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[Bojji]

These games aren’t cpu limited at all

There’s no reason to bump the cpu for a mid gen refresh where the base console is the target hardware …

With that rt upgrade developers would maybe like to enable ray tracing in games that don't have it on standard model and then their games can potentially become CPU limited, offering worse performance than base model.

Almost no CPU upgrade is potentially quite stupid decision.

How's the cpu crap?

It's not crap but is below Ryzen 3600 in power so below what some games require to run with good performance with ray tracing on.

 

[Self_Destructive]

This guy was crying about his master pc being so much better and cheaper than consoles and in the same breath is saying a pro console makes development much more complicated. Get real dude, PC is orders of magnitude more complex than a single pro console lmao

Listen to yourself man.. lmfao.

PCs were always complex and open.

Consoles used to be SIMPLE. You bought one, you got the experience you were meant to get over the course of a generation. Now... they're more complicated and more PC-like than ever.
-Multiple console SKUs (Reg, Slim, Pro)
-Multiple modes in games (Performance, Quality, High Framerate, Ray Tracing, 120hz, HDR, VRR, 40fps, 120fps..ect)
-Swapping in and out SSD storage lmao
-Devs having to develop for multiple power profiles, skus, along with all these different modes in games...

Consoles were a simple target for developers... they're growing increasingly complex.. You bitching about PC development doesn't change the fact that the CONSOLE SIDE is getting more complex for devs and gamers.

Not to mention... PS and Xbox studios... are also developing their games for PC...

 

[Fafalada]

I trust Sony to be competent out of the gate but I'm purposefully being a bit more pessimistic simply not to get my hopes up too much. Rather go with the minimum than the maximum.

That's totally fair. The fact that they're specifically looking at spectral analysis as part of this suggests they're taking it seriously though - so at least we can expect it's not gonna be half-assessed, whatever the outcome.

same amount of ram and cpu with almost same clocks ? gpu looks promising but this is letdown, looks like 549$ console now

As opposed to last gen Pro/X that did exactly the same thing but with a far more problematic CPU?
I mean we're literally in the least CPU limited generation of consoles - ever, and the margin isn't even close to the 'next best'.

I wonder what this means?
Is it more cache? RDNA3 does have bigger L2 and instructions caches.
Or could it be a better delta color compression for RDNA4?
Or maybe some Infinity cache?

The phrasing of 'memory subsystem' would not be referring to data compression extensions.
Cache hierarchy 'could' be a part of it - but impossible to tell from just one phrase (also without having some ballpark guidance about 'how much' different the efficiency is).

 

[MisterXDTV]

This thread is really schizophrenic, from time to time you go from:

- Pro console is not needed (so don't buy it!!!! )
- Pro console is too weak (so don't buy it!!!)
- BUT.... PC...... (So play on your damn PC!!!)

I mean it's really a joke at this point...

Reality is halfway....

Sony obviously thinks a PS5 Pro console has a market BUT NOT if they release an $800/$900 console that nobody would buy.....

It's not rocket science.....

 

[jm89]

Sony obviously thinks a PS5 Pro console has a market BUT not if they release an $800/$900 console that nobody would buy.....

If they released a $800/$900 console that satisfied people, we would never hear the end of it.

"It's too expensive for a console oof"

"Get a PC if your gonna spend that much"

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

First of all, will this really outclass a monster rig from 2020-2021? I doubt it.

It’s going to have 4070 level performance, so yes, 3090 was the top gpu in 2020.

 

[Gaiff]

It’s going to have 4070 level performance, so yes, 3090 was the top gpu in 2020.

The 3090 is faster than the 4070.

 

[Ashamam]

Almost no CPU upgrade is potentially quite stupid decision.

I kind of feel like people are missing the point of the Pro model. Its not a generational upgrade, its fundamentally still a PS5. Devs still need to target the PS5 primarily. The Pro is designed to fix the GPU bottleneck. The 10% CPU overclock is likely just to prevent a complete imbalance towards the GPU. You can lay good money on them running all sorts of scenarios and tests to find the sweet spot between the various systems vs cost etc. It won't be perfect and some games will really feel the CPU bottleneck resulting in disappointing results, but conversely some games will overperform. If they have done their job right then most games should just fall in a presentable 4K60 sweet spot leaning on PSSR from a 1080p internal. Assuming the 1080p internal does provide a credible 4K image.

 

[Leonidas]

It’s going to have 4070 level performance, so yes, 3090 was the top gpu in 2020.

4070 is 3080 performance. PS5 Pro will likely fall a bit behind the 4070.

