Professor Beef
Banned
I thought the same thing, enzo :lol
At least you can HIT Metaknight. =Pso more broken than Meta Knight?
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Fighting Games Weekly | Jan 27 - Feb 2 | The Power of Gamers
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
So on a scale of 1 to Kokonoe how broken is that character?
Honestly the S+ designation should only be reserved for a legitimately broken/clear #1 character. Like Akuma/Cammy wouldn't be S+ as they aren't so ahead of the pack and neither is Zero S+ despite being the best. I think S+ is designated for the ST Akuma, Kokonoe or Metaknight.
Osu 16 Bit
Member
MiniBossBattle
Member
CJ looks like a monster now. He really is able to get those errant hits and convert them into kills.
Professor Beef
Banned
I dunno, can people reliably hit Kokonoe?
I don't know who that is.
I think it's because every character in 012, no matter how bad, is viable thanks to all the new shit the game brought to the table compared to the first game, so there doesn't really feel like there's any D or E rankings (at least that's my assumption). Squall, for example, was considered B in the beginning because, while he DESTROYS certain matchups, in general he has a hard time actually landing HP attacks. It's almost like the Vergil situation from early UMvC. Now that the game has been broken down, people are coming around on certain characters.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I want to get into Dissidia *because I play everything* but the whole no real online play sucks
It's a pain in the ass to hit her but she's not actually the hardest character to hit. Kokonoe is basically a 3 in one marvel team BB character. Her and Ultimicia are kinda similar in a lot of ways actually.
Professor Beef
Banned
I want to get into Dissidia *because I play everything* but the whole no real online play sucks
If AdHoc Party ever goes down, then the Dissidia scene pretty much dies TBH
=(
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
They need to do a new VITA version after FF15 comes out and add in FF15/14 characters and actual online play
I needed that. Thanks.
Professor Beef
Banned
Slamtastic
Member
is Sora in Dissidia
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
PS4 version w/ Cross-play and actual online modes
Too good to ever happen
He's a Disney character so no.
That Dude John
Member
One day, I could see "Dissidia: Kingdom Hearts". It will be glorious.
This is one thing I think should change about tier list- what the letters man needs to be consistent from game to game
To me S tier= strongest chars
Ivan Ooze and Igniz are SSS tier
Kokonoe and ST Akuma are SS tier (I'm pretty sure Kokonoe would have ended up banned if no patch was forthcoming)
S+ are the chars that are borderline bannable such as 2k3 Duo Lon or Metaknight
S is your garden variety top tier (AE Akuma) (VF Akira/Jacky)
A is standard but more bad matchups in tourney than an S tier (AE Ryu) (most VF chars)
B is tourney-viable but weaker (AE low-mid tier chars like Abel) (VF Jeffry)
C and below is where characters aren't tourney viable (AE bottom tier chars like Dee Jay)
D tier is gimped joke characters (3s Sean, SC4 Sueng Mina)
Doesn't Kokonoe beat many chars 8-2 or worse, and have no bad matchups? At least ST Akuma had an even matchup with I believe Sim.
No.. Characters like Valk can give her a run for her money.. I don't even think she's the most OP character in BB's history..
since we are competing with each other then who can beat this score i just got for this classic flash game?
http://megami.starcreator.com/nanaca-crash/
http://megami.starcreator.com/nanaca-crash/
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
That's a tie between ct carl/arakune but she's = to them.
In context to the CP cast yes she's Akuma
Black Hole = Air Fireball
Edit: Let me put it this way, Akuma in ST was not UNBEATABLE but just about everything was so much in his favor almost across the board that the game would have evolved into, play Akuma or play a character that stands even a remote chance vs him. Wonder if SF2 would still be played today or remembered as fondly by a lot of people if the whole "deal with it" mentality rocked for him.
Not to mention saying Valk can give her a run for her money is about on par with saying Zero isn't that bad what about Vergil
Agreed.
Shoutouts to TMNT Tournament Fighters! I remember that game being awesome. I haven't played it since probably 1995, I bet it's actually terrible.
Guys, I think he's serious.
since we are competing with each other then who can beat this score i just got for this classic flash game?
http://megami.starcreator.com/nanaca-crash/
Oh god, I haven't been caught up in this game in forever. Here goes my morning...
It's actually pretty interesting going back to it knowing more about fighting games in general. For example, Raphael is Bison. Short, short, scissors all day. Also stuff like using blockstrings to achieve effective meter gain.
Master Milk
Member
I guess when people see always online they immediately think of F2P. I wonder how much that would work against a paid always online fighter.
So basically SF5 vs a new IP by a dev no one's heard of before, gotcha.
Combined with the apparent assumption that always online is the same thing as F2P, then maybe being an established IP would actually work against whatever game did it.
Accessibility is a completely different topic, but ultimately I feel it isn't a problem. A game that is way more inaccessible has 27 million people playing everyday. I feel that people are missing the point whenever they bring up accessibility, just like when they suggest tutorials are needed to bring new people in.
But yea, useful feedback is the foundation for learning, so it could definitely be good for people that want to improve but aren't that analytical.
I don't think justifications are necessary, especially for a feature like always online in today's society. People are too used to it for so many things.
Arcade machines are always online now. At the time what justifications were used? Did they hold weight? Probably not, at least not enough for everything to be stuck in Japan. But they're online anyway, and nothing of value is really lost.
I don't know anything about RTS's and MOBAs, unless Pikmin count as an RTS, but I doubt those genres need to be played online. The benefits effect the extras (stat tracking) and the community of the game (ranking), but they're not actually necessary for the game to work. For fighters it would be mostly the same thing, with the main difference being the history of the genres and people's expectations.
