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[Mr.Phoenix]

I waited patiently till we have actual hard data, and here it is, performance on ps5 improved since launch, both in quality and performance mode, but even according to oliver's words, even in performance mode in the city, where game is heavily cpu bottlenecked, its around 35fps.
Thats pretty far from supposedly 60fps that it should get to, hardware is hardware, slow cpu wont magically change into fast cpu, no matter how much optimisation is put into game code.
Proof here, even in quality mode ps5 doesnt hold stable 30 in the city, both xbox series x and s are even worse ofc.

I strongly advise all the "coding to the metal/optimisation" folks to watch this short vid, and realise that hardware makes a difference, and no, ps5pr0 wont get 35fps bg3(in big city, where huge cpu bottleneck is apparent) to run at 60fps coz according to the leaks its just slight cpu clocks bump, maybe we get 45fps tho?

This is just irritating at this point. You are not saying anything new or anything that we don't know. And what you have said here doesn't change what I was saying.

Baldurs Gate 3... that one game or the odd few games like that, is not indicative of every game or dev out there. And the fact that they have continually improved it from its original release is proof that optimization does work.

And you may not like to hear it, but some devs just aren't cut out for shit like that. Some devs can't make a properly optimized game even if their lives depend on it.

Now what you are saying or advocating for, is that we throw so much power at the problem that by default everything just runs as well as we want it to. I get that, what I am saying however is twofold... Sony will not go for hardware which means they end up with an APU that costs them more. Its that even if you gave devs a zen4 whatever... they would still somehow find a way to make an unoptimized mess of a game.

I honestly hate stuff like these or arguments like these... where to make your point you find that one outlier and base your entire argument on it. Here is the bottom line. As of today, more than 90% of all PS5 games have a performance mode that maintains around 50-60fps. That is the fact and the data that is relevant. Because Sony is not going to build an APU to cater to the 10% that doesn't.

Like how can you with a clear conscience ignore massive open-world games like Spiderman 2 running at 60fps with RT and a massive sprawling city... and harp on poor hardware when talking about something like Baldurs Gate 3. I would think before you go talking shit about how hardware has its limits, you should at the very least look at what else is out there and running on the same hardware. That should hopefully inform you on where to direct your criticism.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Everyone seems so worried about how thruthful are the leaks, and not if this Pro models should be made on the first place. I mean, look PS4 Pro, it was a niche target model, compared with the slim colosal sales. Games are not gonna take full advantage of 100% pro's features, because they are gonna be always created around base model architecture....
3 years later PS5 launch, still like 80% to 90% of catalogue are enhanced crossgen games, inncluiding big names like Gran Turismo, God of War and Horizon....We are finally starting to get multiplattform UE 5 games made from the scrarch for this Gen, and now it turns that if you wanna real next gen gotta buy a newer model?

Neeee! Fuck it! I'd rather keep my base model and enhance my PC....and this comes from a former PS4 Pro user.

I think it's pretty simple.

If you want to buy a PS5 there will be two options. The Standard which is what we currently have or a more powerful Pro system.

If you already own a PS5 then you only have to ask yourself if the upgrade is worth it.

If not, then you can continue to use your current system and still enjoy games on it.

The PS5 Pro isn't going to hurt the current model.

 

[PeteBull]

This is just irritating at this point. You are not saying anything new or anything that we don't know. And what you have said here doesn't change what I was saying.

Baldurs Gate 3... that one game or the odd few games like that, is not indicative of every game or dev out there. And the fact that they have continually improved it from its original release is proof that optimization does work.

Optimisation isnt magically pushing hardware to 60fps from dipping under 30, u saw urself in the vid, hard data, even in performance mode on ps5, its 35fps in cpu heavy area, so no, optimisation didnt magically make ps5 cpu 2,5x stronger, we went from dips below 28 to around 35fps, which is really good, but target of 60stable fps wasnt achieved, and its not even close, and no amount of "optimisation" will take ps5 performance there, ofc we talking in the city, where lowering resolution doesnt help, since again- its cpu bottleneck.

Game is turn based rpg, so personally i got 0 problem with that ofc, just lets stop pretending any cpu heavy game gonna run smooth 60 on consoles, plz, if gpu is bottleneck and not cpu devs can use all kinds of dynamic res/upscaling and lower resolution right into the dumpster theritory, aka switch or ps360 alike, but for cpu bottleneck its another story.
500$ machine from november 2020 cant be omnipotent hardware, lets leave that to 2,5k+ usd worth pc rigs with rtx 4090 and r7 7800x3d.

 

[Physiognomonics]

I waited patiently till we have actual hard data, and here it is, performance on ps5 improved since launch, both in quality and performance mode, but even according to oliver's words, even in performance mode in the city, where game is heavily cpu bottlenecked, its around 35fps.
Thats pretty far from supposedly 60fps that it should get to, hardware is hardware, slow cpu wont magically change into fast cpu, no matter how much optimisation is put into game code.
Proof here, even in quality mode ps5 doesnt hold stable 30 in the city, both xbox series x and s are even worse ofc.

