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[J_Gamer.exe]

Yes, but this game was also running great on AMD hardware as well (not to mention PS5 is also AMD). An RX5700XT delivers the performance you see the Series X delivering here while running the high preset at 4K (it dips as low as 55fps 99,8% percentile) - this is according to computerbasebase.de benchmarks. Series X is a good chunk faster than the RX5700XT... so how and why is the console performing at this level? It simply makes no sense.

do we have any benchmarks for the new AMD cards like the 6800 and 6800xt and see how they perform in comparison to the PS5?

I know Alex did some comparisons with last gen cards but I would like to see how the xsx performs relative to other RDNA 2.0 cards with higher CU counts. i think the higher CU counts on the xsx GPU without the infinity cache might be the bottleneck.

My guess for potential bottlenecks in series x is the split ram and the cu per shader array, as geordiemp mentioned a lot, having more cu is great for the teraflop count but having more per array means less cache per cu, seeing as ps5 is doing so well and part of that is probably caching, faster caches, cache scrubbers, as well as lots of other things, then less cache per cu may well be an issue.

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

So where is the PS5 SSD advantage? These aren't backwards compat titles, but full next gen versions - Do devs need to do something extra to make it count?

Looking at load times (video 13m00s) its 27.56 vs 28.34 seconds - less than 1second difference - was expecting twice as fast.

This is not a game written for the io system, its a last gen game with probably tweaks to get it on next gen systems.

It will still be utilising the cpu for things in code id imagine rather than a complete rewrite for the io.

We've seen spiderman load an open world, vibrant and great looking in a second.

That can't happen if its not capable to do so.

Next gen games will take advantage of that but so far these are last gen with a bit of a tweak to leverage whats there without complete re writes.

 

[Ritsumei2020]

So where is the PS5 SSD advantage? These aren't backwards compat titles, but full next gen versions - Do devs need to do something extra to make it count?

Looking at load times (video 13m00s) its 27.56 vs 28.34 seconds - less than 1second difference - was expecting twice as fast.

Yes exactly Sony promised us that SSD speed would be a gamechanger,

But how come Destiny 2 is slow? Clearly Sony mislead us

Bloody Sony and their false promises.

 

[Caio]

Yes exactly Sony promised us that SSD speed would be a gamechanger,

But how come Destiny 2 is slow? Clearly Sony mislead us

Bloody Sony and their false promises.

Is this supposed to be a joke right ?

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

Yes exactly Sony promised us that SSD speed would be a gamechanger,

But how come Destiny 2 is slow? Clearly Sony mislead us

Bloody Sony and their false promises.

See my post literally right above yours, we've seen games taking advantage of it and loading an open world game in a second, spiderman.

How on earth is that possible if its not game changing?

Its like a car going 0-60 in 3 seconds when the gears are done right then when others can't go as fast in it you say well the car clearly can't do 0-60 in 3 seconds then.

Erm it can, you've seen it happen, that's proof when operated correctly it can go as fast as described.

The fact we've seen it means it possible, 3rd party cross gen games are not written for the io they use the cpu on last gen consoles etc to do it all.

 

[martino]

Either that or MS was too conservative SX clocks and there are room for a firmware upclock.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

PS5 slightly better in both 60 and 120 FPS modes.

 

[GaviotaGrande]

 

[longdi]

You clearly don't seem to understand how variable frequency of PS5 works. It doesn't downclock based on the silicon temperature. For variable frequency to work, they allow a certain amount of power to the APU and then they increased the frequency until it reached the PS5's max capability of the cooling solution. In other words, the cooling solution combined with liquid metal isn't inadequate that it will somehow let the APU get overheat simply because it's running a next-gen game, no. The cooling solution is designed for the PS5 APU's specific power level and to handle/dissipate the APU's maximum heat it can generate under any workload.

Without variable frequency, the GPU frequency would have been way lower like XSX and XSS's are.


