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Business Hardware Backward compatibility on discless SKU's for owners of retail discs

Xplainin

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Sony and MS will both offer a discless version of their consoles next gen. PS5 has already announced it, and MS already had one this gen.

So if someone buys the discless version of the PS5 or XSX, and they have a hundred PS4 or XO games on a hard drive, including games on discs, how is Sony or MS going to validate the games to allow people to have access to their full library?

Now I know some will just say, well you have to buy the model with the disc drive, but I'm not sure that will stack up legally, especially in the EU.
If you have bought the game, regardless of if its on disc or digital, you should have the right to play it.
Telling consumers that they are going to have to spend say $100 More on the console to play games already bought is a bit if a cop out.

I can see an issue for both companies down the track with this.
You bought the game, you have been told by Sony and MS that you will be able to play them next gen, but yet if you have bought the disc, then you have to buy the more expensive sku.

Even more so is if Lockhart is only discless then again, MS is really going to have to allow you to play your old games.
 
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nush

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A long haul flight from wherever you are.
but I'm not sure that will stack up legally, especially in the EU.
If you have bought the game, regardless of if its on disc or digital, you should have the right to play it.

What law are you quoting because this is too vague for a discussion point. You don't have the right to play old software on a totally different machine.

I don't have the right to play VHS on a UHD player.
 

Xplainin

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What law are you quoting because this is too vague for a discussion point. You don't have the right to play old software on a totally different machine.

I don't have the right to play VHS on a UHD player.
I have bought a game. I have been told I can play my game next gen. I buy a diskless version of a console, my game is not valid however, even if I paid for it.
If I buy a digital game, I can play it on either next gen consoles, either discless or disc.
 
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Xplainin

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How do you propose a discless machine should play discs?
If I have a hard drive full of 100 games that I have purchased, and I have them on disc, the disc is only used to validate I have the game, it doesn't play off the disc.
There should be a way to validate I own the game and still be allowed to play it even if I buy a discless console.
 
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Tiamat2san

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I am sure that if it’s mentioned somewhere on the box , that’s it’s only valid for digital games, they won’t have any problem in Europe.
 

Stuart360

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If you have already bought a game, and you have proof (like its linked to your Xbox/PSN account), and BC is available on the consoles, no way should you have to buy the game again, or subscribe to a service to play it etc. And if you do, i hope people can put aside brand loyalty and tell it for exactly what it is - wrong and scummy.
 
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Oct 26, 2018
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Sony and MS will both offer a discless version of their consoles next gen. PS5 has already announced it, and MS already had one this gen.

So if someone buys the discless version of the PS5 or XSX, and they have a hundred PS4 or XO games on a hard drive, including games on discs, how is Sony or MS going to validate the games to allow people to have access to their full library?

Now I know some will just say, well you have to buy the model with the disc drive, but I'm not sure that will stack up legally, especially in the EU.
If you have bought the game, regardless of if its on disc or digital, you should have the right to play it.
Telling consumers that they are going to have to spend say $100 More on the console to play games already bought is a bit if a cop out.

I can see an issue for both companies down the track with this.
You bought the game, you have been told by Sony and MS that you will be able to play them next gen, but yet if you have bought the disc, then you have to buy the more expensive sku.

Even more so is if Lockhart is only discless then again, MS is really going to have to allow you to play your old games.
If the digital game is stated to be BC, it will work. If it is not you're out of luck.

If you got discs you want to play, but buy the all digital system, that's you're issue. You gimped yourself with a gadget that doesn't play the medium. So buy the disc system.

It's not like MS or Sony are tricking gamers saying a digital only system will play discs.

When PCs transitioned to CD only drives and I buy one that only has a CD drive, how is it Dell's fault I can't play my 3.5 floppy?
 
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Xplainin

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If you have already bought a game, and you have proof (like its linked to your Xbox/PSN account), and BC is available on the consoles, no way should you have to buy the game again, or subscribe to a service to play it etc. And if you do, i hope people can put aside brand loyalty and tell it for exactly what it is - wrong and scummy.
Exactly, or have to pay $100 More for a console to have the privilege to play my own games.
 