I strongly advise all the "coding to the metal/optimisation" folks to watch this short vid, and realise that hardware makes a difference, and no, ps5pr0 wont get 35fps bg3(in big city, where huge cpu bottleneck is apparent) to run at 60fps coz according to the leaks its just slight cpu clocks bump, maybe we get 45fps tho?

What kind of CPU you need to run at locked 60fps in the big city?

 

[PeteBull]

What kind of CPU you need to run at locked 60fps in the big city?

Roughly 2x stronger from xsx/ps5 cpu, plenty of those on market in pc space, remember consoles got downclocked lappy version of r7 3700x with less cache, and thats mid 2019 launch cpu, and even back then it wasnt top of the top part in pc consumer market
Edit:


There u go, patch 4 and patch5 numbers in act3(big city, as u can see in the vid), on ryzen 5 7600, midrange cpu worth currently under 200 usd https://pcpartpicker.com/product/yXmmP6/amd-ryzen-5-7600-38-ghz-6-core-processor-100-100001015box

As u can clearly see cpu holds fine ;D

 

[Physiognomonics]

Roughly 2x stronger from xsx/ps5 cpu, plenty of those on market in pc space, remember consoles got downclocked lappy version of r7 3700x with less cache, and thats mid 2019 launch cpu, and even back then it wasnt top of the top part in pc consumer market

This is what people forget when talking about CPUs that can be used on consoles. On PC those CPUs (and their benchmark) use much more cache than console CPUs. Using a Zen4 on console with mobile cache (because they won't dedicated more L3 cache cause that takes a lot of space) wouldn't bring the staggering improvements we see on PC. What they could do on console is 3D cache (APU would be the same size) but I think that's too early for consoles (and probably not possible on Zen 2), hopefully we'll see that on PS6.

 

[Baki]

Sony doesn't need the Pro as a device to drive adoption of the PS5 platform. It's going to be a profit-making unit, designed to keep PC gamers in the PS5 ecosystem, with a pricing strategy that is more akin to the Dualsense Edge than the PlayStation Portal. That said, they can't go too hard on the specs, not because of price, but because they don't want the Pro console overshadowing a future PS6.

Here is my specualtion based on current rumours.

• $599 or $699 with a Dualsense Edge included
• CPU will see a 30-40% boost from current PS5 and may include some modern architecture from Zen3/4
• GPU will be a 90% boost from PS5 and will include dedicated RT and upscaling hardware
• RAM will see the addition of 2GB DDR for OS overhead and increased in bandwidth for GDDR ram to 526GB/s
• All of this will be fabbed on a 4nm node
• Actual performance of games will be 2x in some scenarios

In terms of performance, it will be hard to compete with $1500 GFX cards from Nvidia, since Nvidia simply has far superior RT and AI upscaling hardware. However, as PS5 will be at close to 75M units sold by the time the Pro launches, it will solidly be the lead platform for most multi-platform games. That means 3P will optimise and put most resources towards building the best PS5 experience and leave the PC market to brute force results. The math that Sony is doing here, will be, what PC can be built within a $999 price point that can remotely compete with the performance of a PS5 Pro. Not many. GFX cards are getting more expensive and even high-end GFX cards are shipping with 12GB V-Ram creating a real bottleneck to performance. They want to convince a bunch of PC gamers that are on 1060s or even 2070s to buy a PS5 or PS5 Pro instead of buying a new GFX card, motherboard and new CPU. People who are on 3080s and above won't move, but that's a small fraction of the PC market.

It's about striking a balance, not about going buckwild crazy. Look at what they did with the PS4 Pro. That alone should tell you how they'll handle the PS5 Pro. They'll make it a good enough offering to entice the hardcore crowd, but that doesn't mean they have to go bonkers with extreme specs and price.

The entire point of the PS4 Pro was to provide an option to the segment of gamers who wanted more than what the baseline PS4 could offer and who might jump to PC. Sony themselves said this, their data showed that these people would typically jump over around the mid point of the gen. The Pro is meant to help keep that hardcore segment in the ecosystem and draw more of the hardcore into the ecosystem. If they do a good enough job of striking a balance, then they can achieve that while maintaining a reasonable price.

Raw TF is only a portion of the entire picture. If that's the only metric you're looking at then you're missing the big picture. If their reconstruction tech and inherent improvements from newer RDNA versions allows the Pro to punch above its weight class (ie, raw numbers) then they'll have achieved that goal of striking the right balance.

Agreed about balance. PS5 Pro is catering to the crowd of PC folks that will be looking to upgrade for the 10xx series Nvidia cards. So pricing needs to be in an attractive range compared to buying a new GFX card and some other things. They also need to keep things constrained because they don't want to overshadow the PS6.

I think the PS5 Pro, outside of RT performance, will trade blows with top end PCs, especially on any first party ports from PlayStation Studios. That's just the benefit of being a closed system with a very narrow focus on 1 thing (gaming).

