Support NeoGAF

[Goalus]

That's what you get for exclusivity.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

The thing is, Square is seemingly aware of FF's decline and budgeting accordingly. I mean, Rebirth was developed in 3 years, which is very short for a AAA titlw.

Square said they raised the budget with Rebirth.

That's what you get for exclusivity.

Sony's money is why Part 1 got made... and presumably Square also got something for Part 2.

 

[Kokoloko85]

The issue is not whether it was good- I have no doubt it is good- but whether making it was an intelligent business decision- of which I have many doubts.

We’ll find out soon how much it sold worldwide And it will sell for awhile afterwards too.
FF7Remake sold close to 9 million copies by September 2023, probably made enough for the game and the sequel

 

[Kokoloko85]

That's what you get for exclusivity.

Which Platform in Japan would make it sell more retail physical copies?

 

[Woopah]

Which Platform in Japan would make it sell more retail physical copies?

The only answer that's fully viable is PS4.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Which Platform in Japan would make it sell more retail physical copies?

Switch 2

 

[Scotty W]

Sure, but this couldn't run on Switch without massive reductions everywhere.

I honestly wouldn’t mind the graphical reductions. Most of the gaming market doesn’t really “get” visuals the way that gaffers do. For reference, I had a great time with Doom Eternal on the Switch Lite, and while I know it doesn’t look as good, it is at such a high level that I don’t care.

 

[Fake]

Japan's public might have lost good taste in games, but thankfully weebs worldwide picked up the slack, so they're still more successful than ever.

I don't think Japan lost good taste. In fact, is not because the news are not good for you that means Japan lost any interess in good games.

Nintendo is selling like no end in Japan. If I would guess, looks like Sony lost interess in japanese market, so Japan is just returning the favor.

A game being good or not doesn't matter if the company don't give a shit about Japan.

 

[zedinen]

PlayStation 5 is irrelevant in Japan and likely active PC user-base now is bigger than the active PS5 audience in the country.

PS5 is trending 12% above the PS3

The japanese market is dominated by F2P and digital: Famitsu is useless and Genshin is the system seller.

 

[Kokoloko85]

Switch 2

Where can I buy it lol

 

[Kokoloko85]

The only answer that's fully viable is PS4.

TBH we need to move on from last gen, its been almost 4 years.
Maybe a downscaled version now that the team has made there vision

 

[Neofire]

Monster Hunter is at least coming to PC, and I do think the franchise will be on Switch 2 in some form.

That's not a good metric to use, otherwise we would say every country isn't interested in non portable games.

Some non-portable games have done pretty well in Japan.

Final Fantasy has done noticeably more on smaller userbases.

This generation and it being Finalfantasy7? No it hasn't

 

[Nickolaidas]

When should we be expecting global sales - including digital?

 

[Woopah]

TBH we need to move on from last gen, its been almost 4 years.
Maybe a downscaled version now that the team has made there vision

For cross gen games, the PS4 versions are still noticeably increasing the number of sales in Japan.

This generation and it being Finalfantasy7? No it hasn't

That was my point, Final Fantasy sold more on smaller userbases in previous generations compared to this one. So userbase cant be the main reason for Rebirth's sales.

 

[Celine]

The sad part is that people is getting used to the lowered expectation around the Final Fantasy brand.
With each generation the bar keeps getting lowered so if 25 years ago a mainline FF games breaking 3 million units in Japan was seen as the norm, nowadays the franchise can't even reach the 1 million barrier.
Making comparison with recent FF games, which themselves have severely contracted from FF games before, only serves to further drive the point of how ruinous FF fall of grace was in the last two decades.

The constant decline isn't caused just by the console userbase size of the platform(s) on which Square decide to develop the mainline FF games for.
The core issue is what Square is offering with FF isn't as enticing for the japanese consumers as in the past (meanwhile production costs keeps ballooning).

As a counterpoint Pokemon Scarlet/Violet is close to finally dethrone Pokemon Red/Green as the best selling RPG of all time in Japan, record which held for decades (the original Pokemon came out in February 1996).

 

[ArtHands]

The sad part is that people is getting used to the lowered expectation around the Final Fantasy brand.
With each generation the bar keeps getting lowered so if 25 years ago a mainline FF games breaking 3 million units in Japan was seen as the norm, nowadays the franchise can't even reach the 1 million barrier.
Making comparison with recent FF games, which themselves have severely contracted from FF games before, only serves to further drive the point of how ruinous FF fall of grace was in the last two decades.

The constant decline isn't caused just by the console userbase size of the platform(s) on which Square decide to develop the mainline FF games for.
The core issue is what Square is offering with FF isn't as enticing for the japanese consumers as in the past (meanwhile production costs keeps ballooning).

