It depends on your Pc/laptop and windows install. If it is an OEM install in is in the BIOS (UEFI firmware) which gets wiped if the CMOS battery dies. If it is a non-OEM licence it is stored in the registry.Isn't it stored in the registry? Does the CMOS battery affect a lot? I've only used it to reset BIOS passwords before
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If Playstation or Xbox cannot contact an PSN/XBL activation server or equivalent, they will be bricks in the future (highly unlikely)
- Thread starter Craig of War
- Start date
- Drama
Mr Moose
Member
*strokes imaginary beard* Interesting.
I think I used an OEM key, my motherboard is less than a year old (Ordered on 13th October 2020) so I should be fine for a long ass time.
Edit: My old Asus M5A88-M EVO Motherboard I got in 2012 might be more fun to see when that battery dies, I'm going to give that PC to my brother
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Zog
Banned
It's in response to this:
Gamers won't. People who rely on Microsoft Office likely won't go to Linux either.
sainraja
Member
Nevermind. Looks like you are right about getting the updates. I found the wrong info regarding the 180 days thing. There are some restrictions though, some of which you already mentioned.
Link
How Long Can You Use Windows 10 Without Activation?
How long can Windows 10 be used without activation? The answer is, effectively, one month until the restrictions kick in. Learn more about it!
windowsreport.com
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Fox Mulder
Member
Zog
Banned
Just keep downplaying it.
Mr Moose
Member
It's because he is a fucking idiot.
Lots of those around on both sides, he has a lot of subs for being a fuckhole though.
Entroyp
Member
I mean, he must have a lot of time to spare right?
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You can check your machines with this:*strokes imaginary beard* Interesting.
I think I used an OEM key, my motherboard is less than a year old (Ordered on 13th October 2020) so I should be fine for a long ass time.
Edit: My old Asus M5A88-M EVO Motherboard I got in 2012 might be more fun to see when that battery dies, I'm going to give that PC to my brother
It will tell you whether your license is in firmware or not. I wouldn't worry about issues like this. Activation servers are unlikely to ever go down and if they do that OS or product would be so old that it's not monitised anymore and they can remove the activation before shutting down the service.
Try getting your key though anyway. It might be useful to keep in case we have an apocalypse.
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Trimesh
Banned
Except in this case this "Colt" guy (whoever he is) is correct and the person that's "making an ass" of themselves is the person you quoted. The fundamental difference is that, in principle, an activated Xbox system will remain activated indefinitely - but an activated PS4/5 system will die once the battery runs out. Trying to say "this affects the Xbox too" is strictly true, but acts to obscure the point that it's a much more direct problem on the PS4/5 because of the finite life of the RTC battery.
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if you're OK with having an unactivated windows license and it nagging you about it. You don't legally own your OS anymore though.
They might not care to cut your use off and rather mine data nowadays in the post Android world but still. Should have said windows 7 and 8 then.
Got to admit though, this made it seem like everything is back to normal when it dies. 'Everything' doesn't work without needing authentication. Running an unlicensed copy of windows which doesn't let you set screensavers or has watermarks or whatever is another thing.
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Mr Moose
Member
The person he quoted is the original source of the PS4 tweet and is not making an ass of himself. That would be Colt doing that.
Which do you believe lasts longer? A HDD/SSD or a CMOS battery?
Most CMOS battery outlive HDD/SSD failures/corruptions.
If in some apocalyptic world activation servers end and they don't give away the keys to the kingdom the xbox issue is not only more likely to happen but would actually have no known workaround.
Trimesh
Banned
Sorry, but you are really reaching here - a lithium battery is a component with an explicit lifetime. It will at some point fail. Certainly there are failure mechanisms for both mechanical HDDs and SSDs, but trying to suggest they will inevitably all fail within a defined time scale is just nonsense.