This is the conclusion I came to before I posted my questions. I think in the grand scheme of things, that's fine.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Always online = logistical hassle for tournaments and locals = I'm not interested.
Why do you think the XB1 was booed so hard during the KI demo at EVO last year?
Because they were holding up Marvel.
Master Milk
Member
You're too traditional 6:45, evolve or die!
For tournaments it's a problem you have to solve, but it wouldn't mean the end of tournaments. It would just bring growing pains.
Tried him a bit yesterday: he really has all of the tools one can have.
Teleport + dive kick + slide, all being openers? Okay...
There's no reason I should go to your site and have a giant fucking ad taking up 3/4ths of my screen. If you want me to have ad-block off, be reasonable.
NeoGAF seems to do just fine with ads and allowing us to browse the site instead of having to look at giant ads for shit we don't care about
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Your argument isn't worth a more exhaustive response that isn't already covered by this GIF.
Moreover, I draw a blank when it comes to thinking of benefits offered by your hypothetical game. Why are you even playing devil's advocate?
I do not understand consumers who advocate against their own interests.
Americans give up the few "freedoms" we have because Terrorists are gonna kill us all (even though only .1% of terrorists attacks are against Mercans)
You're surprised that consumers don't think long term about the products they're buying?
Master Milk
Member
lol
Have you not read my posts, or been following the conversation? The only reason I'm even talking about this is because someone else pointed out the benefits of being always online in an article that's been linked and quoted four or five times now.
Please explain to me what interests of mine I'm advocating against.
Kalamari
Member
I told y'all MarkMan was an MS Shill
--
I'd like to see a 'Square' focused Dissidia instead of just FF. Add in some Mana, Musashi, Parasite Eve, hell go the extra mile and put in some Eidos characters (so I can main Wei Shen and Raziel)
Apparently his slide is really unsafe on block?
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
It's like a mix between Markman and Kim Jong Un.
darkblade77
Member
The problem that most fighting games have a pretty large image problem compared to RTSes and MOBAs. They're viewed as complex, insular, and requiring a non-trivial level of practice to really enjoy -- plus when you lose, there really isn't much you can blame for the loss beyond your own lack of ability.
MOBA-style games and RTSes require a pretty straightforward KB/M layout to play, are environments where you can enjoy a modicum of success without trying too hard, and MOBAs in particular diffuse the frustration that comes with losing by having a perpetual scapegoat the player can blame(their teammates). Sure, these games are just as inaccessible at high level play as traditional FGs, or moreso depending on who you ask. But so is, for example, Smash compared to other FGs. Smash does a lot of what these games do and while it has always had the IP strength to ensure some level of success, that founding image is what kept more and more people coming back to the game.
When I'm talking about making a FG accessible, I am talking about doing something that can disrupt the whole 'insular' perception(or at least give the player an idea why s/he would want to commit more and more time to a FG). This is a pretty important thing to consider, especially if you're trying to push such a game outside the traditional audience window.
Master Milk
Member
I agree with this, but I think it's really important to be clear about the difference between fighting games as a genre being inaccessible and the perception of them being inaccessible. They aren't the same thing and only one of them is a problem.
When people talk about fighting games being inaccessible we usually get "solutions" that negatively affect the gameplay.
theprodigy
Member
Ultimecia has a losing matchup, therefore that automatically makes her not broken (that one matchup is even 3-7!)
That's how I use my tier lists too.
Although in some example even in the lower tiers there are characters clearly worse than others which ends up warranting extra tiers although for those rare situations they should be listed as "+" or "-".
So I would rank Frank West as either A- or B+.
I wish more people used a tier list like this.
Instead people use shit like this where Dan is B tier or Justin Wong's where it goes from S to C because he has A+, A, A-, etc.
Archtype:Earth isn't that broken -- she's not even the best character in the game (C-Roa is even more bullshit). Now if you give her the infinite flight glitch back... yeah, that's bullshit.
I think part of the issue is that, at a surface level, fighting games really are less accessible than a MOBA or an RTS. If you're watching pro LoL or SC2 games and see a sequence or combo you want to try, it's not too hard to replicate. Whereas if you see some crazy combo or pressure sequence in a FG, most players would have to spend hours practicing it before even doing it once. Yes, once you get into it MOBAs and RTSs can get rather technical with the amount of micro involved, but at that point they're further than what most people would ever do with a FG.
I don't really have a good answer for this, as if you added easy combo mechanics (like P4A and UNIEL did), you're going to only see the optimized stuff in high-level play. I think you need something there to introduce the mental aspect of the game earlier. The new KI is going for this in a way, but their implementation struck me as being too empty and, for a lack of a better term, stupid.
As an aside, one of my personal annoyances is with challenge modes in FGs having combos that are nigh-on useless most of the time. I think it would be a decent way to drill basic BnBs for people and also illustrate how the mechanics and theory behind them works, but I have yet to see a fighting game actually handle that properly.
Yes, yes, YES. That's why I hate seeing FG developers delineate the mechanics and depth in their games for PR in hopes to rope in the competitive community. If the mechanics and depth exists - the competitive community will find it - and will have more fun in the process. Just shut up about the mechanics and release the damn game.
Only problem with that approach is pre-release balance testing won't be as efficient, but fuck that shit. I agree with Clock, balance is overrated.
Now stop talking about characters and tell us how your game mechanics work, Sakurai lol
theprodigy
Member
*Sakuraiface.jpg*