Clearly doesn't seem wrong. And it seems to be working as intended. Fast 36 CUs outperforming/performing similarly to slow 52 CUs in almost every game so far. That's a cost-effective, smart design, if you ask me.

variable frequency works and it obeys the laws of physics.

we shall see once next gen engines are hitting these consoles hard.

you can quote me on this /q

 

[Bo_Hazem]

variable frequency works and it obeys the laws of physics.

we shall see once next gen engines are hitting these consoles hard.

you can quote me on this /q

So you see XSX struggling with last gen / crossgen titles and expect it to do better when data streaming is a reality and other more demanding AI in the future is present?

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I’ve been playing it more on my ps5 then Xbox as of late but more becuase something about the hdr setting looks a bit nicer there. I dunno why I have both inputs set the same but man if the hdr setting in Destiny a pain in the ass to get to work right.

one thing that bugs me on the Ps5 when it switches to 120fps it will randomly bring up the configure your screen thing menu when I have set it a dozen times already.

Something to do with the HDR in XSX that can't do true blacks as Vincent said here:





Also PS5 on 60Hz sends 12-bit signal as standard (even 120Hz but not full chroma/RGB). Try pushing XSX manually to send 12-bit as well at 60Hz and see how it turns out.

 

[Panajev2001a]

variable frequency works and it obeys the laws of physics.

Not sure anyone contested that...

we shall see once next gen engines are hitting these consoles hard.

you can quote me on this /q

This seems like a bit of wishful thinking.

 

[Panajev2001a]

what achievement? It was already seen in modern cellphones and laptops.

Acting as if this topic were something that has never been covered in detail is an act that is getting old... c’mon...

 

[longdi]

So you see XSX struggling with last gen / crossgen titles and expect it to do better when data streaming is a reality and other more demanding AI in the future is present?

I believe so. We should be seeing the real deal of what SX is design to do.
Run next gen titles the best.

Not sure anyone contested that...


This seems like a bit of wishful thinking.

We shall see. Either MS gets eggs on their face, or not.
Series X was designed to win the power war. To be the most performant/$, the best value hardware and software(GPU/xCloud). To redeem Xbox One mistakes.

Phil team took a mis-step with the early tools war. TBF.
But we are seeing newer/patched x-gen games closing the gap, aint we?

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Acting as if this topic were something that has never been covered in detail is an act that is getting old... c’mon..

It's been 17 years and you still don't have an avatar, how about this?

Spoiler

I believe so. We should be seeing the real deal of what SX is design to do.
Run next gen titles the best.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I believe so. We should be seeing the real deal of what SX is design to do.
Run next gen titles the best.



We shall see. Either MS gets eggs on their face, or not.
Series X was designed to win the power war. To be the most performant/$, the best value in hardware and software(GPU/xCloud)
Phil team took a mis-step with the early tools war. But we seeing newer/patched x-gen games have close the gap, aint we?

Can you help yourself from reading like paid for advertising ?

It's been 17 years and you still don't have an avatar, how about this?

Spoiler

I had an avatar, i am not sure what happened to where it was hosted and now I essentially went with the P being the avatar . Will look into it .

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I had an avatar, i am not sure what happened to where it was hosted and now I essentially went with the P being the avatar . Will look into it .

It's because I usually skim through posts and read for those who add more value to the discussion, or make funny conclusions for laughs. So a unique avatar will make you easy to spot.

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

Is anyone still on the tools waiting train?

 

[longdi]

The company size does not mean he had an infinite budget to spend else they would have not designed the split bandwidth solution, sold the XSX for $399, etc... not sure what point you were making here rather than chestbeating for some reason.


Your idea or better your understanding of it sounds wrong because it is. Liquid metal, which makes it easier to transfer the heat from potential hotspots on the chip to the heat sink, allowed for more efficient and cheaper cooling of a solution always designed for high clocks.

I was just saying LM is good, but too expensive when most of the world uses regular TIM.
Better off using the regular approach (of what, the past decade) of having more cores, lower frequencies.

Besides LM helps faster transfer, but a traditional aluminium/copper heatsink (in a console space even!), is still not as efficient as liquid cooling.
We dont even know if Ps5 large heatsink block is 'cheaper' cooling or a necessity anchor to its BOM.

