VeganElduderino
Member
it might not ever come out , but it still looks like what NEXT GEN graphics should be...eventually will get there
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
SimTourist
Member
Lol prepare for heavy downgrades. There's no chance in hell SW will look like that, it's typical Ubisoft bullshot trailer.if that SciFi New IP rumor is true, and its open world then it will look a lot like star wars outlaws. With better cinematography.
Their open world rendering isnt exactly industry leading as we can see from the open world Uncharted 4, Lost Legacy and TLOU2 levels. So they will probably have to settle with sharing the spotlight with outlaws.
VeganElduderino
Member
well yeah! it looks like there's a hurricane coming, no doubt its BS
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Exactly.
i never see Callisto mentioned. the upside down cutscene looks like an expensive movie.
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
It really feels like every game pushing boundaries and video games into a new level gets hated, like a progression detector goes off and hive mind comes in to attack it. TLOU 2, The Order 1886, BF 2042 (Yes, The Map Sizes etc), HFW, The Callisto Protocol, Detroit Become Human Etc.This game looks amazing. Whats even more incredible is that the game looks worse in photomode and screenshots because a huge part of the visual appeal are the volumetric fog effects and other moving lighting effects that dont show up in screenshots. It's actually the biggest difference between Dead Space remake visuals and Callisto Protocol's. Both have virtually the same asset quality and lighting, but Dead Space is lacking the volumetric lighting that makes the game looks last gen in comparison. DS also tries to have the volumetric lighting effect from light source but its just so limited, it might as well not be there. Their original reveal was full of that thick volumetric lighting you see here in callisto in pretty much every room but missing in almost all the dead space rooms except for the ones that actually add volumetric fog.
It sucks that the game was so poorly received because despite its numerous flaws, the team is definitely talented and deserves to make a new game.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Bought it on Steam since my PS+ membership is expiring and im not about to renew it for a $150, and while PC performance is atrocious forcing me to turn the settings down to medium just to keep RT on, I am reminded of just how many different things the game is doing. The volumetric fog and smoke effects are stunning. Uncharted 4 did something like this during its grenade explosions and batman AK's pc port had nvidia sponsored smoke effects but both went away in a matter of seconds. This game just keeps them on at all times. This game is why im not too worried about a major star wars outlaws downgrade. the consoles have enough raw GPU power to do wind and smoke simulations. devs shouldnt have to downgrade key features like this.
And I just love how random fucking tunnels in the game are lit with like ten different light sources for no reason other than to ensure it looks great at all time.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
They designed the new planet with wind simulation in mind. they talked about it in a dev diary. the wind will effect every part of that open world. Even if they downgrade the visuals, they will likely keep the wind effects because they are the key part of the open world lore, design and gameplay elements.
Timestamped:
Ghost of Tsushima tried to do this last gen but didnt have the GPU and CPU available to pull it off. I have no doubt we will see GoT2 have these stunning wind effects on a much larger scale.
VeganElduderino
Member
looks great , but I still think there's going to be a downgrade, this looks too good to be true.
GymWolf
Gold Member
I said basic response and ia, not sure how what you say show something different, like i said you have to go into starfield territory to find something similar or worse, not a great achievement...NPCs in SM2 only perform basic actions, but they are not unresponsive.
When Spidey flies low or engages in combat, they crouch, fall, scream, and some run away.
As Spidey walks down the street, they pull out their phones, ask for a hug, and say a few words.
The developers seem to have focused more on increasing the number of NPCs and vehicles than on more diverse interactions.
There are limits to the console's CPU (Zen 2).
Most of the times they just crouch even if the combat is a couple of meters from them, hell you can toss shit at them and most of the time they barely move.
My point still stand, they are the most simple tier of npcs you are gonna find in a game.
What they do is the basic shit that all npcs do, having a prompt to high five like it was in the previous title doesn't change that.
When gta6 is gonna show how it supposed to be done we are not gonna talk about cpu problems.