 

[Loxus]

Sony doesn't need the Pro as a device to drive adoption of the PS5 platform. It's going to be a profit-making unit, designed to keep PC gamers in the PS5 ecosystem, with a pricing strategy that is more akin to the Dualsense Edge than the PlayStation Portal. That said, they can't go too hard on the specs, not because of price, but because they don't want the Pro console overshadowing a future PS6.

Here is my specualtion based on current rumours.

• $599 or $699 with a Dualsense Edge included
• CPU will see a 30-40% boost from current PS5 and may include some modern architecture from Zen3/4
• GPU will be a 90% boost from PS5 and will include dedicated RT and upscaling hardware
• RAM will see the addition of 2GB DDR for OS overhead and increased in bandwidth for GDDR ram to 526GB/s
• All of this will be fabbed on a 4nm node
• Actual performance of games will be 2x in some scenarios

In terms of performance, it will be hard to compete with $1500 GFX cards from Nvidia, since Nvidia simply has far superior RT and AI upscaling hardware. However, as PS5 will be at close to 75M units sold by the time the Pro launches, it will solidly be the lead platform for most multi-platform games. That means 3P will optimise and put most resources towards building the best PS5 experience and leave the PC market to brute force results. The math that Sony is doing here, will be, what PC can be built within a $999 price point that can remotely compete with the performance of a PS5 Pro. Not many. GFX cards are getting more expensive and even high-end GFX cards are shipping with 12GB V-Ram creating a real bottleneck to performance. They want to convince a bunch of PC gamers that are on 1060s or even 2070s to buy a PS5 or PS5 Pro instead of buying a new GFX card, motherboard and new CPU. People who are on 3080s and above won't move, but that's a small fraction of the PC market.

PS6 will most likely take the Multi-GPU route.

There are two patents from AMD that explains how this approach works. Not on my PC with bookmarks to add the links.

With Sony, there is also a Multi-GPU patent. Where each GPU chiplet acts as a single GPU and renders a section of the screen.

For example, think of it as the PS6 having 4 GPU chiplets. Each GPU chiplet powerful enough to render 60/120fps - 1800p upscale to 4k or full 4k.

The four GPU chiplets then combine to produce a final 8k image.

The is why a PS5 Pro having these specs;

-12C (4xZEN5 +8xZEN5c)
-54CU or even 72 CU RDNA3.5/4
-XDNA2

Will Not overshadow the PS6.

 

[Baki]

PS6 will most likely take the Multi-GPU route.

There are two patents from AMD that explains how this approach works. Not on my PC with bookmarks to add the links.

With Sony, there is also a Multi-GPU patent. Where each GPU chiplet acts as a single GPU and renders a section of the screen.

For example, think of it as the PS6 having 4 GPU chiplets. Each GPU chiplet powerful enough to render 60/120fps - 1800p upscale to 4k or full 4k.

The four GPU chiplets then combine to produce a final 8k image.

The is why a PS5 Pro having these specs;

-12C (4xZEN5 +8xZEN5c)
-54CU or even 72 CU RDNA3.5/4
-XDNA2

Will Not overshadow the PS6.

That seems too ambitious for 2028 PS6. Especially for a $499 launch price.

 

[Loxus]

That seems too ambitious for 2028 PS6. Especially for a $499 launch price.

Not really, that was the plan for RDNA4.

PS6 will most likely be using RDNA6/7 depending on AMD's roadmap in 2028.
By then, the chiplet tech will be cheaper to produce.

For more info. Chiplets are cheaper.

 

[Baki]

Not really, that was the plan for RDNA4.

PS6 will most likely be using RDNA6/7 depending on AMD's roadmap in 2028.
By then, the chiplet tech will be cheaper to produce.

For more info. Chiplet for cheaper.

Thanks for sharing. That's really exciting. Do you think Sony will stick with AMD for the next cycle? I know Xbox is considering ARM.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

That seems too ambitious for 2028 PS6. Especially for a $499 launch price.

Not really, in fact, I would go as far as saying that at this point it's almost inevitable. Chiplet design would mean it's very very easy for Sony to reiterate on the PS6 design. And it also improves the whole yields thing.

Thanks for sharing. That's really exciting. Do you think Sony will stick with AMD for the next cycle? I know Xbox is considering ARM.

110%

 

[Bluntman]

PS6 will most likely take the Multi-GPU route.

There are two patents from AMD that explains how this approach works. Not on my PC with bookmarks to add the links.

With Sony, there is also a Multi-GPU patent. Where each GPU chiplet acts as a single GPU and renders a section of the screen.

For example, think of it as the PS6 having 4 GPU chiplets. Each GPU chiplet powerful enough to render 60/120fps - 1800p upscale to 4k or full 4k.

The four GPU chiplets then combine to produce a final 8k image.

The is why a PS5 Pro having these specs;

-12C (4xZEN5 +8xZEN5c)
-54CU or even 72 CU RDNA3.5/4
-XDNA2

Will Not overshadow the PS6.