Physics is physics
Material costs is material costs.
Look at the size and volume of ps5 heatsink, even before the LM aids. Anyone know how 'cheaper' it is to build something irregular like that?

 

[Sanpei]

Cross posting from the next gen speculation thread.

once again, Tom and Alex are baffled by the performance drops in the XSX version. Alex literally says they dont know why Bungie would allow these drops. Like are you fucking kidding me? Bungie isnt allowing shit. The XSX simply isnt able to run the game at that framerate at all times. Imagine if Alex reviewed a GPU where the GPU isnt able to do locked native 4k 60 fps in a benchmark test and then blamed the benchmark instead of the GPU for the poor performance.

This is getting ridiculous tbh. This is like the 15th game they have reviewed which has performance problems on the xsx and while I am open to the tools conspiracy theory or excuse or whatever you want to call it, I think it's fair to say that at the moment the XSX isnt as capable as the PS5. There is no need to appear surprised or shocked or make excuses or blame developers. Very bizarre.

joke post...

"the XSX isnt as capable as the PS5. "

maybe it's because of dev kit tools, not hardware..Have you thought this ?

 

[Rea]

variable frequency works and it obeys the laws of physics.

No one's saying PS5 is breaking the laws and it doesn't. PS5 is just working in a different way. Unique kinda way.

 

[longdi]

Cross posting from the next gen speculation thread.

once again, Tom and Alex are baffled by the performance drops in the XSX version. Alex literally says they dont know why Bungie would allow these drops. Like are you fucking kidding me? Bungie isnt allowing shit. The XSX simply isnt able to run the game at that framerate at all times. Imagine if Alex reviewed a GPU where the GPU isnt able to do locked native 4k 60 fps in a benchmark test and then blamed the benchmark instead of the GPU for the poor performance.

This is getting ridiculous tbh. This is like the 15th game they have reviewed which has performance problems on the xsx and while I am open to the tools conspiracy theory or excuse or whatever you want to call it, I think it's fair to say that at the moment the XSX isnt as capable as the PS5. There is no need to appear surprised or shocked or make excuses or blame developers. Very bizarre.

Maybe Tom and Alex have insider contacts, and have been briefing them about where these consoles really stand?
Idk mate, it is a stretch to hint Tom and Alex do not know better?

 

[Riky]

Something to do with the HDR in XSX that can't do true blacks as Vincent said here:





Also PS5 on 60Hz sends 12-bit signal as standard (even 120Hz but not full chroma/RGB). Try pushing XSX manually to send 12-bit as well at 60Hz and see how it turns out.

You can see the update on the video you posted it was just Blu-ray playback and it's been patched.

Also PS5 is 36 Gbps so had to go down to 422 at 120hz, inferior.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

You can see the update on the video you posted it was just Blu-ray playback and it's been patched.

Also PS5 is 36 Gbps so had to go down to 422 at 120hz, inferior.

So the internal HDR mapping is fucked up. Anyway, enjoy your VRR.

 

[x@3f*oo_e!]

The pivoting power delivery in PS5 is The engineering achievement. It affords more for less power consumption. Expect to see it in all quality products going forward.

Microsoft worrying about anything they aren’t doing is pure PR.

Dude you know power consumption is the cube of the clock speed right? Running at ~2.2 GHz isn't energy efficient. There's a reason the PS5 has 350W rated power supply and the Series X is 315W. It generally draws less more power running the same games too...

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Dude you know power consumption is the cube of the clock speed right? Running at ~2.2 GHz isn't energy efficient. There's a reason the PS5 has 350W rated power supply and the Series X is 315W. It generally draws less power running the same games too...

Did someone slap the keyboard on your face while you're signing up with that nickname?

 

[geordiemp]

variable frequency works and it obeys the laws of physics.

we shall see once next gen engines are hitting these consoles hard.

you can quote me on this /q

Tell us about your laws of Physics and how that applies to variable fine gated clock frequencies of RDNA2. You can also reference the AMD cards that go above 2.5 GHz if you like.