Sony games are as safe and sanitized as it comes, they don't want to deal with the problems given by having actual good npcs.
Who gives a fuck if there are more in the streets when their quality is the lowest there is? Maybe they should try to reach a balance instead of only going with raw numbers...
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GymWolf
Gold Member
It looked terrible on my c1, especially when you are used to crisp iq, i guess that console players are easier to please or you just like when games have a super soft look.
Also i don't think that it's gonna look better than 99% of games even with a res upgrade but i'm not gonna try to change your idea, people have idolized the graphic of that turd since forever.
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MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Cyberpunk, random NPCs:
GymWolf
Gold Member
This is one area where Spiderman 2 is better than Cyberpunk. not just the number of NPCs but the npc variety, and animations is top notch.Cyberpunk, random NPCs:
Cit.
Maybe he was talking about their skin colors and sexual orientations
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MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
This is one area where Spiderman 2 is better than Cyberpunk. not just the number of NPCs but the npc variety, and animations is top notch.
Cit.
Maybe he was talking about their skin colors and sexual orientations
I like some of
SlimySnake
takes but sometimes it's almost like he's living in an alternative dimension. This one is def not his best.
GymWolf
Gold Member
J stevensoy managed to break him.I like some of
rofif
Banned
What a bunch of annoying pricks with punchable faces.Cyberpunk, random NPCs:
Senua
Gold Member
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
It's called Cyberpunk.
Well.....I mean....they are Punks afterall.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Dude, cyberpunk was mercilessly memed and mocked for its NPCs back when the game first came out. Its not improved that much since. The animations are still wonky and while they react better to your actions, their NPC routines are still very ordinary.I like some of
This is the least controversial take because unlike my other contrarian takes, this one is literally me jumping on the hate bandwagon.
I feel like we had this conversation before because i remember taking these videos just walking around a few weeks ago. These arent even places where people congregate and you really get to see people doing different things in groups.
Meanwhile Cyberpunk at max crowd settings feels like a last gen game in terms of number of NPCs simply roaming around the world. Spiderman remastered already had a massive leap in sheers numbers, but like I said it was mostly the same dudes in black suits over and over again. With Spiderman 2 they have done a great job adding variety to the NPCs and while it comes at a cost and the number of NPCs isnt as high as Spiderman remastered and Miles, its still leagues ahead of Cyberpunk. They did a lot of work with the audio design in Spidey 2. You would just be walking around and hear random conversations. Its great.
I took this vid just now. But I will do some more comparisons tonight in city squares where there are more people in both cyberpunk and Spiderman 2.
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MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Are we talking about graphical fidelity or AI now, I’m lost.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
NPC variety, animations and number of them.
This is what i said that started the discussion. I was praising cyberpunk for being one of the few games to get a visual upgrade from the OG reveal, but that their pedestrians did not get such an upgrade.
Whats funny about cyberpunk is that it is one of the few games that got a glow up instead of a downgrade after the first gameplay reveal.
At least on PC. what they couldnt do was get their pedestrian system working. The animations were so bad i couldnt believe it. Its much better now in terms of NPC behavior but those janky NPC walking animations are still there even after 3 years and $125 million they put into cyberpunk 2.0.
This is one area where Spiderman 2 is better than Cyberpunk. not just the number of NPCs but the npc variety, and animations is top notch.
This is what I said to clarify my position. i never said anything about AI or graphics fidelity, simply that NPC variety, behavior and number of them is better than in cyberpunk. it simply feels like a more lively city.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
The only thing I can agree with is that Spider-Man has more NPCs at once on a screen. That’s it. Cyberpunk already has so many that it’s difficult to walk in some areas, at least on PC.
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GymWolf
Gold Member
Credit to our @drusilla gif master
www.neogaf.com
Gif can make even a dogshit looking game like dogma 2 look incredible.