PS5 Pro won't have XDNA2 / Xilinx hardware because it doesn't makes sense for a gaming console.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

PS5 Pro won't have XDNA2 / Xilinx hardware because it doesn't makes sense for a gaming console.

All the rumors point at the Pro having some sort of AI hardware, and the only AI hardware AMD has is XDNA. Furthermore, the PS4pro had dedicated reconstruction hardware which made the GCN4 cores found in the PS4pro different from every iteration of GCN4 on the market at that time.

So there is precedent to indicate that Sony can do stuff like this.

 

[Bluntman]

All the rumors point at the Pro having some sort of AI hardware, and the only AI hardware AMD has is XDNA. Furthermore, the PS4pro had dedicated reconstruction hardware which made the GCN4 cores found in the PS4pro different from every iteration of GCN4 on the market at that time.

So there is precedent to indicate that Sony can do stuff like this.

Well that's the dead giveaway the rumors so far are just fantasies of a fanboy who put together stuff from the AMD roadmap )

A gaming console can't do anything with an XDNA hardware.

And no, PS5 Pro won't have dual issue GPU either, because it also doesnt makes sense )

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Well that's the dead giveaway the rumors so far are just fantasies of a fanboy who put together stuff from the AMD roadmap )

A gaming console can't do anything with an XDNA hardware.

And no, PS5 Pro won't have dual issue GPU either, because it also doesnt makes sense )

I don't know what it will have or not have. I just know that I won't write off it having things that are unique to it.

 

[playsaves3]

This is just irritating at this point. You are not saying anything new or anything that we don't know. And what you have said here doesn't change what I was saying.

Baldurs Gate 3... that one game or the odd few games like that, is not indicative of every game or dev out there. And the fact that they have continually improved it from its original release is proof that optimization does work.

And you may not like to hear it, but some devs just aren't cut out for shit like that. Some devs can't make a properly optimized game even if their lives depend on it.

Now what you are saying or advocating for, is that we throw so much power at the problem that by default everything just runs as well as we want it to. I get that, what I am saying however is twofold... Sony will not go for hardware which means they end up with an APU that costs them more. Its that even if you gave devs a zen4 whatever... they would still somehow find a way to make an unoptimized mess of a game.

I honestly hate stuff like these or arguments like these... where to make your point you find that one outlier and base your entire argument on it. Here is the bottom line. As of today, more than 90% of all PS5 games have a performance mode that maintains around 50-60fps. That is the fact and the data that is relevant. Because Sony is not going to build an APU to cater to the 10% that doesn't.

Like how can you with a clear conscience ignore massive open-world games like Spiderman 2 running at 60fps with RT and a massive sprawling city... and harp on poor hardware when talking about something like Baldurs Gate 3. I would think before you go talking shit about how hardware has its limits, you should at the very least look at what else is out there and running on the same hardware. That should hopefully inform you on where to direct your criticism.

It would be impossible to make a zen 5 cpu run below 60 if it sticks to base ps5 settings even with the worst optimization in history that’s the point.

 

[MikeM]

It would be impossible to make a zen 5 cpu run below 60 if it sticks to base ps5 settings even with the worst optimization in history that’s the point.

Devs: challenge accepted.

 

[playsaves3]

Roughly 2x stronger from xsx/ps5 cpu, plenty of those on market in pc space, remember consoles got downclocked lappy version of r7 3700x with less cache, and thats mid 2019 launch cpu, and even back then it wasnt top of the top part in pc consumer market
Edit:


There u go, patch 4 and patch5 numbers in act3(big city, as u can see in the vid), on ryzen 5 7600, midrange cpu worth currently under 200 usd https://pcpartpicker.com/product/yXmmP6/amd-ryzen-5-7600-38-ghz-6-core-processor-100-100001015box

As u can clearly see cpu holds fine ;D

They could easily use a low end zen 5 cpu and just about double the ps5 cpu Througjput only reason they wouldn’t isn’t even cost anymore maybe they don’t want the base model to look bad in comparison

 

[playsaves3]

Optimisation isnt magically pushing hardware to 60fps from dipping under 30, u saw urself in the vid, hard data, even in performance mode on ps5, its 35fps in cpu heavy area, so no, optimisation didnt magically make ps5 cpu 2,5x stronger, we went from dips below 28 to around 35fps, which is really good, but target of 60stable fps wasnt achieved, and its not even close, and no amount of "optimisation" will take ps5 performance there, ofc we talking in the city, where lowering resolution doesnt help, since again- its cpu bottleneck.

Game is turn based rpg, so personally i got 0 problem with that ofc, just lets stop pretending any cpu heavy game gonna run smooth 60 on consoles, plz, if gpu is bottleneck and not cpu devs can use all kinds of dynamic res/upscaling and lower resolution right into the dumpster theritory, aka switch or ps360 alike, but for cpu bottleneck its another story.
500$ machine from november 2020 cant be omnipotent hardware, lets leave that to 2,5k+ usd worth pc rigs with rtx 4090 and r7 7800x3d.

Devs: challenge accepted.