To be more specific, if you put a PS4 and an Xbox into good storage conditions for 2 decades the Xbox will very likely still work and the PS4 will not. I really don't understand fanboys - this is just a shit engineering decision and I can see no reason for anyone to try and defend it.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
The ps4/5 won't die when the battery dies you will lose access to online contents (dlc/digital games)... But, physical media will work 100%.
If someone was to lose the hdd (data corruption is a thing) of an xbox, reset or unlink it from the account it's on (lets say you want to sell the thing)) the machine dies, it's useless-as in nothing can be done with it.
If you want to pick one side, well at least pick the side that may have some level of use, hdd die as well... Can you even replace the internal hdd on series or one consoles these days?... Not that it would make a difference if the activation server is offline.
(both are pretty serious issues, but one is worse, I don't want Sony to pat themselves on the back for this).
alabtrosMyster
Banned
Steam has an offline mode.
Red Rackham's Revenge
Member
I want to know if the bluray/UHD drive will work in such a scenario.
Not really a problem with the PS3/PS4 as far as I can tell as the hard drives are easily replaceable. I'd be interested to see if anyone's willing to risk 2 PS5s in an attempt to swap the drives and get them to work without online authentication.
This whole topic is reaching. The point is if you are reaching for a world where things stop working If you are talking about failure, about typical use you are more likely to need a new hard drive or format it before you require a button battery replacement. I've not once had to replace a battery on my PC motherboard but I've had to format or replace drives often due to corruption or HDD failure. Even on a PS4 I had to do this due to improper shutdown during a power surge.
If you were to not use the devices and put them into storage for 20 yrs sure you are less likely to have mechanical failures or corruption but this isn't typical use.
I'm just saying this issue is a non issue but the person quoted is technically right. If we are in a world where activation is no longer possible a replacement battery and manual workaround isn't so bad. What about making that statement makes him a clown?
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The SSD drives on a PS5 are soldered on the mainboard. It would be difficult.
Red Rackham's Revenge
Member
I'm sure someone will be able to do a good job with that and replacing the liquid metal. The risk is whether it will work after.
I doubt it would since the hdd needs to be initialised with the console. It would work only after a format.
It encrypts it with the local hardware keys. This stops hackers cloning the HDD and sticking it into other consoles to play copied games offline. The main HDD/SSD is tied to the machine. If the data doesn't belong to the machine it will initialise it on startup (format it).
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Trimesh
Banned
Certainly not true for the PS4. Try it. Pull the battery out and (without having connected to the network) run a disc game - it errors out with a rather non-specific error and the game won't start. Once you connect the console to the network once it works again. Admittedly, this may not be designed behavior, but it is what actually happens. Don't know about the PS5 since I haven't got one yet.
Largely because I think that giving a company a pass merely because they fucked up their security and you can bypass it is being way too kind. So you have bad design in one area, but it's effectively mitigated by bad design in another area ... and this is supposed to be a good thing?
Kilau
Member
Hold up, I was under the impression that the battery was keeping the system clock set and if the battery dies and is replaced the time has to be reauthenticated server side.
There has been so much back and forth here I possibly got the wrong idea.
Because it isn't a bad design. It's good not cheaping out design. The battery is required for the secure clock to verify licences even when completely offline. This means you can play your subscription PS+ games completely offline. It relies on this clock for offline trophies and licenses.
Notice on gamepass PC you can also play your subscription based games completely offline for up to 30 days. On xbox one gamepass you can't. On xbox one there is no battery and hence no secure time. It must always connect to the internet to have any understanding of time for licences.
Can't Play Offline While A Game Pass Subscriber
I will start out saying this is NOT an isolated incident and is widespread for every Game Pass subscriber. I looked into multiple forums and articles before posting this. So do not tell me to do basic
answers.microsoft.com
So while in some hypothetical crazy world where activation is no longer possible and we say the work around is also "bad design". Currently in the real world the battery, clock and license framework on the console allow offline play much better than not having the ability to keep time offline or the inability to verify secured timed licences or trophies offline.