 

[Bojji]

It’s going to have 4070 level performance, so yes, 3090 was the top gpu in 2020.

4070 is around the power of 3080 in 1080p and 1440p (can be much weaker in 4k).

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

4070 is 3080 performance. PS5 Pro will likely fall a bit behind the 4070.

3080 was a high end gpu in 2020, was my point. Still a “monster rig”. PS5 pro is pretty close to that when considering the closed environment optimizations

 

[Leonidas]

3080 was a high end gpu in 2020, was my point. PS5 pro is pretty close to that when considering the closed environment optimizations

Maybe, but it will still fall short in many scenarios.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Maybe, but it will still fall short in many scenarios.

Such as?

 

[shamoomoo]

People talking about CPU bottlenecks, I’m here frickin worrying about the memory bandwidth.

Why? The PS4 Pro already had DCC to mitigate the low bandwidth and I'm almost certain the Pro has cache scrubbers like the base PS5.

 

[Bojji]

I kind of feel like people are missing the point of the Pro model. Its not a generational upgrade, its fundamentally still a PS5. Devs still need to target the PS5 primarily. The Pro is designed to fix the GPU bottleneck. The 10% CPU overclock is likely just to prevent a complete imbalance towards the GPU. You can lay good money on them running all sorts of scenarios and tests to find the sweet spot between the various systems vs cost etc. It won't be perfect and some games will really feel the CPU bottleneck resulting in disappointing results, but conversely some games will overperform. If they have done their job right then most games should just fall in a presentable 4K60 sweet spot leaning on PSSR from a 1080p internal. Assuming the 1080p internal does provide a credible 4K image.

Without ray tracing in play I would completely agree with you, CPU target should be PS5 and pro would just deliver much better image quality and better performance in GPU limited places.

But ray tracing increases CPU load so we can have scenarios where PS5 version is 60fps without ray tracing and pro version can drop below that because developers added rt and it hammers cpu much more.

At least that's how rt works right now, maybe they figured out how to lower CPU load with some dedicated hardware.

 

[twilo99]

RDNA4 tech paired with ZEN2 … why??

 

[Fafalada]

I think if they mentioned a miserable 10% clock increase, they would have mentioned more cache.

No they wouldn't(nor they ever did) - not in the high level overview that this leak is from.
PS4 Pro had a long laundry list of changes to its memory subsystem and more that were never listed out in a neat fan-made comparison check-list (and hence most of internet remains blissfully unaware too).
Same applies here.

Plus Sony can determine whatever they want, we can see the reality in everyday games. When we have devs like Warner Bros who ship games like Gotham Knights with only a 30fps mode because they're too incompetent to use multithreading, you need a fast CPU.

We have 3 years of almost every release having either a 60hz mode, running primarily at 60, and/or offering 120hz modes. At this stage in 360 generation most games already ran at 25fps - that's what you can call 'CPU limited'.

 

[Frwrd]

PSSR

 

[twilo99]

If they released a $800/$900 console that satisfied people, we would never hear the end of it.

"It's too expensive for a console oof"

"Get a PC if your gonna spend that much"

RDNA4 / Zen5 in combo for $799ish would be a very appealing package in 2024

 

[PUNKem733]

Without ray tracing in play I would completely agree with you, CPU target should be PS5 and pro would just deliver much better image quality and better performance in GPU limited places.

But ray tracing increases CPU load so we can have scenarios where PS5 version is 60fps without ray tracing and pro version can drop below that because developers added rt and it hammers cpu much more.

At least that's how rt works right now, maybe they figured out how to lower CPU load with some dedicated hardware.

But isn't their ML/RT hardware in the pro? Wouldn't that off load a lot of work from the CPU for other tasks?

 

[twilo99]

 

[bitbydeath]

Such as?

3080 has less VRAM.

 

[MisterXDTV]

RDNA4 / Zen5 in combo for $799ish would be a very appealing package in 2024

For how many people???

OK they still have the base model, but you don't make that kind of investiment on producing a new console if the sales numbers are like Steam Deck....

$800 starting price would be $400 more than the original PS5 Digital!!!!

PS4 Pro launched for $400 with the disc drive included!

 

[twilo99]

I dunno this sounds like a solid fidelity bump but will certainly not eradicate 30FPS gaming

 

[Ashamam]

I dunno this sounds like a solid fidelity bump but will certainly not eradicate 30FPS gaming

No but it should guarantee a decent performance mode at least.