Still impossible worst I can see is like 65fps with the exact same settings and that’s with horrid optimization with good optimization this zen 5 cpu could do 120 in those same games

 

[playsaves3]

Optimisation isnt magically pushing hardware to 60fps from dipping under 30, u saw urself in the vid, hard data, even in performance mode on ps5, its 35fps in cpu heavy area, so no, optimisation didnt magically make ps5 cpu 2,5x stronger, we went from dips below 28 to around 35fps, which is really good, but target of 60stable fps wasnt achieved, and its not even close, and no amount of "optimisation" will take ps5 performance there, ofc we talking in the city, where lowering resolution doesnt help, since again- its cpu bottleneck.

Game is turn based rpg, so personally i got 0 problem with that ofc, just lets stop pretending any cpu heavy game gonna run smooth 60 on consoles, plz, if gpu is bottleneck and not cpu devs can use all kinds of dynamic res/upscaling and lower resolution right into the dumpster theritory, aka switch or ps360 alike, but for cpu bottleneck its another story.
500$ machine from november 2020 cant be omnipotent hardware, lets leave that to 2,5k+ usd worth pc rigs with rtx 4090 and r7 7800x3d.

I feel like the pro having a zen 5 based cpu about the same strength as a 5800x 3d should be possible (maybe just under) don’t know why they would refuse.

 

[playsaves3]

This is what people forget when talking about CPUs that can be used on consoles. On PC those CPUs (and their benchmark) use much more cache than console CPUs. Using a Zen4 on console with mobile cache (because they won't dedicated more L3 cache cause that takes a lot of space) wouldn't bring the staggering improvements we see on PC. What they could do on console is 3D cache (APU would be the same size) but I think that's too early for consoles (and probably not possible on Zen 2), hopefully we'll see that on PS6.

Something newer than 3d cache will be there for ps6 so I think the pro could use 3d cache. Man this really shows Sony screwed up big time using zen 2 instead of zen 3 with the base model

 

[playsaves3]

Sony doesn't need the Pro as a device to drive adoption of the PS5 platform. It's going to be a profit-making unit, designed to keep PC gamers in the PS5 ecosystem, with a pricing strategy that is more akin to the Dualsense Edge than the PlayStation Portal. That said, they can't go too hard on the specs, not because of price, but because they don't want the Pro console overshadowing a future PS6.

Here is my specualtion based on current rumours.

• $599 or $699 with a Dualsense Edge included
• CPU will see a 30-40% boost from current PS5 and may include some modern architecture from Zen3/4
• GPU will be a 90% boost from PS5 and will include dedicated RT and upscaling hardware
• RAM will see the addition of 2GB DDR for OS overhead and increased in bandwidth for GDDR ram to 526GB/s
• All of this will be fabbed on a 4nm node
• Actual performance of games will be 2x in some scenarios

In terms of performance, it will be hard to compete with $1500 GFX cards from Nvidia, since Nvidia simply has far superior RT and AI upscaling hardware. However, as PS5 will be at close to 75M units sold by the time the Pro launches, it will solidly be the lead platform for most multi-platform games. That means 3P will optimise and put most resources towards building the best PS5 experience and leave the PC market to brute force results. The math that Sony is doing here, will be, what PC can be built within a $999 price point that can remotely compete with the performance of a PS5 Pro. Not many. GFX cards are getting more expensive and even high-end GFX cards are shipping with 12GB V-Ram creating a real bottleneck to performance. They want to convince a bunch of PC gamers that are on 1060s or even 2070s to buy a PS5 or PS5 Pro instead of buying a new GFX card, motherboard and new CPU. People who are on 3080s and above won't move, but that's a small fraction of the PC market.



Agreed about balance. PS5 Pro is catering to the crowd of PC folks that will be looking to upgrade for the 10xx series Nvidia cards. So pricing needs to be in an attractive range compared to buying a new GFX card and some other things. They also need to keep things constrained because they don't want to overshadow the PS6.

I think the PS5 Pro, outside of RT performance, will trade blows with top end PCs, especially on any first party ports from PlayStation Studios. That's just the benefit of being a closed system with a very narrow focus on 1 thing (gaming).

They can go hard on specs cause even if the ps6 was only 2-3x more powerful than a monster pro almost no casual person will buy a pro but they will get a ps6 and all the upgrades that come along with it. The ps6 only needs to a generation above the base not the pro.

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

What's the point of the Pro If they can't achieve 60fps in GTAVI?? Yeah games will look and run better/smoother on the Pro.

Maybe upgrading my PC will be a better deal after all.

 

[PeteBull]

I feel like the pro having a zen 5 based cpu about the same strength as a 5800x 3d should be possible (maybe just under) don’t know why they would refuse.

Atm top what amd can offer is zen4, could we get downclocked 7800x3d in ps5pr0, maybe at 800$ instead of predictable 500-600$ what we gonna get?
Personally ofc i would love such mashine, but all the leaks suggest otherwise, so will buy w/e ps5pr0 we gonna get, even if its just 10-20% higher clocks on cpu, and 60-70% stronger gpu in raster(probably 1,5-2x stronger in rt).