News - Dragon's Dogma II will be releasing on March 22, 2024
Nintendo Switch owning Humans, I'm giving away a copy of Dragon's Dogma. Be the first to quote this and I'll give you a code...don't think this is a free pass to get off my kill list. You are still on there and are being moved up just for the thinking you are safe. Edit: Code is for NA...
Gif can make even a dogshit looking game like dogma 2 look incredible.
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Masterofchapter
Member
From your logic ac unity did it better
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
I'm not comparing it to modern PC games. I'm comparing its iq to 2014/2015 console games that also never got updated. The Order holds up better on a 4k tv. Give it a 4k patch and all other problems are solved.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
I was saying that more NPC is not necessary better. I’ll take less but more detailed, just like in Cyberpunk.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Here is another cyberpunk and spiderman 2 comparison. For this one, i went to the original e3 reveal spot right outside V's apartment complex. There are definitely more NPCs there than in other streets but still no where near as many, nor as varied as in spiderman 2.
What struck out the most in spiderman 2 was just how many different things people are doing. They are hanging out in groups, having chats at cafes, sitting down in parks, hipsters doing yoga by the river. I saw a crash and remembered this one medic giving a guy some concussion protocol tests, so figured id go capture that but instead ran into two cops talking about their day. then found a karen wanting to go through the crash scene arguing with another cop. there is stuff like that in cyberpunk as well, but here there is so much of it. you will hear random conversations from pedastrians that are not scripted like this. Also heard people speaking chinese and spanish.
Also had to double check my settings because i dont remember cyberpunk looking this rough but i have rt shadows, reflections and rtgi at medium and other settings at high. 4k dlss performance.
What struck out the most in spiderman 2 was just how many different things people are doing. They are hanging out in groups, having chats at cafes, sitting down in parks, hipsters doing yoga by the river. I saw a crash and remembered this one medic giving a guy some concussion protocol tests, so figured id go capture that but instead ran into two cops talking about their day. then found a karen wanting to go through the crash scene arguing with another cop. there is stuff like that in cyberpunk as well, but here there is so much of it. you will hear random conversations from pedastrians that are not scripted like this. Also heard people speaking chinese and spanish.
Also had to double check my settings because i dont remember cyberpunk looking this rough but i have rt shadows, reflections and rtgi at medium and other settings at high. 4k dlss performance.
GymWolf
Gold Member
When i tried the game on a 4k oled last year, it looked super soft, terrible to see for a dude used to pristine iq.
I think tsushima, days gone and some others have better iq than the order tbh, i don't remember being annoyed by how soft these games looked.
I don't remember what other games were out on ps4 in 2014\2015, bloodborne and u4? Still better than the order from my memory, bloodborne had a lot of problems tho.
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GooseMan69
Member
Less than a day away from December. Maybe next gen will finally actually start this month when GTA 6 is revealed. If Rockstar doesn’t blow my tits off I really don’t know what to say.
Either way, this thread gonna be popping off.
Either way, this thread gonna be popping off.
GymWolf
Gold Member
You people better lower your hopes with gta6.
If they are going all in with simulation and shit, don't expect the game to look like robocop or aw2.
Those are still 500 cheap ass hardwares, you are not gonna get sony shiny sanitized graphic from this one AND major simulations\ia\physics advancements, it's one or another.
BUT, if someone can do it thanks to infinite time development, manpower and budget, that's probably rockstar.
I still think the game is not gonna look nowhere near matrix demo (and if it does in the reveal, i expect huge downgrades in the actual release).
If they are going all in with simulation and shit, don't expect the game to look like robocop or aw2.
Those are still 500 cheap ass hardwares, you are not gonna get sony shiny sanitized graphic from this one AND major simulations\ia\physics advancements, it's one or another.
BUT, if someone can do it thanks to infinite time development, manpower and budget, that's probably rockstar.
I still think the game is not gonna look nowhere near matrix demo (and if it does in the reveal, i expect huge downgrades in the actual release).
SimTourist
Member
They remind me of Yakuza NPCs.Spider Man2,random NPCs.(npc variety)
200 cars, 100 NPCs would look great swinging around town.
