, the cost of property is absolutely insane.
mitch1971
Member
Maybe they can't do it at their own place of employment.
Bojji
Member
Majority of people that aren't doing office jobs can't do WFM. So people are tired of whining from group that already had relatively good conditions of work (don't have to do more than 1 shift, not working on Saturdays etc.) even before COVID.
Rocco Schiavone
Member
Don't know why this shit is even news worthy.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Gaf leans right.
theHFIC
Member
I can’t speak for everyone else, but you sum up my reasons for making fun of them by putting the word “work” in quotes.
MonkD
Member
I was honestly just trying to be funny with that. I've had plenty more people at the offices and stores I've worked in who contribute jack shit.
Coming from someone who've worked in a field where 100+ weeks are expected seasonally, productivity did not go down during covid, but rather the opposite. Productivity has always been a staff/manager issue in my experience, not remote/on prem.
You calling remote workers "them" makes me think you're not working remotely yourself?
StereoVsn
Member
It would really depend on the particular workload on the day in question.
If you are don’t normal dev/scripting/documentation, oftentimes you can be more productive at home when Bob, Jane, Jim or Jack aren’t going to engage you in conversations and your VP / manager will ask for crap that they really should just call Tier 1/2 support for … but you are right there
. Add in commute time, going to cafeteria/running out for lunch, and you are less productive in the office. I work longer hours at home if I don’t count commute as a comparison.
Now, if you need to discuss architecture, have BD proposal to talk through, or having issues with a sprint , then yeah, Office would be better.
Which is why Hybrid, IMO, is best bet. At least some remote work is also good at attracting employees and sometimes it’s just easier to hire for certain positions with fully remote depending on location.
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
Goes hand in hand with right wing politics, which is how I perceive most people's views here. Certainly here in the UK, all the right wing papers / broadcasters hated WFH. Mostly because the parent companies had so much money tied up in office space that was rapidly devaluing. It's also why conservative MP's were pretending to be really worried about Coffee shops going out of business.
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TheSHEEEP
Gold Member
Yeah, it's a bit insane.Goes hand in hand with right wing politics, which is how I perceive most people's views here. Certainly here in the UK, all the right wing papers / broadcasters hated WFH.
Just envy, I think.
"I can't work from home, therefore I want everybody else to suffer like I do." Bit of a shit mindset to have, but that's just people nowadays.
Been working from home almost exclusively for the last 6-7 years, being paid very well, too, and get everything done (or else I don't think I'd be paid or hired still as a freelancer
).Obviously not possible for every type of job, but any kind of software development (which game development is) can 100% be done remotely, or at least something like 50/50 office/home.
But, hey, just more employers taking themselves out of the pool for a lot of people.
Not that working in games would be a smart move career-wise, anyway.
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I understand that, but org in question was not sales or customer facing, we didn't have an increase in order intake or product demand. I was referring to raw productivity of engineering/dev teams, almost entirely on the back of becoming 100% remote overnight.
I believe it's more about how so many people realized how much time is wasted in the office, how much of their personal time is wasted traveling to/from work, how much more efficient their life can be when working from home, and how much less frustration/anxiety/etc they have by working in a more sane situation.
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
Yeah, it's a bit insane.
Just envy, I think.
"I can't work from home, therefore I want nobody else to suffer like I do." Bit of a shit mindset to have, but that's just people nowadays.
Been working from home almost exclusively for the last 6-7 years, being paid very well, too, and get everything done (or else I don't think I'd be paid or hired still as a freelancer
Obviously not possible for every type of job, but any kind of software development (which game development is) can 100% be done remotely, or at least something like 50/50 office/home.
But, hey, just more employers taking themselves out of the pool for a lot of people.
I'm a freelancer too, I think that kind of setup is possibly more justifiable for even the most staunch pro-office person. As a freelancer someone asks me to do something and I can tell them how long it'll take and what it'll cost (within reason) and then that's down to them to decide to go ahead or not.