GHG

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Sell all your physical games and rebuy them digitally, problem solved.

I know it sounds harsh and you will probably end up out of pocket but that's the only solution here to this problem if you are looking to go all digital next gen.

And let's be Frank, if you're buying an all digital console next gen then you can't care that much about physical media anyway.
 

Yoboman

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If I have a hard drive full of 100 games that I have purchased, and I have them on disc, the disc is only used to validate I have the game, it doesn't play off the disc.
There should be a way to validate I own the game and still be allowed to play it even if I buy a discless console.
What about games you've rented, traded in etc.?
 

Xplainin

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If the digital game is stated to be BC, it will work. If it is not you're out of luck.

If you got discs you want to play, but buy the all digital system, that's you're issue. You gimped yourself with a gadget that doesn't play the medium. So buy the disc system.

It's not like MS or Sony are tricking gamers saying a digital only system will play discs.

When PCs transitioned to CD only drives and I buy one that only has a CD drive, how is it Dell's fault I can't play my 3.5 floppy?
I have bought a licence to play that game. Sony and MS have said that licence will carry over to next gen.
It isnt true if I buy the discless console, and I would have to buy the game again.
There needs to be a way for you to validate your game ownership to be able to play it regardless.
 
Oct 26, 2018
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Exactly, or have to pay $100 More for a console to have the privilege to play my own games.
What you're looking for in a product is forever legacy support. When it comes to tech, it gets to a point tech moves on and leaves legacy support in the dust.

It's like having games run on a Windows 7 PC. You buy a new PC with Windows 10, and some reason the game won't play on a Win 10 machine.
 

Xplainin

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What law are you citing?

"My friend said" is of absolutely no value.

Told? Told by who, where? Link??
Sony and MS have said my games library of PS4 and Xbox One games will be able to be played on the PS5 and XSX.
My mate didnt tell me that, they did.
 
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Oct 26, 2018
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I have bought a licence to play that game. Sony and MS have said that licence will carry over to next gen.
It isnt true if I buy the discless console, and I would have to buy the game again.
There needs to be a way for you to validate your game ownership to be able to play it regardless.
Who says you have to rebuy digital games on next gen? Unless they are lying, MS said if it works on Xbox One, it will work on SeX.

Discs are different. They never said a disc will work on a digital only system.
 
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Xplainin

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What you're looking for in a product is forever legacy support. When it comes to tech, it gets to a point tech moves on and leaves legacy support in the dust.

It's like having games run on a Windows 7 PC. You buy a new PC with Windows 10, and some reason the game won't play on a Win 10 machine.
If you were told your game would work on Win 10 and it doesn't, then there is an issue.
 

Xplainin

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Who says you have to rebuy digital games on next gen? Unless they are lying, MS said if it works on Xbox One, it will work on SeX.

Discs are different. They never said a disc will work on a digital only system.
This is from Phil Spencer
"This technology empowers you to buy a game once and know that – whether you are playing it on Xbox One or Xbox Series X – you are getting the right version of that game on whatever Xbox you’re playing on," Spencer explains. "We’re making the commitment to use Smart Delivery on all our exclusive Xbox Game Studios titles, including Halo Infinite, ensuring you only have to purchase a title once in order to play the best available version for whichever Xbox console they choose to play on. This technology is available for all developers and publishers, and they can choose to use it for titles that will be released on Xbox One first and come to the Xbox Series X later."
 

Xplainin

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Some people might not care, but this is a issue moving forward. Both companies want to move away from physical media, and no doubt the PS6 generation will be all discless. So it would be ok for people with the digital games bought on PS4 and 5 to have access to them on the PS6, but not the people who bought them on disc?
 
Oct 26, 2018
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This is from Phil Spencer
"This technology empowers you to buy a game once and know that – whether you are playing it on Xbox One or Xbox Series X – you are getting the right version of that game on whatever Xbox you’re playing on," Spencer explains. "We’re making the commitment to use Smart Delivery on all our exclusive Xbox Game Studios titles, including Halo Infinite, ensuring you only have to purchase a title once in order to play the best available version for whichever Xbox console they choose to play on. This technology is available for all developers and publishers, and they can choose to use it for titles that will be released on Xbox One first and come to the Xbox Series X later."
Maybe you'll get access through Cloud streaming. Who knows.

