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[SScorpio]

My bad on 360. I only remembered the name Xenos and forgot about Xenon. Yep. Two separate packages.

You might have been thinking about XCGPU that were part of the die shrink in Vejle and Oban. Those were in the 360 S and E models.

While that did merge the CPU and GPU dies on a single package. Their design was set to simulate the exact same latencies from the two chip design.

APU is a made up term from AMD which has the CPU and GPU existing within the same die. Not just being an SoC on the same package.

https://xenonlibrary.com/wiki/XCGPU

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Geoff is so polite in his answer .

How do people like Tom Warren feel after all these years of being made look like fools?

 

[dgrdsv]

A device that runs PC games is a PC

End of story.

Doom is a PC game and I heard that it runs on a fridge. Does that make this fridge a PC?

On a more serious note - we don't know yet how Helix will run Xbox and PC games. My money is that Xbox games will run in a separate Xbox OS so you'll have to choose whether to boot into Xbox OS or a full fledged Windows. This will be somewhat similar to how PS3 used to support booting into Linux, and by itself this feature does not make the device into "a PC" cause it's a PC+console, a hybrid.

 

[Fabieter]

Doom is a PC game and I heard that it runs on a fridge. Does that make this fridge a PC?

On a more serious note - we don't know yet how Helix will run Xbox and PC games. My money is that Xbox games will run in a separate Xbox OS so you'll have to choose whether to boot into Xbox OS or a full fledged Windows. This will be somewhat similar to how PS3 used to support booting into Linux, and by itself this feature does not make the device into "a PC" cause it's a PC+console, a hybrid.

My guess is they will also release an emulator for Windows for all previous xbox consoles.

 

[DeepEnigma]

My guess is they will also release an emulator for Windows for all previous xbox consoles.

Not gonna happen.

 

[bitbydeath]

Doom is a PC game and I heard that it runs on a fridge. Does that make this fridge a PC?

On a more serious note - we don't know yet how Helix will run Xbox and PC games. My money is that Xbox games will run in a separate Xbox OS so you'll have to choose whether to boot into Xbox OS or a full fledged Windows. This will be somewhat similar to how PS3 used to support booting into Linux, and by itself this feature does not make the device into "a PC" cause it's a PC+console, a hybrid.

We do know that it runs the PC ecosystem, games, apps and eventual blue screens by default, out of the box.

Emulation is another layer, if it were possible otherwise without the added hardware/software elements then all PC's could already do it.

 

[Karim]

 

[Ryseer]

Tom getting a check from MS it seems.

 

[Humdinger]

I define "console" as hardware with a closed ecosystem. Helix does not have a closed ecosystem, ergo Helix is not a console.

What is it? Well, it's a PC with a console form factor and added Xbox BC capability. That is too much of a mouthful to say, so I'll just call it a PC and Tom Warren can get over it.

 

[PatientGamer]

It's a bloody PC that also plays Xbox games. Simples.

Next generation heating up and Microsoft already dropping the ball. You know you're in trouble when your biggest shills don't even know what you're selling.

 

[Bernardougf]

 

[Shogmaster]

You might have been thinking about XCGPU that were part of the die shrink in Vejle and Oban. Those were in the 360 S and E models.

While that did merge the CPU and GPU dies on a single package. Their design was set to simulate the exact same latencies from the two chip design.

APU is a made up term from AMD which has the CPU and GPU existing within the same die. Not just being an SoC on the same package.

https://xenonlibrary.com/wiki/XCGPU

Very true. SoC is also an imperfect term as well. What we are really talking about is actually a SoD (system on die).

 

[Kataploom]

Nutella: We trust her to revive the Xbox brand that we killed

 

[Unknown Soldier]

all the consoles now are pc based devices

Nintendo doesn't exist

 

[nick776]

Uhh....those of us already invested in it silly. I have a better question for you, why would I leave xbox and have to restart my 600+ game library all over?

I guess each person's reasons are highly personal, for me it was because I refuse to get shafted by Microsoft ever again. Fool me once, fool me twice. . . .

 

[Major Insano]

For me, it's determined by the machines main purpose/functions, form factors and inputs.
We still know so little, but if it's main purpose is to play games, form factor is a compact sealed unit with no user upgrading of gpu/boards, main input is a controller/pad? Then it's a console. Plain and simple.
The Steam Machine is a console.
It doesn't really matter what else it can do or how the manufacturer chooses to brand it imo.

 

[Blood Borne]

Ultimately, whether it's technically a PC or a console is irrelevant. What really matters is public perception, because perception becomes reality.

If people see it as an Xbox console that happens to play PC games, then in practice it's a console. If they see it as a PC that happens to run Xbox games, then it will be perceived as a PC.

The architecture, the internal components, and even the operating system are largely inconsequential to most people. What truly defines the device is how the public understands it.

Shaping that perception is ultimately up to Microsoft.

 

[evanft]

Xbox fans hoping helix is anything but a regular PC like their lives and identity depend on it lmao.