With an employee, there's perhaps elements of employing someone with the intent of getting someone who will grow into a role and gain skills as they go along. So even I can see that being of benefit to everyone. But I don't think that's the case across the board, and certainly not the driver for most people's pushback - it's that they assume people are workshy and lazy and just sitting around posting on video game forums all day.
...Oh shit.
Better get back to it!
TheBomb
Member
Of course it is. It’s common sense. You don’t need a disease outbreak to tell me that.
Dazraell
Member
I personally noticed being more productive while working remotely from home for a very simple reason. Instead of having to attend pointless meetings in person, I can join the conference on Teams, listen to the meeting and work on my stuff in the background while chiming in when I'm asked or have to speak
Hugare
Member
If you are working with the best, you should know damn well that you will overwork/crunch like hell
Masterpieces arent made while you are working from home. It is what it is.
That's why old people who already worked their butts off for years would rather work in small projects. They prioritize quality of life instead of a better resumé.
Some of the most talented individuals in the gaming industry probably arent working at ND/Rockstar 'cause they would rather spend more time with their families than sleeping at work for better payment
Some people have to endure 2h of overcrowded public transportation while commuting (and 2h more going back home). Not to mention the expenses.
I get it that this is probably not your situation in Germany. But be open minded about other people's experiences.
I like working from office, but if I lived one block from my office, you can be sure that I would enjoy it a lot more
Masterpieces arent made while you are working from home. It is what it is.
That's why old people who already worked their butts off for years would rather work in small projects. They prioritize quality of life instead of a better resumé.
Some of the most talented individuals in the gaming industry probably arent working at ND/Rockstar 'cause they would rather spend more time with their families than sleeping at work for better payment
Some people have to endure 2h of overcrowded public transportation while commuting (and 2h more going back home). Not to mention the expenses.
I get it that this is probably not your situation in Germany. But be open minded about other people's experiences.
I like working from office, but if I lived one block from my office, you can be sure that I would enjoy it a lot more
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Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
Or less
Morrie’s wig shop
Member
Wait a minute……. Curt?
theHFIC
Member
I work for a company that does creative output for a popular media format. We went fully remote in March 2020 and never went back. I was and still am in charge of pivoting our company to this completely remote workflow in a field that is heavily audited by our clients for content security.
I personally go into the office every day even though I can do 80% of my job from my phone and the other 20% from a computer anywhere else. I prefer the focus of being in the office along with the separation of work life and job life. My fellow employees have opted to come in when it works best for them - client lunches, client visits to review work,holiday shopping since we are in a major metro area, etc.
My main complaints are with companies and employees that pivoted to WFH during the pandemic. People and companies that have always been remote I have no issue with. My main issues from experience are:
—Lack of respect for work/life balance. Some people may prefer working at night or early in the morning or whatever time they want. And they expect me to be around to support them at all of these hours instead of our designated business hours. I’m in a position where I can tell them to GFY if they try to get me to do something at 11 PM and I am playing Helldivers, but a lot of others out there can’t.
—Lack of respect for security. Having an office and air-gapped workflow helped ensured that our client content never left the office and wasn’t at risk of being interacted with by unauthorized parties. Now people are working wherever they want with whoever they want around them and NDAs become much harder to enforce. Talking with my industry peers, this isn’t an isolated problem and exists industry wide. While there have been some small leaks in our industry, there hasn’t been a Rockstar or Insomniac level one yet since pandemic and all it will take is that to happen before the major clients really start cracking down and bringing more work in house which puts places like where I work in trouble.
—Large drop in creative output. With everyone in their own isolated silos, there has been a significant drop in what we are creating. No one is working with others to increase their technical and creative abilities. New employees are quitting almost as soon as they start because they have no path to move up in the organization because no one is around to mentor them in the field or even provide the feedback they need other than to churn out grunt work all starting employees have to do.
There are some positives. If it is shitty out and I don’t want to go into the office, I don’t go in. If I want to go home and work in the afternoon, I go home. But like others have mentioned here, people oversharing on social channels how much non-work they do without their bosses knowing will ruin it for all of us.