The assumption is a disc version will cost more than a digital, but that might not even be true. We haven't seen prices released. And I think the Xbox S Digital Edition was the same price as the disc version. So it might be the same price anyway.

But even if the disc system costs more, that's the way the world works. You want more features, you pay more.

If you buy a car now, they don't even have CD players anymore. But if you wanted one you'd have to pay to buy one and install it in the dashboard.
 
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Xplainin

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Maybe you'll get access through Cloud streaming. Who knows.

The assumption is a disc version will cost more than a digital, but that might not even be true. We haven't seen prices released. And I think the Xbox S Digital Edition was the same price as the disc version. So it might be the same price anyway.

But even if the disc system costs more, that's the way the world works. You want more features, you pay more.

If you buy a car now, they don't even have CD players anymore. But if you wanted one you'd have to pay to buy one and install it in the dashboard.
With a cd I can turn it into a MP3 and still play it on my discless car stereo.
Thats not whats happening to me with games.
And show me where either company have said that by buying a game on disc, that it it is only valid for consoles with a drive.
My point is there are holes in this changeover from physical to digital, and companies need to make sure they allow people who have bought the game access to it the same wether its digital or physical.
Would it be ok if MS and Sony said you couldn't play your digital games if you buy the console that has a drive on it?
That's exactly what we are dealing with here.
 
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JerryinSoCal

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There should be NO issue, you can still buy a PS4/X1 with a disc drive now and you can but both next gen consoles with disc drives as well, giving people choices is a good thing don't go trying to turn it into something bad.
 

Yoboman

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With a cd I can turn it into a MP3 and still play it on my discless car stereo.
Thats not whats happening to me with games.
And show me where either company have said that by buying a game on disc, that it it is only valid for consoles with a drive.
My point is there are holes in this changeover from physical to digital, and companies need to make sure they allow people who have bought the game access to it the same wether its digital or physical.
Would it be ok if MS and Sony said you couldn't play your digital games if you buy the console that has a drive on it?
That's exactly what we are dealing with here.
They will never do that because people could just trade in all their games and still own the game if the digital copy is just given without any form of validation
 

Xplainin

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There should be NO issue, you can still buy a PS4/X1 with a disc drive now and you can but both next gen consoles with disc drives as well, giving people choices is a good thing don't go trying to turn it into something bad.
Sure, but there is a greater issue moving forward to what all physical games go away.
 

V4skunk

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No one cares about backwards compatibility.
Not even Xbots, it's one of the least used features.
 

AmuroChan

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Sony said most PS4 games will be playable on PS5. They explicitly didn't guarantee the PS5 will be backwards compatible with every PS4 game. So they probably had the foresight that some physical media owners will upgrade to the PS5 DE and therefore not be able to play their PS4 disc games.

Microsoft, on the other hand, was pretty definitive about full BC. So I don't know how they will handle this situation. I guess logically speaking, if you own physical media, why would you think a disc-less console could play those discs?
 

Xplainin

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They will never do that because people could just trade in all their games and still own the game if the digital copy is just given without any form of validation
So because both companies didnt think about this, the person who bought the game shouldn't have access to it on a discless console?
What if as expected Lockhart is discless?
Should I not be allowed to play my hundreds of games on it that I bought on disc?
 

supernova8

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Sony and MS will both offer a discless version of their consoles next gen. PS5 has already announced it, and MS already had one this gen.

So if someone buys the discless version of the PS5 or XSX, and they have a hundred PS4 or XO games on a hard drive, including games on discs, how is Sony or MS going to validate the games to allow people to have access to their full library?

Now I know some will just say, well you have to buy the model with the disc drive, but I'm not sure that will stack up legally, especially in the EU.
If you have bought the game, regardless of if its on disc or digital, you should have the right to play it.
Telling consumers that they are going to have to spend say $100 More on the console to play games already bought is a bit if a cop out.