SimTourist
Member
Come on bruh, GTA V looked better than Last of Us while pushing a ton more stuff, RDR2 is one of the best visually as well. GTA 6 has more budget for janitors than the entire robocop studio.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Except gta5 doesn't look better than tlou (at least not in all areas) and while rdr2 is of course one of the most beatiful game around, it's not exactly because of its raw graphic prowess, the game looks better than the sum of its parts like texture work or characters models.
Budget can only go that far when you have to develop on a shitty, underpowered hardware for 2023 (2024\2025 by the time the game release) standards.
Spidey has probably 10x times the budget of robocop but look worse in many areas because it has to make sacrifices for the open world nature, and spidey has basically zero physics or simulation to speak of, gta6 is gonna trump that game simulation wise so even less resources left for the pure graphic.
It just a matter of how much they are gonna push simulations and physics, if they sleep on their success and they just release rdr2 in a city with better graphic then i can see them getting somewhat close to matrix demo.
Happy to eat crow but keeping expectations in check is gonna make me enjoy the reveal more than people expecting matrix demo with rockstar city simulation.
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cyberpunk npc density is a design choice, if you like lots of pricks getting in your way you can fix it easy. Although comparisons with something that doesn't have dynamic time of day isn't apples to apples anyway, but 360p gifs are used to show how good and detailed something is in this thread so its on par.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Who used 360p gifs? I have captured both of my videos at 1440p 60 fps running at high settings at 4k dlss performance.
I dont care about mods adding more NPCs. The bottom line is that the base game doesnt have as many NPCs, as varied NPCs or have as many different NPC behaviors as Spiderman 2. Mods can only fix NPC density, not everything else. The videos prove this. If you want to ignore evidence staring you in the face, be my guest.
I get that Spiderman 2 is an easy game to mock because of its lack of graphics upgrade, but it wouldnt kill you guys to give it props for the things it does do right. You are all acting no different than TLOU2 fans who kept dismissing other games just a couple of weeks ago by using bizarre arguments. Similar to what you are doing now with dynamic time of day being used to dismiss spiderman 2's fantastic NPC work and traffic density.
Really dont have any idea why praising a game gets people so riled up in this thread. This isnt a lets shit on graphics fidelity thread last i checked.
geary
Member
I will add to what you said the fact that will have an online component, and great graphics and online responsiveness dont go hand in hand.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
There's a ton, I suggest to play the game more and move from area to area as every district is completely different and packed with unique crowds.
Also, NPCs in Cyberpunk can be interacted in more ways than in Spider-Man. Outside of high-fiving or maybe spooking them when you land AND some scripted little things like helping a guy get his phone out of the sewage, what is there?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
That was 10 years ago. Since then Rockstar has released one game. And spent 10 years working on GTA Online.
Things change. This year a small C tier studio like Teyon has produced the best graphics of the year. Would you say the hundreds of devs working Respawn, the RE team at Capcom, the FF16 team at Square Enix, and Insomniac are not better or bigger than the robocop studio? or what about last year's games from AAA studios like TLOU1 and GOW Ragnorak? GOW had a budget of $200 million apparently. Meant nothing. Now you could make excuses for Ragnorak and say it was a cross gen game. You could say a next gen only TLOU1 was NOT made by naughty dog for the first two years of its dev time. You could say a million other things to justify Star Wars, RE4, FF16 and Spiderman 2 looking last gen as fuck, but those same things could also be true for GTA6.
yes, RDR2 was arguably the best looking game of last gen, but your last game no longer guarantees the next one getting the same treatment. If it did, suicide squad would look way better and set a new bar like Arkham Knight did. If it did, then TLOU1 would set a new bar like TLOU2 did. GOW Ragnorak wouldnt look virtually identical to GOW 2018.
honestly, it could go either way. Maybe it looks better than the Matrix which was only made by 80 people over the course of 8 months while GTA has had 3000 people working on it since RDR2 came out in 2018 and many more since 2013 when GTA5 came out. But again, the number of people, the studio's prior history, and the years spent working on these game is no longer resulting in games looking next gen. Some AAA studios like Massive, Remedy and GG have continued to raise the bar but the majority of AAA studios havent. Rockstar could go either way.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I mostly drive around from district to district. night time day time. the NPCs are definitely not the game's strongest suit and the streets are sparsely populated. you want me to take a 1 hour video of me walking around cyberpunk? it does most things better than spiderman 2, but NPCs aint it. Also, they still move like shit. Just awful animations.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Wasn't gta online like a separate mode?