 

[ChiefDada]

I'm still confused by the concern over CPU. The fidelity modes we currently play are GPU limited, and RT is almost always the culprit for RDNA 2. So if the rumors of 2x RT HW are true, that already places PS5 Pro in the realm of native 4k60 with RT. Add on top of this the rumored ~50% uptick in rasterization and we're repositioning the bottleneck from GPU to perhaps memory bandwidth . Of course developers could choose to use the extra Pro HW for additional RT and other vfx which is fine with me. But we should have no problem with locked 60fps fidelity modes. As for potential performance mode on the pro, I suspect developers will be able to reduce the visual cutbacks they currently make and have performance mode be more GPU limited with framerate in 70s-100, depending on the game.

 

[PeteBull]

What's the point of the Pro If they can't achieve 60fps in GTAVI?? Yeah games will look and run better/smoother on the Pro.

Maybe upgrading my PC will be a better deal after all.

Thats why rockstar gonna launch gta6 on consoles first, likely following template of gta5, so september/end of 2025 on xsx/xss/ps5/ps5pr0, then maybe 2026 xbox next, 2028 on ps6, and only after that pc, hopefully im wrong but they already tasted how nice double/trippledipper's money feels and got strong resolve to taste that cash again =D.
Just as a reminder- gta5 on xbox 360 and ps3= sept 2013
Then over year later nov 2014=ps4 and xbox one
Then half a year later, so april 2015 only= pc version.
And cherry on a cake- march 2022 for ps5/xbox series consoles

 

[playsaves3]

PS6 will most likely take the Multi-GPU route.

There are two patents from AMD that explains how this approach works. Not on my PC with bookmarks to add the links.

With Sony, there is also a Multi-GPU patent. Where each GPU chiplet acts as a single GPU and renders a section of the screen.

For example, think of it as the PS6 having 4 GPU chiplets. Each GPU chiplet powerful enough to render 60/120fps - 1800p upscale to 4k or full 4k.

The four GPU chiplets then combine to produce a final 8k image.

The is why a PS5 Pro having these specs;

-12C (4xZEN5 +8xZEN5c)
-54CU or even 72 CU RDNA3.5/4
-XDNA2

Will Not overshadow the PS6.

Yeah it’s crazy how limited everyone thinks the ps6 will be we have 0 clue the full scope of the tech then but one things for certain it will be worlds better than anything even now if they make the ps5 pro as good as possible this will really benefit the ps6 backwards compatibility

 

[Loxus]

PS5 Pro won't have XDNA2 / Xilinx hardware because it doesn't makes sense for a gaming console.

I was thinking it can be used for background tasks or streaming in order to free up the CPU/GPU.

The refresh that wasn’t — AMD announces ‘Hawk Point’ Ryzen 8040 Series, teases Strix Point
The NPU is a low-power dedicated accelerator that resides on-die with the CPU cores, consisting of the XDNA AI engine. This engine is designed to execute lower-intensity AI inference workloads, like photo, audio, and video processing, at lower power than the CPU or GPU cores using INT8 instructions.

It's roughly the same size as 4 RDNA3 Work Groups, so not much die space is needed.

It's the bottom left square.

RDNA3 has AI Accelerators that Sony can customize to use for AI upscaling.

 

[playsaves3]

Atm top what amd can offer is zen4, could we get downclocked 7800x3d in ps5pr0, maybe at 800$ instead of predictable 500-600$ what we gonna get?
Personally ofc i would love such mashine, but all the leaks suggest otherwise, so will buy w/e ps5pr0 we gonna get, even if its just 10-20% higher clocks on cpu, and 60-70% stronger gpu in raster(probably 1,5-2x stronger in rt).

Why would zen 5 be off the table it will be almost a year old when the pro comes out. I was saying zen 5 cause I imagine a low range zen 5 not even mid range could equal a 5800x3d in performance I’m aware zen 4 can’t quite do that yet. I also don’t think a low range zen 5 would be that expensive

 

[playsaves3]

That seems too ambitious for 2028 PS6. Especially for a $499 launch price.

I think the ps6 will be 599 tbf

 

[playsaves3]

Not really, that was the plan for RDNA4.

PS6 will most likely be using RDNA6/7 depending on AMD's roadmap in 2028.
By then, the chiplet tech will be cheaper to produce.

For more info. Chiplet for cheaper.

There are also might be something a lot better than Rdna by then

 

[TheRedRiders]

I think the ps6 will be 599 tbf

Do you know how to use the quote feature on this website?