I need a laugh. I guess us fellow physicists think alike - go nuts.

 

[A Most Virtuous Cat]

So where is the PS5 SSD advantage? These aren't backwards compat titles, but full next gen versions - Do devs need to do something extra to make it count?

Looking at load times (video 13m00s) its 27.56 vs 28.34 seconds - less than 1second difference - was expecting twice as fast.

My buddy, if you boot up DeS or Astro or Sackboi from the Resume activity card, you will know what PS5 can do. I firmly believe that games going forward will take better advantage of the storage solution but then there is also element of catering to the lowest common denominator which is xbox and pc in the storage department.

 

[Snake29]

So you get basically same performance, because it's resolution vs FPS, I agree that XSX version should drop resolution more (like PS5 is doing), but both companies delivered comparable HW for same price, but somewhat Cerny is genius.

'member Tempest 3D? Yeah I did not hear good thing about it. So everything with atmos is easy win for XSX.

And yeah it's 5am, I cannot sleep, so hhope you appreaciate my contribution.

Coil whine me if you salty.

How is Atmos any win if devs need to pay for it? We've seen Atmos in several games in the last couple of years on pc, but we can tell that not many games are using Atmos.

Atmos can never be a win if people need special devices or receivers for it. Tempest audio remains in constant development, and will be expanded to tv's also.

 

[longdi]

No one's saying PS5 is breaking the laws and it doesn't. PS5 is just working in a different way. Unique kinda way.

uh no.
Ps5 works in a similar-ish fashion like the 'old' nvidia optimus or amd powerxpress mobile load balancing, which i have used almost a decade(iirc) back.

It is not just how Ps5 is doing things right or special, but also what is casuing SX hiccups. I can understand now why DF seems perplexed by their results, from Richard saying Ps5 punching above its weight, to Tom and Alex latest D2 confusion.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

So you get basically same performance, because it's resolution vs FPS, I agree that XSX version should drop resolution more (like PS5 is doing), but both companies delivered comparable HW for same price, but somewhat Cerny is genius.

'member Tempest 3D? Yeah I did not hear good thing about it. So everything with atmos is easy win for XSX.

And yeah it's 5am, I cannot sleep, so hhope you appreaciate my contribution.

Coil whine me if you salty.

Man, Tempest 3D is wonderful! What's happening with you? I'm enjoying it a lot! At early stages it was sounding a bit muffled, but not after like the second system update.

 

[Gudji]

So where is the PS5 SSD advantage? These aren't backwards compat titles, but full next gen versions - Do devs need to do something extra to make it count?

Looking at load times (video 13m00s) its 27.56 vs 28.34 seconds - less than 1second difference - was expecting twice as fast.

Only in 2022 games that take full advantage of the SSD and I/O will be on the market. You'd know that if you actually read what's posted in the next-gen thread.

https://cbloomrants.blogspot.com/2020/09/how-oodle-kraken-and-oodle-texture.html?m=1

Read the article and comment section.

 

[Shmunter]

joke post...

"the XSX isnt as capable as the PS5. "

maybe it's because of dev kit tools, not hardware..Have you thought this ?

It’s both. Allow me to explain...

Apart from the hardware decompression block which is critical even to pc in the future, XsX is setup just like a pc, it carries no bespoke features over off the shelf pc parts. Even the offshoot memory setup leans into pc territory with GPU ‘optimised’ ram and system ram, despite being unified. They went out of their way to reflect the pc world (and cut costs at the same time)

The tools themselves are setup to abstract the hardware further than customary on console. Reason being again to facilitate software development for Xbox one, all the way up to high end pc’s. It’s geared for a variety of sku’s of which XsX is just one part off.

Am I embellishing? Not at all, MS themselves have openly proclaimed ‘scalability’, end of generations, etc. Corporations like this deal with long term strategy and don’t change their trajectory on a dime. It is what it is in black and white.