As a counterpoint Pokemon Scarlet/Violet is close to finally dethrone Pokemon Red/Green as the best selling RPG of all time in Japan, record which held for decades (the original Pokemon came out in February 1996).

Thing is platform of choice for Japanese players are PC and Nintendo Switch right now. Most of them are unlikely to spend money on a dedicated machine to play FF7 Rebirth. Especially when it is likely coming to PC too.

 

[CityHunter1981]

Video games are on a decline. Many businesses here in Japan have switched back to 5 days a week attendance. With the long commute times (2 hours one way is very common), there is just not much time left to play games.
I am in the lucky situation that the company I work at keep the mostly remote work conditions, but that is not the norm.

Also considering the reviews, I am sure that Rebirth will catch up and surpass XVI over time.

At the end the worldwide numbers are what counts, as Japan will never be a big console markets due to the long commuting times and globally it will be a big hit.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Video games are on a decline. Many businesses here in Japan have switched back to 5 days a week attendance. With the long commute times (2 hours one way is very common), there is just not much time left to play games.
I am in the lucky situation that the company I work at keep the mostly remote work conditions, but that is not the norm.

Also considering the reviews, I am sure that Rebirth will catch up and surpass XVI over time.

At the end the worldwide numbers are what counts, as Japan will never be a big console markets due to the long commuting times and globally it will be a big hit.

Damn, I simply cannot fathom a regular commute that I partake in 5 days a week of 2 hours one way. Holy hell.

 

[Serge85]

I know PS5 being unpopular in Japan plays a part in this, but I really do think we're underestimating how much potential damage they did by pulling the rug out from under people in Remake, by revealing this isn't actually a remake of FFVII. Love it or not, that did turn a lot of people off.

So far we're seeing a 440k difference between Remake and Rebirth in Japan. Ok the PS5 is less popular than PS4, but seriously, where the fuck did those 440k people go? Are they ALL people who just don't own a PS5? Because I believe if Remake landed with you, and you had a great time with it, you'd be making sure you'd have a PS5 to play the next part.

The not a remake thing, turned me off. I won't buy rebirth.

 

[CityHunter1981]

Damn, I simply cannot fathom a regular commute that I partake in 5 days a week of 2 hours one way. Holy hell.

I did it for some time before I found work closer to home and which also allows for you to only come one or twice to work.

At that time I played a lot of switch in the train and this is one factor why switch and mobile gaming is so huge in Japan.

 

[Shut0wen]

Finally my fantasy of this series dying is almost becoming real, long live dragon quest and not this cringe poor mans jrpg series

 

[ArtHands]

Final Fantasy VII Rebirth Sales Show A Worrisome Trend For Future of Franchise In Japan

The recent sales figures for Final Fantasy VII Rebirth in Japan show a worrisome trend for the franchise's future.

twistedvoxel.com

The reasons behind this downfall likely has to do with changing trends in the Japanese game market, the lack of availability of new Final Fantasy titles on other popular platforms such as the Nintendo Switch, and the declining interest in PlayStation hardware in Japan. Positive word of mouth may turn things around for sales of Final Fantasy VII Rebirth in the weeks to come, but early signs from Japan aren’t promising.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Finally my fantasy of this series dying is almost becoming real, long live dragon quest and not this cringe poor mans jrpg series

Cloud, we truly are the final fantasy.

 

[Celine]

Mainline Final Fantasy games started declining after the peak on PS1.
The real problem isn't matching the historical peak, it's that the decline was constant through time without any meanigful reversing of the trend.
Just check FFVII (PS1) -> FFX (PS2) -> FFXIII (PS3) -> FFXV (PS4) -> FFXVI (PS5) , it's a constant shrinkage of the sales even when factoring a generous digital ratio for the more recent entries.
Final Fantasy is hemoragging japanese buyers generation after generation to the point the franchise stopped being an assured million seller in Japan.

 

[mckmas8808]

They spent way too much money on it, it took way too long. The profit margin is probably infinitesimal. The risk is too great for such a reward. And now they are caught in a trap of producing increasingly expensive sequels for increasingly small returns.

They could have reduced the risk substantially if they had not released all those trash FF7 stories which cheapened the mystique of 7. No one walks away from that 7 movie liking Cloud more.

The story is 90’s gnostic fart huffing jank. We didn’t realize it in the 90’s, because it was text and we were young, but to quote Harrison Ford, “You can write this shit George, but you sure as hell can’t say it.”

But there cheaper produced games sell waaaay less than their FF games. So I don't think just making cheaper produced games is the answer.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

But there cheaper produced games sell waaaay less than their FF games. So I don't think just making cheaper produced games is the answer.