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Trimesh
Banned
So selectively disable the features that rely on trusted time being available. As I said, I don't have a PS5 yet, but on the PS4 you can't even run disc-based games is that clock isn't set which certainly smells like "bad design" to me.
ethomaz
Banned
I’m not even sure what are you talking about.
Activation started with XP and non-activated system lose features and you couldn’t use the Os to fully extend.
Windows Vista was even harsher and removed even more features.
Things started to change with Windows 7 and you ask why? Well why Windows was losing marketing share so MS decided that even if non-activated it is better to have the user on your ecosystem.
MS used to have 95% of the OS market share on desktops/laptops but today it is around 75%.
That is why there is basically no restriction except a watermark if you don’t activate Windows 10.
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Red Rackham's Revenge
Member
I'd be open to a format so long as I could get it working and playing games. In a hypothetical scenario with no internet, what problems would we face? So long as I can buy junked PS5s for spare parts to repair, then I'm cool. The battery issue is a real problem in this scenario obviously. I'd be ok with no trophies or other unnecessary features so long as it functions as it's suppose to.
Another scenario to imagine is if in the future Sony moved to all digital or some kind of subscription based service. For anyone that wanted to opt out of that, would they be able to? Would they be able to keep and maintain their PS5s, or would they be encouraged to move on to the new service?
I hope this is something that will be patched out in the future. As it stands I have 2 PS3s that I plan to service to give them as long a live as possible. I'm looking at thermal paste/pads, new hard drives, and trying to find the longest lasting CR2032 I can get.
ethomaz
Banned
You don’t need.
You can just set your PS4 or PS5 for offline and everything will run fine.
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ethomaz
Banned
You can in both PS4 and PS5.
All these issues your saying are gone if you set your console to offline.
Every disc or digital game you own will run just fine.
Exception are content tied to time subscriptions like PS+.
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Trimesh
Banned
Try it. This is on a PS4 pro.
Clear the network settings and remove the battery. Leave it for 10 minutes or so to ensure the clock loss flag is set. Then put a new battery in and try and boot a disc and it fails with some CExxxxx error.
Once you connect to the network (even once) the error goes away.
ethomaz
Banned
Before boot a disc just try to disable the PS4 network to put it in offline mode.
Voila.
No more errors... you can play your disc.
PS. I mean that error is pretty old and everybody knows you can just disable network as workaround.. well maybe not Xbox fans.
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Bittermich
Banned
Xbox has an OFFLINE Mode. If you console is set as a home console you can play ALL your games while being completely offline. Forever.
MeatSafeMurderer
Member
Again, not true. You're right in that OEMs do use some data in the BIOS for activation...however you are wrong in that that data is NOT wiped when the CMOS battery is removed. That would mean it would have to be easily writeable (it's not) and defeat the entire purpose. I worked in IT for quite a while and wrote a tool to do OEM SLP activation. There's numerous little bits and bobs you need and it's a PITA to get working, even with actual OEM machines.
FranXico
Member
* provided each of said games was activated by connecting to Live
Trimesh
Banned
Look, I did the test with the internet connection completely disabled - I assure you that (at least in the case of the PS4) once you lose that clock it won't boot anything including physical discs and the only way to get it working again is to connect to the network (interestingly, you don't have to actually log into PSN, just having an active connection is enough). Once you do that, discs start working again.
I don't know what issue you're talking about that can be resolved by disabling PSN, but it clearly not the same one I am.
And, incidentally, your attempt to dismiss anyone that criticizes your chosen plastic box as an "Xbox fan" speaks volumes more about you than it does about me.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
And provided that forever for you = 1 month or did they remove the 1 per month check
?
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Wizz-Art
Member
Thanks for the concern guys, all going rabid on me like if you have some 'Gotcha' moment. As I've seen a lot of defending in this thread by the usual suspects I took a page out of their book. All I'm gonna do is defend my precious like you guys have taught me. No difference whatsoever! I hope everyone sees how it's a case of two measuring sticks and how unbelieveably hypocritical some of you are.