 

[Brigandier]

This thread is comedy gold

TheRedRiders I've already quoted and told him half a dozen times he won't listen just like he can't understand a calendar

 

[playsaves3]

N

I'm still confused by the concern over CPU. The fidelity modes we currently play are GPU limited, and RT is almost always the culprit for RDNA 2. So if the rumors of 2x RT HW are true, that already places PS5 Pro in the realm of native 4k60 with RT. Add on top of this the rumored ~50% uptick in rasterization and we're repositioning the bottleneck from GPU to perhaps memory bandwidth . Of course developers could choose to use the extra Pro HW for additional RT and other vfx which is fine with me. But we should have no problem with locked 60fps fidelity modes. As for potential performance mode on the pro, I suspect developers will be able to reduce the visual cutbacks they currently make and have performance mode be more GPU limited with framerate in 70s-100, depending on the game.

not always Spider-Man and ratchet become more cpu demanding with rt the higher the resolution is. I don’t buy for a second overlocked zen 2 gurantees a 60fps performance mode in all future games

 

[PeteBull]

Why would zen 5 be off the table it will be almost a year old when the pro comes out. I was saying zen 5 cause I imagine a low range zen 5 not even mid range could equal a 5800x3d in performance I’m aware zen 4 can’t quite do that yet. I also don’t think a low range zen 5 would be that expensive

Thats simply coz ps5pr0 specs/tech is already finalised by now, zen 5 will launch in 2024 sometime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_5

 

[playsaves3]

I'm still confused by the concern over CPU. The fidelity modes we currently play are GPU limited, and RT is almost always the culprit for RDNA 2. So if the rumors of 2x RT HW are true, that already places PS5 Pro in the realm of native 4k60 with RT. Add on top of this the rumored ~50% uptick in rasterization and we're repositioning the bottleneck from GPU to perhaps memory bandwidth . Of course developers could choose to use the extra Pro HW for additional RT and other vfx which is fine with me. But we should have no problem with locked 60fps fidelity modes. As for potential performance mode on the pro, I suspect developers will be able to reduce the visual cutbacks they currently make and have performance mode be more GPU limited with framerate in 70s-100, depending on the game.

Thats simply coz ps5pr0 specs/tech is already finalised by now, zen 5 will launch in 2024 sometime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_5

Zen 5 is coming around February (possibly January) is there no reason they couldn’t have been developing the pro alongside its release to be the first device using it?

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

So do we have a close to real leaks at this point?

 

[PeteBull]

So do we have a close to real leaks at this point?

What the leaks atm are saying is mild bump to cpu clocks but still using same zen2 cpu, and gpu gonna be downclocked rx 7800xt (60cu), so +60 to 70% increased performance in raster, but much better rt performance.
Another solid info is- all 3rd party studios either already have devkits or gonna have them in upcoming weeks.

 

[Loxus]

Thats simply coz ps5pr0 specs/tech is already finalised by now, zen 5 will launch in 2024 sometime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_5

This quote from Mark Cerny in Road to PS5 says a lot.

"If you see a similar discrete GPU available as a PC card at roughly the same time as we release our console, that means our collaboration with AMD succeeded.

In producing technology useful in both worlds, it doesn't mean that we, as Sony, simply incorporated the pc part into our console."


I believe this would apply to the CPU as well. So the PS5 Pro with a Zen5 CPU can release the same year as Zen5.

 

[Loxus]

So do we have a close to real leaks at this point?

Learning from the past, I like to regard every PlayStation console specs leak as rumors.

I prefer to do my own specualtion until official specs are released, even if my specualtion is wrong.

I hated falling for all those PS5 spec leaks.

 

[ChiefDada]

N

not always Spider-Man and ratchet become more cpu demanding with rt the higher the resolution is. I don’t buy for a second overlocked zen 2 gurantees a 60fps performance mode in all future games

Yes you become MORE cpu bottlenecked with more RT, but base PS5 is GPU bottlenecked in like 95% of games fidelity and performance modes. Look at Hardware Unboxed CPU benchmarks for Spiderman Remastered using a 3090 as constant GPU. At 4K resolution with High RT, the Ryzen 3600 is averaging well over 70fps. Remember PS5 CPU performs MUCH better primarily because of i/o and decompression offloading. We are GPU bottlenecked by FAR. Even in Performance RT modes we are still heavily GPU bottlenecked. And this is mainly caused by limited RT HW in RDNA2. CPU isn't the issue. Sony is right to focus on RT and upscaling. The more I think about it, I wonder what the hell they are going to use all of this extra compute for if RT traversal and AI upscaling is true.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

One thing with the leaks that is more intriguing for me this time round is what Tom Henderson has said about TP devs now having the dev kits (implying Sony FP have already had them for a while) even though this would on the face of it be before developer disclosure at the likes of GDC. Maybe Sony decided in the first instance to disclose details on a dev by dev basis to limit leaks? Also, assuming a November release, it would mean devs have a full year with the Pro which seems like a long time....Maybe launch is much sooner (Spring) or it does have tech that are new and devs need more time to take advantage of it?

 

[PeteBull]

This quote from Mark Cerny in Road to PS5 says a lot.

"If you see a similar discrete GPU available as a PC card at roughly the same time as we release our console, that means our collaboration with AMD succeeded.

In producing technology useful in both worlds, it doesn't mean that we, as Sony, simply incorporated the pc part into our console."


I believe this would apply to the CPU as well. So the PS5 Pro with a Zen5 CPU can release the same year as Zen5.