They need to man up and crack pc/ xbox market.

No other way around for SE.

Cannot forever play in shadow of Sony, where they will do the marketing and help them grow the franchise.

 

[Nickolaidas]

If you're a third party publisher and want to hit big numbers, you multiplatform. That's it.

 

[drganon]

They need to man up and crack pc/ xbox market.

No other way around for SE.

Cannot forever play in shadow of Sony, where they will do the marketing and help them grow the franchise.

They're already on PC and the five copies they'd sell on Xbox wouldn't make a difference.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

They're already on PC and the five copies they'd sell on Xbox wouldn't make a difference.

They have some presence on PC. But players dont anticipate release of new Final Fantasy. They need to change that. In other words, they need to crack the market.

As for Xbox, if you get that market, some 15-20% sales will come from it. Its upto them if its enough. But when nobody knows your game on system or are not to their taste, then yeah, you will sell 5 copies.

 

[rofif]

Well that much is obvious. It's still a remake of a beloved classic title with a familiar setting and cast, in addition to being a direct sequel to FFVII Remake. Compared to the clean slate that was FFXVI.

I don’t think that matters.
Original was almost 30 years ago and rebirth is accessible to new players.

Witcher 3 exploded the franchise selling way way way more than previous 2 games combined

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Witcher 3 exploded the franchise selling way way way more than previous 2 games combined

A Witcher 3 like game is way too easy for Square Enix to produce. They just need to cut the crap, go ham on music, art style and a varied map.

No idea why they are making it harder than it needs to be.

 

[TheTony316]

Switch 2

Where can i buy it?

 

[TheTony316]

They need to man up and crack pc/ xbox market.

No other way around for SE.

Cannot forever play in shadow of Sony, where they will do the marketing and help them grow the franchise.

They're already on PC and they tried with Xbox in the past.

 

[Vblad88]

Shenmue 3 says “Halo!”.

It is a good thing that nostalgia train is finally going to derail. Industry have to move on beyond endless remakes.

 

[rofif]

A Witcher 3 like game is way too easy for Square Enix to produce. They just need to cut the crap, go ham on music, art style and a varied map.

No idea why they are making it harder than it needs to be.

rebirth is better than witcher 3 tho.
witcher 3 is a slog

 

[vaibhavpisal]

rebirth is better than witcher 3 tho.
witcher 3 is a slog

Agree about Witcher 3.

But a lot of people enjoy it, I think SE can outdo them in areas that matter for a game like that.

If Rebirth is too niche for expanding their market.

 

[Goalus]

Which Platform in Japan would make it sell more retail physical copies?

Xbox Series.
Its userbase is now comfortably larger than OG Xbox and XB1, so I would expect numbers similar to Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey.

 

[Lambogenie]

If you're a third party publisher and want to hit big numbers, you multiplatform. That's it.

Pokemon though.

 

[Nickolaidas]

Pokemon though.

Let's call it one the few rare exceptions. XD

 

[IDKFA]

Japanese appear to have taste.

I've yet to play FFXVI yet, but IMO FFXV is the greatest mainline FF game and one of the greatest RPS ever made. The FF series also gets better with every mainline entry, so I'm sure XVI is better than XV.

I was going to buy it this Easter holiday as a treat. I'm tempted to buy it now after this news.

 

[rofif]

Japanese appear to have taste.

I've yet to play FFXVI yet, but IMO FFXV is the greatest mainline FF game and one of the greatest RPS ever made. The FF series also gets better with every mainline entry, so I'm sure XVI is better than XV.

I was going to buy it this Easter holiday as a treat. I'm tempted to buy it now after this news.

XV is so good. It is underrated and it has to grow on you but once it does, it's magical

 

[mortal]

I don’t think that matters.
Original was almost 30 years ago and rebirth is accessible to new players.

Witcher 3 exploded the franchise selling way way way more than previous 2 games combined

Huh? How are going to tell me what reason matters for why I was more excited
Witcher 3 is also completely irrelevant to what I was speaking to.

 

[Oberstein]

Shenmue 3 says “Halo!”.

It is a good thing that nostalgia train is finally going to derail. Industry have to move on beyond endless remakes.

The magnifying glass effect of the Internet. The same goes for Shenmue and, to a lesser extent, Alan Wake.
FF7 remains a big deal in the hearts of many fans, but the general public couldn't care less.

When you see that even iconic heroines like Lara Croft don't sell anymore... well, in her case, the badass femme fatale is everywhere... But let's thank the Japanese, they're the last ones who still put forward a "blond male hero". In the West, they've long since stopped daring to do that.