I really don't understand it. It's hilarious. We've got a dude out here claiming since it has an APU, it's a console. That requires a downright impressive level of mental gymnastics and ignorance of reality.

 

[Team Andromeda]

It will be a console and like all consoles, everything to get gaming will be in the box all controllers on the UI are able to be done via a Pad,
That's what will make it a console for me.

 

[Stewankenobi]

So let me get this straight...let's say I want to buy COD xy on that machine I will have the choice to purchase it from a Xbox store, Steam, Epic Games etc. What does this mean for setting up the game? A purchase for the Xbox mode gives you limited options...like on a console (performance / quality mode) and if you purchase it over the Windows mode / shops you will have access to all graphic settings like a regular PC? Why would anyone buy EVER for the Xbox mode presets if you can in PC mode tinker it to the Xbox presets or adjust to whatever you prefer in the PC mode...including mods. Isn't then the Xbox mode just an auto preset for making it run stable 30, 60 or 120 fps? Except for having Xbox BC, what is the point of such a device?

 

[evanft]

So let me get this straight...let's say I want to buy COD xy on that machine I will have the choice to purchase it from a Xbox store, Steam, Epic Games etc. What does this mean for setting up the game? A purchase for the Xbox mode gives you limited options...like on a console (performance / quality mode) and if you purchase it over the Windows mode / shops you will have access to all graphic settings like a regular PC? Why would anyone buy EVER for the Xbox mode presets if you can in PC mode tinker it to the Xbox presets or adjust to whatever you prefer in the PC mode...including mods. Isn't then the Xbox mode just an auto preset for making it run stable 30, 60 or 120 fps? Except for having Xbox BC, what is the point of such a device?

I imagine it'll be able to detect that the game is running on Helix and will auto-config using a preset of some kind. Then if you want to you can probably play with the settings like a traditional PC game.

 

[Stewankenobi]

Okay. So I can purchase the same game cheaper on Steam and make it run in Xbox mode with some optimized settings for the Helix Hardware (for example special i/o or decompression hardware). Again...what is the then the point of buying an "Xbox" game?

 

[Tobimacoss]

I imagine it'll be able to detect that the game is running on Helix and will auto-config using a preset of some kind. Then if you want to you can probably play with the settings like a traditional PC game.

Exactly that. That's how it works with the Xbox Ally devices, the GDK Xbox PC SKU can be Handheld Optimized by the devs but that's optional. You can still make changes to settings without relying on the Optimized preset profile. It's just that if a game is optimized, it loads the preset as Default.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Okay. So I can purchase the same game cheaper on Steam and make it run in Xbox mode with some optimized settings for the Helix Hardware (for example special i/o or decompression hardware). Again...what is the then the point of buying an "Xbox" game?

"Xbox games" won't exist anymore, that's the point of this pivot

You will play PC games but you will keep your old Xbox games via backwards compatibility

 

[Tobimacoss]

"Xbox games" won't exist anymore, that's the point of this pivot

You will play PC games but you will keep your old Xbox games via backwards compatibility

Console SKUs won't exist but GDK created Xbox PC games are "Xbox" games. They're simply going from two separate SKUs to one single universal SKU for the Xbox ecosystem.

It's a merger.

 

[evanft]

Okay. So I can purchase the same game cheaper on Steam and make it run in Xbox mode with some optimized settings for the Helix Hardware (for example special i/o or decompression hardware). Again...what is the then the point of buying an "Xbox" game?

There likely won't be one other than the convenience of buying the game through the MS store, which will likely be the easiest way to buy games on Helix. After installing Steam and setting it to big picture mode, though, I don't think it'll have much use.

 

[Bernardougf]

Okay. So I can purchase the same game cheaper on Steam and make it run in Xbox mode with some optimized settings for the Helix Hardware (for example special i/o or decompression hardware). Again...what is the then the point of buying an "Xbox" game?

The only "xbox games" you will be playing in this machine are Xbox series games .... no one will make games exclusively for it because it will run the PC storefront game. So whats the point ... specially since it will be a niche "high end" product with a higher entry price point and a much lower install base compared to previous Xbox.

Maybe Xbox studios can launch special optimized versions of their games but I dont think this will happen either.. MS is clearly trying to move their loyal fanbase to PC based hardware and windows.

 

[Stewankenobi]

The only "xbox games" you will be playing in this machine are Xbox series games .... no one will make games exclusively for it because it will run the PC storefront game. So whats the point ... specially since it will be a niche "high end" product with a higher entry price point and a much lower install base compared to previous Xbox.

Maybe Xbox studios can launch special optimized versions of their games but I dont think this will happen either.. MS is clearly trying to move their loyal fanbase to PC based hardware and windows.