Sony on the other hand poured countless bespoke customisations into their hardware, and their tools are not beholden to an open platform strategy allowing for deeper integration. Not dissimilar to Apple and ios.

Happy to take feedback on any potential blind spots in the above.

 

[SupremeHoodie]

So in the future when developers and Microsoft sort all this dev kit stuff out and the Xbox performs like it should will these threads continue to be this popular? lol

 

[Gudji]

So in the future when developers and Microsoft sort all this dev kit stuff out and the Xbox performs like it should will these threads continue to be this popular? lol

It's already performing like it should.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I was just saying LM is good, but too expensive when most of the world uses regular TIM.
Better off using the regular approach (of what, the past decade) of having more cores, lower frequencies.

Higher clock frequencies have their benefit and they did not have unlimited die are available (gotta make space for Tempest 3D and the Custom I/O processor) so you have to have tradeoffs it seems they thought about from the moment the started designing the architecture. Have not heard a peep from any dev or rumors that did not state PS5 was anything but a pleasure to work with and likely they have a lot more time to spend unlocking performance out of the customisations their design has (this is true for XSX top of course).

Besides LM helps faster transfer, but a traditional aluminium/copper heatsink (in a console space even!), is still not as efficient as liquid cooling.
We dont even know if Ps5 large heatsink block is 'cheaper' cooling or a necessity anchor to its BOM.

Physics is physics
Material costs is material costs.
Look at the size and volume of ps5 heatsink, even before the LM aids. Anyone know how 'cheaper' it is to build something irregular like that?

Big copper heat sink with heatpipes instead of liquid cooling or XSX vapour chamber fit to pull out all that extra heat is a bigger portion of the cost.

Liquid Metal is more expensive than thermal paste, but it is a smaller percentage of the cost of the cooling solution (thus leading to a cheaper overall cooling setup for PS5 than otherwise). See: l

 

[Aceofspades]

So where is the PS5 SSD advantage? These aren't backwards compat titles, but full next gen versions - Do devs need to do something extra to make it count?

Looking at load times (video 13m00s) its 27.56 vs 28.34 seconds - less than 1second difference - was expecting twice as fast.

Its an online game tied to Bungie servers, what advantages are you looking for here? Sony already proved their SSD tech with Astro, Demon Souls, MM ... Etc all those can load in less than 2 seconds.

 

[x@3f*oo_e!]

Only in 2022 games that take full advantage of the SSD and I/O will be on the market. You'd know that if you actually read what's posted in the next-gen thread.

https://cbloomrants.blogspot.com/2020/09/how-oodle-kraken-and-oodle-texture.html?m=1

Read the article and comment section.

Can you quote what you are talking about - there's nothing about 2022 in that article or comments

High speed SSD NVMe makes a big difference on PC right now - there's no waiting for tools/software I don't get it.

 

[SupremeHoodie]

It's already performing like it should.

Let’s just throw math out the window then.

 

[Shmunter]

Dude you know power consumption is the cube of the clock speed right? Running at ~2.2 GHz isn't energy efficient. There's a reason the PS5 has 350W rated power supply and the Series X is 315W. It generally draws less more power running the same games too...

It’s not about power saving. It’s about busting through a power ceiling. Ability to distribute that power in real-time for best effect is the strategy

It being 350w or 1000w is not the conversation, it’s about being able to do more with a set limit.

 

[Riky]

So the internal HDR mapping is fucked up. Anyway, enjoy your VRR.

Oh I am trust me, best console experience.

 

[Gudji]

Can you quote what you are talking about - there's nothing about 2022 in that article or comments

High speed SSD NVMe makes a big difference on PC right now - there's no waiting for tools/software I don't get it.

PS5 is the only system with a hardware Kraken decoder, and the only platform with platform-wide license to Oodle Texture so that every game can use it. In theory PC SSD's will keep getting faster, but you would need several CPU cores running software Kraken to match the decompressed bandwidth of the PS5 hardware Kraken. Even then, a typical game on the PC won't be able to achieve that IO speed because of other bottlenecks; once you're going that fast lots of other things in the system software can become problems, you have to address it all through the software.