 

[squarealex]

Mainline Final Fantasy games started declining after the peak on PS1.
The real problem isn't matching the historical peak, it's that the decline was constant through time without any meanigful reversing of the trend.
Just check FFVII (PS1) -> FFX (PS2) -> FFXIII (PS3) -> FFXV (PS4) -> FFXVI (PS5) , it's a constant shrinkage of the sales even when factoring a generous digital ratio for the more recent entries.
Final Fantasy is hemoragging japanese buyers generation after generation to the point the franchise stopped being an assured million seller in Japan.

The true problem is Crisis Identity of the mainline series... Japanese people don't know how to approach the entire series now...

There is "no reason" of FF7 Remake, the most popular episode doing less than FF15 (and LESS ONLY on PS4, bc common, Xbox One doesn't exist in Japan)

And if maybe the problem is... FF7R? or more furher... the problem is... Creative Business Unit 1?

Dragon Quest working always because the never changer the core system, Pokémon always working great because they never changing the concept (catch and turn based), Monster Hunter never changes is core system...

Still waiting the "Yeah, 3 millions in 1 week, thanks" from Square Enix concerning Rebirth (Wich FF16 sales almost the same amont than 7R with larger smallest base installement), but this is not apparently the case...

So i'm pretty sure CBU1 a fucked up so many project and games (even FF7 Remake, they just ONE THING TO DO) than Final Fantasy lost so much power...

People just want a Final Fantasy with a good story, good character (and no this anime shit from CBU1), good universe and a good system battle (strategic, turn based)...

FF16 Try this in some ways... I pretty sure it have better reception with more "strategic" system and allies in battle. But now this is a fact.. despite MORE PS5 in Japan... FF16 was sold better than FF7Rebirth, the "most beloved and popular episode"

It's now sure... people want to return to a more classic concept. Persona, SMT and Like A Dragon 7&8, BG3 proove turn based can still exist in modern ways.

 

[Woopah]

Pokemon though.

That's a first party publisher

 

[Madflavor]

The FFVII Remake project is probably nearing 10 million sales combined. How fucking crazy is that? And I don't mean that in a good way. A remake of one of the most legendary and iconic videos games ever made taking 4 years to reach 10 million sales, really shows how badly Square has mismanaged the Final Fantasy IP. They really fucked up. 10 years ago nobody would have ever dreamed a remake of FFVII wouldn't print money.

It's a shame because Rebirth is legit the best Final Fantasy game we've had in decades. But I don't think it's critical acclaim and good wom is going to help it. I'm sure the performance of XVI and Rebirth have spooked the shit out of Square.

 

[Nickolaidas]

The FFVII Remake project is probably nearing 10 million sales combined. How fucking crazy is that? And I don't mean that in a good way. A remake of one of the most legendary and iconic videos games ever made taking 4 years to reach 10 million sales, really shows how badly Square has mismanaged the Final Fantasy IP. They really fucked up. 10 years ago nobody would have ever dreamed a remake of FFVII wouldn't print money.

It's a shame because Rebirth is legit the best Final Fantasy game we've had in decades. But I don't think it's critical acclaim and good wom is going to help it. I'm sure the performance of XVI and Rebirth have spooked the shit out of Square.

Resident Evil 7 started slow due to the bad taste that 6 left in the fans' mouth. But now it's one of the biggest sales numbers, I think.
I believe that word of mouth will help. We need to see 1) Digital sales and 2) world sales.

RE7 sold like shit in Japan, week 1, physical. So, I wouldn't call Rebirth a flop just yet.

 

[Madflavor]

Resident Evil 7 started slow due to the bad taste that 6 left in the fans' mouth. But now it's one of the biggest sales numbers, I think.
I believe that word of mouth will help. We need to see 1) Digital sales and 2) world sales.

RE7 sold like shit in Japan, week 1, physical. So, I wouldn't call Rebirth a flop just yet.

We’re talking about two different IPs and two different genres. Jrpgs have notoriously bad legs.

 

[Astral Dog]

It is to be expected with a small install base, the PS5 is too big, expensive and some still have the mental image of it being scare/low supply so they don't even look out for it.
The Switch 2 release will sell like crazy though.

The Switch 2 won't be able to run this game

 

[mckmas8808]

They have some presence on PC. But players dont anticipate release of new Final Fantasy. They need to change that. In other words, they need to crack the market.

As for Xbox, if you get that market, some 15-20% sales will come from it. Its upto them if its enough. But when nobody knows your game on system or are not to their taste, then yeah, you will sell 5 copies.

Xbox doesn't get 20% of sales from 3rd parties like EA and Ubisoft. So why would it happen with Square.