That makes sense, Microsoft using a kind of twin device to keep their gaming customers in their ecosystem...and keeping people from getting too fond of specialised Linux based OS (Steam OS). I do get Microsoft's strategy in this scenario...what I don't understand is the celebration of the Xbox fans. This is nothing but throwing the towel and accepting defeat on multiple fronts. Console market (Sony and Nintendo) and PC storefront (Steam/Valve). Insert Astronauts meme: "Wait...it's just a Windows PC for the living room?" - "Always has been"🫩
And to end a little more dramatic: that is literally the end of Xbox as some people are predicting

 

[Seiryu21]

I really don't understand it. It's hilarious. We've got a dude out here claiming since it has an APU, it's a console. That requires a downright impressive level of mental gymnastics and ignorance of reality.

If this thing does exactly what they're hoping it does, they will be basically buying a new device with the USP of emulating old Xbox games. Even though their current console can already do that.

I don't understand the excitement at all or the pathological need to compare it to PlayStation directly.

 

[MisterXDTV]

If this thing does exactly what they're hoping it does, they will be basically buying a new device with the USP of emulating old Xbox games. Even though their current console can already do that.

I don't understand the excitement at all or the pathological need to compare it to PlayStation directly.

Exactly, they are excited about an expensive PC that emulates consoles that they can emulate today by just keeping the current Xbox hardware... LOL

It's hilarious

 

[damidu]

Ultimately, whether it's technically a PC or a console is irrelevant. What really matters is public perception, because perception becomes reality.

If people see it as an Xbox console that happens to play PC games, then in practice it's a console. If they see it as a PC that happens to run Xbox games, then it will be perceived as a PC.

The architecture, the internal components, and even the operating system are largely inconsequential to most people. What truly defines the device is how the public understands it.

Shaping that perception is ultimately up to Microsoft.

the tech savy already seeing through their bs and public won't think of it as a console with that pc price tag.

ms or their career shills can't do shit about it.

 

[Sooner]

Hey, Tom. It's a Steam Machine with an Xbox sticker.

 

[Jaybe]

The one good thing from this Helix attempt is hopefully it makes Valve launch Steam Machine in as competitive state as possible

 

[Bernardougf]

That makes sense, Microsoft using a kind of twin device to keep their gaming customers in their ecosystem...and keeping people from getting too fond of specialised Linux based OS (Steam OS). I do get Microsoft's strategy in this scenario...what I don't understand is the celebration of the Xbox fans. This is nothing but throwing the towel and accepting defeat on multiple fronts. Console market (Sony and Nintendo) and PC storefront (Steam/Valve). Insert Astronauts meme: "Wait...it's just a Windows PC for the living room?" - "Always has been"🫩
And to end a little more dramatic: that is literally the end of Xbox as some people are predicting

Well thats why a lot of superfans are coping and trying at all costs to pretend this is a true xbox console ... exclusives are bad and dosent matter , all consoles are PC since the atari, Etc.... the usual bullshit.... long time concepts changes very fast when is convenient.

 

[reinking]

Here is where I am at for now.... (not that anyone cares )

Anyone viewing this as a console is doing so through enthusiast glasses. Mass market console gamers are not going to be interested in overspending for a console that does PC things. That being said, I am interested in it as an alternative to a Windows PC if MS does it right. This includes competitive pricing. I know the rumors are $1200+ and that sounds promising for my needs but if they can get it closer to that $1000 price range, I think it has potential to disrupt the lower end PC market and force Valve's hand with the Steam Machine.

TLDR: IMO, The PC based Xbox definition has more potential to disrupt the lower end PC market than the Xbox console definition does to disrupt the console market.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Hey, Tom. It's a Steam Machine with an Xbox sticker.

You know what would be funny? The Bazzite or CachyOS devs are able to get their respective distros optimized for Helix close to launch.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Doom is a PC game and I heard that it runs on a fridge. Does that make this fridge a PC?

On a more serious note - we don't know yet how Helix will run Xbox and PC games. My money is that Xbox games will run in a separate Xbox OS so you'll have to choose whether to boot into Xbox OS or a full fledged Windows. This will be somewhat similar to how PS3 used to support booting into Linux, and by itself this feature does not make the device into "a PC" cause it's a PC+console, a hybrid.

Phil Spencer beat you to it!

 

[Sooner]

Doom is a PC game and I heard that it runs on a fridge. Does that make this fridge a PC?

On a more serious note - we don't know yet how Helix will run Xbox and PC games. My money is that Xbox games will run in a separate Xbox OS so you'll have to choose whether to boot into Xbox OS or a full fledged Windows. This will be somewhat similar to how PS3 used to support booting into Linux, and by itself this feature does not make the device into "a PC" cause it's a PC+console, a hybrid.

So, will Steam be the default shop on this device? (Yes) If you think the only way to get Steam would be to boot the device in a special desktop mode, you're crazy.

It's not an Xbox console. It's a pre-built gaming PC with features purposefully limited or stripped when compared to a traditional desktop PC. The default store to buy and play games isn't even owned or managed by Microsoft.

Face it. This is a Steam Machine, no different than if it was manufactured by HP, Dell, etc.

It's no more an Xbox than the "Xbox" ROG Ally hardly anyone remembers even existing now.