Now, with that out of the way...
The big difference that I've touted since the beginning of this thread is that PS doesn't own the infrastructure PSN runs on. Think a bit about that! It means that PSN is totally dependent on another company to even run. If you don't see the problem with that...
What is the reason for Microsoft to even close Azure where all of of XBOX Live and the authentication servers for your Windows-account runs on? Yes, your windows account – most of you already have – is tied with your Xbox account. So exactly, theres absolutely none, whatsoever reason to shut off one of the biggest infrastructures on the planet. Never ever... EVER, going to happen that's something I can be absolutely sure of and guarantee that's it never going to happen because everything Microsoft runs on Azure, it's the most important division the company has.
Now, with that out of the way...
The big difference that I've touted since the beginning of this thread is that PS doesn't own the infrastructure PSN runs on. Think a bit about that! It means that PSN is totally dependent on another company to even run. If you don't see the problem with that...
What is the reason for Microsoft to even close Azure where all of of XBOX Live and the authentication servers for your Windows-account runs on? Yes, your windows account – most of you already have – is tied with your Xbox account. So exactly, theres absolutely none, whatsoever reason to shut off one of the biggest infrastructures on the planet. Never ever... EVER, going to happen that's something I can be absolutely sure of and guarantee that's it never going to happen because everything Microsoft runs on Azure, it's the most important division the company has.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
Wow! Where is all the energy of the previous pages? This is so "concerning", guys! Let's discuss how shitty Microsoft is with its DRM.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
You could argue that the thread had its course, but it is clear that once a certain tweet appeared the topic that was continuously up in the first page lost a lot of posters. I wonder why?Wow! Where is all the energy of the previous pages? This is so "concerning", guys! Let's discuss how shitty Microsoft is with its DRM.
The thing is that some of those people like
Wizz-Art
and others made it a point of principle not of console. Curiously their moral outrage about console preservation dissipated once the thread revealed it was not just a PS issue, but it was just as much an XSX one (and it is debatable if it was not even worse on that platform according to those same reports that started this thread).If feels like this thread was a rabid PS fan trap and the rabid Xbox ones swooped in and were in too deep when the thread backfired as they were too eager to have an opinion and express their outrage about something that was 1.) overblown (poor understanding of it at first should have induced caution, but why when you can stick it to the Ponies right?) and 2.) apparently a PlayStation only issue.
Wizz-Art
Member
You could argue that the thread had its course, but it is clear that once a certain tweet appeared the topic that was continuously up in the first page lost a lot of posters. I wonder why?
The thing is that some of those people like
If feels like this thread was a rabid PS fan trap and the rabid Xbox ones swooped in and were in too deep when the thread backfired as they were too eager to have an opinion and express their outrage about something that was 1.) overblown (poor understanding of it at first should have induced caution, but why when you can stick it to the Ponies right?) and 2.) apparently a PlayStation only issue.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Do not worry, people know you were in this just for the lols and to dig on the other console fanboys and did not give a crap about preservation (hence why you made emotional comments about how this was the latest greatest thing Sony was letting you down on… and then went silent when the thread change and are replying with gif’s), but thanks for stating it.
Wizz-Art
Member
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
No please, continue with this and calling mocking and lolling a defence hehe… your burning rage (you yourself said it was more of an emotional stand you were taking than a logical one) towards Sony fizzled out because there was not much of a leg to stand on anymore (issue was overblown, unlikely as the auth service is the same and has been preserved for almost 15 years now, and not console exclusive which was kind of the death knell for the forum warriors posed as white knights of the latest moral outrage).
I guess this is a key difference, no XSX related C-Bomb thread nor Sony fans over blowing that to stick it to the competition, just some core rabid Xbox warriors trying to keep that topic out and focus only on PS and deliberately trying to overblow it.
I will wait for your next moral grandstanding I guess.
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