 

[Audiophile]

Gut's saying this is N6 and was meant to launch next to the Slim last year, with interchangeable optional drives and priced a little higher. Probably looks almost identical to the slim plus some minor embellishments, either with a slightly wider chassis or taller top 'half'; or a beefier cooling system. Perhaps they temporarily marked up the Slim a bit more than they otherwise would have in the meantime.

Likely had issues or decided a slightly cheaper box at a later date with more mass-market appeal was better. Maybe they saw this as a 7yr gen initially but are now planning an 8yr gen and wanted to break up the midpoint more.

 

[Fake]

Bit dissapointed with the CPU, but again AI will be the star of this console.

Everything is on Sony hands about how their solution will fix those trash image quality devs put into their games.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I dunno this sounds like a solid fidelity bump but will certainly not eradicate 30FPS gaming

Which 30fps only games are there?

 

[twilo99]

For how many people???

OK they still have the base model, but you don't make that kind of investiment on producing a new console if the sales numbers are like Steam Deck....

$800 starting price would be $400 more than the original PS5 Digital!!!!

PS4 Pro launched for $400 with the disc drive included!

We really don’t know for how many people since neither Microsoft nor Sony have tried to give us current hardware in a more expensive package..

I suspect there might be a healthy appetite for such a box..

 

[MisterXDTV]

Gut's saying this is N6 and was meant to launch next to the Slim last year, with interchangeable optional drives and priced a little higher.

I doubt you would have gotten RDNA 4 Ray Tracing and PSSR if you turned back the clock by a year.

Obviously they had to wait for AMD to be ready

 

[Ashamam]

Gut's saying this is N6 and was meant to launch next to the Slim last year,

Doubt it. Makes sense to me to do the hardware launches sequentially. Both from a marketing point of view, gives them something to talk about each year and from a manufacturing point of view. Logistically would be simpler. Bed down the slim, then follow with the Pro knowing how the drive split is going and being able to factor that into the Pro launch.

 

[MisterXDTV]

We really don’t know for how many people since neither Microsoft nor Sony have tried to give us current hardware in a more expensive package..

I suspect there might be a healthy appetite for such a box..

Maybe Sony has better data than we have... That's all I'm saying...

 

[DeadOblivion78]

Feels like PS5 specs reveal all over again with people not understanding what any of it means but acting like they do.

Time is a flat fucking circle and I want off this stupid ride.

 

[twilo99]

No but it should guarantee a decent performance mode at least.

Hopefully that bump in CPU clock speed is enough but seems marginal..

 

[twilo99]

Maybe Sony has better data than we have... That's all I'm saying...

They certainly do

 

[DeadOblivion78]

They certainly do

We have people in this thread thinking they're smarter than Cerny.

 

[bender]

 

[Ashamam]

But ray tracing increases CPU load so we can have scenarios where PS5 version is 60fps without ray tracing and pro version can drop below that because developers added rt and it hammers cpu much more.

When you look at the Sony RT patent there is zero mention of CPU. Its all about doing the existing tasks more efficiently with dedicated hardware. I take from that the intention is to free up GPU resources for other use, eg render more pixels, than it is to push much better RT. So basically don't incentivise better RT vs the PS5, but do incentivise higher framerates and resolution. Which makes sense because that has the least burden on developers.

 

[Fake]

it will have a detachable disc drive which will be identical to the latest iteration of the standard PlayStation 5, and 1TB of storage space.

Nice.

 

[Bojji]

But isn't their ML/RT hardware in the pro? Wouldn't that off load a lot of work from the CPU for other tasks?

So far ML in is only used for image reconstruction in dlss and xess, other use cases might appear when pro will be on the market.

RT hardware doesn't mean they don't have to add a lot of new cpu calculations when rt is enabled. Avatar devs experimented with different ways of doing rt stuff so maybe it work well enough even without cpu upgrade.

Which 30fps only games are there?

Plague tale was 30fps for a long time, what they did with performance patch suggest that CPU was limiting them before

Gotham knights is CPU limited as fuck and still 30fps

Same story with starfield

Dragons dogma is ~30fps

In most cases CPU is causing this so 30fps games won't become 60fps when there is almost no CPU upgrade in pro.

GTA 6 will more than likely be CPU limited with massive open world and constant ray tracing, possibility for performance mode is slim.

 

[Jigsaah]

What is your rig?

4090 and 5800x, 32 gigs of RAM running at 3600 speed, though it's max is 4000. Looking to upgrade RAM CPU and Mobo soon...maybe before PS5 Pro...depends if a can find a good deal.