I can't comment on specific games, but the whole combination of Oodle Texture + Kraken + a well optimized loading pipeline probably won't be in a shipping game on PS5 for a while yet.

There are games rolling out Oodle Texture now on PC, such as Warframe :

The Great Ensmallening

TLDR: We’re going to free up 6.6GB of space on PC next week but we need a 6.5GB update to do it. Most platforms will see similar improvements. My memory is hazy about those early days back in 2012 when we launched our Closed Beta but I distinctly remember the entire download being small enough to...

forums.warframe.com

I've seen some press trying to compare load times of cross-platform games on the various systems. While that is tempting to think it's a scientific way to compare something equal across systems, it doesn't give a very accurate picture of what's actually happening. Cross platform games rarely have the time to carefully design their IO system to be optimal on all platforms, especially early launch titles where the pressure to get anything shipped is difficult enough. Many games load stack is CPU bound, which means you aren't really seeing the IO subsystem performance at all, and if you drive the IO system in a generic cross-platform way it probably isn't at peak performance. It's like taking a bunch of cars to a test track but giving them all bald tires in the rain, the higher performance cars won't be able to do a better lap time so you won't really see the difference in what they're capable of.

The decompressor acts as a speed multiplier depending on the compression ratio. The input speed to the decompressor is always the same, determined by the disk rate, but the output speed varies. Game content doesn't just have a single uniform compression ratio, it will be a mix of content, some of which compresses better than others, so some decompresses near the min speed, and some much faster. When we talk about the overall game speed or compression ratio, that's an average. Also the average is done on time, not speed (which is the inverse of time), so for example the average of 5 GB/s and 20 GB/s is 8.

As for the load times - basically yes, load times will be ridiculously fast in games that are designed for it, in fact we should see games in the future that have zero visible load time at all, you just jump right in to huge levels and never experience any load time.

 

[geordiemp]

uh no.
Ps5 works in a similar-ish fashion like the 'old' nvidia optimus or amd powerxpress mobile load balancing, which i have used almost a decade(iirc) back.

It is not just how Ps5 is doing things right or special, but also what is casuing SX hiccups. I can understand now why DF seems perplexed by their results, from Richard saying Ps5 punching above its weight, to Tom and Alex latest D2 confusion.

No ps5 does not, not even close. Smart shift just adds a bit of power saving to the PC solution of fine gated variable clocks that go well above 2.5 GHz on PC parts. Chuck in Liquid metal TIM and smart shift, and ps5 is a happy bunny at 2.23 Ghz.

DF is perplexed because they dont understand hardware and dont seem to read about it, they analyse game graphics.

It was sad when Richard interviewed Cerny and all Richard could ask was about sustained clocks and TF, and just did not get it. I doubt Cerny would bother himself again.

At least Richard now just talks about console horse power in last few videos, he is coming round slowly.

If you want to know why XSX has hiccups, its because 14 CU in a shader array are sharing similar in array resources and all the stuff before and after shader arrays that 10 CU in a ps5 share.

If more things are shared per CU that is an issue for gaming work loads, but not for server parts and CDNA....Go check out CDNA designs, it will look awfully familiar.

It XSX had 6 shader arrays, 60 CU with 4 disabled, so 54 CU and up to 10 CU per array, it would be a beast. However, it would be a much bigger die as more arrays, more cache, more data share, more front and back end. Chuck in variable frequencies and those 54 CU would be same concept as a 6800 and would smoke a ps5 or XSX with its eyes shut.

MS kept 4 arrays because server most likely, I guess someone needs to ask them why they did the hardware the way they did..

 

[longdi]

Higher clock frequencies have their benefit and they did not have unlimited die are available (gotta make space for Tempest 3D and the Custom I/O processor) so you have to have tradeoffs it seems they thought about from the moment the started designing the architecture. Have not heard a peep from any dev or rumors that did not state PS5 was anything but a pleasure to work with and likely they have a lot more time to spend unlocking performance out of the customisations their design has (this is true for XSX top of course).