I agree, in theory its possible, if we totally disregard recent leaks, which no sane person will do, till those leaks happened i also hoped/dreamead of much stronger cpu and gpu in ps5pr0 even if it would make its launch price 800usd.
Unfortunately reality is brutal, some things cant be helped =/

 

[Loxus]

I agree, in theory its possible, if we totally disregard recent leaks, which no sane person will do, till those leaks happened i also hoped/dreamead of much stronger cpu and gpu in ps5pr0 even if it would make its launch price 800usd.
Unfortunately reality is brutal, some things cant be helped =/

Well, like I said before.

Base on all the fake PS5 leaks back in 2019, I'm not 100% believing in any of these leak.

For example.
This makes it possible he is also wrong about the PS5 Pro still using Zen2.


I rather do my own speculations and wait on official specs.

 

[EDMIX]

That seems too ambitious for 2028 PS6. Especially for a $499 launch price.

tbh, I don't know what it or isn't at this point.

1. We are in 2023, by 2028 that price might be drastically different like lower
2. They buy in bulk and get massive discounts
3. Developer demand. Any developer at Sony or else where might suggest this and Sony might be more likely to go higher and take a loss to have the more powerful machine.


Any of those things can occur between now and 2028.

So what might seem ambitious for 2023, might be "meh" in 2028, who knows.

 

[ChiefDada]

Ok I am 100% convinced that DLSS equivalent or better AI upscaling is in PS5 Pro after watching this DF video It's "interesting" to me that DF laughed off the 8k rumors but they had no problem spending time to make a video on 8k DLSS performance and visual benefits running on a 3090.





Key Highlights.

1. Most beneficial for raster games since upscaling (especially from lower res) introduces artifacts on RT effects like reflections.

2. 1440p internal resolution upscaled to 8k provides better IQ than Native 4k w/TAA in most instances. DS had texture bug issues in Alex's testing

3. 4k internal resolution upscaled to 8k IQ is perceptibly better than 1440p DLSS upscaled to native 8k (which itself is better than native 4k), but doesn't look quite as good as native 8k

Here's my guess on how things play out: I don't think we will even have an option to turn AI upscaling on/off. It will always be on by default. Games that currently run at native 4k/30 on base PS5 will now be upscaled automatically to 8k output. RT/Raster uplift of PS5 Pro will allow these games to hit minimum 60fps. Games that currently run at internal 1440p for performance can also be upscaled to 4k or 8k (unclear to me if 60fps+ introduces more latency pressure on AI upscaling especially since 1440p is much further from 8k) and run 60-120 fps.

My hype is through the damn roof now. I imagine we can easily get 100-120fps with better than native 4k IQ at minimum for most last-gen and cross-gen games such as GoW Ragnarok, Forbidden West, etc.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Ok I am 100% convinced that DLSS equivalent or better AI upscaling is in PS5 Pro after watching this DF video It's "interesting" to me that DF laughed off the 8k rumors but they had no problem spending time to make a video on 8k DLSS performance and visual benefits running on a 3090.





Key Highlights.

1. Most beneficial for raster games since upscaling (especially from lower res) introduces artifacts on RT effects like reflections.

2. 1440p internal resolution upscaled to 8k provides better IQ than Native 4k w/TAA in most instances. DS had texture bug issues in Alex's testing

3. 4k internal resolution upscaled to 8k IQ is perceptibly better than 1440p DLSS upscaled to native 8k (which itself is better than native 4k), but doesn't look quite as good as native 8k

Here's my guess on how things play out: I don't think we will even have an option to turn AI upscaling on/off. It will always be on by default. Games that currently run at native 4k/30 on base PS5 will now be upscaled automatically to 8k output. RT/Raster uplift of PS5 Pro will allow these games to hit minimum 60fps. Games that currently run at internal 1440p for performance can also be upscaled to 4k or 8k (unclear to me if 60fps+ introduces more latency pressure on AI upscaling especially since 1440p is much further from 8k) and run 60-120 fps.

My hype is through the damn roof now. I imagine we can easily get 100-120fps with better than native 4k IQ at minimum for most last-gen and cross-gen games such as GoW Ragnarok, Forbidden West, etc.

Hopefully
Remember Sony kinda started it on the PS4 with Killzone SF and another form with the PS4 Pro.

 

[CityHunter1981]

Pretty sure it will be a small upgrade, similar to PS4 to PS4 Pro.

I can also not see they will target 8k resolutions, 8k resolution is something for a very small audience who have televisions over 65 inch or a projector, for smaller sizes it’s just not feasible.

Instead of spending money on 8k, make sure you get a top 4K television. I spent a little bit more on Sony, because they still have the best upscaling and I can’t really tell the difference between 2160p or 1440p, because the internal upscale already produces a near perfect picture.

 

[EDMIX]

I can also not see they will target 8k resolutions, 8k resolution is something for a very small audience who have televisions over 65 inch or a projector, for smaller sizes it’s just not feasible.

lol stop bruv, the PS5 literally supports 8k, but the PS5 Pro won't? smh...