They can probably scale down stuff for the online mode.
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Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
"The Rockstar Games team is determined to once again set creative benchmarks for the series, our industry, and for all entertainment, just as the label has done with every one of their frontline releases,"
Call it PR bluff, but you don't just come out and say that shit unless you're super hella confident.
This level of confidence points to 1 of 2 things. It's either going to have the best physics, AI, NPC interactions and simulations in gaming history, or be straight up the best looking game ever. One of the 2 is a guarantee. I personally would prefer the physics, AI, NPC's, world building, etc to get the next gen treatment rather than just pure visuals. If any game is going to inspire other devs to stop being fucking lazy with that stuff then this is it.
That, plus bloomberg saying the scale had to reeled in a bit (we will get new cities and missions on a regular basis), means hopefully they are going all in on map detail vs map size.
Its going to be a monumental release
Call it PR bluff, but you don't just come out and say that shit unless you're super hella confident.
This level of confidence points to 1 of 2 things. It's either going to have the best physics, AI, NPC interactions and simulations in gaming history, or be straight up the best looking game ever. One of the 2 is a guarantee. I personally would prefer the physics, AI, NPC's, world building, etc to get the next gen treatment rather than just pure visuals. If any game is going to inspire other devs to stop being fucking lazy with that stuff then this is it.
That, plus bloomberg saying the scale had to reeled in a bit (we will get new cities and missions on a regular basis), means hopefully they are going all in on map detail vs map size.
Its going to be a monumental release
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GymWolf
Gold Member
Creative benchmark is not graphic dude.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
not purely graphics, i think it means the other stuff I mentioned
GymWolf
Gold Member
Oh ok, i thought you were directly responding to me.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
This is funny. The game looks like dog shit on the Nintendo switch, but hey it runs.
I am convinced that almost every single PS4 game can be ported down to PS360 era hardware. We talk about last gen leaps as this massive game changing generational leaps over PS360 but if witcher 3, arkham knight and other generation defining games are being ported to the switch then how ambitious and next gen were they really?
of course, the graphics have taken a massive hit and the resolution is pure trash, but the game is there. Completely playable with all features. not a single next gen only feature in these games that couldnt be ported down.
I am so fucking ready for games to start leaving PS360 era game design and tech behind. Lets do something fucking new. Physics, destruction, AI. Lets fucking go. So far, we've only gotten some cool setpieces from FF16, Spiderman 2, and Ratchet, but thats mostly SSD stuff. Ratchet runs just fine on the steamdeck. Rockstar give me destruction please.
I am convinced that almost every single PS4 game can be ported down to PS360 era hardware. We talk about last gen leaps as this massive game changing generational leaps over PS360 but if witcher 3, arkham knight and other generation defining games are being ported to the switch then how ambitious and next gen were they really?
of course, the graphics have taken a massive hit and the resolution is pure trash, but the game is there. Completely playable with all features. not a single next gen only feature in these games that couldnt be ported down.
I am so fucking ready for games to start leaving PS360 era game design and tech behind. Lets do something fucking new. Physics, destruction, AI. Lets fucking go. So far, we've only gotten some cool setpieces from FF16, Spiderman 2, and Ratchet, but thats mostly SSD stuff. Ratchet runs just fine on the steamdeck. Rockstar give me destruction please.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
my god, make a real machine again.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
We need a Gamecube 2. Fuck Switch 2.