Big copper heat sink with heatpipes instead of liquid cooling or XSX vapour chamber fit to pull out all that extra heat is a bigger portion of the cost.

Liquid Metal is more expensive than thermal paste, but it is a smaller percentage of the cost of the cooling solution (thus leading to a cheaper overall cooling setup for PS5 than otherwise). See: l

I seen that japan interview before, and i thought SIE came off quite defensive when they singled out vapor chamber.
But no where does it hints Ps5 cooling and even PSU BOM, are 'cheaper' with the use of LM.
As in, 'cheaper' compared to what?

Unless we have a materials engineer here, i see ps5 has much bigger volume, much more metals used in that heatsink block, custom fan, i dont believe its exterior materials is lower than that SX.
Meaning Ps5 seems to dedict more of its non-processing BOM to support the high frequencies.

As for Ps5 ease of development, thats what i have been preaching here. Cerny wanted ps5 games to be up and running in a month IIRC, twice as fast as Ps4. So you see how matured Sony tools are.

 

[Gudji]

Let’s just throw math out the window then.

Many of that math is on PS5 side.

 

[SupremeHoodie]

Many of that math is on PS5 side.

Most of the math isn’t.

 

[Gudji]

Most of the math isn’t.

If you say so.

 

[Bittermich]

well, obviously, since PS5 runs at a lower res and dips more, there might be a slightly more stable FPS. But it’s not like anyone would notice the difference anyway.

Wonder how the reaction would be if it would be the other way around. I guess then the resolution would be way more important suddenly.

 

[geordiemp]

Higher clock frequencies have their benefit and they did not have unlimited die are available (gotta make space for Tempest 3D and the Custom I/O processor) so you have to have tradeoffs it seems they thought about from the moment the started designing the architecture. Have not heard a peep from any dev or rumors that did not state PS5 was anything but a pleasure to work with and likely they have a lot more time to spend unlocking performance out of the customisations their design has (this is true for XSX top of course).


Big copper heat sink with heatpipes instead of liquid cooling or XSX vapour chamber fit to pull out all that extra heat is a bigger portion of the cost.

Liquid Metal is more expensive than thermal paste, but it is a smaller percentage of the cost of the cooling solution (thus leading to a cheaper overall cooling setup for PS5 than otherwise). See: l

I think the biggest benefit of the liquid metal TIM will be its performance over time. Everybody who has a console knows it gets noisier and worse over time, Thermal paste becomes less efficient and dust builds up.

As long as the lquid metal is contained, it will thermal cycle better over time.

 

[longdi]

No ps5 does not, not even close. Smart shift just adds a bit of power saving to the PC solution of fine gated variable clocks that go well above 2.5 GHz on PC parts. Chuck in Liquid metal TIM and smart shift, and ps5 is a happy bunny at 2.23 Ghz.

DF is perplexed because they dont understand hardware and dont seem to read about it, they analyse game graphics.

It was sad when Richard interviewed Cerny and all Richard could ask was about sustained clocks and TF, and just did not get it. I doubt Cerny would bother himself again.

At least Richard now just talks about console horse power in last few videos, he is coming round slowly.

If you want to know why XSX has hiccups, its because 14 CU in a shader array are sharing similar in array resources and all the stuff before and after shader arrays that 10 CU in a ps5 share.

If more things are shared per CU that is an issue for gaming work loads, but not for server parts and CDNA....Go check out CDNA designs, it will look awfully familiar.

It XSX had 6 shader arrays, 60 CU with 4 disabled, so 54 CU and up to 10 CU per array, it would be a beast. However, it would be a much bigger die as more arrays, more cache, more data share, more front and back end. Chuck in variable frequencies and those 54 CU would be same concept as a 6800 and would smoke a ps5 or XSX with its eyes shut.

MS kept 4 arrays because server most likely, I guess someone needs to ask them why they did the hardware the way they did..

Sure, you want to talk to Phil and get a job to design SX Pro? I bet there is a great opening now if what you said is right.