 

[Jigsaah]

So it's 33? Why does is say 67 under that in the OP post. I must not understand how to calculate this. Looking it up. I asked Chat GPT to calculate my system and welll...maybe it was wrong?

This is what it came back with

The NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 is a powerful enthusiast-class graphics card launched on September 20th, 2022. Let’s dive into its specifications:

• Architecture: It’s based on the Ada Lovelace architecture and built on the 5 nm process.
• Graphics Processor: The RTX 4090 uses the AD102 graphics processor in its AD102-300-A1 variant.
• Performance:
  • Shading Units: It features 16,384 shading units, which contribute to its computational power.
  • Tensor Cores: The card includes 512 tensor cores that enhance machine learning applications.
  • Raytracing Acceleration Cores: It also has 128 raytracing acceleration cores for realistic lighting and reflections.
  • Memory: Paired with 24 GB GDDR6X memory connected via a 384-bit memory interface.
  • Clock Speeds: The GPU operates at a base frequency of 2235 MHz, boostable up to 2520 MHz, while memory runs at 1313 MHz (21 Gbps effective).
  • Theoretical Performance: At 1920x1080 and 4K resolutions, the RTX 4090 delivers 82.58 TFLOPS

 

[twilo99]

We have people in this thread thinking they're smarter than Cerny.

I don’t think Cerny does market research

 

[paolo11]

Nice.

Where did you read this detachable disc drive?

 

[MisterXDTV]

The worries about the CPU are legit and all, but Cerny is perfectly aware of the importance of "Performance mode" this gen since Day 1 in 2020

I CAN'T and I DON'T believe he was thinking about the PS5 Pro in his office and went:

"Screw it! I'm pushing graphics and we are going back to 30 FPS for good!"

I mean it's completely crazy to think about it

 

[MisterXDTV]

Where did you read this detachable disc drive?

It's in the Henderson article

"It’s also understood that as a means to make the PlayStation 5 Pro as “competitive” (not my phrasing here) as possible, it will have a detachable disc drive which will be identical to the latest iteration of the standard PlayStation 5, and 1TB of storage space."

 

[Fake]

Where did you read this detachable disc drive?

Insider Gaming updated the same article with this new info.
Is looking like will be only one SKU.

Go to the first page.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I have tried telling people for awhile they were going to be let down when they see the specs on paper but wait until they see how it runs the games.

Expected bit more of a frequency boost but not more cache, which would have been a bigger redesign on a component, the CPU, that was nowhere near the focus on this Pro console. CPU differences with the base console being harder to scale than they wanted I guess too.
The power consumption envelope of the chip and the cooling solution available (if they keep the same console shell and do not want a super expensive cooling solution just for the Pro, they are limited) are a big constraint the GPU and memory got the largest allowances on even with a newer more advanced manufacturing process (doubtful this is N5 let alone N4 or N3).

Still 10% CPU boost for a 1.5% frequency decrease of the GPU is not horrible and GPU and memory bandwidth improvements are really nice.

 

[Leonidas]

Such as?

There's going to be plenty of examples of games where PS5 Pro shows no improvement over the base PS5, because in some games the base PS5 is already hitting a console FPS/resolution cap that has been put in place for the console version of the game.

A lot of PS5 games have a 60 FPS cap.

Some of these games may be patched, but most will not be, as its not worth it for 3P devs to go back and update games for a device that will go on to sell probably less than 15M units.

The highest FPS possible on PS5 is only 120 FPS. If you take a look at the 120 FPS games on PS5, they can run much higher than that on a 3080 if you turn the GFX down to match PS5 120 FPS mode settings. These games will also still run better on the 3080 compared to PS5 Pro, since PS5 Pro will most likely still be capped at 120 FPS.

 

[Fafalada]

Plague tale was 30fps for a long time, what they did with performance patch suggest that CPU was limiting them before
Gotham knights is CPU limited as fuck and still 30fps
Same story with starfield
Dragons dogma is ~30fps

Ok - so - 3.5 games out of like... 850...

So using your words...

In 0.5% of cases CPU is causing this so 30fps

Sounds like a real big problem right there yes.

I will add one thing here - the typical CPU bottlenecks in the kind of games R* produces, usually have nothing to do with RT or rendering to begin with.
Even dating back to PS2 era - GTA games were sub 30fps because of everything BUT putting pixels on screen.
And really - RT as a CPU problem? BVH updating 'better' get more efficient - not throw more hw at it. We've been stuck with the same limited interactivity in games for over 2 decades now and all people can think about when given more CPU power is - oh yea, let's use it to render even more static worlds, that's what's needed!