I can see an issue for both companies down the track with this.
You bought the game, you have been told by Sony and MS that you will be able to play them next gen, but yet if you have bought the disc, then you have to buy the more expensive sku.

Even more so is if Lockhart is only discless then again, MS is really going to have to allow you to play your old games.

They likely won't claim that you can play your disc-based games on the digital versions so, legally, no they won't have promised anything like that.

They are billion dollar companies with well-funded legal teams. I highly doubt they would let something as stupid as this get through the net.

Tell you what, if what you say actually comes to pass (ie the ECJ takes them to court over it whether of their own accord or due to a private citizen doing it) I'll give you a tenner.
 

Yoboman

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So because both companies didnt think about this, the person who bought the game shouldn't have access to it on a discless console?
What if as expected Lockhart is discless?
Should I not be allowed to play my hundreds of games on it that I bought on disc?
Sounds more like you didnt think about this. You've had a decade or more to prepare for a digital transition
 
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Notorious_Roy

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Well, if they're generous they can see your history and give you a download license. Kinda what CD Project Red did with the free Witcher 3 on GOG. I linked my PSN and they saw Witcher 3 there (trophies I guess). That was a disc version and now I have the game digital.

I dont know how they should do games you havent played.
 

Pallas

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Wasn’t Microsoft planning on a way to solve this? I haven’t heard much about it lately but I remember reading about how they had theorized a trade in solution where you trade your physical copy for a digital version.
 

Xplainin

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Wasn’t Microsoft planning on a way to solve this? I haven’t heard much about it lately but I remember reading about how they had theorized a trade in solution where you trade your physical copy for a digital version.
But people collect the physical games. Sony and MS have sold collector editions of some games for well above the game value.
While some dont care, it is an issue moving forward, and one they will want to address.
 

Mirumi

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Apr 4, 2020
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They have addressed this issue, it is called the Disc Version.

It is not to rain on your parade, but you do have a choice; you are just choosing not to. They are not violating anything if you refuse to buy the tool that allows it to work.
 

Xplainin

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They have addressed this issue, it is called the Disc Version.

It is not to rain on your parade, but you do have a choice; you are just choosing not to. They are not violating anything if you refuse to buy the tool that allows it to work.
So show me where MS or Sony has said that buying the physical game will mean they cant play the game in the future is a disc player is no longer offered on a console?
In fact, I have quoted Phil Spencer on Back Compat where he has said buying the game guarantees my ability to play the game on any console I choose to.
 

Mirumi

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The quote you are referencing is in relation to what is known as Smart Delivery, a service that gives you the ability to buy XB1 games and play on XSeries consoles with enhanced features. While you could take it in the context that it is all inclusive, the big issue is they have not announced a release of a Digital only console, so so far this argument is 100% moot.

But for the sake of this thread, let's assume they announce a Digital Only version XSeries. In this situation, you have purchased a medium that is incompatible with that system, a disc, and based off that quote, desire to get the ability to play that disc on the discless system. For one, his statement is still too broad and does not specify physical or digital; no where is it stated that the medium you choose will be available on all systems. amendums can be easily added and legal jargon can be attached to the console to prevent these issues. The other thing is they could just as easily release a stand alone disc attachment to this digital only version.

For two, consoles, games and services unreleased are subject to change. We have seen this before where people tried suing blizzard over the infamous "dance studio" that was supposed to appear in the Wrath of the Lich King expansion. TLDR they were unable to because developments change. No doubt this could easily happen with his words as well, as they could just be taken too far out of context, and perhaps was his way to avoid announcing the Digital Only XSX.
 
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Pallas

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But people collect the physical games. Sony and MS have sold collector editions of some games for well above the game value.
While some dont care, it is an issue moving forward, and one they will want to address.
Obviously and those that collect will always buy the disc version, even if it’s $100 more than an all digital one but we are talking about a very specific group of people and not the general collective.
 

Mistershine.

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Exactly, or have to pay $100 More for a console to have the privilege to play my own games.
So you want to use your physical games but you're too cheap to buy a console with the required hardware?

This sounds more like envy towards digital only consumers because they get to buy a cheaper console than you.
 
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