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
For some large studios, maybe. For most studios, especially the small and midsized ones, I don't buy it.SeeMen_in_Boxes , I feel posts like the below show that politics are involved in these decisions. I fully believe that not only do people in power at these companies believe this way, but they are also heavily influenced by city and state government.
I think this is what's happening. A small percentage of people are generally more efficient at WFH. A much larger percentage of people prefer WFH and try to convince themselves, as well as others, that they're more efficient there. We see ResetERA types embrace this line of thinking..."They're only doing it to stimulate the local economy." And then 90 seconds later they're saying "Capitalism is nothing but greed."
Well which is it?
ThaMonkeyClaw
Member
Same here, if anything the productivity of our team has greatly improved, it's nice not having to waste 2 hours of each day sitting in traffic. Plus things work quicker being on my home internet through a VPN instead of dealing with our shitty office internet speeds, that as tell distractions of idiots wanting to chit chat throughout the day slowing me down.
cash_longfellow
Gold Member
Same here!
Esppiral
Member
I asume they can't do remote work, either their company do not allow It or their work must be done in place, so they think If I can't no one can.
Bernardougf
Gold Member
I love that people act like home office is some new break trough discovery that improves work and diminish costs but companys simple couldn't think of it or implement in pre pandemic times. But now is this revolutionary way of working that in no way can be worse than what 99% of companys did 4 years ago before a virus change our way of life.
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MonkD
Member
Especially agree with the last part. People abusing the trust needed in order to work remotely will break the model if it keeps going this way.
I don't blame WFH though, I think it's a degradation of work ethics. And I've seen it more prominently with the younger generation, especially with those who come straight of out of college/university. I've posted in the Insominac thread too, but it seems common for game developers to have a very relaxed work environment, where a lot of effort and money is put into food/extracurriculars/gadgets, so even if they are at the office it seems more like a playground. In my mind this is stemming from a lack of proper direction and leadership. Would be interested to see Rockstars data on the productivity, not that it's odd to expect people to work from the office during crunch.
darrylgorn
Member
Yes, spending more time driving and less time available to work = more productive lol
Meanwhile, I wake up nice and early, get my shit done and enjoy the work day on top of everything from my comfy couch.
Meanwhile, I wake up nice and early, get my shit done and enjoy the work day on top of everything from my comfy couch.
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Tsaki
Member
Well that is a question for the R* management. They have all the analytics and if WFH improved the production of GTA6 when compared to office work, then they'd let them be. Why would they not in the end? It's their bottom line that would improve.
"the company also found "tangible benefits" from in-person work" No shit. People in the workplace will actually work and they'll take a walk a few desks around to ask a question to a senior dev or pass a quick idea to a colleague instead of having to Zoom call (hoping they are online and not sleeping on their own schedule) or make an appointment with them.
cormack12
Gold Member
Exactly this. Obviously these are perceptions but I think the industry needs to go through a phase of professionalism.
There's a lack of maturity generally, including fans, players and game devs. Moreso those who spend their lives online and plugged in.
But the attitude of getting a game out does mirror that sort of approach that most uni students pull where they don't make the most of all the front loaded time, leading to all nighters and coffee/drug fuelled papers submitted just in time.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I dont think it's tech only, but younger generation in general.
- Ghosting the hiring manager in interviews
- Quitting on the spot. No 2 or 3 week notice. They got another job lined up and thats fine. But instead of telling the boss a few weeks in advance, they purposely tell the day they are gone
I have never seen or heard of that ever from earlier in my career from young or veteran workers. it's more of a recent young people thing where their attitude is sticking it to people with zero respect.
its no different than school. Anyone growing up doing school in the 80s and early 90s you were pretty polite and respected teachers. Then something happened where it's common to be a rebel and mouth off.
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Efren is G.O.A.T.
Member
If people want to slack off and be unproductive they will find ways. Doesn't matter if it's at home or at the office. Motivation or lack thereof doesn't discriminate based on location.
MonkD
Member
Most business would probably have a contract that say that they will rent it for x amount of time. And renting it out second hand is a usually somewhat lengthy and legally complicated process. But you can definitely see a trend where larger business are downscaling their physical spaces whenever their office lease is up.
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